BEEP (Beef Environmental Efficiency Pilot Scheme)

I see some merit in a nationwide system.
I couldn’t see details on one thing though, how many cows and weanlings need to be measured before the factory prices top €4 ?? Because that’s really what’s needed to bring profitability.

Anything that doesn’t bring actual profitability is just distracting from the issue. Even if this eventually results in poorer performing cows being removed, the prices aren’t enough to sustain the industry.

Personally I don’t think this is anything to get excited by, it’s crumbs being thrown to beef farmers to keep them quiet and busy and takes pressure off the need to address the hard problems while the end processors and retailers gorge themselves on the profit made on the backs of farmers.

I would love to see a breakdown of the profit share in the kill of a 600kg animal. A correlation between hours input Vs share of the profit from the animal, I think it would tell a sad story.

patsy_mccabe wrote:

There was a few lads at that crack in the pedigree limousin game. Very big bulls for their age. The society payed them a surprise visit. They are no longer in the society.

I know we should never make general statements but generally it lads that show mess with dates. On the Angus side 3 or 4 years ago they introduced weighing for calves at all Ireland and also for Aldi bull class where final at iverk. There have been a number of calves kicked out due to weight gains....it has also resulted in a few better known breeders no longer taking part

Taking Brian point above, one very simple way of improving the price paid for suckler bred stock would be to change the grid system slightly. instead of a flat 6 cent between each different grade there should be a % difference of say 2.5% which would be 10 cent at €4 a kg. At the minute there is a big difference in an animal grading an R+ and an animal grading an O+ but at the end of the day there is usually less then €100 if weights are similar.

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It's 500,000 calves. The budgeted cost is €20m/year

We had about 850K suckler cows. The running average is 0.8 calves/cow/year. Now it is expect that due to fodder lads will cull cows not in calf and older cows this year. But give it tht 800K cow calf down next year and calf/cow rate slightly improves it will mean 650K calves eligible for the scheme. They are only expecting a 75% application rate at a guess it will be above that. If 85% comply with the terms then if they stick to the budget payment will be down 10%.

There is a load of BS going on about the scheme. Think like co-ops provinding scales for rent. Scales that are lugged around in car trailers (a scales will be 8-9' long) will need to be recalibrated each time by co-op. When I did the sums on the price of a scales earlier I gave a 800 euro costs of a scales I was working on the assumption that lads used the grant scheme to buy a scales and drew the vat back. I cannot see a scales rental scheme working even if it dose expect the cost to be in the region of 60-80/day inc vat especially if scales have to be recalibrated and cleaned after every use.It will be hard to access a scales on a Saturday and a situation is you could be tallotted a day ie you could be told it was available to you Thursday week and had to be returned Friday before 10am. You arrive Thursday after taking a half day at 2 pm to be told Johnny has not returned it and they cannot contact him.

Are ye trying to find fault in the scheme where there isnt any?
There isnt much to a weighing scales one way or the other.
To 'calibrate' the scales, stand up on it and its unlikely to be 10 or 20 kilos wrong so at most its going to be +or-10kilos. Which usnt a big variation in a cows weight

charolais0153 wrote: »

Are ye trying to find fault in the scheme where there isnt any?
There isnt much to a weighing scales one way or the other.
To 'calibrate' the scales, stand up on it and its unlikely to be 10 or 20 kilos wrong so at most its going to be +or-10kilos. Which usnt a big variation in a cows weight

If a scales is 10kg out at 80kg, then it could be out 100kg at 800kg. Calibration can be out, in different ways. I had the respnsibility for cabibrating scales before in a factory. They basically come with accurate dead weights and load them up on the scales. So for 1000kg scales, they have to lug that weight around with them. A lot of expense. Most factories check calibration every year.
(Not talking about meat factories, by the way).

charolais0153 wrote: »

Are ye trying to find fault in the scheme where there isnt any?
There isnt much to a weighing scales one way or the other.
To 'calibrate' the scales, stand up on it and its unlikely to be 10 or 20 kilos wrong so at most its going to be +or-10kilos. Which usnt a big variation in a cows weight

No scales will be out a fixed amount it will be out a percentage. My own scales is out about 6-7% weighting too light. On a 200kgs it is 12-14kgs but on a 330 kg weanling it would be over 20kgs I check it using bags of ration. I can calculate LW fairly accurate in my head if weighting cattle That is not a problem but if you are a commercial entity renting such a piece of equipment you will have to have it working right.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, a scales is a very delicate piece of equipment. Not meant to be lugged around the countryside. At the same time, it seems crazy to have every suckler farmer with one, even with say a generous 50% grant.

Tempting all the same if there was a reasonable grant and the VAT back. If it lasted 10 years, you'd get a bit of value out of it around the place. The co-op plan is a joke.

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

That's going on wholesale with the Ag budget, Bass. Last year there was a low cost loan scheme announced for this year. This year it's after being announced again with a few million more added to it but now it's not available until next year. But you can bet the announced figure will appear in any calculations about money to Ag this year.



And that's if the money will all actually be paid on that BEEP scheme next year. There will be an announcement early next year that there will be probably a May/June final application date, all figures must be in probably by November and no payment will issue till 2020. So the payment will be made in 2020 but the scheme money will be found in the Government petty cash box to spend anywhere else other than Ag.



The whole system is fcuked up, tbh.

I can't see this scheme saving the poor old suckler cow anyhow but I suppose Creed can say he did something after it if it makes him feel better

Incorrectly calibrated scales are useless, this isn’t a mechanism like a mechanical scales that’s 10kg out at 80kg and 10kg our at 500kg

If a strain gauge is damaged by someone hammering it about back roads in a trailer then that’s the scales fooked until it’s replaced. The error in calibration isn’t always linear, so 10kg out at 80kg could be 80, 100 or 200 at 500kg.
If you’ve seen a digital scales calibrated it’s done in regular weights up to near the max to make sure it weighs linear and true.

Willfarman wrote:

This kind of notion angers me. The greater tonnage of beef is always going to be lower grading carcasses. Cheapening the greater tonnage as the grid has thus far cheapens the base for all beef. Feeling smug that your yellow bullock got a big premium over that bad black and white bullock owned by that bad farmer still won’t have you over the cost of production and making money. Dairy bred beef is prime British retail beef and is being robbed as it is.

The only way to ensure ALL beef producers get a fair price for their product is to enshrine in law that a percentage of the retail price of the carcase is paid to the primary producer.

This is ignoring the fact we are not paid for the 5th quarter.

_Brian wrote: »

Incorrectly calibrated scales are useless, this isn’t a mechanism like a mechanical scales that’s 10kg out at 80kg and 10kg our at 500kg

If a strain gauge is damaged by someone hammering it about back roads in a trailer then that’s the scales fooked until it’s replaced. The error in calibration isn’t always linear, so 10kg out at 80kg could be 80, 100 or 200 at 500kg.
If you’ve seen a digital scales calibrated it’s done in regular weights up to near the max to make sure it weighs linear and true.

Ya, your right about numerous weights. It's over 15 years since I did one.

brianb243 wrote: »

Anyone know how the new scheme works as in:
1)Where will they be weighed?
2)How will this info be uploaded?
3) How will it be verified?
4) How much to weigh each beast?

It’s early days yet, probably have teagasc / advisors rolling out talks on it soon

I think you’ll have to be signed up to herdplus & load the data there.

Hold out until more details are given

Looks like the cows and calves only need to be weighed once, unless I am reading it wrong. This might convince me to sign-up. I will only have a small number to do so initially was thinking that it wouldn't be worth all the hassle, but if it's only one day then that's a different story.

Grueller wrote: »

Can any mans own scales be registered for use with the scheme or do you have to use one of the rented ones?

You can use your own scales or a neighbours but the scales have to be registered with ICBF and are given a number which goes with the application.
ICBF can inspect these scales also.