The SF vote was part of a class war against Middle Ireland

Fred Cryton

Very interesting article in the Times about where SF transfers went:



https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/sinn-f%C3%A9in-supporters-not-interested-in-a-left-alliance-or-coalition-with-fianna-f%C3%A1il-1.4196665


What this shows above all else is that the SF vote was largely a strike against Middle Class Ireland. In Dublin, almost half of SF transfers went to PBP/Socialist party. Another 23 percent went to left leaning independents. Only 5 percent of SF transfers went to Labour and only 12 percent to SocDems, who presumably the Shinners see as more middle class.



The correct way to view this election is through a class war lens. Not through a policy lens of housing and health. Particularly in Dublin. If it was about housing and health, then Labour and SocDems would be getting way more SF transfers.



SF won 80% of the vote in Darndale. Now this is an area that is almost 100% social or taxpayer supported in some way. Few voters are renting on the open market there. So don't try to convince me they care about rent. Their SF vote was not about policy. If getting a free house for their kids was all important, they would be transferring more to Labour and SocDems.



Hope the semi-intelligent voters who thought they'd punt on SF know they're in the company of the parents of those lovely feral street kids burning cars in Darndale.

RustyNut

Or maybe people just want change.

Fred Cryton

RustyNut wrote: »

Or maybe people just want change.

Shinners want a change to Venezuela judging by the SF/PBP alliance they seem to be voting for.

Plumbthedepths

It has been most enjoyable to watch the OP and others have a collective meltdown since the election.
What's this now OP, your 10th thread bemoaning SF. At least you dropped the millennial reference.

Why would anyone give Labour the steam off their sh*t?

Social Democrats would have gotten one of my preferences if they had ran someone in my constituency but they're the least organised party in the country. They only ran in something like seven counties. They won six seats. They did all right.

Thelonious Monk

We'll all be running crying back to FG now anyway with the new corona recession

The sheer nuttiness of that post, its similar to the reaction when Trump( an odious individual ) got elected.

David McWilliams has an article in the Irish times two weeks ago saying it was the middle class that got SF elected.

As with most things you can put any spin you like on it, but the truth is another matter.

nigeldaniel

There are a lot of angry people who just like to lash out as they find coping with the modern world a bit too much. A small number even have secret fantasies of chaos and mayhem. See the chaos theory.

Eric Cartman

Absolutely, this election was a vote by those with their hand out to get more free stuff , I do helieve many of them don’t fathom how these things are paid for but for those that did, it was a vindictive strike against those who contribute most to our society, the middle class and high earners. A vite for sinn fein / pbp is a level of self serving selfishness that FG voters often get accused of, but only the left demonstrate in reality.

jd1983

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Very interesting article in the Times about where SF transfers went:



https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/sinn-f%C3%A9in-supporters-not-interested-in-a-left-alliance-or-coalition-with-fianna-f%C3%A1il-1.4196665


What this shows above all else is that the SF vote was largely a strike against Middle Class Ireland. In Dublin, almost half of SF transfers went to PBP/Socialist party. Another 23 percent went to left leaning independents. Only 5 percent of SF transfers went to Labour and only 12 percent to SocDems, who presumably the Shinners see as more middle class.



The correct way to view this election is through a class war lens. Not through a policy lens of housing and health. Particularly in Dublin. If it was about housing and health, then Labour and SocDems would be getting way more SF transfers.



SF won 80% of the vote in Darndale. Now this is an area that is almost 100% social or taxpayer supported in some way. Few voters are renting on the open market there. So don't try to convince me they care about rent. Their SF vote was not about policy. If getting a free house for their kids was all important, they would be transferring more to Labour and SocDems.



Hope the semi-intelligent voters who thought they'd punt on SF know they're in the company of the parents of those lovely feral street kids burning cars in Darndale.

"There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning."
Warren Buffett

By the way OP, can you please define what you mean by middle Ireland? Is it similar to George Hook's definition when he describes leafy middle class Foxrock. Despite the fact that it probably takes someone to be in the top 0.2% of earners to have a chance of buying in Foxrock.

maccored

it was partly a rebellion against the two parties that seem to care more for business and less for people. quite simple really.

Hope the semi-intelligent voters who thought they'd punt on SF know they're in the company of the parents of those lovely feral street kids burning cars in Darndale.

its obvious theres plenty of 'semi intelligent' people who didnt vote SF. Many of them seem to like starting threads on boards about those who did.

Mad_maxx

jd1983 wrote: »

"There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning."
Warren Buffett

By the way OP, can you please define what you mean by middle Ireland? Is it similar to George Hook's definition when he describes leafy middle class Foxrock. Despite the fact that it probably takes someone to be in the top 0.2% of earners to have a chance of buying in Foxrock.

what exactly do the american 1% have to do with the current situation in middle ireland ?

quotes from famous people are great and all but where is the connection exactly here ?

thenightman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely, this election was a vote by those with their hand out to get more free stuff , I do helieve many of them don’t fathom how these things are paid for but for those that did, it was a vindictive strike against those who contribute most to our society, the middle class and high earners. A vite for sinn fein / pbp is a level of self serving selfishness that FG voters often get accused of, but only the left demonstrate in reality.

I work hard, and have been getting screwed by a combo of FF/FG since I finished school in 2005. I got an education and have been promoted several times in my career. As it stands I have no hope of being able to own my own home in the city I'm from while paying exorbitant rents that FF/FG have encouraged. I figured things cannot be any worse under SF so gave them my vote, as a lot of people did in my Dublin mid west constituency.

I think the reason SF did well is easily explained; people are fed up of the same old platitudes trotted out by the two main parties. The disconnect and poorly masked disdain ministers like Eoghan Murphy showed for people struggling didn't help either.

All your other points is just your usual welfare bashing, right wing nonsense.

quokula

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It has been most enjoyable to watch the OP and others have a collective meltdown since the election.
What's this now OP, your 10th thread bemoaning SF. At least you dropped the millennial reference.

I think this sums up the attitude of the shinners and goes a long way to prove the OP right - more interested in getting a dig in on other people than doing anything constructive.

James Brown

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Shinners want a change to Venezuela judging by the SF/PBP alliance they seem to be voting for.

Still throwing the toys out of the pram.
SF aren't the issue. It could have been any other party. SF got the votes because they were next on the list if you wanted to bypass FF/FG.
The longer FF/FG whinge the better. Other parties will rise up and we'll have more options.
A positive for democracy.

It's the environment created by FF/FG that swung the votes.

The worst thing that could happen is FF/FG reassessing themselves and pretending they changed. Keep up the conspiracy theories lads

"Class warfare"...what is this, the Paris Commune of 1871? OP has a tenuous grip on reality.

McMurphy

quokula wrote: »

I think this sums up the attitude of the shinners and goes a long way to prove the OP right - more interested in getting a dig in on other people than doing anything constructive.

I do not believe that the poster you've quoted is a "shinner" so that's only an assumption on your part, however it is a valid observation they made.

The rest of your post, considering the OPs track record on threads they've both started and posted in makes your post irony level = Alanis Morissette.

Eric Cartman

thenightman wrote: »

I work hard, and have been getting screwed by a combo of FF/FG since I finished school in 2005. I got an education and have been promoted several times in my career. As it stands I have no hope of being able to own my own home in the city I'm from while paying exorbitant rents that FF/FG have encouraged. I figured things cannot be any worse under SF so gave them my vote, as a lot of people did in my Dublin mid west constituency.

I think the reason SF did well is easily explained; people are fed up of the same old platitudes trotted out by the two main parties. The disconnect and poorly masked disdain ministers like Eoghan Murphy showed for people struggling didn't help either.

All your other points is just your usual welfare bashing, right wing nonsense.

You pretty much have no hope of that anyway anymore, and SF are only going to give those homes to people who have never worked. There are no affordable homes coming to dublin city and thats a reality you are going to have to come to, we are roughly the same age by school leaving year , SF will not fix this, nobody will, the hest you could hope for is a fast track on high rise buildings and being able to rent forever a 2 bed apartment in a 25 storey block in whats currently a bad part of the north inner city living beside swathes of social tenants.

RustyNut

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely, this election was a vote by those with their hand out to get more free stuff , I do helieve many of them don’t fathom how these things are paid for but for those that did, it was a vindictive strike against those who contribute most to our society, the middle class and high earners. A vite for sinn fein / pbp is a level of self serving selfishness that FG voters often get accused of, but only the left demonstrate in reality.

The something for nothing class.

The High Court has approved personal insolvency arrangements allowing musician Frank McNamara and his wife barrister Theresa Lowe write-off almost €3 million of their debts

A large part of it is based on..well they can't be any worse than FF FG and possibly not taught through and no matter what way FG spin it the arrogance of the likes of Eoin Murphy did not help.

I have a relative who's a partner has very left-wing views she say of him he'd be the first one lined up and shot after the revolution god love him, but at least he has principles.

Eric Cartman

RustyNut wrote: »

The something for nothing class.

1 case of a professional middle class couple defaulting on debts against private lenders does not justify or excuse the hundreds of thousands voting to extort the taxpayer for free gafs

Yurt2

Internet angrymen lose rag because the election didn't go their way thread #2489

*exits thread before very clever hard-working boy faction descend*

RustyNut

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1 case of a professional middle class couple defaulting on debts against private lenders does not justify or excuse the hundreds of thousands voting to extort the taxpayer for free gafs

Fcuking democracy wha.

Fred Cryton

thenightman wrote: »

I work hard, and have been getting screwed by a combo of FF/FG since I finished school in 2005. I got an education and have been promoted several times in my career. As it stands I have no hope of being able to own my own home in the city I'm from while paying exorbitant rents that FF/FG have encouraged. I figured things cannot be any worse under SF so gave them my vote, as a lot of people did in my Dublin mid west constituency.

I think the reason SF did well is easily explained; people are fed up of the same old platitudes trotted out by the two main parties. The disconnect and poorly masked disdain ministers like Eoghan Murphy showed for people struggling didn't help either.

All your other points is just your usual welfare bashing, right wing nonsense.

If you "figured things couldn't be any worse under SF" then you really were ignorant of them when you cast your vote. How does economic collapse sound and saying goodbye to your job never mind promotions. And a party that celebrates Garda killers in charge. Yeah, sure can't get any worse. Try to educate yourself next time you cast your vote.

jd1983

Mad_maxx wrote: »

what exactly do the american 1% have to do with the current situation in middle ireland ?

quotes from famous people are great and all but where is the connection exactly here ?

I never said anything about the American 1% in my post, the top 1% of earners in this state is what was meant. I would have thought this would have been obvious but the point I was making is that considering places like Foxrock as middle class is ridiculous. Residents of Foxrock tend to be the rich or upper class.

I thought the buffet quote was an interesting observation by one of the world wealthiest men. The quote was about class warfare on a thread about class warfare, surely the connection is blatantly obvious.

pjohnson

The best part of the election has been the tears of the FFG's.

That and the resounding thrashing that the right wing loons got.

Yurt2

Fred Cryton wrote: »

If you "figured things couldn't be any worse under SF" then you really were ignorant of them when you cast your vote. How does economic collapse sound and saying goodbye to your job never mind promotions. And a party that celebrates Garda killers in charge. Yeah, sure can't get any worse. Try to educate yourself next time you cast your vote.

An important point to note about this post. Fred is very educated. He knows economic things very hugely, and knows when everyone will lose their job. He even has heard of Venezuela. I bet you people couldn't find it on a map.

Be like Fred.

Muahahaha

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It has been most enjoyable to watch the OP and others have a collective meltdown since the election.
What's this now OP, your 10th thread bemoaning SF. At least you dropped the millennial reference.

First it was civil war we were going to have for the OP, now its class warfare. Its amazing how an election defeat can bring out the war mongering in some posters. Eoghan Harris predicted ethnic cleansing, this thread is in a similar vein.

Bowie wrote: »

It's the environment created by FF/FG that swung the votes.

The worst thing that could happen is FF/FG reassessing themselves and pretending they changed. Keep up the conspiracy theories lads

A month after the election and FFG and their supporters still arent getting this salient point. It was their policies that made Sinn Fein electable. Many posters are still in the denial phase on this fact.

Tony EH

Fred Cryton
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 93



There must be a better way to combat you re-reg trolls on this site.

Brendan Bendar

Tony EH wrote: »

Fred Cryton
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 93



There must be a better way to combat you re-reg trolls on this site.

Kind of playing the man not the ball Tony.

Tut tut......

suicide_circus

dont worry OP, they still havent got into government. the angryman voters may have to do it again at another election.

piplip87

When it's all said and done FF and FG will form a stable government to lead us for the next five years or so. I'd feel much more confident with Martain and Varadkar at the wheel, than Marylou backed up by Paul Murphy and co for one inevitable recession about to hit.

BanditLuke

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Very interesting article in the Times about where SF transfers went:



https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/sinn-f%C3%A9in-supporters-not-interested-in-a-left-alliance-or-coalition-with-fianna-f%C3%A1il-1.4196665


What this shows above all else is that the SF vote was largely a strike against Middle Class Ireland. In Dublin, almost half of SF transfers went to PBP/Socialist party. Another 23 percent went to left leaning independents. Only 5 percent of SF transfers went to Labour and only 12 percent to SocDems, who presumably the Shinners see as more middle class.



The correct way to view this election is through a class war lens. Not through a policy lens of housing and health. Particularly in Dublin. If it was about housing and health, then Labour and SocDems would be getting way more SF transfers.



SF won 80% of the vote in Darndale. Now this is an area that is almost 100% social or taxpayer supported in some way. Few voters are renting on the open market there. So don't try to convince me they care about rent. Their SF vote was not about policy. If getting a free house for their kids was all important, they would be transferring more to Labour and SocDems.



Hope the semi-intelligent voters who thought they'd punt on SF know they're in the company of the parents of those lovely feral street kids burning cars in Darndale.

What "free houses" OP?

BanditLuke

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1 case of a professional middle class couple defaulting on debts against private lenders does not justify or excuse the hundreds of thousands voting to extort the taxpayer for free gafs

Any links to these free houses?

Grab All Association

Right said Fred, we need another SF thread

all about the mane

mariaalice wrote: »

The sheer nuttiness of that post, its similar to the reaction when Trump( an odious individual ) got elected.

David McWilliams has an article in the Irish times two weeks ago saying it was the middle class that got SF elected.

As with most things you can put any spin you like on it, but the truth is another matter.

There are a lot of similarities between trump and Mary loo alright

Brendan Bendar

BanditLuke wrote: »

What "free houses" OP?

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-5-4956180-Jan2020/


Maybe it’s these ones...

fergus1001

Auguste Comte

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We'll all be running crying back to FG now anyway with the new corona recession

Yea, the party that put the boy minister, a failed journalism student with no real world achievement and the anti Midas touch, everything he touches turns to sh1te, in charge of the health department.

What could possibly go wrong.

Greyfox

piplip87 wrote: »

When it's all said and done FF and FG will form a stable government to lead us for the next five years or so. I'd feel much more confident with Martain and Varadkar at the wheel, than Marylou backed up by Paul Murphy and co for one inevitable recession about to hit.

Yes it looks like it will be a FF/FG government. This just means SF's popularity will increase again as everyone with common sense knows FF&FG together are not going to build enough houses

Skylinehead

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely, this election was a vote by those with their hand out to get more free stuff

Says the man with his hand out constantly for tax cuts

BanditLuke

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-5-4956180-Jan2020/


Maybe it’s these ones...

Ah grand i thought you said free, if you pay rent it's not free. Cheers.

suicide_circus

BanditLuke wrote: »

Ah grand i thought you said free, if you pay rent it's not free. Cheers.

well if you have never made a prsi contribution, its pretty damn free

Auguste Comte

Eric Cartman wrote: »

SF are only going to give those homes to people who have never worked.

Would you be good enough to post a link to the policy that states this or are you just ranting?

Greyfox

BanditLuke wrote: »

Ah grand i thought you said free, if you pay rent it's not free. Cheers.

And if you don't bother paying it's a free house, lots of people in Ireland getting a free house or getting one for peanuts.

Brendan Bendar

BanditLuke wrote: »

Ah grand i thought you said free, if you pay rent it's not free. Cheers.

Sure sure Luke, you owe millions in rent, you don’t bother paying it, but it’s not free, you just don’t pay.

I get it now, it’s not free, but you don’t pay....Cheers.


Good lad.

BanditLuke

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Sure sure Luke, you owe millions in rent, you don’t bother paying it, but it’s not free, you just don’t pay.

I get it now, it’s not free, but you don’t pay....Cheers.


Good lad.

No i do pay, never missed a week tbh.

Good boy yourself.

BanditLuke

suicide_circus wrote: »

well if you have never made a prsi contribution, its pretty damn free

Which i have every week since i left school 29 years ago. Like i said they aren't free houses.

KrustyUCC

What about those who don't pay?

Or those who's only income is provided by the state?

For a majority of people those are classes as free houses

The miniscule rent is only a payment back to the state

suicide_circus

BanditLuke wrote: »

Which i have every week since i left school 29 years ago. Like i said they aren't free houses.

not commenting on you personally. anyone who has never made an prsi contributions and lives in a house provided by the state is in receipt of a free house.

growleaves

When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

No one has demonstrated what share of SF's vote came from social welfare recipients - nor what share of other parties' votes - and what came from working people.

But lets draw definite conclusions from our ignorance.