Many lads have stock out?

emaherx · 03-03-2019 8:38pm

Grueller wrote: »

Not any more. Had 25 cows and their Autumn calves out but brought them in an hour ago. They are fair happy to come in.

Same here, they were standing bawling at the gate this evening so I just let them in. Hopefully they won't be in long.

Still have some heifers out though.

cacs · 13-03-2019 11:45pm

wrangler wrote: »

Yea

Has anyone kept cattle out. I have small bunch out still. They are doing well but ground conditions are rubbish. Starting to damage but I am doing my best and hold my nerve and not rehouse

Bass Reeves · 14-03-2019 12:20am

Rehoused last Saturday morning. Had 27 out over 50% weight wise but not number wise. Utilisation had gone very poor and going through grass to fast. They will get in until the middle of next week

BENDYBINN · 14-03-2019 9:55am

All mine out and not coming back!
I’m like the brits and brexit.....I said I’m going to eat my foot and I’m damn well going to!!!

coolshannagh28 · 14-03-2019 10:10am

20 out , starting to roam a bit but they are thriving well and as the forecast improves I think I can hold my nerve.

Bullocks · 14-03-2019 10:15am

I've 6 calved heifers out and 2 cows that calved aswell. They are surprisingly content. Getting a small pinch of nuts once a day just when I'm looking at them and I'd say they would be roaring more for them if they were in on silage

wrangler · 14-03-2019 11:06am

We've had more rain already now in March than we've had in any march since 2009

endainoz · 14-03-2019 11:37am

wrangler wrote:

We've had more rain already now in March than we've had in any march since 2009

Ah yeah, but on the back of an extremely mild winter, I don't think it's as noticable. Ground conditions going into March were still very good.

Reggie. · 14-03-2019 12:13pm

Ground conditions here are great. If weather turns as good next week as they say then out they go

endainoz · 14-03-2019 12:40pm

Reggie. wrote:

Ground conditions here are great. If weather turns as good next week as they say then out they go

Fingers crossed!

jimmy G M · 14-03-2019 8:48pm

Bulk of weanlings back in since that wet saturday 12 days ago. Still have 10 out on 3 acre paddocks but I have moved them 2 times in that time rather than bog the fields too much. Not doing any damage worth talking about to be fair.

11 cows and their calves out also, split over 2x8 acre fields with good shelter. Doing fine also. They are being supplemented with hay.

There's a poor forecast for Saturday but next week might be a bit dryer. If so lighter stock will be going back out.

jimmy G M · 14-03-2019 8:48pm

Double post.

I says · 16-03-2019 8:35am

Although grass is getting tight in this sh1te weather I’m not worried I’m not buying anymore cattle for this grazing season and I doubt I’ll bother me backside filling the shed next winter.

kollegeknight · 16-03-2019 9:25am

Nothing out bar a cull cow. I’ll put her back in tomorrow. Land is saturated. Outdoor farming really and truly is a 5 month event here.

Bass Reeves · 16-03-2019 9:36am

Went back in last Saturday morning. I had 27 cattle out. Should have gone out earlier and came back in earlier. Looking at the weather forecast I expect to be back out next Wednesday or Thursday. I had 27 out I will get out a bunch of lighter heifers as well to the bit around the house. Looking at the weather forecast. Grass will start growing again next week. Will graze off the silage paddocks first. Target is to have them grazed and closed by April 1st.

Bullocks · 16-03-2019 9:46am

Bullocks wrote: »

I've 6 calved heifers out and 2 cows that calved aswell. They are surprisingly content. Getting a small pinch of nuts once a day just when I'm looking at them and I'd say they would be roaring more for them if they were in on silage

I said I'd throw them a bale of hay this morning with all the rain , one of them was pulling the bale off me when I was carrying it in

. Hopefully it will dry upafter lunch or they will be heading back in

TooOldBoots · 16-03-2019 11:00am

Heavy rain and strong winds today. Weather is promised wet and windy for the rest of this week. Its looking like its gonna be a late spring in many places now.
I wouldn't like to be overstocked at this stage so early in the year

Bass Reeves · 16-03-2019 1:32pm

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Heavy rain and strong winds today. Weather is promised wet and windy for the rest of this week. Its looking like its gonna be a late spring in many places now.
I wouldn't like to be overstocked at this stage so early in the year

Just went through the Forecast there for most of the country on the app that I use it is showing it dry everywhere next week except the NW and that is by no means wet either.

Say my name · 16-03-2019 3:40pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Just went through the Forecast there for most of the country on the app that I use it is showing it dry everywhere next week except the NW and that is by no means wet either.

It's even looking "summery" looking in the foreseeable at this moment. Which is weird for March. 17 degrees in Feb was weird too I suppose.

All stock in here today.

The calf prices could be quickly forgotten by the drought again this year?

jimmy G M · 16-03-2019 3:46pm

Some cows and calfs here just moved into Glas WBC, they are doing grand and "Happy out".. I have to admit I didn't have a great crop of oats for the WBC .....ðŸ™‚

Edit... was trying to attach a couple of pics but sized too big... I'll reduce and attach tonight

charolais0153 · 16-03-2019 4:32pm

Say my name wrote: »

It's even looking "summery" looking in the foreseeable at this moment. Which is weird for March. 17 degrees in Feb was weird too I suppose.

All stock in here today.

The calf prices could be quickly forgotten by the drought again this year?

Hopefully

White Clover · 16-03-2019 4:46pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

Hopefully

I wouldn't call last summer a drought! Twas a great summer around here, we've had too many where there has been rain every week.

Say my name · 16-03-2019 5:02pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

Hopefully

Well it's not exactly been a "normal" run of Irish weather for the past 18 months.
So you never know..
Ex hurricanes, snow blizzards, drought, exceptional mild winter...and now?

charolais0153 · 16-03-2019 6:39pm

White Clover wrote: »

I wouldn't call last summer a drought! Twas a great summer around here, we've had too many where there has been rain every week.

A dry summer wouldn't go astray. Cant remember the last time i seen the sun

Muckit · 16-03-2019 6:52pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Just went through the Forecast there for most of the country on the app that I use it is showing it dry everywhere next week except the NW and that is by no means wet either.

Every river has burst it's bankss around here and turloughs up good and high. Feb and March got a bit mixed up!! Even if we get dry weather for next few weeks will take a while to go down

emaherx · 16-03-2019 7:52pm

White Clover wrote: »

I wouldn't call last summer a drought! Twas a great summer around here, we've had too many where there has been rain every week.

Certainly was a drought here, some land only recovering now.

_Brian · 16-03-2019 8:03pm

Had to move stock to drier ground. Serious flooding.

jimmy G M · 16-03-2019 11:42pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

Some cows and calfs here just moved into Glas WBC, they are doing grand and "Happy out".. I have to admit I didn't have a great crop of oats for the WBC .....ðŸ™‚

Edit... was trying to attach a couple of pics but sized too big... I'll reduce and attach tonight

Here's a couple of pics from earlier

patsy_mccabe · 17-03-2019 12:09am

jimmy G M wrote: »

Here's a couple of pics from earlier

That black is a nice cow. Is she 3/4 bred?

jimmy G M · 17-03-2019 12:36pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

That black is a nice cow. Is she 3/4 bred?

Yeah, she's a LM out of a LM cow. There mus be a bit of B Fr or Aa in there some where as well.

Most of our cows would be 3/4 continental mainly a mix of char SIM and Lim. The odd Her or Aa criss sneaks in as well, like that yoke in the background... she was cheap at the mart a few weeks ago... thers a reason she was cheap

Albert Johnson · 17-03-2019 12:53pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

Yeah, she's a LM out of a LM cow. There mus be a bit of B Fr or Aa in there some where as well.

Most of our cows would be 3/4 continental mainly a mix of char SIM and Lim. The odd Her or Aa criss sneaks in as well, like that yoke in the background... she was cheap at the mart a few weeks ago... thers a reason she was cheap

Is the yoke in reference to the Whitehead or the other black cow? A photo isn't a great reference point to judge stock but they all look reasonable enough imo.

Bass Reeves · 17-03-2019 1:48pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

Yeah, she's a LM out of a LM cow. There mus be a bit of B Fr or Aa in there some where as well.

Most of our cows would be 3/4 continental mainly a mix of char SIM and Lim. The odd Her or Aa criss sneaks in as well, like that yoke in the background... she was cheap at the mart a few weeks ago... thers a reason she was cheap

What did she cost was the calf at foot. In Castleisland the week before last she would only have made 900 euro with calf at foot at most.

Who2 · 17-03-2019 4:27pm

Outfits seem to be on the rise in price around me. Seen a few break the 2k mark but general run at the moment seems to be 1500 for anything reasonable.

TooOldBoots · 18-03-2019 12:34pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Just went through the Forecast there for most of the country on the app that I use it is showing it dry everywhere next week except the NW and that is by no means wet either.

I think you might want to delete that weather app

Reggie. · 18-03-2019 1:19pm

TooOldBoots wrote: »

I think you might want to delete that weather app

Not showing any rain in midlands for the week either

endainoz · 18-03-2019 5:19pm

Met eireann seem to he more accurate for me that yr these days band the week coming looks dry enough, have 6 cows and calves to go out, maybe Wednesday or Thursday

Birdnuts · 18-03-2019 10:08pm

All stock now back in(including ewes that will start lambing the next few weeks). Its been a helluva start to March with rainfall totals already exceeding what we had over the entire winter proper!!:(

jimmy G M · 18-03-2019 11:43pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What did she cost was the calf at foot. In Castleisland the week before last she would only have made 900 euro with calf at foot at most.

€1,080 in Ballinasloe aprox 4 weeks ago... 7 y/o in calf to a great Charolais bull.... every day is a school day.... heifer calf.....

Albert Johnson · 19-03-2019 10:25am

jimmy G M wrote: »

€1,080 in Ballinasloe aprox 4 weeks ago... 7 y/o in calf to a great Charolais bull.... every day is a school day.... heifer calf.....

I wouldn't have considered her that bad of value tbh unless I'm missing something crucial. They look to be big cows and an early march calf should be good and strong for the weanling sales. If the cow trade is anyway middling come the backend she should make the most of it back as a cull imo. I seen a 2012 big red whitehead cow sold a fortnight ago well softened to calve at €1060, she was part of a dispersal sale and I was very tempted but short of space and finances atm.

jimmy G M · 19-03-2019 8:13pm

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I wouldn't have considered her that bad of value tbh unless I'm missing something crucial. They look to be big cows and an early march calf should be good and strong for the weanling sales. If the cow trade is anyway middling come the backend she should make the most of it back as a cull imo. I seen a 2012 big red whitehead cow sold a fortnight ago well softened to calve at €1060, she was part of a dispersal sale and I was very tempted but short of space and finances atm.

Yeah, look we often did dafter things... she was worth a gamble if she had a good calf.....as it turned out she had a middling yoke... thems the breaks.... good young cows were going €1500 to €1700 the same day.

Albert Johnson · 19-03-2019 8:26pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

Yeah, look we often did dafter things... she was worth a gamble if she had a good calf.....as it turned out she had a middling yoke... thems the breaks.... good young cows were going €1500 to €1700 the same day.

I agree that the calf quality can make or break the whole endeavour, will you chance bulling her again? I often thought that a lot of those in-between type springers are probably caught by a weanling or other bull unknown and that's what causes such variations in calf quality. It's all a gamble with those sort of stock. A man locally who would be a real glutton for punishment regarding bad springers and the like summed it up for me one night at the mart. He said that his wife reckoned that "if he went to a mart 7 nights a week that he'd come home with some dodge from every one of them", it's a disease imo and the only cure is terminal.

Bass Reeves · 19-03-2019 8:32pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

€1,080 in Ballinasloe aprox 4 weeks ago... 7 y/o in calf to a great Charolais bull.... every day is a school day.... heifer calf.....

For an incalf 7 year old WH cow it was enough. I saw nice blackwhite heifers only making 800 in Castleisland two weeks ago. However it was the lads around the ring buying them.. But you would want to be buying them for taht. They were incalf to LM and AA bulls.

The way I look at that cow you bought taking the risk factor of something hapening to her or to the calf and having a heifer as opposed to a bull the risk factor give the calf an average value of 450-500 euro next Autumn. That means you to break even next autumn she has to be worth 7-800 euro. IMO she had to be bought for sub 800 euro to leave a margin

Albert Johnson · 19-03-2019 9:56pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

For an incalf 7 year old WH cow it was enough. I saw nice blackwhite heifers only making 800 in Castleisland two weeks ago. However it was the lads around the ring buying them.. But you would want to be buying them for taht. They were incalf to LM and AA bulls.

The way I look at that cow you bought taking the risk factor of something hapening to her or to the calf and having a heifer as opposed to a bull the risk factor give the calf an average value of 450-500 euro next Autumn. That means you to break even next autumn she has to be worth 7-800 euro. IMO she had to be bought for sub 800 euro to leave a margin

As usual Bass you've put a financial handle on the situation and it definitely is cause for thought. I have however a few points I'd like to add regarding the above advice. A black white head heifer is going to usually produce a black or mousey colored calf particularly off a LM bull, if carrying the weanling through to finish then this will make little difference. However if you're intending to sell as a weanling or store such a colouring will usually mean €100-€150 less come sale time over a similar quality red LM beast. A red white head cow will usually produce brighter coloured offspring and often contain more suckler breeding than there darker dairy bred comrades.

Heifers such as the black white heads mentioned above are often smaller, wiry dairy bred types and will be of little value as culls in the backend if they fail to be retained for further breeding. The above red white head cow seems to be a bigger frame and should therefore be worth more to cull in the backend. I didn't see the heifers in question in Castleisland but assume they would have originated from the milking cows opposed to sucklers.

If we take the red white head cow @ €1080 and target a sale date of 15/11/19 for both her weanling heifer and herself as a cull there is approximately 241 days from now till then. We'll round this to 260 days since date of purchase, a cost of €1.50 a day for the team means a cost of €390 until sale. The team is therefore costing €1470 by sale day, if the calf gains 0.7kg a day for the next 241 days it's 170kg + 40kg birth weight so 210kg at sale @ €2.40 a kg means a sale price of €505. If the cow weighs 700 kg at the same date @ €1.50 a kg means a sale price of €1050. This gives a combined sale price of €1555 minus costs of €1470 leaving €85 of a margin

Taking the black white head heifer @ €800 and the same target sale date and costs of €390 this team is costing €1190 at sale day. Again if the calf gains 0.7kg a day for the next 241 days it's 170kg + 30kg birth weight so 200kg at sale @ €2.20 a kg means a sale price of €440. If the cow heifer weighs 550kg at the same date @ €1.50 a kg means a sale price of €825. This gives a combined sale price of €1265 minus costs of €1190 leaving €75 of a margin.

The above are very rough costings and exclude commission, haulage, dosing, mortality etc which will be relevant to both scenarios. I feel that overall the figures are representative of typical returns and are realistic. It's gone a bit long winded but sums up the small margins involved in both systems.

Bass Reeves · 20-03-2019 12:52am

Albert Johnson wrote: »

As usual Bass you've put a financial handle on the situation and it definitely is cause for thought. I have however a few points I'd like to add regarding the above advice. A black white head heifer is going to usually produce a black or mousey colored calf particularly off a LM bull, if carrying the weanling through to finish then this will make little difference. However if you're intending to sell as a weanling or store such a colouring will usually mean €100-€150 less come sale time over a similar quality red LM beast. A red white head cow will usually produce brighter coloured offspring and often contain more suckler breeding than there darker dairy bred comrades.

Heifers such as the black white heads mentioned above are often smaller, wiry dairy bred types and will be of little value as culls in the backend if they fail to be retained for further breeding. The above red white head cow seems to be a bigger frame and should therefore be worth more to cull in the backend. I didn't see the heifers in question in Castleisland but assume they would have originated from the milking cows opposed to sucklers.

If we take the red white head cow @ €1080 and target a sale date of 15/11/19 for both her weanling heifer and herself as a cull there is approximately 241 days from now till then. We'll round this to 260 days since date of purchase, a cost of €1.50 a day for the team means a cost of €390 until sale. The team is therefore costing €1470 by sale day, if the calf gains 0.7kg a day for the next 241 days it's 170kg + 40kg birth weight so 210kg at sale @ €2.40 a kg means a sale price of €505. If the cow weighs 700 kg at the same date @ €1.50 a kg means a sale price of €1050. This gives a combined sale price of €1555 minus costs of €1470 leaving €85 of a margin

Taking the black white head heifer @ €800 and the same target sale date and costs of €390 this team is costing €1190 at sale day. Again if the calf gains 0.7kg a day for the next 241 days it's 170kg + 30kg birth weight so 200kg at sale @ €2.20 a kg means a sale price of €440. If the cow heifer weighs 550kg at the same date @ €1.50 a kg means a sale price of €825. This gives a combined sale price of €1265 minus costs of €1190 leaving €75 of a margin.

The above are very rough costings and exclude commission, haulage, dosing, mortality etc which will be relevant to both scenarios. I feel that overall the figures are representative of typical returns and are realistic. It's gone a bit long winded but sums up the small margins involved in both systems.

I doubt if the red cow will weight 700 in the autumn. While she seemed a long leanish cow I expect that she would be nearer 600 than 700 kgs. I think most lads buying sucklers think every cow they buy will produce a live bull calf. Most fail to allow for heifer or a dead calf or a dead cow.

IMO if you were buying them your best bet( and i imagine most lads arounfd the ring do it) is to take the calf away at 6-8 weeks and sell it in the mart at that stage. Then fatten the cow. The calves often make 400+ at that age and you leave the cow off to grass and fatten before winter.

Albert Johnson · 20-03-2019 1:16am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I doubt if the red cow will weight 700 in the autumn. While she seemed a long leanish cow I expect that she would be nearer 600 than 700 kgs. I think most lads buying sucklers think every cow they buy will produce a live bull calf. Most fail to allow for heifer or a dead calf or a dead cow.

IMO if you were buying them your best bet( and i imagine most lads arounfd the ring do it) is to take the calf away at 6-8 weeks and sell it in the mart at that stage. Then fatten the cow. The calves often make 400+ at that age and you leave the cow off to grass and fatten before winter.

Perhaps I was a bit optimistic with 700kg but I believe she'll weight the most of it come the backend. It doesn't take much of a cow to weight 600kg, if there coming off a good place and the weather is reasonable I find cows that age usually weight like lead coming into the winter.

There's lots of lads splitting teams like that, as you stated everything is gone off grass with little meal. It's the same with a lot of those average springers, calve them down and flog the calf inside a few weeks before beefing the cow. I often thought lads on marginal ground were better off at something similar, the cows would be easier got back incalf if dried off at that time and would be easier ran over the backend and into the winter. An average calf would often make nearly as much as a runner compared to keeping through until the traditional weanling sales.

If I had access to a run of rough grazing for the cows over winter it's a system I'd definitely consider. Calve the cows down in May with the grass and sell the calves in August. The cows could be bulled again and throw out on the grazing for the winter making use of there built up fat reserves before calving and the accompanying spring grass.

jimmy G M · 21-03-2019 8:27pm

Serious analysis there Albert and Bass.... dunno what the outcome will be, but if calf does not grow into 300kg and €700 by October then Christmas will be bleakðŸ˜. Might sell the two on the mart in next 3 weeks either....

Anyway back on topic.... 20 weanlings back out this afternoon. A bit of rain tomorrow morning but then looking pretty good out to 10 days so I reckon on turning the majority apart from cows yet to calf out over the weekend...

Dickie10 · 21-03-2019 11:41pm

was down the fields today first time in 3 weeks since i spread urea unreal how it drove grass , ill chance putting 10 heifers out saturday, see how quick there going through it before snakin out a few more

Dozer1 · 23-03-2019 9:01pm

Put out most of the stock today smashing day hope theye don't see inside again. Lots of grass around

Muckit · 23-03-2019 9:06pm

Chanced a few light heifers out today. Tis great the running blind and the tearing through fences as if they not there, real sign of spring!!

It will be a fortnight at least before rest go out.

CHOPS01 · 24-03-2019 7:42pm

Have 11 Hex bullocks 2yr olds heading out to grass in the next 10 days or so aiming to kill in July/Aug. They have been on good silage and a bag of 16% nut since Dec 12th. Someone mentioned last year think it might have been Bass about taking stock off ration before turn out to have cattle take maximum yield from grass straight away. Is this the right thing to do ?

Many lads have stock out?

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