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The SF vote was part of a class war against Middle Ireland

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    #92
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    I’d have to disagree there Bee, yes Middle Ireland want housing and health sorted, but the so called parties of the left don’t seem to be up to forming a govt.

    FG wanted to go into opp. but the bunch of assorted lefties nearly soiled themselves when the thought they might have to run the country.They couldn’t do it.

    You see you couldn’t change the govt. and change the system Bee, maybe in the far future perhaps, but no point in whining that the electorate want change when it’s obvious you can’t change it.

    You need to convince the electorate that you can sort things out, you are a long way from convincing them right now.

    You say you disagree then go on to talk about something else.
    It's tradition to stick to the point you begin talking on.

    We have a true privilege class and it's not the average tax payer nor those on lower income.

    Not true. They have never stopped working towards it however slim it looks.

    Yes you can. Kenny got in in 2011 on that very promise. It's not middle Ireland's fault he told porkies to beat the band.

    Middle Ireland spoke in the election. We can only pontificate as to how we might think they might be thinking today ;)


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    #93
    Fred Cryton
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    growleaves wrote: »
    Voting for a social democratic party isn't lashing out.


    Except the Shinners are NOT transferring to Social democratic parties like Labour and SocDems. They're going to loony lefty Marxists like PBP.


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    #94
    Better Than Christ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭Better Than Christ


    I know a lot of working people who voted for Sinn Féin not because they want a free house, but because they want to be able to afford to buy or even rent one some time soon. I'd be sceptical about whether SF will do a whole lot for them, but it's unfair (and quite typical of the recent phenomenon of toys being flung from prams by right-wingers who only like democracy when it goes in their favour) to suggest that people want something for nothing. In many cases, they want something fairly basic in return for their hard work.


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    #95
    Fred Cryton
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Better Than Christ wrote: »
    I know a lot of working people who voted for Sinn Féin not because they want a free house, but because they want to be able to afford to buy or even rent one some time soon. I'd be sceptical about whether SF will do a whole lot for them, but it's unfair (and quite typical of the recent phenomenon of toys being flung from prams by right-wingers who only like democracy when it goes in their favour) to suggest that people want something for nothing. In many cases, they want something fairly basic in return for their hard work.


    That's disingenuous. Wanting an affordable home in the centre of a successful capital city is simply not realistic. If more people want to live there than the supply, the price will go up. This is very basic. They might as well say they want a new Ferrari for cheap. They can want all they like.



    Plenty of very affordable accommodation outside central areas of Dublin.


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    #96
    Better Than Christ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭Better Than Christ


    Fred Cryton wrote: »
    That's disingenuous. Wanting an affordable home in the centre of a successful capital city is simply not realistic. If more people want to live there than the supply, the price will go up. This is very basic. They might as well say they want a new Ferrari for cheap. They can want all they like.



    Plenty of very affordable accommodation outside central areas of Dublin.

    So you've gone from bashing people who don't have jobs to bashing people who do work, but who don't earn enough. Unsurprising.

    You are being disingenuous - I never mentioned anything about successful capital cities. All these people want is a reasonably priced home within commuting distance of their place of work. I know people on fairly average salaries who work in Dublin and are paying over €1200 a month to live in places like Carlow and south Wexford. Throw their fuel costs in and that's more than half their income gone from the outset. Whether sore right-wing whingers like it or not, of all the main parties, Sinn Féin is the only one that a lot of working people trust to improve their standard of living.


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    #97
    micky jammy delahunty
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭micky jammy delahunty


    Fred Cryton wrote: »

    SF won 80% of the vote in Darndale. Now this is an area that is almost 100% social or taxpayer supported in some way. Few voters are renting on the open market there. So don't try to convince me they care about rent. Their SF vote was not about policy. If getting a free house for their kids was all important, they would be transferring more to Labour and SocDems.

    This a display of your bigotry. Darndale has had a history of high unemployment, but the vast majority of people in Darndale have always been in employment. They do pay rent and even some have bought their houses outright. There's all kinds of reasons where people cannot by their own homes.

    Let's talk for a moment about the bigots of Ireland. Basically, to be a "success" in Ireland, it greatly helps to be socially conservative and middle-class. The bit of the job interview, with the little tinker woman from HR is a bottom sniffing to see if your social class is appropriate for the job. I know two people, from the Dardale area, who lost their jobs because of being from that area, good skilled jobs, which were then handed over to nice middle-class boys.

    How does a landlord get a house; they go to the bank, and because of their social class, they get a mortgage, and then make people who cannot get a mortgage because of their social class pay for the house. And it's the policy of the state to make sure the landlord can't lose.

    Between fat bellied ranchers, and all manner of racketeering, the socially conservative traditional Irish middle-class are a genus of parasite the society in general could do without.

    Hope the semi-intelligent voters who thought they'd punt on SF know they're in the company of the parents of those lovely feral street kids burning cars in Darndale.

    The feral children working in the banks did a lot worse than burn a few cars.

    I assume you are a bigot because like all the other middle-class bigots in this country you have greatly benefited from bigotry.

    I don't see anything changing in this country, the bigots have it all tied up, from RTE to AIB. It would be nice if they'd just enjoy their ill gotten gains, and shut up.


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    #98
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Fred Cryton wrote: »
    SF won 80% of the vote in Darndale. Now this is an area that is almost 100% social or taxpayer supported in some way. Few voters are renting on the open market there. So don't try to convince me they care about rent. Their SF vote was not about policy. If getting a free house for their kids was all important, they would be transferring more to Labour and SocDems.

    Dublin south central is also a massive welfare consuming constituency, the only constituency who voted completely left. This was a vote for who was giving away the most free stuff, the amount of 'free houses' promised as a leauge table pretty much correlates with first preference votes.

    its voting with the hand out, not the hand up.


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    #99
    jay1988
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭jay1988


    Another "I'm angry everyone didn't vote the way I wanted them to thread", brilliant.


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    #100
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    micky jammy delahunty wrote: »
    This a display of your bigotry. Darndale has had a history of high unemployment, but the vast majority of people in Darndale have always been in employment. They do pay rent and even some have bought their houses outright. There's all kinds of reasons where people cannot by their own homes.

    Let's talk for a moment about the bigots of Ireland. Basically, to be a "success" in Ireland, it greatly helps to be socially conservative and middle-class. The bit of the job interview, with the little tinker woman from HR is a bottom sniffing to see if your social class is appropriate for the job. I know two people, from the Dardale area, who lost their jobs because of being from that area, good skilled jobs, which were then handed over to nice middle-class boys.

    How does a landlord get a house; they go to the bank, and because of their social class, they get a mortgage, and then make people who cannot get a mortgage because of their social class pay for the house. And it's the policy of the state to make sure the landlord can't lose.

    Between fat bellied ranchers, and all manner of racketeering, the socially conservative traditional Irish middle-class are a genus of parasite the society in general could do without.




    The feral children working in the banks did a lot worse than burn a few cars.

    I assume you are a bigot because like all the other middle-class bigots in this country you have greatly benefited from bigotry.

    I don't see anything changing in this country, the bigots have it all tied up, from RTE to AIB. It would be nice if they'd just enjoy their ill gotten gains, and shut up.

    You think that post you are replying to of his was bad in his many hate speeches against people from working class areas and anyone wearing a tracksuit then you need to read his other posts since he registered at election time, and he is allowed to continue to spout on with these hate speeches against innocent people for being from a poor neglected area or because of what they wear.

    This election seems to have seriously unhinged some people.


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    #101
    Better Than Christ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭Better Than Christ


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Dublin south central is also a massive welfare consuming constituency, the only constituency who voted completely left. This was a vote for who was giving away the most free stuff, the amount of 'free houses' promised as a leauge table pretty much correlates with first preference votes.

    its voting with the hand out, not the hand up.

    Most people who live in that constituency, and who are old enough to vote, have jobs.


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    #102
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Better Than Christ wrote: »
    Most people who live in that constituency, and who are old enough to vote, have jobs.

    22% unemployment, above the national average and over the national average for semi skilled, unskilled and unknown workers, 13.2% of households are lone parents.

    12865 disabled people over 18 and under 65 in an area with 78230 people between 18-65 , thats 16.5% of working aged people are "disabled"....

    "Of the 37,142 persons aged 15 years and over who were outside the labour force, 28.8 per cent were students"

    https://census.cso.ie/areaprofiles/areaprofile.aspx?Geog_Type=NDC&Geog_Code=17

    Even those who are working are in general on lower incomes. Its a constituency where not a lot of tax is paid but a lot of tax money is spent.


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    #103
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    If I was Margret Cash or the like why on earth would I want a change in government?

    Also the lies to make the FG'ers feel better twist and turn. 'SF do so poorly because they serve the welfare class who never vote'. 'SF did so well because they pander to the wasters who want something for nothing...who it turns out do vote'.
    You folk are ignorant and spiteful. More and more decent hard working people are seeing their circumstances worsen so some of them floated their votes away from FF/FG. Seriously get over it and look at your party's failings.


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    #104
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Fred Cryton wrote: »
    That's disingenuous. Wanting an affordable home in the centre of a successful capital city is simply not realistic. If more people want to live there than the supply, the price will go up. This is very basic. They might as well say they want a new Ferrari for cheap. They can want all they like.



    Plenty of very affordable accommodation outside central areas of Dublin.

    very affordable my arse.


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    #105
    Better Than Christ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭Better Than Christ


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Even those who are working are in general on lower incomes

    So their vote is worth less then?


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    #106
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Better Than Christ wrote: »
    So their vote is worth less then?

    no. MY point is that its people who don't really pay tax voting to get things that are paid for with tax money. Its a very easy choice to vote with the hand out when you know theres not a hope in hell its going to hit you in the pocket , even if they fail to deliver you don't suffer, theres only up side.

    This is where the narrow tax net hurts us. If people on minimum wage and up to 28k were actually paying tax they'd think twice before voting for SF/PbP.


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    #107
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    no. MY point is that its people who don't really pay tax voting to get things that are paid for with tax money. Its a very easy choice to vote with the hand out when you know theres not a hope in hell its going to hit you in the pocket , even if they fail to deliver you don't suffer, theres only up side.

    Circa 450,000 gave SF a first preference vote, all with the hand out?


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    #108
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Circa 450,000 gave SF a first preference vote, all with the hand out?

    964,000 people – earned less than €28,500 ..... so half of them probably did.


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    #109
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    33% of households in ireland are on under 30k.

    So it's the low paid who you are claiming have the hand out and don't really pay tax.
    Thanks I can write you off now as a loon.


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    #110
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    So it's the low paid who you are claiming have the hand out and don't really pay tax.
    Thanks I can write you off now as a loon.

    but they dont, somebody on 28.5k pays 4k in tax for the year total if theyve no dependents or anything. even out of that 960k people, less than half them are even near that amount of pay, if you have one lad on 28.5k and he's living with his missus on the social (not married) , he's contributing 4k and she's pulling out almost 10k. Thats an economically detracting household.


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    #111
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    I was under the impression that people voted for political parties because of policies noting to do with bizarre ill-defined stereotypes about the other side :pac:



    Some but not all of the posters in this thread are coming across as complete loons.


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    #112
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    but they dont, somebody on 28.5k pays 4k in tax for the year total if theyve no dependents or anything. even out of that 960k people, less than half them are even near that amount of pay, if you have one lad on 28.5k and he's living with his missus on the social (not married) , he's contributing 4k and she's pulling out almost 10k. Thats an economically detracting household.
    As I said you're an out and out loon. Btw there are far more taxes than just income tax.


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    #113
    Better Than Christ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭Better Than Christ


    Eric Cartman wrote: »

    This is where the narrow tax net hurts us. If people on minimum wage and up to 28k were actually paying tax they'd think twice before voting for SF/PbP.

    So if they had even less money than they already have, they'd think twice about voting for parties that promise to improve the lives of people on lower incomes?

    Have you thought this through?


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    #114
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Better Than Christ wrote: »
    So if they had even less money than they already have, they'd think twice about voting for parties that promise to improve the lives of people on lower incomes?

    Have you thought this through?

    im not sure if its a comprehension issue or youre being intentionally obtuse, my consistent point the entire time is that we have 960,000 people contributing very little to our economy because of successively bad policies which have narrowed the tax net. A vote for SF/PbP etc.. was easy for those people to make because they have no skin in the game and don't stand to lose out. Its a vote with a hand out to get 'free' stuff without thinking who's paying for it.

    its the exact same as if everyone in the country making over 30k voted for a party that was going to cut off welfare, they wouldn't be losing out but it would be a selfish vote that didn't consider the other side of the coin.

    a vote for SF/PbP is a selfish decision that is another knife in the back of every working professional and skilled tradesperson who does the economic heavy lifting here.


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    #115
    Fionn1952
    Registered Users Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    im not sure if its a comprehension issue or youre being intentionally obtuse, my consistent point the entire time is that we have 960,000 people contributing very little to our economy because of successively bad policies which have narrowed the tax net. A vote for SF/PbP etc.. was easy for those people to make because they have no skin in the game and don't stand to lose out. Its a vote with a hand out to get 'free' stuff without thinking who's paying for it.

    its the exact same as if everyone in the country making over 30k voted for a party that was going to cut off welfare, they wouldn't be losing out but it would be a selfish vote that didn't consider the other side of the coin.

    a vote for SF/PbP is a selfish decision that is another knife in the back of every working professional and skilled tradesperson who does the economic heavy lifting here.

    I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you voted for parties you hoped would be beneficial to you, your family and those in similar situations to you?

    Very few people vote in a totally altruistic manner, you just reckon that your vote for a party committed to reducing your tax take, or giving you more services for your tax paid is totally different from the working poor voting for the party who will provide them with more too. You've both got your hand out, you're just pointing while the arm is outstretched to try and hide it.

    Now if I'm totally mistaken and you're an ardent social democrat or Green Party voter for example, I would of course retract my comment.


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    #116
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you voted for parties you hoped would be beneficial to you, your family and those in similar situations to you?

    Very few people vote in a totally altruistic manner, you just reckon that your vote for a party committed to reducing your tax take, or giving you more services for your tax paid is totally different from the working poor voting for the party who will provide them with more too. You've both got your hand out, you're just pointing while the arm is outstretched to try and hide it.

    Now if I'm totally mistaken and you're an ardent social democrat or Green Party voter for example, I would of course retract my comment.

    ofcourse people vote for their own lot, as above an inherrintly selfish vote, it explains a lot about it. Sadly there is no party that represents my interests, not a single party had a viable plan to cut any tax. Wanting to keep your own hard earned tax money is a much more benign and reasonable request than asking the government for free things paid for by others.


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    #117
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    As I said you're an out and out loon. Btw there are far more taxes than just income tax.

    The same is true in other European countries, including the beloved Swedish model.
    Ever but a pint in Scandinavia?


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    #118
    Granny15
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭Granny15


    micky jammy delahunty wrote: »
    This a display of your bigotry. Darndale has had a history of high unemployment, but the vast majority of people in Darndale have always been in employment. They do pay rent and even some have bought their houses outright. There's all kinds of reasons where people cannot by their own homes.

    Let's talk for a moment about the bigots of Ireland. Basically, to be a "success" in Ireland, it greatly helps to be socially conservative and middle-class. The bit of the job interview, with the little tinker woman from HR is a bottom sniffing to see if your social class is appropriate for the job. I know two people, from the Dardale area, who lost their jobs because of being from that area, good skilled jobs, which were then handed over to nice middle-class boys.

    How does a landlord get a house; they go to the bank, and because of their social class, they get a mortgage, and then make people who cannot get a mortgage because of their social class pay for the house. And it's the policy of the state to make sure the landlord can't lose.

    Between fat bellied ranchers, and all manner of racketeering, the socially conservative traditional Irish middle-class are a genus of parasite the society in general could do without.




    The feral children working in the banks did a lot worse than burn a few cars.

    I assume you are a bigot because like all the other middle-class bigots in this country you have greatly benefited from bigotry.

    I don't see anything changing in this country, the bigots have it all tied up, from RTE to AIB. It would be nice if they'd just enjoy their ill gotten gains, and shut up.

    You come across as a very sick man indeed. Your hatred of middle class people is apparent but your blaming them for the upper landlord class’s sins is delusional and dare I say it hysterical.

    No doubt you’re one of the upper class outsiders who has never mixed with people from working class backgrounds and are trying to muddy the lines by painting the middle as the evil. You sad sad man.

    No doubt you have never had a beer with a worker and believe the best way to advance yourself in this world is to post bile on online message boards to try and turn people against one another.

    It’s not hard to spot a self entitled bigot on here - look for the ones who blame everyone except themselves for Ireland’s problems. Look for the ones who sow hatred and division between people. You are quite transparent and quite juvenile that you’ve never attempted to walk a mile in another persons shoes. You sad sad man.


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    #119
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    but they dont, somebody on 28.5k pays 4k in tax for the year total if theyve no dependents or anything. even out of that 960k people, less than half them are even near that amount of pay, if you have one lad on 28.5k and he's living with his missus on the social (not married) , he's contributing 4k and she's pulling out almost 10k. Thats an economically detracting household.


    If you have someone on 28K with 2 kids,they are better off on the dole

    This person working is effectively giving econmy 14K by your figures?? (10K dole and 4K lost tax,the famous much maligned 50% tax rate)


    The low income workers in this state get the rawest deal of all,when you have childcare workers who cant afford to send their own kids to childcare,something seriously wrong and needs chamging,...there is why people are votin enmass for the shinners


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    #120
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you have someone on 28K with 2 kids,they are better off on the dole

    This person working is effectively giving econmy 14K by your figures?? (10K dole and 4K lost tax,the famous much maligned 50% tax rate)


    The low income workers in this state get the rawest deal of all,when you have childcare workers who cant afford to send their own kids to childcare,something seriously wrong and needs chamging,...there is why people are votin enmass for the shinners

    ???? those are not the rates at all....

    the workers on 30-90k a year suffer the most in this state, its a baron bracket where the state wont help you with anything , half of your money is stolen in taxation and you cant afford to buy a house anywhere near where your professional career is based. In that bracket its all childcare costs, having to run a car, monthly bus tickets, private rent with no HAP, paying every fee and charge imaginable and every single politician you could vote for is gunning for what little you have left in your pocket.


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    #121
    Better Than Christ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭Better Than Christ


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    im not sure if its a comprehension issue or youre being intentionally obtuse, my consistent point the entire time is that we have 960,000 people contributing very little to our economy because of successively bad policies which have narrowed the tax net. A vote for SF/PbP etc.. was easy for those people to make because they have no skin in the game and don't stand to lose out. Its a vote with a hand out to get 'free' stuff without thinking who's paying for it.

    its the exact same as if everyone in the country making over 30k voted for a party that was going to cut off welfare, they wouldn't be losing out but it would be a selfish vote that didn't consider the other side of the coin.

    a vote for SF/PbP is a selfish decision that is another knife in the back of every working professional and skilled tradesperson who does the economic heavy lifting here.

    What started out as a thread attacking the unemployed has evolved into a series of attacks on people who are employed, but don't earn enough to deserve your respect. The only thing consistent about you is your desire to punch downwards all the time. Absolutely repugnant.

    If every person in a low paid job decided to down tools tomorrow morning, seeking a living wage, you'd soon find out how much they contribute to the economy. You'd soon find out how much of the heavy lifting they do.

    A working person who votes for SF or a left-wing party isn't looking for free stuff. They're just no longer prepared to vote for parties that only look after the interests of their bosses and landlords.


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