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The SF vote was part of a class war against Middle Ireland

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    #32
    piplip87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭piplip87


    When it's all said and done FF and FG will form a stable government to lead us for the next five years or so. I'd feel much more confident with Martain and Varadkar at the wheel, than Marylou backed up by Paul Murphy and co for one inevitable recession about to hit.


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    #33
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    Fred Cryton wrote: »
    Very interesting article in the Times about where SF transfers went:



    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/sinn-f%C3%A9in-supporters-not-interested-in-a-left-alliance-or-coalition-with-fianna-f%C3%A1il-1.4196665


    What this shows above all else is that the SF vote was largely a strike against Middle Class Ireland. In Dublin, almost half of SF transfers went to PBP/Socialist party. Another 23 percent went to left leaning independents. Only 5 percent of SF transfers went to Labour and only 12 percent to SocDems, who presumably the Shinners see as more middle class.



    The correct way to view this election is through a class war lens. Not through a policy lens of housing and health. Particularly in Dublin. If it was about housing and health, then Labour and SocDems would be getting way more SF transfers.



    SF won 80% of the vote in Darndale. Now this is an area that is almost 100% social or taxpayer supported in some way. Few voters are renting on the open market there. So don't try to convince me they care about rent. Their SF vote was not about policy. If getting a free house for their kids was all important, they would be transferring more to Labour and SocDems.



    Hope the semi-intelligent voters who thought they'd punt on SF know they're in the company of the parents of those lovely feral street kids burning cars in Darndale.

    What "free houses" OP?


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    #34
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    1 case of a professional middle class couple defaulting on debts against private lenders does not justify or excuse the hundreds of thousands voting to extort the taxpayer for free gafs

    Any links to these free houses?


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    #35
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    Right said Fred, we need another SF thread


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    #36
    all about the mane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The sheer nuttiness of that post, its similar to the reaction when Trump( an odious individual ) got elected.

    David McWilliams has an article in the Irish times two weeks ago saying it was the middle class that got SF elected.

    As with most things you can put any spin you like on it, but the truth is another matter.

    There are a lot of similarities between trump and Mary loo alright


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    #37
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,113 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    What "free houses" OP?

    https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-5-4956180-Jan2020/


    Maybe it’s these ones...


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    #38
    fergus1001
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    cheezburger-funny-the-simpsons-lemons-3hxfrKFUxHk2Y


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    #39
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    We'll all be running crying back to FG now anyway with the new corona recession

    Yea, the party that put the boy minister, a failed journalism student with no real world achievement and the anti Midas touch, everything he touches turns to sh1te, in charge of the health department.

    What could possibly go wrong.


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    #40
    Greyfox
    Registered Users Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    piplip87 wrote: »
    When it's all said and done FF and FG will form a stable government to lead us for the next five years or so. I'd feel much more confident with Martain and Varadkar at the wheel, than Marylou backed up by Paul Murphy and co for one inevitable recession about to hit.

    Yes it looks like it will be a FF/FG government. This just means SF's popularity will increase again as everyone with common sense knows FF&FG together are not going to build enough houses


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    #41
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Absolutely, this election was a vote by those with their hand out to get more free stuff

    Says the man with his hand out constantly for tax cuts :D


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    #42
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-5-4956180-Jan2020/


    Maybe it’s these ones...

    Ah grand i thought you said free, if you pay rent it's not free. Cheers.


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    #43
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    Ah grand i thought you said free, if you pay rent it's not free. Cheers.
    well if you have never made a prsi contribution, its pretty damn free


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    #44
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    SF are only going to give those homes to people who have never worked.

    Would you be good enough to post a link to the policy that states this or are you just ranting?


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    #45
    Greyfox
    Registered Users Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    Ah grand i thought you said free, if you pay rent it's not free. Cheers.

    And if you don't bother paying it's a free house, lots of people in Ireland getting a free house or getting one for peanuts.


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    #46
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,113 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    Ah grand i thought you said free, if you pay rent it's not free. Cheers.

    Sure sure Luke, you owe millions in rent, you don’t bother paying it, but it’s not free, you just don’t pay.

    I get it now, it’s not free, but you don’t pay....Cheers.


    Good lad.


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    #47
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Sure sure Luke, you owe millions in rent, you don’t bother paying it, but it’s not free, you just don’t pay.

    I get it now, it’s not free, but you don’t pay....Cheers.


    Good lad.

    No i do pay, never missed a week tbh.

    Good boy yourself.


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    #48
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    well if you have never made a prsi contribution, its pretty damn free

    Which i have every week since i left school 29 years ago. Like i said they aren't free houses.


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    #49
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    What about those who don't pay?

    Or those who's only income is provided by the state?

    For a majority of people those are classes as free houses

    The miniscule rent is only a payment back to the state


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    #50
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    Which i have every week since i left school 29 years ago. Like i said they aren't free houses.
    not commenting on you personally. anyone who has never made an prsi contributions and lives in a house provided by the state is in receipt of a free house.


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    #51
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,720 ✭✭✭growleaves


    When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

    No one has demonstrated what share of SF's vote came from social welfare recipients - nor what share of other parties' votes - and what came from working people.

    But lets draw definite conclusions from our ignorance.


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    #52
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,720 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Absolutely, this election was a vote by those with their hand out to get more free stuff , I do helieve many of them don’t fathom how these things are paid for but for those that did, it was a vindictive strike against those who contribute most to our society, the middle class and high earners. A vite for sinn fein / pbp is a level of self serving selfishness that FG voters often get accused of, but only the left demonstrate in reality.

    So you think 'contributions to society' are entirely material / financial, and therefore the biggest benefactor to society is simply whoever has paid the most money into the exchequer?

    This shows the extreme material reductionism of our society.


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    #53
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,720 ✭✭✭growleaves


    nigeldaniel wrote: »
    There are a lot of angry people who just like to lash out as they find coping with the modern world a bit too much. A small number even have secret fantasies of chaos and mayhem. See the chaos theory.

    Voting for a social democratic party isn't lashing out.

    Ironically since the election several posters who support either FG or economic liberalism generally have disclosed their fantasies of the economy crashing and said it would serve people right for voting for SF.

    One guy said he was going to go to Malta and to hell with this country. Another guy said he hoped the State would run out of resources and go back into recession.

    All these posts received likes from the usual crowd - Eric Cartman etc

    These posters are not even hiding their vindictive wish for revenge in the form of economic chaos - then they project that on to others.


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    #54
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    growleaves wrote: »
    Voting for a social democratic party isn't lashing out.

    Ironically since the election several posters who support either FG or economic liberalism generally have disclosed their fantasies of the economy crashing and said it would serve people right for voting for SF.

    One guy said he was going to go to Malta and to hell with this country. Another guy said he hoped the State would run out of resources and go back into recession.

    All these posts received likes from the usual crowd - Eric Cartman etc

    These posters are not even hiding their vindictive wish for revenge in the form of economic chaos - then they project that on to others.

    You could say similar about SF supporters a not-insignificant amount have a nasty vicious dislike of the establishment huge chips on their shoulders, while not being really sure what the establishment is exactly.

    I know someone who was at the local count and the reaction when the SF candidate wone was not what you would calll edifying.


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    #55
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    mariaalice wrote: »
    You could say similar about SF supporters a not-insignificant amount have a nasty vicious dislike of the establishment huge chips on their shoulders, while not being really sure what the establishment is exactly.

    I know someone who was at the local count and the reaction when the SF candidate wone was not what you would calll edifying.


    Irish people have a problem with looking each other in the eye and discussing political and economic problems rationally and dispassionately without resorting to insulting the other person and their perceived standing in society.


    I honestly don't think the FG types were psychologically ready to 'lose' the election in the manner they did. Some of the guff out of their mouths post-election has been nothing short of garbage.


    Some SF folks fall afoul of this instinct as well, but I've noticed it's the 'clever boys' who think very highly of themselves who are having a harder time keeping it together. Quite frankly, a lot of them are disrespectful and outright hostile to a large swathe of the population, and it took a watershed election for the mask to slip. Everyone is a loser and a sponger now.


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    #56
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    growleaves wrote: »
    When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

    No one has demonstrated what share of SF's vote came from social welfare recipients - nor what share of other parties' votes - and what came from working people.

    But lets draw definite conclusions from our ignorance.

    Just on that the Irish Times Ipsos MRBI exit poll had data on it breaking down the vote by social class. I only got one look at it before it went behind a paywall but irrc there was some age groups of ABC1s who voted for SF in bigger numbers than they did for FG and FF. Not by much but still very notable that SF outpolled them among people who earn the most.

    If someone has a sub maybe they can bring up the data from here and post it.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/detailed-election-2020-exit-poll-results-how-voters-answered-15-questions-1.4167016?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fdetailed-election-2020-exit-poll-results-how-voters-answered-15-questions-1.4167016


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    #57
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Just on that the Irish Times Ipsos MRBI exit poll had data on it breaking down the vote by social class. I only got one look at it before it went behind a paywall but irrc there was some age groups of ABC1s who voted for SF in bigger numbers than they did for FG and FF. Not by much but still very notable that SF outpolled them among people who earn the most.

    If someone has a sub maybe they can bring up the data from here and post it.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/detailed-election-2020-exit-poll-results-how-voters-answered-15-questions-1.4167016?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fdetailed-election-2020-exit-poll-results-how-voters-answered-15-questions-1.4167016

    No No NO, IT was only spongers and miscreants who didn't vote for FFG.


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    #58
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    RustyNut wrote: »
    No No NO, IT was only spongers and miscreants who didn't vote for FFG.

    :D Its certainly the narrative being feebly spun by lots of their supporters on here even though the exit poll data showed SF outpolled FF and FG in all age categories from 18 to 65.

    Which is why it would be great if someone could post the data from that exit poll, like I said I only saw it briefly and stand to be corrected but I remember raising my eyebrows upon seeing that certain age groups of the wealthiest ABC1 voters voted for SF ahead of FF and FG.

    If Im not mistaken on that then it is really significant. It means people in the professional classes like accountants, teachers, doctors, etc voted left to SF, something that nobody would have thought possible or even predicted just 5 weeks ago.


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    #59
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    :D Its certainly the narrative being feebly spun by lots of their supporters on here even though the exit poll data showed SF outpolled FF and FG in all age categories from 18 to 65.

    Which is why it would be great if someone could post the data from that exit poll, like I said I only saw it briefly and stand to be corrected but I remember raising my eyebrows upon seeing that certain age groups of the wealthiest ABC1 voters voted for SF ahead of FF and FG.

    If Im not mistaken on that then it is really significant. It means people in the professional classes like accountants, teachers, doctors, etc voted left to SF, something that nobody would have thought possible or even predicted just 5 weeks ago.


    The largest bulge in the Irish population pyramid is the 35-44 age group. This is the age-group where the recession had the largest detrimental effect in what should have been the prime of their working lives, and not enough of them have felt the benefits of the upswing, in a hell of a lot of cases, this age group are experiencing declining living standards despite runaway GDP.

    Both FF and FG are culpable, and who could blame this age group for abandoning them en masse?


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    #60
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    growleaves wrote: »
    Voting for a social democratic party isn't lashing out.

    Ironically since the election several posters who support either FG or economic liberalism generally have disclosed their fantasies of the economy crashing and said it would serve people right for voting for SF.

    One guy said he was going to go to Malta and to hell with this country. Another guy said he hoped the State would run out of resources and go back into recession.

    All these posts received likes from the usual crowd - Eric Cartman etc

    These posters are not even hiding their vindictive wish for revenge in the form of economic chaos - then they project that on to others.

    You're only here a wet week, how do you know who or what the usual crowd are?

    Are you the 2024 version of "I voted for FG/FF in 2020 and felt so left down that I am voting for SF this time out"?


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    #61
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,195 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    People utterly fed up of FF and FG and for a lack of another viable alternative more people than normal voted for SF seemingly pretty regardless of who they were running


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