Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

eeeee · 16-12-2020 1:01pm

That's awesome. I have never seen as many women out on bikes a this year. The Cycling Ireland Bike Like Me free zoom training sessions had over 800 women signed up to the last bunch of it. So so so great to see.
Number have been growing over the last few years though. I was in a race of 62 women on the road in 2018, that's a field that was inconceivable even 4 years ago.
Numbers of women and young women are rising in each discipline I think too (well I see more women on track and MTB anyway).

Dr_Colossus · 16-12-2020 1:30pm

eeeee wrote: »

I get shouted at all the time on the bike during the summer. It was worse when I was younger and cycled in normal clothes more, it was daily. Now in Lycra it's weekly in 'season'.

Example. During the 5k lockdown, I was doing my 5k route, came up to the Goat pub. I pedalled out in front of traffic as usual. Lights go green, traffic behind me doesn't pass me. I don't use the cycle lane after it, I thought maybe they were hanging back, even though there's lots of room to drive beside me (as usually happens). Bit weird but I don't pass any heed.
Then a small pick up lorry rolls up beside me, 2 men in it. Lanscaping sign on it. They're filming me, guy out the passenger window, talking about my ass, what he wanted to do me, how he wanted to do it to me. He driving right beside me, then slightly in front, filming all the while, talking the same shyte at me.
I was gonna whip out my phone and start recording them, but then I was afraid if they decided to come after me they'd definitely get me and if I turn off the main road there will be less people around to help me.
Traffic is beeping behind them. There are another set of lights up ahead, the traffic behind them forces them to drive on. They do, still filming me, I hang back. Lights go red up ahead, I hang back and hide behind a car, swearing like a sailor. Lights go green, I cycle on, and it starts again, talking about my ass, the same craic, filming me, driving slowly beside/in front of me, telling me they're gonna put it up on the internet. I start telling them to fcuk off and more, hang back. Another set of lights ahead (there are 2 close to each other after the Goat). Red. Fcuk. They speed up and break the lights.

That's just one example. Cars and vans routinely shout about parts of my body, what they want to do to me, and how 'in season', more often when I'm in normal clothes. (I was in cycling gear and and a buff in the above example).
It's really, really fcuking shytty. And very threatening. I'm a very confident person, and an experienced cyclist, used to it. If you were just starting out it can be super threatening and off putting. I feel really sorry for schoolkids out and about, given what I got as a younger woman they must get awful shyte from the creepy bastards.
But according to some we don't need feminism anymore :rolleyes:

ETA: Don't get me started on the shoaling!

Jesus, that's shocking, if we had proper law enforcement reporting them would be great and they would be punished appropriately. It reminds me a bit of this

Tombo2001 · 16-12-2020 2:22pm

Well my ten year old girl is - (or has asked for, and early indicators are good ) - getting a really nice mountain bike from Santa, light frame, hydraulic brakes.

Looking forward to cycling around the Phoenix Park with her on the trails.

Nidot · 16-12-2020 3:28pm

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Jesus, that's shocking, if we had proper law enforcement reporting them would be great and they would be punished appropriately. It reminds me a bit of this

Thats absolutely brilliant. Fair play to her.

magicbastarder · 16-12-2020 3:43pm

i have a vague memory (maybe it was just someone else speculating as to this) that that was a setup.

MojoMaker · 16-12-2020 3:53pm

That's my memory too.

What harm I guess, if it makes one person think twice.

CramCycle · 16-12-2020 4:07pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have a vague memory (maybe it was just someone else speculating as to this) that that was a setup.

It was, an advertising company making a viral video to highlight that they could do it. This doesn't change the fact that this behaviour is incredibly common. I seen similar from Dublin Council workers giving out to a mother from their van window a few years ago, incredibly intimidating and abusive. I regret to this day not pressing further and going into the council with the video and reg. As eeeee and several other posters have experienced first hand, it is just not unusual. I was talking about it to a co worker after a meeting where such behaviour was being talked about. She was telling me that she makes a mental note every time she walks into an area where she is isolated and there are other men there, she takes a mental note of them, depending on their actions has her phone ready, and orientates herself with an escape route. She said she has acted like this for 40 years because of repeatedly experiencing how some men behave. My wife does the same when she goes out for a walk, certain areas she won't go at certain times, other women letting her know that parts of the walk have a weirdo hanging around. My daughter now sends whatsapp messages as she walks the dogs, and will often ring, not because of any want to talk to any of us but its a layer of security when someone's walking/running pace suddenly changes upon approach.

Thelonious Monk · 16-12-2020 7:28pm

Lol, I was watching it thinking surely there can't be van men that bad out there, your number, your period, was like misogyny bingo!

eeeee · 16-12-2020 9:57pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Lol, I was watching it thinking surely there can't be van men that bad out there, your number, your period, was like misogyny bingo!

They're out there :mad:

Seth Brundle · 17-12-2020 10:24am

What a muppet!

https://twitter.com/AnneCronin5/status/1339494251651092480

Duckjob · 17-12-2020 10:34am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What a muppet!

https://twitter.com/AnneCronin5/status/1339494251651092480

Car culture never ceases to fascinate me.

Spending hours hemmed in on any sides by throngs of other cars, most of which are belching out disgusting fumes - NO problem!

A small amount of bollards (that coincidentally just happen to facilitate people cycling) - I FEEL CLAUSTROPHOBIC!!!! "

It's like you are caged!

The poor little pets :P

Seth Brundle · 17-12-2020 10:36am

The Irish Times continues with it's bile...

Why is Dublin City Council so determined to ruin Sandymount?
A much better alternative to the cycleway on Strand Road is hiding in plain sight

tomasrojo · 17-12-2020 10:39am

Parked cars are one of the most visually intrusive, unattractive arrangements of matter you can find in everyday life (quite apart from their economic, social and environmental impact), but you'd be regarded as terrible elitist if you went to the mass media with an aesthetic objection to them.

tomasrojo · 17-12-2020 10:40am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The Irish Times continues with it's bile...

Why is Dublin City Council so determined to ruin Sandymount?
A much better alternative to the cycleway on Strand Road is hiding in plain sight

If the Examiner was running War and Peace-length letters and now opinion pieces on a stretch of road in Cork, it would be just as ridiculous as this.

CramCycle · 17-12-2020 10:46am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The Irish Times continues with it's bile...

Why is Dublin City Council so determined to ruin Sandymount?
A much better alternative to the cycleway on Strand Road is hiding in plain sight

Person with no engineering background and no knowledge of the sea or flooding, tells everyone of simple solution to potential future flooding problems. Dear lord, its like he wants to be made fun of on twitter but I imagine only for your link, no one would have even noticed, like a tree falling in the forest with no one around.

17-12-2020 11:02am

When did the Irish Times bring back their comment section, thought that went the way of the dodo a few years ago. Or

Duckjob · 17-12-2020 11:02am

CramCycle wrote: »

Person with no engineering background and no knowledge of the sea or flooding, tells everyone of simple solution to potential future flooding problems. Dear lord, its like he wants to be made fun of on twitter but I imagine only for your link, no one would have even noticed, like a tree falling in the forest with no one around.

Did you miss it ? He explained that very clearly -

We should always take the subjective pub table opinings of local residents with somewhat vested interests over the objective conclusions of qualified engineers :pac:

plodder · 17-12-2020 11:05am

So, Strand Rd is part of the road to Northern Ireland (need to get the North South angle in somewhere). And there are rivers in the world that don't observe the contours of the ground. Does that mean they flow up hill? Amazing what you learn every day.

It's one person's opinion I suppose, but it says something that such a poorly thought out screed can get in to the paper like that. Though maybe that is the cunning plan.

Paddigol · 17-12-2020 11:05am

I'm new to the discussion, but just curious as to why his opposition to making the stretch of road one-way to cars so that a cycle lane can be built is evidence of IT bile? And how turning a car lane into a bike lane benefits flood protection?

To be clear - I haven't been keeping up to date on any of the Sandymount discussions because I never go near the place, so I'm not coming at this from any angle (other than blissful ignorance!).

CramCycle · 17-12-2020 11:14am

Paddigol wrote: »

I'm new to the discussion, but just curious as to why his opposition to making the stretch of road one-way to cars so that a cycle lane can be built is evidence of IT bile?

Because most residents are in favour of it according to surveys, so its heavily biased and they get around reporting the truth by making it an opinion piece. Also heavily biased because the writer is annoyed that he now has to drive a little bit further, although if he done some research, he would find that in a short period of time, it will probably end up quicker.

And how turning a car lane into a bike lane benefits flood protection?

His theory is if they put a walkway along the coastline it would stop flooding as it would push the sea further out. Of course, there is alot more to it than that in reality. It also depends on the cause of the flooding, where the water is coming from and a range of factors but Conall. He specifically mentions it in relation to rising sea levels because of global warming, with no sense of irony, not realising that if the area is getting flooded already, and the sea level rises, then putting a walkway there is not going to help the people on his side of the walkway.

To be clear - I haven't been keeping up to date on any of the Sandymount discussions because I never go near the place, so I'm not coming at this from any angle (other than blissful ignorance!).

I used to live around there but haven't for years, they are coming from a position of it couldn't get any worse to be honest. Some of his examples are bizarre, the idea that it is a main arterial route to northern Ireland is bizarre, I am sure there are some who use it but a main route is just a flight of fancy.

Type 17 · 17-12-2020 12:17pm

His main argument that, the promenade should be extended, was shut down on the first day by DCC, because the strand itself is a nature reserve and no building is allowed on it.

While I'm not up for building on nature reserves, the disappearance of a few metres of sand at the Sandymount end is not going to change the ecology of Sandymount Strand. However, that wouldn't solve the issue of pinch-points at the Martello tower and for the last ~150m at the Merrion end, where there are houses on the seaward side of the already narrower road.

AndrewJRenko · 17-12-2020 12:38pm

Type 17 wrote: »

His main argument that, the promenade should be extended, was shut down on the first day by DCC, because the strand itself is a nature reserve and no building is allowed on it.

While I'm not up for building on nature reserves, the disappearance of a few metres of sand at the Sandymount end is not going to change the ecology of Sandymount Strand. However, that wouldn't solve the issue of pinch-points at the Martello tower and for the last ~150m at the Merrion end, where there are houses on the seaward side of the already narrower road.

I'm sure the good people of Sandymount could be persuaded to give up a couple of metres of their gardens to protect their parking spaces, right?

DoraDelite · 17-12-2020 12:42pm

Type 17 wrote: »

His main argument that, the promenade should be extended, was shut down on the first day by DCC, because the strand itself is a nature reserve and no building is allowed on it.

While I'm not up for building on nature reserves, the disappearance of a few metres of sand at the Sandymount end is not going to change the ecology of Sandymount Strand. However, that wouldn't solve the issue of pinch-points at the Martello tower and for the last ~150m at the Merrion end, where there are houses on the seaward side of the already narrower road.

To me, I would see the goal of this to not only provide a nice safe wide cycle path but to remove traffic from the area, if you maintain the traffic lanes in both directions, you don't get that. I'm speaking as someone who uses this route instead of the M50 to go to the Dublin/Wicklow mountains. I use it as it's too easy and convenient where as I think it shouldn't be. You'll never get people switching modes of transport or taking more appropriate routes (the M50 was built specifically for this purpose) if the easiest option is to drive.

An example I see every day through Drumcondra are the Guinness trucks heading for the M1, instead of going out the Lucan bypass and the M50 they go through town because they can and it's easier. It's time to start looking at making all the shortcuts through the city harder or impossible to do. You would get rid of an awful lot of traffic with that alone as well as make it better for pedestrians and cyclists to get around.

For most people living in the city and urban villages, walking and cycling should be the mode of transport for the majority of their journeys followed by public transport, with the car as an exception. Our street design should reflect that.

Type 17 · 17-12-2020 12:54pm

DoraDelite wrote: »

...An example I see every day through Drumcondra are the Guinness trucks heading for the M1, instead of going out the Lucan bypass and the M50 they go through town because they can and it's easier. It's time to start looking at making all the shortcuts through the city harder or impossible to do...

They are probably told not to use the N4/M50 as they would incur the West Link toll of €4.30 (HGV <10 tons), per vehicle transit each way, plus the monthly toll tag charge of €1.21 per vehicle.

Selling tolling rights on public infrastructure to private companies has consequences...

Paddigol · 17-12-2020 12:59pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm sure the good people of Sandymount could be persuaded to give up a couple of metres of their gardens to protect their parking spaces, right?

What happens if one of them won't because they want a cycle lane?

CramCycle · 17-12-2020 2:41pm

A cheaper idea would be to do nothing structurally at all, and use the 250000euro to finance a set of cameras along the road with average speed detectors, and a garda who would permanently patrol the area or use the traffic cams to fine everyone who speeds, uses phone, endangers another road users, doesn't overtake safely, no motor tax, no insurance, no NCT and a range of other road offences with the money from that drilled into the continuation of this role. Not a once in a blue moon job but a permanent fixture for 5 years. Either traffic would dissipate in 3 months or it would become inherently safer for everyone. No one ever seems to like this suggestion of punishing the problem.

tomasrojo · 17-12-2020 2:44pm

I seem to remember, though, the Dutch saying that engineering always trumps enforcement. People either never got started on the enforcement, or ease up eventually, and the rat-runners/whatever return. There's also a problem of law enforcement tending to empathise more with "motorist problems", so get a bit exasperated at being asked to police sidewalk parking and tell you to just walk around.

CramCycle · 17-12-2020 2:48pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

I seem to remember, though, the Dutch saying that engineering always trumps enforcement. People either never got started on the enforcement, or ease up eventually, and the rat-runners/whatever return. There's also a problem of law enforcement tending to empathise more with "motorist problems", so get a bit exasperated at being asked to police sidewalk parking and tell you to just walk around.

I agree, its the current issue here where you would like Gardai to do something but they are the very ones who park in bike lanes for non emergencies, or would do the same themselves when off duty.

I would agree with you but since he is complaining about the money, I was pointing out there are alternatives but no one wants or seems willing to engage with them. The Dutch would be right, it would either never be acted upon or it would ease up eventually.

DoraDelite · 17-12-2020 2:56pm

Type 17 wrote: »

They are probably told not to use the N4/M50 as they would incur the West Link toll of €4.30 (HGV <10 tons), per vehicle transit each way, plus the monthly toll tag charge of €1.21 per vehicle.

Selling tolling rights on public infrastructure to private companies has consequences...

Whatever they're told, it still proves my point, it's easier for them (monetary or otherwise) not to use the M50 which was made for this type of traffic. So we get this type of traffic thundering through city streets all the time and this has a massive impact on the quality of life of residents and the ability for people to safely walk and cycle to get around.

Going back to the point, design this out of our city streets is where we need to be going with this.

Type 17 · 17-12-2020 3:21pm

DoraDelite wrote: »

Whatever they're told, it still proves my point, it's easier for them (monetary or otherwise) not to use the M50 which was made for this type of traffic. So we get this type of traffic thundering through city streets all the time and this has a massive impact on the quality of life of residents and the ability for people to safely walk and cycle to get around.

Going back to the point, design this out of our city streets is where we need to be going with this.

It was my point too - what's the point of building infrastructure and then tolling it so it doesn't get used?

Another example is Waterford city, where the N25 bridge over the river, which is only alternative to the city quays/original bridge, is tolled, so the quays and surrounds are still destroyed with traffic twice a day.

Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

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