Minimum spend of €10 in order to use debit card @ The Academy?

Time · 25-01-2019 12:35am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Who is your provider? What fees for credit cards? I'm paying a hell of a lot more than that

I'm on a negotiated rate with BOIPA. Credit cards are 1.03% for Visa and 1.039% for MC with no set transaction charge.

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 12:38am

worded wrote:

So who are the cheapest providers please and I will let them know. They inherited the CC system from the previous owners

I'd love to know too. Ecomn charge me .5 percent debit transaction & .75 percent credit. 1.4 percent for a business card. I also pay 20 euro per month for the machine rental.

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 12:43am

I was with BOIPA up to last year. They were 50c and 75c per transaction. Inc the machine it cost 40 euros per month for 2k worth of transactions

Edit none of my transactions qualified for contactless as they were much higher than 30 euros

Time · 25-01-2019 12:51am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I was with BOIPA up to last year. They were 50c and 75c per transaction. Inc the machine it cost 40 euros per month for 2k worth of transactions

Edit none of my transactions qualified for contactless as they were much higher than 30 euros

I'm putting over 20 times that through the machine a month so the rates are negotiated. Try Worldpay through IOC.

the heathen · 25-01-2019 1:06am

Deleted User wrote:

Which centra, out of curiousity?

The one at Drogheda Leisure Park/Rathmullen. I don't think I've seen a 'minimum spend' sign up in the store but go up with your sandwich and you'll find out. :-)

fritzelly · 25-01-2019 1:11am

Its cheaper for a business to accept contactless than it is to lodge cash
There is legislation in place for debit card transactions, cannot remember the charge but google it, its tiny like less than 1%, and that is EU law. Credit cards are a different story
The only proviso is your merchant company charges on top

worded · 25-01-2019 2:14pm

Stumbled on this from an ad on boards ...

https://sumup.ie/welcome/home/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAhKviBRCNARIsAAGZ7CeS1ZugEX8RBgFokIFi_w-m5jrVZZd9dS6f-RPjwngpUiRdUCT2HEMaAlE9EALw_wcB

BobMc · 25-01-2019 4:27pm

My terminal rental and it includes all charges for any transactions (up to 6k per month) e58 per month including VAT

worded · 25-01-2019 4:28pm

BobMc wrote: »

My terminal rental and it includes all charges for any transactions (up to 6k per month) e58 per month including VAT

Whats their web site pls?

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 7:02pm

Just had a few pints in the Donaghmede Inn. One of the biggest pubs in the area. It's still cash and cheques there. No cards at all. Pass machine outside if you need

swampy353 · 25-01-2019 7:07pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Just had a few pints in the Donaghmede Inn. One of the biggest pubs in the area. It's still cash and cheques there. No cards at all. Pass machine outside if you need

If a pub doesn't offer a service that's fine but when the pub is selective about when they'll offer it, that's the issue.

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 7:15pm

swampy353 wrote:

If a pub doesn't offer a service that's fine but when the pub is selective about when they'll offer it, that's the issue.

So long as merchants can charge 75c per transaction you will always have some retailers setting a minimum spend. I just don't see how the retailers are getting blamed for the price structure set by the merchant

Johnny Red Cab · 25-01-2019 7:21pm

If someone is paying 75 cent per transaction they need to take lessons in negotiations.

ED E · 25-01-2019 7:24pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

So long as merchants can charge 75c per transaction you will always have some retailers setting a minimum spend. I just don't see how the retailers are getting blamed for the price structure set by the merchant

They are the merchant. You're confusing an MSP with a merchant(retailer).

And you'd have to have more fingers than brain cells to pay that much.

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 7:30pm

ED E wrote:

And you'd have to have more fingers than brain cells to pay that much.

Brain cells or not, so long as merchant services can change these fees (&they can) then you will have retailers setting minimum orders.

Why do you suppose any retailer would set minimum order if they were just paying a small percentage? Lots of retailers pay a set fee per transaction.

L1011 · 25-01-2019 7:38pm

If you're paying a set fee that high with an average purchase value that low youed to change provider - you may as well not have the terminal.

swampy353 · 25-01-2019 7:51pm

In fairness its not as bad if any retailer signs up to a service with no information on what the fees etc are. If they sign up, they agree to the fees and also to not setting a minimum spend as specified in all the t&c's posted previously.
You can't pick and choose what parts of the contract you want to implement

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 8:18pm

L1011 wrote:

If you're paying a set fee that high with an average purchase value that low youed to change provider - you may as well not have the terminal.

This may be so but it does explain why some retailers have a minimum spend.

Some people are slow to change provider. Most OAPs are still with EIR, (telecom eireann), board Gais, the original plan B with VHI or in Dublin Greyhound waste disposal.

Yes they should change if there are better deals but not everyone changes. Far too many posters stating what retailers are paying when no one knows what plan an individual retailer is on.

I'll say it one more time: why would any retailer set a minimum order amount if they are only paying a percentage. I'm sure you'll find that they are paying a set transaction fee. A minimum order amount only makes sense if they are paying a set fee.

fritzelly · 25-01-2019 8:33pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'll say it one more time: why would any retailer set a minimum order amount if they are only paying a percentage..

Because they think it's still 1990
Debit cards are capped at 0.1%, if you are paying 75c on top of that then you are mad

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 8:42pm

fritzelly wrote:

Because they think it's still 1990

Yes.

It doesn't matter what their reason is. It is a fact that many people refuse to change & pay dearly for it in the long run. Many posts here make no sense. Stating that everyone pays 25c per transaction or a tiny percentage isn't true. The reality is that just about every shop pays different rates, fees and commissions. You can't assume that a shop is getting a certain deal.

I can think of absolutely no reason why a shop would have a minimum spend if they were on a percentage rather than a set fee. When on a set fee you need a minimum spend

L1011 · 25-01-2019 9:45pm

Realistically, consumers don't care and should have to care that the retailer is stuck using poor quality suppliers. And that's the purpose of the forum here.

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 10:02pm

L1011 wrote:

Realistically, consumers don't care and should have to care that the retailer is stuck using poor quality suppliers. And that's the purpose of the forum here.

I'm not taking sides. I'm just explaining why some shops charge a minimum transaction fee. The vast majority of posters don't seem to understand that many retailers have to charge minimum transaction.

The real consumer issue as far as contactless payment is concerned is the fact that banks let you spend money you don't have then charge fees & fines often higher than the cost of the original transaction. Young people in particular are being taken advantage of in this way. If you use chip & pin you can only use money in your account. Contactless payments allow minors to get into debt. I'm amazed there hasn't been a prime time investigation into the practice. As far as I remember it's illegal for a bank to loan minors money.

L1011 · 25-01-2019 10:03pm

They don't "have" to charge it - they are entirely capable of changing upstream provider.

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 10:16pm

L1011 wrote:

They don't "have" to charge it - they are entirely capable of changing upstream provider.

That's easy saying that but some are tied into 18 and 24 month contracts. They also have a right to stick with the company they have been using for 20 years or more. Some shop owners believe that they have to stay with their provider because its linked to their bank.

I have a small mail order company & I only use An Post for delivery. Other delivery companies are cheaper. I pass on the extra An Post charge to my customers. My customers have the option of paying or going elsewhere. My customers don't have the right to make me use another delivery service. Its the same in shops. Don't like the minimum purchase? Move on. Shop elsewhere. Despite what some posters believe the minimum transaction is not illegal not does it break any banking rules.

fritzelly · 25-01-2019 10:18pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The real consumer issue as far as contactless payment is concerned is the fact that banks let you spend money you don't have then charge fees & fines often higher than the cost of the original transaction. Young people in particular are being taken advantage of in this way. If you use chip & pin you can only use money in your account. Contactless payments allow minors to get into debt. I'm amazed there hasn't been a prime time investigation into the practice. As far as I remember it's illegal for a bank to loan minors money.

Again another issue with the merchant - they should be updating in real time.
Don't think I've ever had a contactless payment not show up immediately and even so there is still a limit of how much you can spend per day before a pin is needed.

fritzelly · 25-01-2019 10:24pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Don't like the minimum purchase? Move on. Shop elsewhere. Despite what some posters believe the minimum transaction is not illegal not does it break any banking rules.

Mastercard and Visa do not allow it as part of the contract, you can even report retailers doing it.

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 10:26pm

fritzelly wrote:

Again another issue with the merchant - they should be updating in real time. Don't think I've ever had a contactless payment not show up immediately and even so there is still a limit of how much you can spend per day before a pin is needed.

A young student old has one euro in his account. He can make several contactless transactions in the day. They don't have to amount to much. Let's say 5 cups of coffee throughout the day at 3 euros per cup. He could be hit with over 20 in fees and fines. It's not that he'd be hundreds in debt, its the charges that the bank makes on him.

Cards & contactless payments are grand when you are flush but they allow you to spend money that you don't have. This is a mojor issue for some school going students. Yet the banks are happy with the status quo.

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 10:36pm

fritzelly wrote:

Mastercard and Visa do not allow it as part of the contract, you can even report retailers doing it.

If the merchant charges a flat fee the retailer is allowed to charge minimum transaction. This is definitely not against the rules. I was told this by BOI card services. They activity tell retailers that they can do this. It was not in my t&cs with BOI. I'd imagine the t&cs you are looking at are for percentage fees rather than set fees.

I've been to many countries where there is not only a minimum fee but also a charge to use you card in the shop. I was in Egypt last November and its very common there.

As a retailer I don't have any contract with Visa or Mastercard. I had a contract with BOI and now have a contract with Ecomm.

L1011 · 25-01-2019 10:40pm

How old was the BOIPA agreement?

Both card brandnames provide functions to report retailers doing it - I imagine they would be quite annoyed with a downstream provider who are not enforcing it

Your defences for retailers simply do not stack up - they can modernise (saving themselves money in the process) or eventually get put out of business due to sticking with the past. Consumers should not have to suffer due to retailers stuck in the past.

The An Post analogy simply doesn't work - there is a major practical differences in the service provided to the consumer with shipment options and people will often opt for mail. With cards, there is no practical difference.

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 11:06pm

L1011 wrote:

How old was the BOIPA agreement?

I left BOIPA about 6 months ago.

Here's something to think about. While I was with BOIPA I was paying 50c & 75c per transaction. I never had minimum transaction as my average was 350 per transaction. While I was paying these fees another poster was with the same company paying something ridiculous like .12 percent debit card and 7c credit card. I'm with the same company at the same time but can't get anywhere near the same deal. I have a better deal now .5 debit & .75 credit. It doesn't matter what company I go to I won't be able to get much better. Its easy to say that these companies should go get a better deal. That option isn't available for the small business.

L1011 wrote:

Your defences for retailers simply do not stack up - they can modernise (saving themselves money in the process) or eventually get put out of business due to sticking with the past. Consumers should not have to suffer due to retailers stuck in the past.

Consumers don't have to suffer. They have legs & can shop elsewhere. This is the greatest consumer tool you have. It's like a filling station. You don't have to go to the expensive ones.

I've no skin in this. I don't use contactless on my cards nor can my clients use contactless with me as the transactions are in the hundreds. I'm just explaining that many posters are incorrect. I'm explaining why some shops have a minimum order. I'm not saying minimum order is a good thing. Just explaining why it is.

As for it being against the t&cs why not report the shop in question? I bet in 6 months time they will still have a minimum order despite the complaint.

L1011 · 25-01-2019 11:11pm

When you're already in a venue, you are rather limited by the arbitrary requirement. And places don't advertise that they're living in the past from outside.

Sleeper12 · 25-01-2019 11:22pm

L1011 wrote:

When you're already in a venue, you are rather limited by the arbitrary requirement. And places don't advertise that they're living in the past from outside.

I hear you & don't disagree. I'm not defending minimum spend. I'm really just trying to show that some small businesses pay set transaction fees and would lose money on a 3 euro transaction.

My main business is shower repair and installation. I'm looking at dropping the card machine all together tbh. My IBAN is on my invoice and a lot of clients transfer. This can save me a lot of money. Card fees were over 60 euros in December. That's nearly a fill of diesel for me.

mrcheez · 26-01-2019 3:16am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I hear you & don't disagree. I'm not defending minimum spend. I'm really just trying to show that some small businesses pay set transaction fees and would lose money on a 3 euro transaction.

My main business is shower repair and installation. I'm looking at dropping the card machine all together tbh. My IBAN is on my invoice and a lot of clients transfer. This can save me a lot of money. Card fees were over 60 euros in December. That's nearly a fill of diesel for me.

The Academy is not a small business and should easily be able to foot the charges considering how overpriced their drinks are.

fritzelly · 26-01-2019 3:57am

As already mentioned, if some private company can do 2.5% charges there is no excuses for someone who has a merchant account to get even better rates
We are slowly moving to a cashless society, last time I used cash was for a kebab and even they do contactless
Local shop used to charge a few for under 10 charges, i mentioned it to them that its cheaper than lodging cash, the charge is now gone and no minimum amount for debit cards

Sleeper12 · 26-01-2019 9:16am

fritzelly wrote:

As already mentioned, if some private company can do 2.5% charges there is no excuses for someone who has a merchant account to get even better rates We are slowly moving to a cashless society, last time I used cash was for a kebab and even they do contactless Local shop used to charge a few for under 10 charges, i mentioned it to them that its cheaper than lodging cash, the charge is now gone and no minimum amount for debit cards

I've tried to explain several times that the good rates aren't available to everyone no matter what company you use. I refunded someone for the first time last month only to discover that I get charged 5 euros if I refund someone.

I can't stress this enough. Not everyone is on good rates and not everyone can get good rates. I think it is very wrong of posters to assume what rates a particular company pays.

eagle eye · 26-01-2019 10:43am

If you can't get good rates then don't have those machines. If enough people refuse to have them they'll get offered a much better deal to get them on.

Personally I was gone pretty much cashless but have recently reverted to cash. There are too many people that know too much about you if you are using a card constantly. I value my privacy.

_Brian · 26-01-2019 10:57am

I avoid business that add this charge.

Went into local filling station for a drum of petrol for lawnmower, came to €7.

I only had card and they had introduced this stupid €10 min spend, conversation as follows.

Sorry €10 min spend on card

Sorry, I’ve no cash.

Buy something else.

No I don’t want anything else

Why not do the lotto?

I don’t do the lotto.

Well it’s €10 min spend

Grand, where do I leave back the petrol ?

What ?, you can’t

Ok so, I’ll come back tomorrow and pay?

No, we don’t give credit

I’m not looking for credit I want to pay but you won’t take the money!

Can you wait and let these other people go so we can sort this out ?

No it’s my turn!

Fine, I’ll put it through for €7

Irish_peppa · 26-01-2019 11:08am

cavemeister wrote: »

I dropped into a bar in Douglas, Cork for a pint a few weeks ago while the other half was having a spa treatment. Ordered a pint - €5.50 or thereabouts.

Handed over my debit card and the barman said minimum was €10 per transaction.

I put my card back into my wallet and walked out leaving the freshly poured pint on the bar counter. It was during the day so the pub was pretty quiet.

Went into another bar across the road who had no minimum for purchases and enjoyed a pint there.

If everyone did this, pubs and shops would soon drop this stupid self inflicted rule.

Im gonna do this today in my local petrol station when im putting 5 euros worth of petrol in the car:D

tomwaits48 · 30-01-2019 4:31pm

_Brian wrote: »

I avoid business that add this charge.

Went into local filling station for a drum of petrol for lawnmower, came to €7.

I only had card and they had introduced this stupid €10 min spend, conversation as follows.

Sorry €10 min spend on card

Sorry, I’ve no cash.

Buy something else.

No I don’t want anything else

Why not do the lotto?

I don’t do the lotto.

Well it’s €10 min spend

Grand, where do I leave back the petrol ?

What ?, you can’t

Ok so, I’ll come back tomorrow and pay?

No, we don’t give credit

I’m not looking for credit I want to pay but you won’t take the money!

Can you wait and let these other people go so we can sort this out ?

No it’s my turn!

Fine, I’ll put it through for €7

jesus, people who man the tills at fillings stations have enough crap to deal with. take it up with the management.

Johnny Red Cab · 30-01-2019 4:44pm

I admire his gumption in persisting against a stupid policy.

Sleeper12 · 30-01-2019 5:32pm

_Brian wrote: »

I avoid business that add this charge.

Went into local filling station for a drum of petrol for lawnmower, came to €7.

I only had card and they had introduced this stupid €10 min spend, conversation as follows.

Sorry €10 min spend on card

Sorry, I’ve no cash.

Buy something else.

No I don’t want anything else

Why not do the lotto?

I don’t do the lotto.

Well it’s €10 min spend

Grand, where do I leave back the petrol ?

What ?, you can’t

Ok so, I’ll come back tomorrow and pay?

No, we don’t give credit

I’m not looking for credit I want to pay but you won’t take the money!

Can you wait and let these other people go so we can sort this out ?

No it’s my turn!

Fine, I’ll put it through for €7

You do realize that a dick thing to do & you would be totally in the wrong.

Cards aren't legal tender. Cash is legal tender but not cards. Regardless what signs are in the shop they do not have to accept your card at all. They do have to accept cash

L1011 · 30-01-2019 6:41pm

That isn't what Legal Tender means

Sleeper12 · 30-01-2019 7:03pm

L1011 wrote: »

That isn't what Legal Tender means

It's exactly what legal tender is. The meaning hasn't changed in the last 40 years or so. Our currency has changed but not the meaning of legal tender

Official currency

The euro is the single currency shared by European Union countries that have adopted the euro. Some EU countries do not participate (Denmark and the United Kingdom through 'opt outs') or have not adopted the euro yet because the convergence criteria to join the euro are not met.
Official currencies, including the euro, consist in a monetary system designed and controlled by a state or, as regards the euro, by supranational structures.
Within the euro area, only the euro has the status of legal tender. Article 128 (1) TFEU lays down the legal tender status of euro banknotes, and article 11 of Regulation EC/974/98 does so with regard to euro coins. This means that in the absence of an agreement of the means of payment, the creditor is obliged to accept a payment made in euro which subsequently discharges the debtor from his payment obligation.
Yet, during transactions, contractual parties are free to use other official foreign currencies with legal tender status in the state of issuance (e.g. the pound sterling or the US dollar). The same applies to privately issued money like local exchange trading systems (e.g. voucher-based payment systems in certain communities) or virtual currency schemes (e.g. Bitcoin). Although these are not official currencies and have no legal tender status, parties can agree to use them as private money without prejudice to the official currency. In that way, these forms of private money can be considered as economic assets. Private money transactions and business are subject to the general rules of commodity trade such as taxation law, business law, anti-money laundering law or others. However, they are not official currencies and they are not governed by monetary law.

Notes & coins are legal tender. Cards are not legal tender

It's been many decades since I sat down in 2nd year with a commerce book but I do remember that Irish Punts was legal tender at the time. You always have the right to refuse admission (a transaction/ sale/ customer) but if you accepted a the sale then Punts was legal tender. You can't refuse legal tender. They even went into how many pennies, shillings etc you had to accept. You might have had to accept 100 pennies but there was a cut off point. You didn't have to accept 1000 pennies.

Cards are not legal tender. Shop can accept a sale & must accept Euro coins & notes as part of the sale but does not have to accept cards

L1011 · 30-01-2019 7:51pm

Legal tender is only a concept in debt payments, not retail transactions. Shops are not required to take cash

Antique school books are not a reliable source of information!

Sleeper12 · 30-01-2019 8:02pm

L1011 wrote: »

Legal tender is only a concept in debt payments, not retail transactions. Shops are not required to take cash

I'm bewildered why you'd take such a stance.

I suggest doing some research on the subject. You'll find you are mistaken

Perhaps you have a link?

Legal tender is a medium of payment recognized by a legal system to be valid for meeting a financial obligation.[1] Paper currency and coins are common forms of legal tender in many countries. Legal tender is variously defined in different jurisdictions. Formally, it is anything which when offered in payment extinguishes the debt. Thus, personal cheques, credit cards, and similar non-cash methods of payment are not usually legal tender. The law does not relieve the debt obligation until payment is tendered. Coins and banknotes are usually defined as legal tender. Some jurisdictions may forbid or restrict payment made other than by legal tender. For example, such a law might outlaw the use of foreign coins and bank notes or require a license to perform financial transactions in a foreign currency.
Generally, designation of a particular form of money as legal tender means "that the designated money is valid payment for all debts unless there is a specific agreement to the contrary".[2] In some jurisdictions legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists prior to the time of payment (where the obligation to pay may arise at the same time as the offer of payment). For example, vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote. Shopkeepers may reject large banknotes: this is covered by the legal concept known as invitation to treat.I][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_clarify"]clarification needed[/URL][/I Under the law, United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for antecedent debts when tendered to a creditor. By contrast, federal statutes do not require that someone who is not a pre-existing creditor must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses may formulate their own policies on whether to accept cash unless state law requires otherwise.[3][4]
The right, in many jurisdictions, of a trader to refuse to do business with any person, means a purchaser may not insist on making a purchase and so declaring a legal tender in law, as anything other than an offered payment for debts already incurred would not be effective.

L1011 · 30-01-2019 8:09pm

Wikipedia is not a source, however it does not back up what you say and does back up what I'm saying - valid for a financial obligation. A retail purchase is not a financial obligation - as a bit of that post you didn't bold and presumably didn't read even says! Shops are not required to take cash.

Legal tender is solely a concept for the payment of debts. It is irrelevant to the discussion here entirely. Retailers are also not required to take cards

Sleeper12 · 30-01-2019 8:23pm

L1011 wrote: »

Wikipedia is not a source, however it does not back up what you say and does back up what I'm saying - valid for a financial obligation. A retail purchase is not a financial obligation - as a bit of that post you didn't bold and presumably didn't read even says! Shops are not required to take cash.

Legal tender is solely a concept for the payment of debts. It is irrelevant to the discussion here entirely. Retailers are also not required to take cards

I can promise you that I'm not wrong on this. Any decent retailer knows & understands the laws surrounding their business. I'm genuinely gobsmacked that you don't know what Legal Tender is.

OK Wikipedia isn't good enough. How about the EU? Can we accept the EU as a good source? https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/euro/use-euro/euro-legal-tender_en

Official currency

The euro is the single currency shared by European Union countries that have adopted the euro. Some EU countries do not participate (Denmark and the United Kingdom through 'opt outs') or have not adopted the euro yet because the convergence criteria to join the euro are not met.
Official currencies, including the euro, consist in a monetary system designed and controlled by a state or, as regards the euro, by supranational structures.
Within the euro area, only the euro has the status of legal tender. Article 128 (1) TFEU lays down the legal tender status of euro banknotes, and article 11 of Regulation EC/974/98 does so with regard to euro coins. This means that in the absence of an agreement of the means of payment, the creditor is obliged to accept a payment made in euro which subsequently discharges the debtor from his payment obligation.
Yet, during transactions, contractual parties are free to use other official foreign currencies with legal tender status in the state of issuance (e.g. the pound sterling or the US dollar). The same applies to privately issued money like local exchange trading systems (e.g. voucher-based payment systems in certain communities) or virtual currency schemes (e.g. Bitcoin). Although these are not official currencies and have no legal tender status, parties can agree to use them as private money without prejudice to the official currency. In that way, these forms of private money can be considered as economic assets. Private money transactions and business are subject to the general rules of commodity trade such as taxation law, business law, anti-money laundering law or others. However, they are not official currencies and they are not governed by monetary law.
Practical questions about the euro

Although euro area countries share a single currency, interpretations of its legal tender status means still differ across countries. This may be a source of confusion and lead to questions such as
can a retailer refuse payments in cash at all times?

can shops refuse payments with high denomination banknotes?

can surcharges be imposed on payments in cash?

Therefore, the purpose of the Commission recommendation on the scope and effects of legal tender of euro cash (2010/191/EU) is to provide guidelines on such issues with direct implications on peoples' daily lives. These guidelines are based on 10 principles
banknotes and coins should be accepted for their full face value to pay for debts

payments in cash should be the accepted rule. This should only be refused because of the 'good faith' principle - for example, if the retailer does not have enough change

it should be the rule to accept high denomination banknotes

no surcharges should be imposed on payments in cash

countries should not adopt new rounding rules to the nearest 5 cent

countries should prevent euro collector coins from being used as means of payment

Stained banknotes should be brought back to the National Central Banks as they might be the product of a theft

total destruction of banknotes and coins by individuals in small quantities should not be prohibited

mutilation of banknotes and coins for artistic purposes should be tolerated

the competence to destroy fit euro coins should not belong to national authorities in isolation anymore

Again if you can post a link to your information I might be able to explain how you are picking it up so wrong.

L1011 · 30-01-2019 8:33pm

And I can assure you that you are horribly, horribly wrong.

You are skimming content to find the bits that align with your viewpoint. You are re-stating the concept of legal tender, that's fine. What you are entirely missing is that legal tender only applies in the case of settlement of a debt. This is a very basic legal concept. No debt is created in a retail transaction.

You have again posted a reference that specifically mentions it being for debt; followed by some non-binding recommendations which while clearly solid advice for business owners, have no legal basis.

Dark Rabbit · 30-01-2019 8:43pm

That's if all of the cash is lodged. I was at a barber shop with my son recently (I'm completely bald 15 years). There were 3 barbers, a receptionist and the waiting room was packed but cash only and no receipt offered. I couldn't help but wonder if all the cash is declared for Paschal.

Sleeper12 · 30-01-2019 8:48pm

L1011 wrote:

You are skimming content to find the bits that align with your viewpoint. You are re-stating the concept of legal tender, that's fine. What you are entirely missing is that legal tender only applies in the case of settlement of a debt. This is a very basic legal concept. No debt is created in a retail transaction.

You're really doubling down on this?

My What you are missing is that everytime you buy something you have a debt. You owe for the goods or services. A debt isn't something that has to be owed for a period of time. A debt & payment of the debt can take place, in seconds at the cash register at your local filling station. A debt can be paid immediately or the retailer can offer credit terms. Either way it is a debt.

If I repair your shower, walk down the stairs and have you a COD invoice, how do you describe you & I at that moment in time. You are in debt to me. Right there & then. It's the exact same in a filling station. You put 5 euros of fuel in the car & you owe 5 euros at the cash desk. Owing money is called? Anybody? Anybody? That's right. It's called a debt.

Trust me when I tell you this, I am not wrong about this. Like I said a good retailer knows the laws governing his business.

Minimum spend of €10 in order to use debit card @ The Academy?

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