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Have you ever been told to brace or told passengers to brace if you're a pilot?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    An Irish oil and gas company that I worked for used to decline to send people on that dunker course, saying it wasn't necessary in Gulf operations, just to save money, so a gang of us refused to use helicopters, which are essential for getting out to rigs and going between rigs (and using rig boats is very slow and a pain in the arse). Customer companies were not impressed when we declined to use helicopters without having done a dunker course, until we told them it was the Company refusing to pay for initial and recurrent courses. The American company that owned our company got wind of it and were furious and raged at our Boss, who was lucky to keep his job.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    @Pronto63.. if that happened in P’town, I believe that the young pilot is now flying A380’s for Emirates.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 824 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    An Irish oil and gas company that I worked for used to decline to send people on that dunker course, saying it wasn't necessary in Gulf operations, just to save money, so a gang of us refused to use helicopters, which are essential for getting out to rigs and going between rigs (and using rig boats is very slow and a pain in the arse). Customer companies were not impressed when we declined to use helicopters without having done a dunker course, until we told them it was the Company refusing to pay for initial and recurrent courses. The American company that owned our company got wind of it and were furious and raged at our Boss, who was lucky to keep his job.

    I didn't think they would allow you on the helicopter without the training. They 'shouldn't' I guess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Tenger wrote: »
    Im getting shivers just reading that.
    Dr.Sanchez wrote: »
    It's not that bad really. Heres a video of me in action!


    A longer video on the topic.




    Can only imagine trying to extricate yourself while wearing LBE.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 824 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta


    ED E wrote: »
    A longer video on the topic.




    Can only imagine trying to extricate yourself while wearing LBE.

    And if you're the one by the window you may have to pull the strip and push it out!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭Pronto63


    smurfjed wrote: »
    @Pronto63.. if that happened in P’town, I believe that the young pilot is now flying A380’s for Emirates.

    Correct on the location.
    Aircraft was Papa Juliet.
    Pilot went to Aer Lingus lost track of him after that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭martinsvi


    nothing really out of the ordinary has happened to me as a passenger, but as a pilot in my relatively short career probably one of the scariest experiences has been flying over Wicklow mountains in a light aircraft with mountain waves tossing me around, seat belt failing and me hitting the ceiling with mighty force almost blacking out.

    In commercial experience nose-gear failed to come down once, had to do a go-around and perform alternate extension, no biggy.. 4 go-arounds so far.. Oh I hit a falcon recently on my wind shield, just on the flare, guts, feathers and blood covering my side of the view, not the smoothest landing I've ever done.

    Sometimes the job tosses you some hard decisions as well, in one such occasion my captain was becoming increasingly sick, vomiting and temporarily loosing consciousness, but strictly refusing to divert or to declare emergency. But you have to do what you have to do, luckily we were not too far from home.

    Another interesting event was last summer, a massive thunderstorm grew all around us over Germany, radar painting red colours left and right, no where to go, tops at FL400 unreachable for us. Skies turn black and we're up for one hell of a beating. This goes on for some 20 or 30 minutes with no break in sight and then all of a sudden our de-icing boots fail and we're literally turning into a flying brick of ice. There is a reset procedure in our QRH we have to try and I'm on it but it is difficult to read-and-do with aircraft shacking like crazy and lightning strikes blinding you constantly. Nothing works, we decide to divert and get out of icing ASAP but then we hear a guy below us declaring PAN because he's being hit by hail of the size of golf balls and his front windshield has cracks.. oh my, you're damned if you stay up there, you're damned if you go down.. the IAS is dropping, the pitch is getting higher, we decide to give it another go at resetting before we initiate a pretty much rapid decent in hopes to get out of it as quickly as possible hitting as few "golf balls " on our way as possible. Apparently the pneumatic pump had cooled down and was kind enough to restart with 3rd attempt at the reset procedure and we were able to continue our hell-ish journey for another 30 or so minutes before we were finally into clear. We had 3 people vomiting and another one peed her pants.. what to do..


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    martinsvi wrote: »
    nothing really out of the ordinary has happened to me as a passenger, but as a pilot in my relatively short career probably one of the scariest experiences has been flying over Wicklow mountains in a light aircraft with mountain waves tossing me around, seat belt failing and me hitting the ceiling with mighty force almost blacking out.

    Memories of PPL flying a long time ago over South West England in a Rallye 110 and an instructor. We were returning to home base, an old USAF/RAF airfield in the Blackdown hills some 850 Ft above sea level, but found ourselves in the uncomfortable position of being on full power, with climb attitude set, and best climb speed, but still descending towards the high ground that was rising in front of us, due to the massive downdraught that we were in. Fortunately, it wasn't turbulent air, we ended up having to turn away from the route home, and let the airspeed build for a while running downwind, away from the worst of the downdraught, and then climb considerably higher in order to get above the worst of the downdraught, before turning back towards the airfield. Fortunately, the cloudbase was high enough to allow us to do it, if we'd been height restricted by cloud, there would have been no way to get back to home base that day, we'd have had to go somewhere else to land.

    A number of years later, both myself and the instructor braced instinctively for impact when a controller error at Gatwick resulted in us having 100 Ft vertical separation from an opposite direction Dan Air BAC 1-11 that was on the base of the TMA at 2500 Ft, and we were (legitimately) operating at 2400 Ft with a different ATC unit. Gatwick had non Gatwick squawks suppressed, so didn't know we were there, and used the base of the TMA in error as a result. Brown trouser moment!

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Pronto63 wrote: »
    Back in the day when I was young, dumb and full of ...... I did a fair bit of skydiving. Was in a Cessna 182 with pilot and 3 buddies. Just so you guys know, jump-ships normally only have any seats or restraints for the pilot, not the skydivers.

    Anyway we set off down the runway and bounced our way into the air. We were only just airborne, I'd guess under 100 feet, when the pilot looked back at us and shouted "crash positions". We sprawled our arms around and started moaning as if we'd just crashed - funny eh!.

    I then noticed that the flaps were back down - normally the pilots first action after takeoff would be to retract the flaps. Things went very quiet in the aircraft.

    We did a quick circuit around the field, no more than a minute or two, but I can recall formulating a plan of action for almost every eventually. How to get out if X happened, what to do if Y happened. The circuit seemed to take a lifetime.

    The end result was a text book landing and a somewhat shook pilot.
    The problem? I believe an oil seal gave way leading to a total and instantaneous loss of oil pressure.

    A lot of beer consumed that night!!

    Loss of oil pressure = find landing spot.
    A 182 is challenging in case of an engine failure as it has a particularly high sink rate, although s good steady tourer aircraft. Of course when you are parachuting you always have to beware of the control yoke coming full back in the flare. Normally the only choice in engine failure at low height is to land pretty much ahead as a stall is likely in an attempt to make any significant turn.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Memories of PPL flying a long time ago over South West England in a Rallye 110 and an instructor. We were returning to home base, an old USAF/RAF airfield in the Blackdown hills some 850 Ft above sea level, but found ourselves in the uncomfortable position of being on full power, with climb attitude set, and best climb speed, but still descending towards the high ground that was rising in front of us, due to the massive downdraught that we were in. Fortunately, it wasn't turbulent air, we ended up having to turn away from the route home, and let the airspeed build for a while running downwind, away from the worst of the downdraught, and then climb considerably higher in order to get above the worst of the downdraught, before turning back towards the airfield. Fortunately, the cloudbase was high enough to allow us to do it, if we'd been height restricted by cloud, there would have been no way to get back to home base that day, we'd have had to go somewhere else to land.

    A number of years later, both myself and the instructor braced instinctively for impact when a controller error at Gatwick resulted in us having 100 Ft vertical separation from an opposite direction Dan Air BAC 1-11 that was on the base of the TMA at 2500 Ft, and we were (legitimately) operating at 2400 Ft with a different ATC unit. Gatwick had non Gatwick squawks suppressed, so didn't know we were there, and used the base of the TMA in error as a result. Brown trouser moment!

    At least the lovely Rallye aircraft was a real beauty for managing comfortable steep approaches from on high. And so easy to get rid of excess height with side-slips.

    Was watching Arthur Williams (the paraplegic ex-marine Pilot) flying his cub onto Blackdown in tricky winds. Again the Rallye was good in some awkward winds(used to keep the power on a bit) to have authority against the low wing dropping one side in turbulence, but climbing power wasn’t a strong point to say the least. Always best to err on high a bit of altitude to play with in that aircraft.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    martinsvi wrote: »

    Sometimes the job tosses you some hard decisions as well, in one such occasion my captain was becoming increasingly sick, vomiting and temporarily loosing consciousness, but strictly refusing to divert or to declare emergency. But you have to do what you have to do, luckily we were not too far from home..

    Out of curiosity should the pilot have diverted, according to procedue’s I mean? Must have put you in a difficult position?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭nlrkjos


    Dr.Sanchez wrote: »
    I used to teach helicopter underwater escape training to people working on oil rigs. After four years of it, I got tired of telling people to BRACE, BRACE, BRACE before dropping them (in their fake helicopter) into a pool and spinning it upsidedown.

    Some of us get sick of hearing BRACE< BRACE < BRACE :rolleyes: my next is my last T.F.
    We had a bad flight coming back from a rig one night, like being in a fecken washing machine,couple of lads said after to the co-pilot that they were real worried ! his reply was "only worry when you smell crap from the cockpit!!"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    @Von.Bosch. Sometimes its easier just to go home (or destination) as you are all set up for it, briefed for it, and expected. Plus there shall be additional crews to take the aircraft out again. Diverting to somewhere else causes all sorts of confusion and general chaos. But each case must be analysed as they will be all different, if this Captain was having a heart attack, then it would require an immediate landing, but if he was just feeling like crap, then it's up to him.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    smurfjed wrote: »
    @Von.Bosch. Sometimes its easier just to go home (or destination) as you are all set up for it, briefed for it, and expected. Plus there shall be additional crews to take the aircraft out again. Diverting to somewhere else causes all sorts of confusion and general chaos. But each case must be analysed as they will be all different, if this Captain was having a heart attack, then it would require an immediate landing, but if he was just feeling like crap, then it's up to him.

    Yeah but food poisoning/norovirus will totally incapacitate a pilot and render them unfit to participate in flying for the hours and days it affects them. I did PPL years ago, my instructor from Weston later being a 747 pilot on board a BA flight from Australia. He and another pilot on board had dined together before flight and got struck down with food poisoning, and the end result was great distraction in the cockpit at a critical landing phase and the aircraft came in close proximity of a Heathrow hotel, I think during a go around.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    http://avherald.com/h?article=4c4c5396&opt=0

    A real surprise for co-pilot to have the beak of a vulture and it’s guts at his/her feet. How do announce that to passengers? “This is the captain, I hope you are enjoying your flight. That thud we just felt is because a vulture has just come on board to join us for remainder of flight. It’s also why the oxygen masks have deployed. I do trust you are not too distressed, we will be landing shortly, so kindly assume the brace position as our steering may not be 100%”.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147119

    This is the only event that I can remember that involved a BA747 coming close to the hotels on the bath road, is this the flight you were talking about?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    I was on a BA flight from Athens to LGW in about 95/96/97. My recollection is that a wheel bounced off at Athens airport, a flight crew member came down and entered some door in the floor*, when we landed the fire trucks were foaming the runway etc but we were in the brace position. Is there anyway of finding the details of this anywhere? Think it was a 767.

    *thinking back, this part may not have happened, doesn’t seem likely😀


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,185 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    I was on a BA flight from Athens to LGW in about 95/96/97. My recollection is that a wheel bounced off at Athens airport, a flight crew member came down and entered some door in the floor*, when we landed the fire trucks were foaming the runway etc but we were in the brace position. Is there anyway of finding the details of this anywhere? Think it was a 767.

    *thinking back, this part may not have happened, doesn’t seem likely😀

    On some older types of aircraft there was indeed a viewing access panel where you could inspect the gear from the cabin floor. Although I’m sure someone else here will have more knowledge


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    smurfjed wrote: »
    https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147119

    This is the only event that I can remember that involved a BA747 coming close to the hotels on the bath road, is this the flight you were talking about?

    That’s the very one. Lovely guy he is, had him as instructor in my very first trial flight/lesson on a Friday 13th out at Darby Kennedy’s, the man who made flying accessible to all pockets in early 1980s, there were even people on the dole taking lessons, and a young lady with a minimal salary was being introduced to aerobatics by Arthur Wignall until his tragic accident in Sligo. Sometimes in Weston you had to shoo a peacock off the wing before boarding taking up your designated airplane. Tim gave me a great intro lesson, upon landing rather roughly said “sorry...that’s not the way to do it”. As I said, it was Friday 13th, so all excused.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Back in the 80s, during flying lessons time I got to go on board a light commercial freight flight overnight Dublin-Bonn/Cologne-Southend-Dublin. The lone freight pilots liked a bit of trusted company on board, and most often it would be in the form of a might-be/trainee commercial pilot seeing what the actual job was like. It was a Cessna Titan, boarded through a rear door.

    After arriving in Bonn/Cologne we retreated to the portacabin when rudimentary beds were placed in rows, rather army-barracks-fashion, for pilots to have a few hours kip. My pilot asked me to waken him (told him I wasn’t much of a sleeper) when I heard the UPS DC8 come in from the States as there’d bevan exchange of cargo, and he wanted to get the engines started before they’d get too cold overnight and be hard to start.

    After boarding the freight was piled to capacity behind our seats, preventing any possible egress through the door. We taxied out and we’re rolling along the runway when a red light flashed on and we braked to a halt. Cargo door open indication, could have meant medical equipment being strewn all over the local cities and the Germans wouldn’t like that at all. Pilot asked to pull onto taxiway and stop briefly to close door, permission granted by ATC. He left engines running, and proceeded to climb out the emergency window beside him, whilst I asked him which were the fuel condition levers and exactly how to pull them off in case of emergency. I winced as he passed close to running propellers to access the door externally. All for the fear of not being able to start them, even when they had showed zero reluctance to fire into life.

    We set out again, headed for Southend to unload some of our freight, arriving at break of dawn. Tbe fuellers came along and asked me what we needed. BTW I was there under pretence of being a legit pilot, and referred them to the captain rather than say “fill her up”! The pilot sat on a kitchen sink drinking his coffee, in a rather basic outhouse of the terminal, reminding me of a garden shed. One of the other freight pilots, in from Vienna, had seen a Dakota arrive and somehow made the assumption I was its pilot, and asked me would it be possible for me to give him a flight on board as it had been a long-standing ambition to sit up front in one. “Sorry, mine is the Titan, not so interesting.”

    After pilot had finished his coffee we walked back out to the aircraft and took off into lovely sunny skies. Glancing down my side over Burnham on Crouch by the Essex Coast my eye was sharply drawn to a hole in the wing where the fuel cap should be. Actually it was flying off in the slipstream, caught on precariously by the end of a chain which had caught in the port, but was not attached to it. I informed pilot, whilst glancing at the fuel levels. He turned white as a sheet and declared Pan Pan on the radio requesting immediate return to Southend. I said “don’t worry, fuel levels are good and stable”, but of course I didn’t know how the dynamic of a gaping hole in the wing would actually work out, and neither did he except to fear it would all vapourise quickly through the low pressure over wing. He said it was a good thing I was there as he wouldn’t have seen it from his vantage point, and blamed himself for failing to do the walk around, as well as the fuel people. One thing he did ask was for me to keep my eye closely on that fuel cap and note exactly the location if it fell off so that we might retrieve it by land as a replacement part could take over a day to get from USA. I had to get into work later that day and was most anxious not to have a detachment which might delay me!

    We got going again, fuel cap properly in place, closely overtaking the Dakota which had just departed ahead of us, and waving out to its pilot. Flying over semi-cloudy Snowdonia I insisted on a full 1000 feet separation between us and Mount Snowden as we had tempted fate twice already in the last few hours. He wanted a closer-up view on this beautiful day, but conceded to my request to climb 500 feet higher for a safety margin as the cloud was hanging around the tops of the mountains. I got back barelyy in time to sign on the attendance book at my mundane public service job in Dublin. The boss said I looked flustered, but I didn’t dare tell my tale as she would have admonished me for doing such an irresponsible thing as taking that flight.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    That’s the very one. Lovely guy he is, had him as instructor in my very first trial flight/lesson on a Friday 13th out at Darby Kennedy’s, the man who made flying accessible to all pockets in early 1980s, there were even people on the dole taking lessons, and a young lady with a minimal salary was being introduced to aerobatics by Arthur Wignall until his tragic accident in Sligo. Sometimes in Weston you had to shoo a peacock off the wing before boarding taking up your designated airplane. Tim gave me a great intro lesson, upon landing rather roughly said “sorry...that’s not the way to do it”. As I said, it was Friday 13th, so all excused.

    Christ:
    In May 1991 the captain was convicted of negligently endangering his aircraft and passengers. He had resigned from British Airways after losing his captain's qualification on type. He was fined UKP £2,000, and ordered to pay legal costs totalling UKP £1,500. On 30 November 1992, he committed suicide (see link #4)
    As a result of this incident the rules on landing and approach for the Boeing 747-100/200 were changed to make a manual go-around mandatory if the ILS Deviation lights illuminated at any stage on the approach.

    Maybe I'm being naive and modern, but that's a shocking safety culture to go for a conviction. They even changed the rule later - talk about lessons learned...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    The aircraft commander resigned from British Airways on 2 April 1990.
    He appealed unsuccessfully against the endorsement to his pilots licence.
    He committed suicide on 1 December 1992.
    This case is understood to have been the first UK criminal prosecution of a professional pilot as a result of their actions whilst in command of an aircraft being used for the purposes of commercial air transport. There has since been no comparable prosecution in the UK.

    He was basically hung out to dry. The investigation was done by BA and the CAA and not the AAIB as one would expect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 851 ✭✭✭vintagecosmos


    Locker10a wrote: »
    The first time I experienced the landing gear being re-lowered after take off due to hot breaks (I didn’t know this at the time) my attention peaked and I felt a little adrenaline.

    Other than that, standard birstrikes and one rapid precautionary disembarkation due to smoke in the cabin during boarding.

    That's an interesting one. Read in a book recently that pilots used to leave the brakes on and open full throttle to clear fog off the runways. The old red-hot landing gear starting fires when retracted put an end to it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    The old red-hot landing gear starting fires when retracted put an end to it.
    Agh.... i started thinking about kinetic energy when the aircraft isnt moving, googled it and found this gem

    https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/685775.pdf 1969 no less.

    Now for some amusing reading, thanks :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,523 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That's an interesting one. Read in a book recently that pilots used to leave the brakes on and open full throttle to clear fog off the runways. The old red-hot landing gear starting fires when retracted put an end to it.

    https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19630904-0

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_306
    This crash severely affected the small village of Humlikon in the Canton of Zürich: 43 of its 217 citizens (20% of the population) boarded the plane to visit a farm test site near Geneva. Among those who perished were the entire local council, all teachers and caretakers at the local schools, and the village's post office clerk.

    Scrap the cap!



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