Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

B0jangles · 05-12-2018 6:50pm

duploelabs wrote: »

John Baron

Just as a minor aside; imagine naming your child after the fake name you used in the '80s to plant puff pieces in the papers about yourself.

Igotadose · 05-12-2018 7:05pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Just as a minor aside; imagine naming your child after the fake name you used in the '80s to plant puff pieces in the papers about yourself.

We sure it's his son? Has there been a DNA test? Is there a birth certificate? Mom wasn't a US citizen so it's Dad's word vs. ICE. Of course, the kid was born in the US (I suppose - no birth certificate) so his citizenship's guaranteed... for now.

duploelabs · 05-12-2018 7:53pm

Igotadose wrote: »

We sure it's his son? Has there been a DNA test? Is there a birth certificate? Mom wasn't a US citizen so it's Dad's word vs. ICE. Of course, the kid was born in the US (I suppose - no birth certificate) so his citizenship's guaranteed... for now.

We've had one too many birther movements in the past decade thanks, no need for another

duploelabs · 05-12-2018 8:00pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Just as a minor aside; imagine naming your child after the fake name you used in the '80s to plant puff pieces in the papers about yourself.

Because he's The Donald.

There is no moral bar with him. That is one example, and practically every father would take a bullet to save their son.
But say if a certain question came up about a certain meeting in a certain tower, would he hesitate in implicating one of his sons? Not for a moment because....

He's The Donald

emptyhouse2222 · 05-12-2018 8:31pm

duploelabs wrote: »

Because he's The Donald.

There is no moral bar with him. That is one example, and practically every father would take a bullet to save their son.
But say if a certain question came up about a certain meeting in a certain tower, would he hesitate in implicating one of his sons? Not for a moment because....

He's The Donald

I feel its safe to say this is the end of trump
How can he recover from this

pixelburp · 05-12-2018 9:01pm

The end of Trump. Sticking my neck out, here and now. Donald Trump will be on the GOP ticket in 2020. He's the alpha Teflon politician, Berlusconi or Ahern on steroids and radiation. He's an awful human being but the sheer volume of deviance makes him an impossible target to find on smoking gun.

Now, maybe Mueller will eventually reveal that gun, a legal point of no return for the sitting President to remain in the White House, but I doubt it. It'd have to be something monumental to shift even the toadiest Republicans from their rigid support. It's the Sunk Cost fallacy, they've invested too much and short of murder or easily demonstrable fraud, they simply won't budge an inch.

prawnsambo · 05-12-2018 9:09pm

pixelburp wrote: »

The end of Trump. Sticking my neck out, here and now. Donald Trump will be on the GOP ticket in 2020. He's the alpha Teflon politician, Berlusconi or Ahern on steroids and radiation. He's an awful human being but the sheer volume of deviance makes him an impossible target to find on smoking gun.

Now, maybe Mueller will eventually reveal that gun, a legal point of no return for the sitting President to remain in the White House, but I doubt it. It'd have to be something monumental to shift even the toadiest Republicans from their rigid support. It's the Sunk Cost fallacy, they've invested too much and short of murder or easily demonstrable fraud, they simply won't budge an inch.

I don't think even he agrees with you. The ever increasing hysteria in his tweets point to a great deal of fear on his part.

TomOnBoard · 05-12-2018 9:30pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I agree, but I'd also point out that Flynn was only indicted on one count of making false statements which isn't the most serious crime in all the various indictments. To get zero jail time though, he must have given them something very juicy.

I dunno... My inner Solomon tells me that Michael Flynn was being hit with some serious stuff around his own shady dealings as an un-registered foreign agent and the son was facing even more peril, so Flynn fell on his sword in order to clear the decks. Don't forget that, as a retired senior Military Officer, he would have been very susceptible to appeals to his Patriotic nature once Mueller and his team had bombarded him with evidence of how his previously errant ways (arguably from a naive lack of deep thinking) could have been used/abused by the likes of Putin, Erdojan and MBS to inadvertently undermine the US. Like, Obama got rid of him as DNI because he was lacking in certain people and political smarts.

That text he allegedly sent to his Arab Nuclear Project co- conspirators was highly prejudicial, as was his cosying up to Putin on the RT gig as well as lying about where he was staying on foreign trips. Mebbe he's not actually the sharpest knife in the drawer??

TomOnBoard · 05-12-2018 9:36pm

UsedToWait wrote: »

I'd love to hear from the Trump supporters at this stage?
Still a witch hunt?
Seems to be finding bigly witches.

Nah! Lads, ye've beaten them into submission here... I reckon y'all need to re-focus yeer attention and take on the I.R.A. trolls in Petersburg.... Or mebbe Fox News.... Anyone for Breitbart or Infowars??

TomOnBoard · 05-12-2018 9:49pm

pixelburp wrote: »

The end of Trump. Sticking my neck out, here and now. Donald Trump will be on the GOP ticket in 2020. He's the alpha Teflon politician, Berlusconi or Ahern on steroids and radiation. He's an awful human being but the sheer volume of deviance makes him an impossible target to find on smoking gun.

Now, maybe Mueller will eventually reveal that gun, a legal point of no return for the sitting President to remain in the White House, but I doubt it. It'd have to be something monumental to shift even the toadiest Republicans from their rigid support. It's the Sunk Cost fallacy, they've invested too much and short of murder or easily demonstrable fraud, they simply won't budge an inch.

I dunno... I see an albeit miniscule re-framing of the GOP establishment attitude to Trump since the mid-terms. As Congressional seats come up for the 2020 contest, you'll see more and more Senators begin to hold their noses to avoid the stink. If the House Dems play smart, they can surface nuggets of kryptonite that will do a lot of damage without being so obviously on the attack that ppl get fed up with them. I don't think Trump has the strategic capability to outsmart such a precise, targeted strategy.

Like, Hannitty, Ingraham, Carlson and Judge Jeanine will self- marginalise as their rhetoric and bombast becomes ever more objectionable. I watched Hannitty's post-Flynn monologue (yes, I watch them all- my views are very well informed and are nuanced by lots of loopers on all sides) earlier and OMG, did he sound like Lord Haw Haw!!!

So, I reckon this is more the end of the beginning than it is the beginning of the end. Will Trump make 2020? My jury is still out! But they promise to return a verdict on that within a month of the new House taking their seats. At the minute, I reckon that Pelosi is the most crucial influence in U.S. politics!

pixelburp · 05-12-2018 10:47pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't think even he agrees with you. The ever increasing hysteria in his tweets point to a great deal of fear on his part.

He's not used to this level of scrutiny on his every action; I think he's cracking, but ultimately don't believe there'll be enough of a paper-trail back to him to cause him legal problems. His son and closest within his circle? Very possibly, and if so Trump's defence of his children may yet make him a political pariah, but this whole election cycle has resisted conventional wisdom - so who knows?

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I dunno... I see an albeit miniscule re-framing of the GOP establishment attitude to Trump since the mid-terms. As Congressional seats come up for the 2020 contest, you'll see more and more Senators begin to hold their noses to avoid the stink. If the House Dems play smart, they can surface nuggets of kryptonite that will do a lot of damage without being so obviously on the attack that ppl get fed up with them. I don't think Trump has the strategic capability to outsmart such a precise, targeted strategy.

I don't see it myself: there has been plenty of tacit condemnations, and twice as many hypocritical turnabouts (look at Lindsey Graham as chief quisling in that respect). Bob Corker routinely spoke out of both sides of his mouth.

Suppose the question becomes: assuming Trump was a Useful Idiot to ram through the Obamacare / taxation changes (with limited success), what's left for the Republican leadership, with weakened control of Washington?

mcmoustache · 05-12-2018 10:51pm

The last few weeks have really been something. We almost have confirmation of a conspiracy between Stone, Corsi, Credico, Malloch and Wikileaks. We almost have confirmation of Stone communicating with Trump during the campaign around the time of the wikileaks dump. We know that Trump was actively pursuing the Moscow project during the campaign. We know that he lied about it, leaving him Kompromised. We almost know that J.D Gordon claimed that Trump asked for the softening of language in the RNC platform on Ukraine. We almost know that KT McFarland was aware of Flynn's discussions on sanctions with the Russians. We know that Manafort was in debt to Deripaska and went to work for Trump for free. And of course, we all know that they all consistently lied about the Russian stuff.

I've used the word "almost" a lot there but the reporting on this so far has been quite impressive from investigative journalists so I think it's a safe bet that we'll have confirmation of these things in the near future. We also have lots of confirmation that Mueller is looking into all of the above. We have direct evidence of kompromat (Trump Tower Moscow) already. Add all the rest of the weird Russian coincidences (and there are loads) and we're not far away from direct evidence of a quid-pro-quo.

And that's all without getting into the so-called procedural crimes like lying to the fbi and obstruction of justice. Anyone still think that this is some hoax by butt-hurt dems?

prawnsambo · 05-12-2018 11:08pm

pixelburp wrote: »

He's not used to this level of scrutiny on his every action; I think he's cracking, but ultimately don't believe there'll be enough of a paper-trail back to him to cause him legal problems. His son and closest within his circle? Very possibly, and if so Trump's defence of his children may yet make him a political pariah, but this whole election cycle has resisted conventional wisdom - so who knows?

Nothing I've seen of heard so far would lead me to believe that these characters are the sharpest knives in the drawer. If there isn't a paper trail or significant intelligence on the who, what and when I'll eat my hat. John Oliver's description of it as 'stupid watergate' is bang on.

TomOnBoard · 06-12-2018 12:55am

mcmoustache wrote: »

The last few weeks have really been something. We almost have confirmation of a conspiracy between Stone, Corsi, Credico, Malloch and Wikileaks. We almost have confirmation of Stone communicating with Trump during the campaign around the time of the wikileaks dump. We know that Trump was actively pursuing the Moscow project during the campaign. We know that he lied about it, leaving him Kompromised. We almost know that J.D Gordon claimed that Trump asked for the softening of language in the RNC platform on Ukraine. We almost know that KT McFarland was aware of Flynn's discussions on sanctions with the Russians. We know that Manafort was in debt to Deripaska and went to work for Trump for free. And of course, we all know that they all consistently lied about the Russian stuff.

I've used the word "almost" a lot there but the reporting on this so far has been quite impressive from investigative journalists so I think it's a safe bet that we'll have confirmation of these things in the near future. We also have lots of confirmation that Mueller is looking into all of the above. We have direct evidence of kompromat (Trump Tower Moscow) already. Add all the rest of the weird Russian coincidences (and there are loads) and we're not far away from direct evidence of a quid-pro-quo.

And that's all without getting into the so-called procedural crimes like lying to the fbi and obstruction of justice. Anyone still think that this is some hoax by butt-hurt dems?

The so-called procedural crimes have already produced a rafter of turkeys who have lined up to be plucked... It's gas to see the likes of Hannitty complaining that Mueller is being in some way unfair by prosecuting such crimes... Like, is it sooo totally unknown to these ppl that a procedural crime would be prosecuted?? Oh, No! It's sooooo unfair!!!

Noooooooo, Asshole! What's soooooo unfair is a 17 year old lad with no previous record being charged with felony possession of a controlled substance in Mississippi, with a multi-year term of penal servitude given to him, for holding a quantity of a product that is perfectly legal to hold in many other States in yeer so-called Union of States that are collectively, allegedly, the "Land of the Free" and the "Home of the Brave"...

Edit: apologies... Got side-tracked on a rant while I was trying to make a point about stuff reported by Michael Ishikoff...

TomOnBoard · 06-12-2018 1:19am

mcmoustache wrote: »

The last few weeks have really been something. We almost have confirmation of a conspiracy between Stone, Corsi, Credico, Malloch and Wikileaks. We almost have confirmation of Stone communicating with Trump during the campaign around the time of the wikileaks dump. We know that Trump was actively pursuing the Moscow project during the campaign. We know that he lied about it, leaving him Kompromised. We almost know that J.D Gordon claimed that Trump asked for the softening of language in the RNC platform on Ukraine. We almost know that KT McFarland was aware of Flynn's discussions on sanctions with the Russians. We know that Manafort was in debt to Deripaska and went to work for Trump for free. And of course, we all know that they all consistently lied about the Russian stuff.

I've used the word "almost" a lot there but the reporting on this so far has been quite impressive from investigative journalists so I think it's a safe bet that we'll have confirmation of these things in the near future. We also have lots of confirmation that Mueller is looking into all of the above. We have direct evidence of kompromat (Trump Tower Moscow) already. Add all the rest of the weird Russian coincidences (and there are loads) and we're not far away from direct evidence of a quid-pro-quo.

And that's all without getting into the so-called procedural crimes like lying to the fbi and obstruction of justice. Anyone still think that this is some hoax by butt-hurt dems?

Sry.. Got side- tracked earlier....

I would add to your 'Almosts' by throwing The Panama Papers (PP) into the mix.

While neither Putin,Trump nor many of the other Mueller-possible subjects have figured as named PP subjects, I reckon that they're almost there...

I reckon that the principals have arranged their affairs such that they could benefit from the benefits of the laundering schemes on offer, but kept themselves 1 step removed from the action through cutouts.

Why do I think that?

Simply because Deutsche Bank(DB) in Germany was raided by authorities on the PP case there, within days of the 1st ever prosecution on PP-related charges of 4 individuals in the US, aaaand a subpoena that was issued to the Trump Organisation a year ago in this space, aaaaand the belief that DB has acted both for Russian Oligarchs by providing Money Laundering services and both Trump and Kuchner organisations by providing loan financing..

Am I stretching facts? Possibly...
Am I almost there? Possibly...

aloyisious · 06-12-2018 2:49am

I'd like one player to be collared by the investigation and that's Julian Assange, bringing it all back to the leaks. I know their veracity has been debunked but it would help close off one angle if the source was confirmed.

In respect of signs that the end was nearing, I'd only sit up and take notice on the day that one or more close members of the Trump family take an extended visit from the U.S to another diplomatically very friendly country. Until then, in respect to who's door is knocked on next, i'll take each investigative days events as they come.

kilns · 06-12-2018 9:38am

Huge moment for Trump today, the Hauwei CFO has been been arrested for breaching sanctions with Iran, if she is not released this could be seen as a sign as a declaration of economic war and despite what the Americans tell you, the Chinese are in a very strong position

Gbear · 06-12-2018 10:30am

kilns wrote: »

Huge moment for Trump today, the Hauwei CFO has been been arrested for breaching sanctions with Iran, if she is not released this could be seen as a sign as a declaration of economic war and despite what the Americans tell you, the Chinese are in a very strong position

She was arrested in Canada though.

I don't think Canada recognise the sanctions against Iran, so she may not be extradited to the US. They may not consider the warrant valid.

Kiith · 06-12-2018 10:48am

The only arrested her after the US extradition request, didn't they? If not, why did Canada arrest her in the first place?

mcmoustache · 06-12-2018 11:21am

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I reckon that the principals have arranged their affairs such that they could benefit from the benefits of the laundering schemes on offer, but kept themselves 1 step removed from the action through cutouts.

Why do I think that?

Simply because Deutsche Bank(DB) in Germany was raided by authorities on the PP case there, within days of the 1st ever prosecution on PP-related charges of 4 individuals in the US, aaaand a subpoena that was issued to the Trump Organisation a year ago in this space, aaaaand the belief that DB has acted both for Russian Oligarchs by providing Money Laundering services and both Trump and Kuchner organisations by providing loan financing..

Am I stretching facts? Possibly...
Am I almost there? Possibly...

The timing of this was interesting. There's a lot of overlap between between people in Trump's orbit and people mentioned in the Panama papers. And there's also the small matter of Deutsche Bank being fond of money laundering and also being one of the few institutions to lend to Trump who is also suspected of money laundering.

It's too early to say if the Deutsche Bank raids are related but I would not be surprised if they were.

kilns · 06-12-2018 11:39am

Kiith wrote: »

The only arrested her after the US extradition request, didn't they? If not, why did Canada arrest her in the first place?

Correct, its a huge issue and the market is going to tank again today like Tuesday because of it

I think Trumps ego loves the fact he can move the markets with just one tweet but Wall Street wont tolerate this volatility for long (although a lot of money can be made day trading it)

everlast75 · 06-12-2018 11:44am

For me, I reckon he is toast... and soon. (My previous estimate of Christmas is proving to be a little optimistic.. despite all logic pointing to him being impeached/resigning)

It's worth looking at the current state of play. This is from memory - I'm sure I've missed something.

Anyhoo, it is only a matter of time before

*Donny Jnr is indicted
*Stone is subpoenaed
*Collusion report is released to Dem House

The Obstruction report will be later, but even more clear and damning in my opinion

We already have
*Cohen cooperating
*McGhan cooperating
*Flynn cooperating
*Gates cooperating
*Weisselberg cooperating
*David Pecker cooperating

that we know of

We have the following cases against Trump
*Stormy Daniels
*Summer Zervos
*Emoluments clause cases

We know, thanks to the Flynn memo, there are two other criminal matters in which he is cooperating which may or may not be relating to Trump.

His AG is in trouble, in that there are cases brought against his legitimacy, and despite his appointment, it looks like he is not protecting Trump or shutting down the investigation, which was the only reason for his appointment.

We were told that his finances were a read line, yet we know
*The emoluments case will lead to their release
*The dems will be seeking his tax returns come January

We have
* a spiralling deficit
* record breaking gains by Dems in the House
* indications that Manafort's JDA has backfired on Trump and his answers may now be contrary to what others have said
* one of the most successful and efficient run Special Counsel's investigation in history

We have/will have
*investigations into Trump's financial ties with Russia
*investigations into Trump's financial ties with Turkey
*investigations into Trump's financial ties with Saudi Arabia

We will have
*Manafort's memo released soon which will release as much info to the public as Mueller wants to
*Comey's evidence released soon

Again - that's what we know of and we are at least six months behind Mueller.

I can see a situation where Trump might get to 2020, but the idea that he will get to go again to me seems beyond impossible.

Pelvis · 06-12-2018 11:47am

I don't think anything will happen to Don Jr until Don Snr is no longer President, otherwise he'll just issue a pardon.

everlast75 · 06-12-2018 11:50am

Pelvis wrote: »

I don't think anything will happen to Don Jr until Don Snr is no longer President, otherwise he'll just issue a pardon.

If he issues a pardon in respect of an indictment for lying to congress, then Donny Jnr cannot plead the 5th and will be called in to give evidence again.

Plus, pardons only cover federal crimes. Any state crimes cannot be pardoned. That may apply to Trump Inc charges

TomOnBoard · 06-12-2018 12:14pm

kilns wrote: »

Correct, its a huge issue and the market is going to tank again today like Tuesday because of it

I think Trumps ego loves the fact he can move the markets with just one tweet but Wall Street wont tolerate this volatility for long (although a lot of money can be made day trading it)

And would you be surprised if those in Trump's orbit are doing exactly that, i.e. playing day futures knowing what is exciting Trump today which will result in a tweet overnight with consequent likely effects on the markets being played.

TomOnBoard · 06-12-2018 12:20pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Anyhoo, it is only a matter of time before

*Donny Jnr is indicted

Add:
Jared is indicted
Stone flips to Mueller
Ivanka is embroiled in the Moscow deal
...

everlast75 · 06-12-2018 12:29pm

aloyisious wrote: »

Double-agenting wearing a wire?

mcmoustache wrote: »

He could be asked to do so or to record his phone conversations as part of the plea deal. That's not to say that it happened - just that he could have been.

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps...

https://twitter.com/HillReporter/status/1070321863241404418

eagle eye · 06-12-2018 12:34pm

I haven't posted much in these Trump threads recently but there is a huge amount of people that want him to be impeached or just that he is forced to step down.
I'm no fan of Donald Trump, I've been accused of it, but I don't want to see him gone at least until the end of his term. The reason for this is Mike Pence who worries me greatly. I think World War 3 could easily happen with him at the helm.

looksee · 06-12-2018 12:38pm

True, there is a bit of an element of 'better the fool that you know than the devil you don't know'.

Professor Moriarty · 06-12-2018 12:38pm

everlast75 wrote: »

For me, I reckon he is toast... and soon. (My previous estimate of Christmas is proving to be a little optimistic.. despite all logic pointing to him being impeached/resigning)

It's worth looking at the current state of play. This is from memory - I'm sure I've missed something.

Anyhoo, it is only a matter of time before

*Donny Jnr is indicted
*Stone is subpoenaed
*Collusion report is released to Dem House

The Obstruction report will be later, but even more clear and damning in my opinion

We already have
*Cohen cooperating
*McGhan cooperating
*Flynn cooperating
*Gates cooperating
*Weisselberg cooperating
*David Pecker cooperating

that we know of

We have the following cases against Trump
*Stormy Daniels
*Summer Zervos
*Emoluments clause cases

We know, thanks to the Flynn memo, there are two other criminal matters in which he is cooperating which may or may not be relating to Trump.

His AG is in trouble, in that there are cases brought against his legitimacy, and despite his appointment, it looks like he is not protecting Trump or shutting down the investigation, which was the only reason for his appointment.

We were told that his finances were a read line, yet we know
*The emoluments case will lead to their release
*The dems will be seeking his tax returns come January

We have
* a spiralling deficit
* record breaking gains by Dems in the House
* indications that Manafort's JDA has backfired on Trump and his answers may now be contrary to what others have said
* one of the most successful and efficient run Special Counsel's investigation in history

We have/will have
*investigations into Trump's financial ties with Russia
*investigations into Trump's financial ties with Turkey
*investigations into Trump's financial ties with Saudi Arabia

We will have
*Manafort's memo released soon which will release as much info to the public as Mueller wants to
*Comey's evidence released soon

Again - that's what we know of and we are at least six months behind Mueller.

I can see a situation where Trump might get to 2020, but the idea that he will get to go again to me seems beyond impossible.

On Whitaker, I imagine that he has been briefed on Mueller's investigation at this stage. My guess is that he now knows what's in there and doesn't want to be seen as the one who shuts it down especially as it will all come out soon regardless. I expect 'Worst ever AG' tweets from the Donald any day now.

Professor Moriarty · 06-12-2018 12:39pm

looksee wrote: »

True, there is a bit of an element of 'better the fool that you know than the devil your don't know'.

No. The Donald is doing far more damage than Pence could ever do.

everlast75 · 06-12-2018 12:42pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

No. The Donald is doing far more damage than Pence could ever do.

Agreed.

Trump's only things going for him are his "wealth", "fame", bluster, being an "outsider" and ability to whip up a crowd.

Pence has none of these.

TomOnBoard · 06-12-2018 12:46pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

No. The Donald is doing far more damage than Pence could ever do.

I dunno... Pence is a Slieveen.. With Trump, the damage is mostly resulting from blundering... With Pence, it would be much less visible but more targeted... More Putin-like...

Professor Moriarty · 06-12-2018 12:51pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I dunno... Pence is a Slieveen.. With Trump, the damage is mostly resulting from blundering... With Pence, it would be much less visible but more targeted... More Putin-like...

He is indeed, as are many GOP politicians sadly, but he is much more mainstream than The Donald and would (will) be far less impulsive - being a long time politician. The Donald is impetuously and dangerously serving his Ego only and is incapable of doing anything other than take a massive populist dump all over the office of POTUS and US politics in general.

pixelburp · 06-12-2018 12:53pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I haven't posted much in these Trump threads recently but there is a huge amount of people that want him to be impeached or just that he is forced to step down.
I'm no fan of Donald Trump, I've been accused of it, but I don't want to see him gone at least until the end of his term. The reason for this is Mike Pence who worries me greatly. I think World War 3 could easily happen with him at the helm.

Pence would be a lame-duck, placeholder president though. Let's assume Trump was given the heave-ho (as I said I don't believe it, but hey) and Pence is installed: with Congress in Democrat hands and the tide very much against the administration, Pence would have to be insane to attempt any kind of bold, decisive move. As powerful as the Christian Evangelical movement is in the US, I don't believe Pence would be the right flavour to run as a 2020 candidate either; apart from anything else, the man has a critical absence of charisma to sway the middle and his noted positions on abortion and gay rights would only further erode that middle support.

8-10 · 06-12-2018 12:56pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I dunno... Pence is a Slieveen.. With Trump, the damage is mostly resulting from blundering... With Pence, it would be much less visible but more targeted... More Putin-like...

Pence is a predictable conservative with clear views on issues (whether you agree with him or not)

I don't think he'd do much damage at all to be honest, certainly wouldn't compare him to Putin

Penn · 06-12-2018 1:01pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Pence would be a lame-duck, placeholder president though. Let's assume Trump was given the heave-ho (as I said I don't believe it, but hey) and Pence is installed: with Congress in Democrat hands and the tide very much against the administration, Pence would have to be insane to attempt any kind of bold, decisive move. As powerful as the Christian Evangelical movement is in the US, I don't believe Pence would be the right flavour to run as a 2020 candidate either; apart from anything else, the man has a critical absence of charisma to sway the middle and his noted positions on abortion and gay rights would only further erode that middle support.

I agree. I don't think Pence would be able to push too many buttons as both he and the GOP will be covered in sh*t from Trump's downfall if it were to happen. Their best chance of survival for a 2020 vote would be to do nothing in any way controversial or rocking the boat in any way and try play it all nice for 2020.

circadian · 06-12-2018 1:03pm

There's no way this house of cards falls and Pence comes out on top. He knew about Flynn but, as far as we know, didn't report it to the FBI. Maybe he did? I get the feeling he didn't.

prawnsambo · 06-12-2018 1:04pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I haven't posted much in these Trump threads recently but there is a huge amount of people that want him to be impeached or just that he is forced to step down.
I'm no fan of Donald Trump, I've been accused of it, but I don't want to see him gone at least until the end of his term. The reason for this is Mike Pence who worries me greatly. I think World War 3 could easily happen with him at the helm.

Not sure Mike Pence would escape the net. It really depends on what he knows, but he was an important figure in the transition team and that's when a lot of questionable stuff went on. Putting aside what happened before the election, which he was also a key figure in.

Quin_Dub · 06-12-2018 1:12pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Not sure Mike Pence would escape the net. It really depends on what he knows, but he was an important figure in the transition team and that's when a lot of questionable stuff went on. Putting aside what happened before the election, which he was also a key figure in.

He was after all , recommended for the VP role by Paul Manafort..

Might be something, might be nothing.. But so far all the somethings have turned out to be somethings in the end..

aloyisious · 06-12-2018 1:13pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

On Whitaker, I imagine that he has been briefed on Mueller's investigation at this stage. My guess is that he now knows what's in there and doesn't want to be seen as the one who shuts it down especially as it will all come out soon regardless. I expect 'Worst ever AG' tweets from the Donald any day now.

Good point. If he was briefed, then Whitaker 's freedom of movement with info he's legally aware of is compromised. I'm not sure if the AG in the U.S is, or is not, in the same position as our AG, legal advisor to the Govt and not specifically to the president alone under their constitution. He can't run and say to Don what he knows if it is in respect to Don as the head of a criminal conspiracy. Try to shut it down & he's liable to entanglement in the same conspiracy.

In reality, officially and otherwise, he's only a stand-in for the eventual appointee and he know's that that status would tell if any of his decisions were appealed to U.S.S.C. Before decision-making he's probably thinking "why should I have my legacy ruined and be hung out to dry as a sacrifice at the whim of an ego".

aloyisious · 06-12-2018 1:28pm

I'm going to do a bit of supposing here in respect of Vlad. There's been any number of stories that his political future in Russia is rocky. If he was dumped it would be of advantage to his successor to reveal to the U.S what Vlad had been doing with Don in order to curry favour with a replacement for Don from either the GOP or the Dems. The revelations could be made publicly officially via a show-trial. If this was done, then ALL of Dons allies, overt and covert, could be sunk.

Most of the debate in respect of Don and his senior [past and present] Admin team and Personal friends is in respect to their knowledge of his deeds. Imagine the effect of Vlad's knowledge of, and any complicity in, Don's deeds getting into the media or before a senate committee. What's happened to date would probably be only a side-show.

amandstu · 06-12-2018 2:31pm

What curry flavour?

everlast75 · 06-12-2018 4:19pm

News breaking that the "boyfriend" of Maria Butina, a Russian lady accused of being a spy and is awaiting trial on those charges, has been sent a letter advising him that he may be the target of an investigation.

I was recently reminded that Trump, while campaigning, never once mentioned lifting sanctions on Russia, until he was asked a question at a press conference on the trail. The person who asked the question? Maria Butina.

Quin_Dub · 06-12-2018 4:34pm

everlast75 wrote: »

News breaking that the "boyfriend" of Maria Butina, a Russian lady accused of being a spy and is awaiting trial on those charges, has been sent a letter advising him that he may be the target of an investigation.

I was recently reminded that Trump, while campaigning, never once mentioned lifting sanctions on Russia, until he was asked a question at a press conference on the trail. The person who asked the question? Maria Butina.

By who , Mueller?

everlast75 · 06-12-2018 4:37pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

By who , Mueller?

The feds...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/feds-target-butinas-gop-boyfriend-as-foreign-agent

demfad · 06-12-2018 5:03pm

everlast75 wrote: »

The feds...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/feds-target-butinas-gop-boyfriend-as-foreign-agent

Erikson's will be charged with "Espionage Lite" as described in the article.

Maria Butina set up "The Right To Bear Arms" in Russia with the objective of infiltarting the NRA. Her protegee Alexandr Torshin was made a NRA life member and he is reported to have funnelled $13 million into the NRA which went on to Reoublican campaigners.

This is being investigated too.

Russian infiltration and hyper-corruption of Western Capitalism through its global money laundering activities over many years have made operations like the above a lot easier.

(Evangelical Christianism influenced through World congress of families.)

In a Free market scenario democratic capitalism was bound to slide towards Fascism eventually. In a world with players using State Capitalism (China) and Mafia State corrupt capitalism (Russia) the slide gets steeper.

In a Chess game scenario Russia was literally moving its own pieces and the USs to facilitate the operation that is being uncovered.

everlast75 · 06-12-2018 7:05pm

Looks like a deal has been reached with Butina.

Whether it is a co-op agreement (and this poster thinks) or a spy swap with Russia, we will see

https://twitter.com/Verbaljungle/status/1070722253686497283?s=19

spacecoyote · 06-12-2018 8:29pm

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/12/trump-nra-campaign-coordination/

Another potential angle on the campaign financing laws during the election, this time between the NRA and the Trump campaign.

In essence they were using the same media company to place ads in the same time slots on the same channels with messages that reinforce each other. There is no issue with someone putting out a positive add, but if it's coordinated than it's classed as a campaign contribution & can't exceed $5000, which the ads comfortably did

serfboard · 06-12-2018 8:33pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Looks like a deal has been reached with Butina.

That same person on Twitter (Verbaljungle) re-tweeted this
The article says:

AP wrote:

Ecuador’s president has ramped up pressure on Julian Assange to leave his country’s embassy in London, saying that Britain had provided sufficient guarantees that the WikiLeaks founder won’t be extradited to face the death penalty abroad.
...
“The road is clear for Mr. Assange to take the decision to leave,” Moreno said, referring to written assurances he said he had received from Britain.
...
Nothing is preventing [Britain] from extraditing him to the U.S. if prosecutors there were to pledge not to seek the death penalty.

Assange has long maintained the he faces charges under seal in the U.S for revealing highly sensitive government information on his website.

Those fears were heightened when U.S prosecutors last month mistakenly referenced criminal charges against him in an unrelated case.

[Several] outlets have reported that Assange is indeed facing unspecified charges under seal, but prosecutors have so far provided no official confirmation.

They might pledge not to seek the death penalty - but that doesn't mean that they won't lock him up for the rest of his life.

There's another interesting part that I didn't know about:

AP wrote:

[Assange] was granted citizenship last year as part of an apparent attempt to name him a diplomat and ferry him to Russia

Cue Vald organising a commando unit to extract him from the Embassy ...

Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

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