Court summons but Gardai are wrong with this!

ThumbTaxed · 18-02-2019 12:19pm #1

Hi there,

Wife today got a summons to go to court. This is a new chapter in our life it seems!

She got caught for speeding back in October and was asked to present herself to the local station within 10 days with the insurance certificate and licence. She did that and also paid the driving fine.

No sweat.

However, a summons for a court hearing in April came today saying she failed to present herself within the 10 days.

The thing is, she 100% did do what was requested but the guard obviously fecked up on recording it. She rang the station and, while I wont mention the rudeness on the phone, the overall summary is that she should write to the Super Intendant to explain the circumstances. In that letter they asked for proof that she visited (a receipt), the date and time she called and a description of the guard.

Now I am sorry but this is ridiculous. She doesn't know which day in November it was an even though it was lunch time that could be between 12.45 and 14.15 so not a small window. She asked can she visit to check the CCTV and was told, quite rudely, that it wouldn't be available.

I know mistakes happen but this is ridiculous.

Granted the letter may resolve this but assuming it doesn't what can one do. She needs Gardaí vetting for work so visiting a court isn't ideal. Also why is it on us to proof the visit - is there not as assumption that calling when asked was enough. She remembers it took so long that the guard apologised for the delay. Well what the hell was he doing so!!

Ah, so frustrating.

CosmicFool · 18-02-2019 12:25pm

She's paid the fine. (Thats all they really worry about) Go to court. Tell them what happened. They'll strike it out I reckon.

NUTLEY BOY · 18-02-2019 12:47pm

This kind of thing actually happens by times and is a pain in the face when it means a totally unnecessary court appearance.

Unfortunately, simply calling to a Garda station does not evidence the actual transaction that took place. Yes, I do believe your wife.

As the summons was taken out and served it would need to be sorted out in court even if only to have it dismissed / struck out on consent. DO NOT ignore it.

baldshin · 18-02-2019 12:54pm

Call the Garda on the summons and explain all this to them. They might ask you to come in again and show them your documents, and more than likely then arrange to have the case struck out without you needing to appear.

Seth Brundle · 18-02-2019 12:55pm

Is there any knowledge of how much this kind of error costs the state each year through court and garda time, etc?

spurious · 18-02-2019 1:01pm

Why are these sort of things not handled by civilian staff?

Does it need someone with Garda training to look at a licence, record it/whatever they do?
Likewise stamping forms for passports etc..

ThumbTaxed · 18-02-2019 1:12pm

Hi guys. Thanks for your comments.

As I said I understand mistakes happen and I also know people can be dishonest so I can see why the Gardai may not believe us.

baldshin · 18-02-2019 1:12pm

spurious wrote: »

Why are these sort of things not handled by civilian staff?

Does it need someone with Garda training to look at a licence, record it/whatever they do?
Likewise stamping forms for passports etc..

The Road Traffic Act specifically mentions that documents must be produced to a member of An Garda Siochana, so civilians couldn't do this role unless the legislation changed.

RFOLEY1990 · 18-02-2019 1:16pm

where's the money trail?

Mickb · 18-02-2019 1:27pm

Hi,

Very similar situation happened to me years ago.

I used to drive a E30 BMW was a magnet to be stopped. Used to be stopped so regularly (couple of time a year) just though nothing of it.
Generally stopped all the paper work was in date, so would be sent on my way.

One evening was asked to produce as part of the stop. So did so, in different area to where I was stopped.
For what ever reason, was recorded in station 'log book' but was not transferred to on-line system.

So four court summons were issued to me, no tax/nct not producing tax/nct.

So had to go to court. Told judge no idea why I am here, I produced as ask. Had all my original paper work with me, all well in date when stopped.

Will never forget the judge asking the guard why they were wasting the courts and my time on this matter.

So it was all cleared up and never heard any more about it.

The real issue was the day off work to attend the court.

If all your paperwork from the time of the stop are up-to date I'd guess that it would all be cleared up by the judge.

MiCk B. :-)

ThumbTaxed · 18-02-2019 8:55pm

Mickb wrote: »

Hi,

Very similar situation happened to me years ago.

I used to drive a E30 BMW was a magnet to be stopped. Used to be stopped so regularly (couple of time a year) just though nothing of it.
Generally stopped all the paper work was in date, so would be sent on my way.

One evening was asked to produce as part of the stop. So did so, in different area to where I was stopped.
For what ever reason, was recorded in station 'log book' but was not transferred to on-line system.

So four court summons were issued to me, no tax/nct not producing tax/nct.

So had to go to court. Told judge no idea why I am here, I produced as ask. Had all my original paper work with me, all well in date when stopped.

Will never forget the judge asking the guard why they were wasting the courts and my time on this matter.

So it was all cleared up and never heard any more about it.

The real issue was the day off work to attend the court.

If all your paperwork from the time of the stop are up-to date I'd guess that it would all be cleared up by the judge.

MiCk B. :-)

Thanks for this.

Does anyone know if a court visit and/or a summons comes up on guarda vetting forms?

Mick B... She has no paperwork other than payment of the fine. She didn't get a receipt or anything signed when she presented her insurance details etc. She didn't think she would have to. Hindsight and all that.

ThumbTaxed · 18-02-2019 9:00pm

Hi all,

Update my wife found a receipt. She is so good at keeping stuff!

She is going to the station tomorrow requesting an apology. The dumbass put her date of birth in wrongly.

18-02-2019 9:00pm

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Thanks for this.

Does anyone know if a court visit and/or a summons comes up on guarda vetting forms?
.

No. They're only interested in items which may relate to the job you are doing and which might put vulnerable people in danger. A speeding offence does not make you likely to abuse an elderly patient or a child in a creche.

lbc2019 · 18-02-2019 9:04pm

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Thanks for this.

Does anyone know if a court visit and/or a summons comes up on guarda vetting forms?

Mick B... She has no paperwork other than payment of the fine. She didn't get a receipt or anything signed when she presented her insurance details etc. She didn't think she would have to. Hindsight and all that.

If it is Struck out no.

unattendedbag · 18-02-2019 9:58pm

A summons means she has to attend that court on the states date and time and all other subsequent dates until the case is finished. Even a superintendent can't direct a person no to attend. For the sake of thoroughness I'd turn up with receipt, cert and licence and make sure it gets stuck out. Depending on what part of the country you're in be district court judge could be in a mood and issue a warrant or convict in absence.

Summonses for non production are usually issued automatically by the fixed charge office in Thurles. After the 10 days they do a quick search and if they can't find a valid record of production then the summons gets created. That's why receipts are critical as a lot of these end up in court when they shouldn't.

Seth Brundle · 18-02-2019 10:12pm

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Update my wife found a receipt. She is so good at keeping stuff!

Is that the receipt that she wasn't given?

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

She didn't get a receipt or anything signed when she presented her insurance details etc.

Mickb · 19-02-2019 10:57am

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

.............

Mick B... She has no paperwork ..........

Hi,

For me the paperwork was tax / NCT / insurance details which were all in date when stopped. So judge could see no reason why I was asked to produce and why I wouldn't have.

MiCk B. :-)

Nekarsulm · 19-02-2019 1:14pm

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Thanks for this.

Does anyone know if a court visit and/or a summons comes up on guarda vetting forms?
t.

Not a problem for regular Garda Vetting ( for your general job, or for working in a charity or something like the Scouts, local school)
But if the job in any way involves working in a Garda Station as a civil servant or any branch of Justice or Customs & Excise, you employment will be rejected.
These comes under the heading of "Special vetting".

lbc2019 · 19-02-2019 1:24pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Thanks for this.

Does anyone know if a court visit and/or a summons comes up on guarda vetting forms?
t.

Not a problem for regular Garda Vetting ( for your general job, or for working in a charity or something like the Scouts, local school)
But if the job in any way involves working in a Garda Station as a civil servant or any branch of Justice or Customs & Excise, you employment will be rejected.
These comes under the heading of "Special vetting".

Only if you are found guilty tbf

Nekarsulm · 19-02-2019 1:29pm

Correct, (I suppose, although its almost impossible to find out what this vetting actually consists of) but paying the fine for having no road tax, or a speeding summons certainly is considered a black mark against you. I think interactions with the Gardai over the previous six years are counted.

Samuel T. Cogley · 19-02-2019 5:57pm

spurious wrote: »

Why are these sort of things not handled by civilian staff?

Does it need someone with Garda training to look at a licence, record it/whatever they do?
Likewise stamping forms for passports etc..

I would have thought there would be a number of issues including civilians having to regularly go to court. I would be dubious of a non-sworn person stamping passport forms/pictures etc. For reasons of corruption alone.

beachhead · 19-02-2019 6:14pm

Go to the court with evidence of your documents i.e every thing in date no and at time of being stopped.You can also,make a fredom of information request to the gardai to see what they have on file against your name.I can't be sure if it's 60 or 30 days duration in which they must respond.Prob too late for court case.

Victor · 20-02-2019 2:31am

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Now I am sorry but this is ridiculous. She doesn't know which day in November it was an even though it was lunch time that could be between 12.45 and 14.15 so not a small window. She asked can she visit to check the CCTV and was told, quite rudely, that it wouldn't be available.

So, she wants to check up to 45 hours of CCTV from inside a Garda station.

Can you not see why they would be reluctant?

PingTing comes for Fire · 20-02-2019 3:03am

This will be recorded as a prosecution for the individual garda. In other words, a plus score in his/her work stats. Whether the prosecution reaches a conviction or not won't effect that. He/she will quietly strike it out along with their other "mistakes" while presenting their case load of prosecutions to the court. The only down side to this boost in personal performance stats is that you have to take a day off work and go into court, or make umpteen phone calls pleading your innocence or whatever. But who cares about that. That's your problem.

PingTing comes for Fire · 20-02-2019 2:29pm

Get Real wrote: »

That's actually not the reason at all. See in the past with various ticket scandals and summonses not being issued etc.

Cancelling things applied to mistakes such as this, a common sense approach. Now there is an almighty fear and paranoia of doing any of this. Because some people in an office want the procedure they invented to be implemented.

Also due to the fact this exact scenario would have counted as a "dodgy" type of scandal, when we know it's not. Alas, now there is no leeway due to it being a political football.

OP, it's frustrating, but the court will have to be attended and ask the guard to strike it out there and then.

It's not so much that this guard has a personal type of horn or anything, they are literally powerless to do anything logical about it these days. Only a judge can do it now.

Recent scandals.....Guards have been striking out heaps of summonses in court since before you were born.

manonboard · 20-02-2019 2:36pm

OP,
Go to court regardless of what the garda at the desk/super says.
If anything goes odd, or a different garda takes over the court duty, he may not be informed correctly. You are the one with the conviction so definitely present at court.

You can inform the super, and show up in court and talk to the garda doing the round. They are usually helpful since you can show you were insured and taxed etc.
This is the safest way to protect yourself so follow that route.

It's an unfortunate waste of time, so best bet is just to accept it, minimize the time you have to think about it, and take the safest course of action since its already happened.
I have the same happen twice unfortunately in the last 10 years.

Johnboy1951 · 21-02-2019 11:17am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Is there any knowledge of how much this kind of error costs the state each year through court and garda time, etc?

It would also be of be of more interest (to me) to know how much false summonses are costing the individuals who receive them.

I fail to see why individuals are at a loss due to incompetence (or worse) of 'the system'.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 21-02-2019 11:49am

Same thing happened my missus, she will have to go to court on the day but will be struck out. It's ridiculous but there is no way to get out of it before the day.

Lmklad · 23-02-2019 8:07pm

PingTing comes for Fire wrote: »

This will be recorded as a prosecution for the individual garda. In other words, a plus score in his/her work stats. Whether the prosecution reaches a conviction or not won't effect that. He/she will quietly strike it out along with their other "mistakes" while presenting their case load of prosecutions to the court. The only down side to this boost in personal performance stats is that you have to take a day off work and go into court, or make umpteen phone calls pleading your innocence or whatever. But who cares about that. That's your problem.

A bit cynical there mate. When a ticket is out on the system the Garda has the option to tick the “production demand” box. If production does not happen within the 10day period then summonses are automatically created. In this case the guard at the counter recorded her date of birth incorrectly which meant the system didn’t match her to the ticket.

Mad_maxx · 24-02-2019 3:13pm

Lmklad wrote: »

A bit cynical there mate. When a ticket is out on the system the Garda has the option to tick the “production demand” box. If production does not happen within the 10day period then summonses are automatically created. In this case the guard at the counter recorded her date of birth incorrectly which meant the system didn’t match her to the ticket.

Nothing cynical about it, fattening up one's CV means shooting fish in a barrell quite often

Lmklad · 24-02-2019 4:44pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Nothing cynical about it, fattening up one's CV means shooting fish in a barrell quite often

If by fish you mean those committing offences and shooting you mean enforcing and by barrell you mean our public roads then I’m ok with that!

Court summons but Gardai are wrong with this!

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