14,500 traffic convictions to be quashed over Garda error

Noddyholder · 27-03-2017 5:22pm

Asked if that meant she would stay on she said: "I am absolutely committed to making sure that we continue to deliver on the transformation and the change and the reform agenda that I committed to Government we would do".

Taoiseach Enda Kenny earlier restated that he retains confidence in Ms O’Sullivan.

Mr Kenny's comments come as Sinn Féin is set to publish a motion of no confidence in Commissioner O'Sullivan.

The Garda Commissioner is facing increased pressure to consider her position after Fianna Fáil said it cannot express confidence in her at this time.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0327/862798-garda-osullivan-politics/

And around & around it goes ...

27-03-2017 5:32pm

this whole thing is farcical, from the top right down to the bottom, where is the truth and the trust?

Fleawuss · 27-03-2017 5:40pm

Someone needs to look at the impact of bureaucratisation of all sorts of work. We expect more work with more record keeping: it's killing the HSE and it cripples productivity. I'm not surprised that there are sorts of boxes being ticked that are pure fiction. You can't expect more to be done and it all to be recorded meticulously: there is only so much that can be done in any shift. Do less and record meticulously or do more and cut the regulations. That's the choice.

27-03-2017 6:27pm

Fleawuss wrote: »

Someone needs to look at the impact of bureaucratisation of all sorts of work. We expect more work with more record keeping: it's killing the HSE and it cripples productivity. I'm not surprised that there are sorts of boxes being ticked that are pure fiction. You can't expect more to be done and it all to be recorded meticulously: there is only so much that can be done in any shift. Do less and record meticulously or do more and cut the regulations. That's the choice.

I really just can't accept that a lack of time for record keeping is a valuable reason for fabricating or accidentally messing up 1million (if that is the case) legal documents/ inputs. In most lines of work a job done properly has to be adequately recorded in some form, that's life and that's most peoples jobs, you make time.

One thing I have heard however is that entry into the guards is primarily based on fitness tests, I'm not sure how true this is, but I would be of the assumption that fitness is only a small portion of their job. I imagine report writing, logging and administration makes up such a vast portion of their work that surely they should have the same literacy and IT competency as a for instance a lawyer, a nurse or a GP and should be trained as such?

please helpThank YOU · 27-03-2017 7:35pm

Is This True? the more conviction a Garda gets the higher He/She Rise through the ranks which = more Money. So have Gardai risen through the ranks on the so called errors? and made more Money?

Donal55 · 27-03-2017 7:38pm

Noddyholder wrote: »

Asked if that meant she would stay on she said: "I am absolutely committed to making sure that we continue to deliver on the transformation and the change and the reform agenda that I committed to Government we would do".

Taoiseach Enda Kenny earlier restated that he retains confidence in Ms O’Sullivan.

Mr Kenny's comments come as Sinn Féin is set to publish a motion of no confidence in Commissioner O'Sullivan.

The Garda Commissioner is facing increased pressure to consider her position after Fianna Fáil said it cannot express confidence in her at this time.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0327/862798-garda-osullivan-politics/

And around & around it goes ...

The balls in Mehole's court now on confidence vote day.

Fleawuss · 28-03-2017 7:04am

222233 wrote: »

I really just can't accept that a lack of time for record keeping is a valuable reason for fabricating or accidentally messing up 1million (if that is the case) legal documents/ inputs. In most lines of work a job done properly has to be adequately recorded in some form, that's life and that's most peoples jobs, you make time

You've answered yourself. adequately versus what seems to be required. Some form versus what is required. And yes, people are going to make time in the way they did.

This is on such a scale that it has to be recognized that the system itself is at fault. It is time to recognize bureaucratisation as an enemy of productivity or vice versa. They exist in inverse proportion.

BattleCorp · 28-03-2017 8:13am

Fleawuss wrote: »

This is on such a scale that it has to be recognized that the system itself is at fault. It is time to recognize bureaucratisation as an enemy of productivity or vice versa. They exist in inverse proportion.

I don't accept that we should be absolving individual Gardaí of any wrongdoing and blaming everything on 'the system'. Yes, there is a problem with the system when it lets them get away with this for so long. But individual Gardaí aren't blameless either.

How difficult is it to put accurate figures into the Pulse system. Gardaí should be using their notebook to record when they do a breath test, go back to the station, look at the notebook, enter how many tests you did. It's not rocket science. It's not a literacy problem nor is it an IT problem. It's a telling the truth problem.

Lets call a spade a spade. Some Gardaí were doing sweet fcukall when they should have been doing drink driving spot checks. They then went back to the station and 'falsified' records to make it look like they were good boys and girls who did loads of breath checks.

28-03-2017 8:20am

osarusan wrote: »

Bossman guardface: Ok lads, ye 3 were on drink-driving checkpoints last night, and I need to get some numbers from ye. Fergal?

Fergal: 22 boss.

Bossman guardface: Grand. Joe?

Joe: 19 boss. Slow night.

Bossman guardface: 19. Tom?

Tom: 37,000 boss.

Bossman guardface: Great shtuff lads.

The thing is, Tom is the one who gets promoted

robbiezero · 28-03-2017 8:44am

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL, so your suggestion is that we take Gardai who are happy to claim double the amount of tests they do and put them into murder and corruption investigations?

grahambo wrote: »

Point taken....

I'm a Garda. I'll put you down for 4 points.

BattleCorp · 28-03-2017 8:53am

robbiezero wrote: »

I'm a Garda. I'll put you down for 4 points.

You didn't send out the required fixed charge notice for the 146,685'th time (http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/motoring-news/242109/gardai-issue-substantial-statement-in-response-to-fixed-charge-and-drink-driving-controversy.html) so this conviction is going to have to be quashed.

By the way, you now owe me €1000 for my legal expenses. I've engaged an actuary to calculate the loss of earnings, loss of amenity etc. so I'll be adding that onto the bill too. I'll be back with the final bill when I find a piece of paper big enough to write that figure on.

Dionysius2 · 28-03-2017 3:00pm

Commsnr O'Sullivan's carefully worded allusive comment about the possibility of other issues arising later and which may be seen as deficient on the honesty scale is thought provoking. What are we being softened up for with that disclosure, one wonders. Anyone care to expand ?

Mr.Micro · 28-03-2017 3:09pm

Dionysius2 wrote: »

Commsnr O'Sullivan's carefully worded allusive comment about the possibility of other issues arising later and which may be seen as deficient on the honesty scale is thought provoking. What are we being softened up for with that disclosure, one wonders. Anyone care to expand ?

She only saying about other issues, so that she cannot be accused later of knowing nothing, whatever they turn out to be.

We need to get civilians into all levels of An Garda, to manage from top to bottom. An Garda are not able or are unwilling to serve the State and public and do what they are paid for. A huge change is needed, now.

Donal55 · 28-03-2017 3:09pm

Dionysius2 wrote: »

Commsnr O'Sullivan's carefully worded allusive comment about the possibility of other issues arising later and which may be seen as deficient on the honesty scale is thought provoking. What are we being softened up for with that disclosure, one wonders. Anyone care to expand ?

Birmingham Six style convictions!!
Anything is possible with this shower when you consider the amount of work involved for 1000000 extra breath tests.

Mr.Micro · 28-03-2017 3:13pm

Donal55 wrote: »

Birmingham Six style convictions!!
Anything is possible with this shower when you consider the amount of work involved for 1000000 extra breath tests.

I would not be a bit surprised.

My name is URL · 28-03-2017 3:25pm

So she's saying that she'll refuse to step down even if a vote of no confidence passes. That's some Democratic Republic of Congo level shit

What happens in that instance? Some neck on the cunt to say she'll ignore the democratically elected people and their decision should they go against her.

Mr.Micro · 28-03-2017 3:33pm

My name is URL wrote: »

So she's saying that she'll refuse to step down even if a vote of no confidence passes. That's some Democratic Republic of Congo level shit

What happens in that instance? Some neck on the cunt to say she'll ignore the democratically elected people and their decision should they go against her.

It demonstrates only further that An Garda, are a law on to itself. Accountable to nobody. It has become so used to doing whatever it likes.

please helpThank YOU · 28-03-2017 4:51pm

My name is URL wrote: »

So she's saying that she'll refuse to step down even if a vote of no confidence passes. That's some Democratic Republic of Congo level shit

What happens in that instance? Some neck on the cunt to say she'll ignore the democratically elected people and their decision should they go against her.

Republic of Congo /Ireland I am might as well write a letter to Westminster in London England. asked them as a Concerned Citizen of Eire/Ireland I want you take back full Control of Eire /Ireland as we are being run by dictatorship Government /police /Garda force.

please helpThank YOU · 28-03-2017 8:01pm

Donal55 wrote: »

Birmingham Six style convictions!!
Anything is possible with this shower when you consider the amount of work involved for 1000000 extra breath tests.

Claire Byrne live last nite An Garda Siochana road traffic crisis . watch it on the RTE Player Monday 27 mar 2017. There was one Lady in the audience and she might be one of 14500 Men/Women Wrongly Convicted . This Lady/Women was sent to Limerick Prison for 10 days for alleged she was driving 65 Kilometers in a 60 Kilometers zone . This is not a Joke people here Should watch the RTE player and see for the Them Selves.

Dionysius2 · 28-03-2017 10:04pm

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Claire Byrne live last nite An Garda Siochana road traffic crisis . watch it on the RTE Player Monday 27 mar 2017. There was one Lady in the audience and she might be one of 14500 Men/Women Wrongly Convicted . This Lady/Women was sent to Limerick Prison for 10 days for alleged she was driving 65 Kilometers in a 60 Kilometers zone . This is not a Joke people here Should watch the RTE player and see for the Them Selves.

Yes, this is truly appalling. If the democratic rulers don't see that as completely unacceptable then we really have descended into a banana republic quagmire. There are no words to describe this travesty of justice.

But it's clear that Noreen would have been run out of town by the scruff of her neck already if it wasn't for the fact that the FG crew have painted themselves into a corner by their treatment of the last Commissioner.
That was a monumental foot shooting which now compromises them when it comes to such an obvious ditching of a very very lame duck.

Noddyholder · 29-03-2017 8:26am

An Garda Síochána is due to publish a report detailing financial irregularities at the Garda College over a number of years.

It also identified a large number of bank accounts as part of a non-transparent system of accounting.

One, a laundry account, was not being used for that purpose.

Tánaiste Frances Fitzgerald told the Dáil last night that the report raises serious governance issues and will be referred to the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Public Accounts Committee.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0329/863350-garda-report-templemore/

This is all on top of the other issues, & on it goes & goes .

29-03-2017 8:55am

Thinking a bit about this reminds me of an incident before christmas. I was driving when I was pulled over at a checkpoint doing random breath tests. My colleague was in the car in front and he was tested. Neither of us had been drinking, it was about 7pm. The garda approached my car, and (I speculate) saw i had kids in the car with me. He chatted a little and told me to go ahead.
Now i wonder if he realised that I had definitely not been drinking and decided not to breathalyse me in front of the kids, but then recorded it as a test.
If so, this is a clash between 'internal audit' and common sense. Not saying if its good or bad but wondering if this might have been the sort of thing thats behind this scandal.

29-03-2017 9:01am

By the way I've seen an awful lot of gardai/speed van checks in the past month, do you think they are trying to make up the numbers? Or maybe its payback for the speed penalty points scandal?

Potential-Monke · 29-03-2017 10:03am

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Is This True? the more conviction a Garda gets the higher He/She Rise through the ranks which = more Money. So have Gardai risen through the ranks on the so called errors? and made more Money?

No, not true. There may have been a time when work return = promotion, and i'm sure today that the work return is taken into account, but it can't be the sole decider for a promotion, because you cannot expect a Garda to go out and get X amount of speeders, drink drivers, etc. That just forces the Garda to "do" people they wouldn't normally, basically takes away their discretion. So promotion, when i left, was based on not just the work return, but on the quality of files, attendance, court presentation, reports, etc. It's all taken into account. And then you don't get it because someone knew someone... Just like every job really!

Deleted User wrote: »

Thinking a bit about this reminds me of an incident before christmas. I was driving when I was pulled over at a checkpoint doing random breath tests. My colleague was in the car in front and he was tested. Neither of us had been drinking, it was about 7pm. The garda approached my car, and (I speculate) saw i had kids in the car with me. He chatted a little and told me to go ahead.
Now i wonder if he realised that I had definitely not been drinking and decided not to breathalyse me in front of the kids, but then recorded it as a test.
If so, this is a clash between 'internal audit' and common sense. Not saying if its good or bad but wondering if this might have been the sort of thing thats behind this scandal.

Doubtful. MAT (Mandatory Alcohol Testing) checkpoints are just that, mandatory, regardless of who is in the car. If he didn't test you, it was possible a random checkpoint with not MAT requirements, so they use the chat to see if there's any smell or slurred words or any other indicators of drink driving before using the roadside breath test. MAT checkpoints allow you to use it straight away, non-MAT checkpoints require more evidence before using it. You'll never know which is which mind.

Little CuChulainn · 29-03-2017 10:55am

Dionysius2 wrote: »

Commsnr O'Sullivan's carefully worded allusive comment about the possibility of other issues arising later and which may be seen as deficient on the honesty scale is thought provoking. What are we being softened up for with that disclosure, one wonders. Anyone care to expand ?

My first guess would be that the number of checkpoints recorded is wrong. It will probably be described as a clerical error but in reality it will be down to the way they are recorded on PULSE.

My name is URL wrote: »

So she's saying that she'll refuse to step down even if a vote of no confidence passes. That's some Democratic Republic of Congo level shit

What happens in that instance? Some neck on the cunt to say she'll ignore the democratically elected people and their decision should they go against her.

They can just fire her. It's not like she's running a coup.

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Claire Byrne live last nite An Garda Siochana road traffic crisis . watch it on the RTE Player Monday 27 mar 2017. There was one Lady in the audience and she might be one of 14500 Men/Women Wrongly Convicted . This Lady/Women was sent to Limerick Prison for 10 days for alleged she was driving 65 Kilometers in a 60 Kilometers zone . This is not a Joke people here Should watch the RTE player and see for the Them Selves.

It's unlikely a speeding offence would fall under the category. I think the majority of incidents of this FCP mess up will be people who were prosecuted for multiple things at once. Many Gardaí seem to have been under the impression that if you were prosecuting someone for multiple traffic offences the requirement to issue a fixed charge penalty for any single one of them was removed. So the people who will fall under the category will be people who committed a penalty point offence but a ticket was never issued. People who simply never received a fixed charge penalty don't necessarily fall under that category as the ticket may have been issued but never received because the state won't splash out on registered post.

2 stroke · 29-03-2017 1:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

By the way I've seen an awful lot of gardai/speed van checks in the past month, do you think they are trying to make up the numbers? Or maybe its payback for the speed penalty points scandal?

Garda activity in my area is up by 1000s%. A few weeks ago the squad and unmarked car were parked outside the station most of the night. Now they are out there manning checkpoints and pulling drivers over. Somebodys obviously given them a boot up the backside, don't see any sign of them going after the crims in the area though.

Little CuChulainn · 29-03-2017 1:15pm

2 stroke wrote: »

Garda activity in my area is up by 1000s%. A few weeks ago the squad and unmarked car were parked outside the station most of the night. Now they are out there manning checkpoints and pulling drivers over. Somebodys obviously given them a boot up the backside, don't see any sign of them going after the crims in the area though.

Do you spend a lot of time with the crims in that area?

Donal55 · 29-03-2017 1:17pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Do you spend a lot of time with the crims in that area?

Most of the crims are manning checkpoints and pulling drivers over!!

2 stroke · 29-03-2017 2:33pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Do you spend a lot of time with the crims in that area?

More time than I'd like. They drive around like they are untouchable, yet a lady that never takes a drink ever, has been very publicly breathalysed twice in recent weeks. (Her car is very recognisable in this area, but she was only collecting her son from the pub both times.)

Esel · 29-03-2017 5:10pm

Noddyholder wrote: »

An Garda Síochána is due to publish a report detailing financial irregularities at the Garda College over a number of years.

It also identified a large number of bank accounts as part of a non-transparent system of accounting.

One, a laundry account, was not being used for that purpose.

Tánaiste Frances Fitzgerald told the Dáil last night that the report raises serious governance issues and will be referred to the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Public Accounts Committee.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0329/863350-garda-report-templemore/

This is all on top of the other issues, & on it goes & goes .

Money laundry?

Ted111 · 29-03-2017 5:16pm

"When you're rewiring the house you need the lights on"
Noirin O Sullivan.

When you do electric work the first thing you do is turn off the juice dumb biche. I hope someone gives her a fork and puts her to play near some sockets. Fcuking Troglodyte.

Donal55 · 29-03-2017 5:18pm

Esel wrote: »

Money laundry?

Over 50 bank accounts. With €000s being transferred. With land portfolios.
A money laundry that's on a par with the Kinahan's

Ted111 · 29-03-2017 5:40pm

Donal55 wrote: »

Over 50 bank accounts. With €000s being transferred. With land portfolios.
A money laundry that's on a par with the Kinahan's

Do you remember a few years ago senior gardai were being comped with free holidays by one of the big tyre firms. Who just happened to get contracts for garda fleet. There was lots of enquiries and commissions and recommendations for tender procedures. Nobody went to jail though. Or got sacked.

29-03-2017 6:03pm

Dionysius2 wrote: »

Commsnr O'Sullivan's carefully worded allusive comment about the possibility of other issues arising later and which may be seen as deficient on the honesty scale is thought provoking. What are we being softened up for with that disclosure, one wonders. Anyone care to expand ?

Obviously its a case of leaking damaging stuff now, so that it doesnt get 'discovered' in the Tribunals.

It will be 'old news' by then.

Calhoun · 29-03-2017 6:11pm

I love how all the every day hero gaurds that came out of the woodwork in December decrying how they were poverty stricken and working all the hours in the week have gone silent.

I don't know how the minister can last much longer and I am not sure how the Gaurds as an entity can keep getting away with it. What outrage becomes too much.

jelutong · 29-03-2017 6:14pm

They obviously acquired a taste for free Coffee and Douhgnuts during their education in Templemore.

Mr.Micro · 29-03-2017 6:51pm

To think many of these People giving sworn evidence against suspects in court on a daily basis...

blackbox · 29-03-2017 7:55pm

Calhoun wrote: »

I love how all the every day hero gaurds that came out of the woodwork in December decrying how they were poverty stricken and working all the hours in the week have gone silent.

No sign of the GRA or AGSI to condemn any of these scandals.

Reminds me of another representative organisation that is very slow to condemn criminal activities of its members.

Esel · 29-03-2017 7:59pm

blackbox wrote: »

No sign of the GRA or AGSI to condemn any of these scandals.

Reminds me of another representative organisation that is very slow to condemn criminal activities of its members.

Which one?

(You broke the quote in your post btw.)

SEPT 23 1989 · 29-03-2017 8:01pm

From what Noreen is saying the worst is yet to come

Dont know how they will ever recover from this

steddyeddy · 29-03-2017 8:14pm

Noddyholder wrote: »

An Garda Síochána is due to publish a report detailing financial irregularities at the Garda College over a number of years.

It also identified a large number of bank accounts as part of a non-transparent system of accounting.

One, a laundry account, was not being used for that purpose.

Tánaiste Frances Fitzgerald told the Dáil last night that the report raises serious governance issues and will be referred to the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Public Accounts Committee.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0329/863350-garda-report-templemore/

This is all on top of the other issues, & on it goes & goes .

Feck off with governance issues. It's likely criminal.

My name is URL · 29-03-2017 8:29pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They can just fire her. It's not like she's running a coup.

Well she still has the full support of the Justice Minister, who is the only one that can fire her. If she hasn't been sacked so far then I don't see it happening in the case of a No Confidence motion being passed.

Imo, and leaving everything else aside; publicly stating that you will refuse to resign in such circumstances should itself be reprimandable.

It's not a coup, but it looks extremely bad. Her calling in the top brass for briefings and having Callinan in Garda HQ yesterday raises a few questions. It's not exactly transparent.

Little CuChulainn · 29-03-2017 8:35pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Well she still has the full support of the Justice Minister, who is the only one that can fire her. If she hasn't been sacked so far then I don't see it happening in the case of a No Confidence motion being passed.

Imo, and leaving everything else aside; publicly stating that you will refuse to resign in such circumstances should itself be reprimandable.

It's not a coup, but it looks extremely bad. Her calling in the top brass for briefings and having Callinan in Garda HQ yesterday raises a few questions. It's not exactly transparent.

But if she resigns everyone will just give out about her getting off lightly and not being held to account, just like the man before her.

My name is URL · 29-03-2017 8:43pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

But if she resigns everyone will just give out about her getting off lightly and not being held to account, just like the man before her.

So are you defending her refusal to resign if a no confidence motion is passed?

And people are bloody right to give out about such people getting off lightly. In any other job you would just be politely asked to resign and sent off with a huge pension.

If Callinan was a commissioner in the UK and called whistleblowers disgusting, he'd have been out on his ear right away. That can't happen in Ireland since the government don't want to fire people that they have appointed. Makes 'em look like idiots for giving them jobs in the first place.

Little CuChulainn · 29-03-2017 9:00pm

My name is URL wrote: »

So are you defending her refusal to resign if a no confidence motion is passed?

Nope, I'm saying it isn't the end of democracy.

blackbox · 29-03-2017 9:14pm

I wouldn't like her to be sacked if people (i.e. politicians) thought that "now we've taken decisive action - problem solved".

The problem goes much deeper. Every member at every level who falsified records, buried reports or mis-managed finances needs to be held to account. Some of these may be criminal matters.

.

RustyNut · 29-03-2017 9:24pm

Calhoun · 29-03-2017 9:35pm

blackbox wrote: »

No sign of the GRA or AGSI to condemn any of these scandals.

Reminds me of another representative organisation that is very slow to condemn criminal activities of its members.

I wouldnt even mind that so much but we all have that connected Gaurda friend who posted up a nice little sob story on facebook about how they were on the breadline ect, and how hard they worked everyday for the public of this country.

Those facebook heroes seem to have gone quite, something stinks and the blue is fading. I wonder what scapegoat they will use to blame this one, there will of course be no arrests.

Noddyholder · 30-03-2017 8:10am

Concerns about widespread financial irregularities at the Garda College were first expressed over a decade ago, a damning internal audit has revealed.

The document detailed the use of 48 different bank accounts and a "non-transparent system of accounting" at the college in Templemore, Co Tipperary.

issues were flagged as far back as 2006 but only two out of 12 subsequent recommendations from the Garda finance directorate were implemented.

A private company, known as The Garda Síochána Sportsfield Co Ltd, held land for the college and had members of the college's management as its directors.

The Garda Síochána Act 2005 banned gardaí from being involved in land contracts and the report found that the company should have been dissolved from the beginning of the act and its assets transferred to the OPW. This did not happen.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-college-spent-thousands-on-jewellery-flowers-and-golf-society-35577863.html

The police authority need to do more than give hard worded statements .

Per Gene Kerrigan...
"The evidence of Garda scandals keeps coming in waves. And it tells us the Garda rank and file is steeped in a culture that breeds slipshod work, arrogance towards the law and contempt for civilians. We would not tolerate these standards in a workforce making tea-towels. Tolerating such standards in a police force is not respecting law and order, it's disrespecting the very concept."

archer22 · 30-03-2017 8:32am

Calhoun wrote: »

I love how all the every day hero gaurds that came out of the woodwork in December decrying how they were poverty stricken and working all the hours in the week have gone silent.

I don't know how the minister can last much longer and I am not sure how the Gaurds as an entity can keep getting away with it. What outrage becomes too much.

They will keep getting away with it because they can keep selling Paddy Soap the illusion of security.

And at the end of the day old Paddy will tolerate anything as long as he is fooled into believing the Gardai keeps him 'safe'.

14,500 traffic convictions to be quashed over Garda error

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