Journalism and cycling

Thinkingaboutit · 19-02-2019 1:00pm

Borderfox wrote: »

The "advanced driver" Bob was like a dog with a bone last night, shocking attitude from a supposedly better trained motorist

When I read 'advanced driver' I see in my mind's eye, this or that Autocar columnist or letter writer of yore lamenting that a skilful driver like the writer penalised for driving near to 90 mph on a motorway, ie an over-aggressive driver with an unlimited sense of entitlement.

Duckjob · 19-02-2019 1:09pm

mr spuckler wrote: »

yep, the tone of their engagement on Twitter last night shows a massive change from just a couple of months ago. long may it last.

Perhaps more than a touch of guilt and embarrassment over the RSA expert / busy bee nonsense.

magicbastarder · 19-02-2019 2:12pm

'advanced driver' = 'owns an MG and a pair of leather driving gloves, thinks power steering is a terrible thing because it ruins the true driving experience'.

ednwireland · 19-02-2019 2:23pm

the biggest problem cycling round donegal is car drivers thinking that its ok to squeeze past on a narrow road without slowing down first.
i would cycle around there often if people knocked a bit of speed off it would be fine.

but had a driver on sunday was blown out onto the road on a narrow road so a driver thought ot was ok to toot there horn at me to get out of the way rather than just waiting until i sorted myself out, heard her and got out of the way , my language wasnt sunday morning appropriate i can tell you.

07Lapierre · 19-02-2019 2:34pm

I was disappointed that the family in Donegal didn’t highlight the fact that although they were wearin Hi viz Jackets and helmets, they still experienced close passes, or “the squeeze” as they called it!

Overall it was a good program and certainly made me very envious of people who cycle in Copenhagen!

07Lapierre · 19-02-2019 2:42pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

mr spuckler wrote: »

so I don't think there'd have been an issue but who knows?

I think its the 'who knows' bit seems to be part of the problem. In your case the Gardai were willing to prosecute on the basis of video evidence. In others they seem to say there is nothing they can do when presented with same. There doesn't seem to be any legal guidelines on the use of dashcams, helmet cams and their use in court for prosecutions as yet. There was a time years back when CCTV wasn't allowed to be used in courts but thats all changed now. Dash & helmet cams seem to be in that legal space right now that CCTV once was.

It's oft said that the Gardai can't be on every street corner. But when you think about the thousands of people using dash & helmet cams they have the potential to be a very powerful policing tool. They can literally increase the ability of AGS to detect road traffic offences several thousand fold. Its a no brainer to use them imo.

That’s an interesting point. If CCTV footage is admissible in court, why isn’t dash cam footage given the same status?

magicbastarder · 19-02-2019 2:45pm

maybe it's something to do with the fact that to install/maintain CCTV, you need a licence - perhaps CCTV footage from a licenced system carries more credibility than a dashcam?

07Lapierre · 19-02-2019 2:46pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

at1withmyself wrote: »

Not sure of the total number but a neighbor passed away from a bicycle malfunction so that's at least one.

I give up though, I thought it was good and if people are going to find fault with doing a safety check for 30 seconds then so be it....

Ah. The old if it saves one life. Let’s ban everything to save one life.

People who look after their bikes will continues to do so. On the flip side, people who don’t are very unlikely to start because some RSA person said to do it.

We had a kid turn up for a club spin (accompanied by his dad) and his front brake had no brake pads fitted!

Experienced cyclists will check their bikes but even a quick scan of this cycling forum and you’ll see examples of bikes very poorly maintained.

magicbastarder · 19-02-2019 2:49pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

We had a kid turn up for a club spin (accompanied by his dad) and his front drake had no brake pads fitted!

a drake applying brakes properly:

mr spuckler · 19-02-2019 2:56pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe it's something to do with the fact that to install/maintain CCTV, you need a licence - perhaps CCTV footage from a licenced system carries more credibility than a dashcam?

I don't know - it seems extremely inconsistent in that the Gardaí ask for dashcam footage after collisions, armed robberies etc yet claim that they couldn't trust bike camera footage because it might be edited. then they turn around and accept mine with no questions asked!

I think if you make a sworn statement saying that the video evidence submitted is unedited then they'd be accusing you of falsifying evidence or contempt of court if they suggested it might have been tampered with...that's a pretty rocky path to go down!

zell12 · 19-02-2019 3:14pm

Liveline callers criticising RSA ads on motorist road deaths, now
apparently too graphic

CramCycle · 19-02-2019 3:46pm

zell12 wrote: »

Liveline callers criticising RSA ads on motorist road deaths, now
apparently too graphic

I actually thought it was a great ad and only graphic in how it brought the point home. The father who lost his wife and child, christ of almighty that packed a punch to the gut but like everything, i doubt it made one iota of difference to a poor drivers behaviour.

Cetyl Palmitate · 19-02-2019 3:49pm

https://castbox.fm/vb/129372650

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1jCg3Ma8NckFE4HnKsR2Mz?si=hCMWCNgcSFykU-TPqi019Q

Interesting podcast on the history of infrastructure funding.
It contains some interesting details on the powerful US cycling lobby of the 19th century, the league of American wheelmen, being overtaken by the motorcar lobby of the early 20th century.
Also contains a history of policy making differences in post war Europe and USA.

zell12 · 19-02-2019 3:49pm

RSA CEO Moya Murdock currently live on Liveline

Fian · 19-02-2019 4:18pm

zell12 wrote: »

RSA CEO Moya Murdock currently live on Liveline

And what did she say?

Muahahaha · 19-02-2019 4:51pm

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Possibly the word "audit" creates that impression, whereas if she had said "Look will ya check that your brakes are working and your trouser leg isn't going to catch in your chain" it might have been less of a big deal.

I think its just the usual 'elf and safety gone overboard. Its similar with motorbiking, anyone gone through the biking tests will remember learning the acronym Powder BC which is an eight point check of petrol, oil, water, damage, electrics, rubber, brakes and cables that you are told to do every time before you get on the motorbike. I seriously doubt anyone actually does it but you have to know it to pass the test.

Anyway I thought the program last night was decent enough. Also I was surprised to learn that it is not just a one off feature as I thought but its actually a series of four programs. That's a fair undertaking by RTE on the subject of cycling/vulnerable road users, they are giving it the attention it needs so kudos where its deserved. Hopefully over the four programs it will finally provide some balance to the way the likes of Newstalk cover cycling knowing well their audience is all motorists stuck in evening traffic.

Corca Baiscinn · 19-02-2019 5:53pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

Overall it was a good program and certainly made me very envious of people who cycle in Copenhagen!

Yea, by end of Programme 4 we'll all have decamped to Copenhagen, Seville, Eindhoven and Amsterdam but sure with only a quarter of us in each city, we can sneak in and they wont really notice!

magicbastarder · 19-02-2019 6:18pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyway I thought the program last night was decent enough.

agreed, and as it was more than just the motorists vs. cyclists stuff, e.g. talking to leisure cyclists who use it for health and social benefits, it helps normalise cycling.

the only issue i have with the program is that those likely to benefit most from it are probably those least likely to watch it.

07Lapierre · 19-02-2019 6:30pm

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Yea, by end of Programme 4 we'll all have decamped to Copenhagen, Seville, Eindhoven and Amsterdam but sure with only a quarter of us in each city, we can sneak in and they wont really notice!

What really struck me was how Normal cycling in Copenhagen is! No helmets, No Hi-Viz, Young, Old, Male, Female, Kids on bikes, Kids in cargo bikes etc. etc.....everyone cycles!

the key points from the programme for me were:

1. There has to be a will/desire from the general public to make change happen.
2. Segregated cycle ways that keep interaction between Bikes and cars to a minimum.
3. where there is interaction, bikes are given their own traffic lights, priorities etc.
4. Enforcement! Enforcement of the ROTR for cyclists, motorists and pedestrians.

We've a long way to go.

Also. What i didn't like was....why do people in Copenhagen ride such crappy looking bikes!

secman · 19-02-2019 6:46pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

Also. What i didn't like was....why do people in Copenhagen ride such crappy looking bikes!

All shapes and sizes, both bikes and riders, odd looking handlebars, long coats draping down over back wheels , civvy clothes, no helmet, no highviz, weird looking bunch, and 10kph !
Not real cyclists

Muahahaha · 19-02-2019 7:31pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

the only issue i have with the program is that those likely to benefit most from it are probably those least likely to watch it.

yeah thats a fair point, those with entranched views against cyclists are not likely to watch a program showing them a different viewpoint. Public broadcasting like this can only bring the horse to the water at the end of the day but it is better than nothing. And by doing a series of four programs instead of one at least they are covering it in depth rather than packing all issues into a rushed 30 minutes. And it provides some balance to the otherwise motor-centric type of cycling coverage we see every week so that can be no bad thing imo.

Corca Baiscinn · 19-02-2019 8:20pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah thats a fair point, those with entranched views against cyclists are not likely to watch a program showing them a different viewpoint. Public broadcasting like this can only bring the horse to the water at the end of the day but it is better than nothing. And by doing a series of four programs instead of one at least they are covering it in depth rather than packing all issues into a rushed 30 minutes. And it provides some balance to the otherwise motor-centric type of cycling coverage we see every week so that can be no bad thing imo.

Fair enough as change only comes when there are votes in it so we do need to get people on board but I hope the powers that be were or will be watching it too because providing for cycling would tick a lot of boxes for urban living. More cycling would make urban areas more attractive, relieve congestion, reduce noise and pollution, help to tackle transport emissions, be cheaper than car spaces so shouldn't Pascal and Leo be all over it!

I saw a reply to Ciaran Cannon somewhere online though when he was asked why progress was so slow and in effect he said it was because there were not enough people making their voices heard on the streets. I was reminded of that the other day when I saw a photo, in a guide book funnily enough, of one of the many cycling demonstrations in Amsterdam in the 70's.

Whenever there's discussion on a protest in this forum, some people attend, some say they'd like to but can't and others say "What do they mean having it at 5 o' clock, 1 o' clock, on a Sunday" etc?

Cycling Campaigns are trying to build on the #ibikeivote meme used in the 2 Referenda for the Local, European (and who knows GE) Elections in May so even if we can't take to the streets we could ask the candidates on our doorsteps if they're supportive of provision for cycling

Seth Brundle · 19-02-2019 9:51pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe it's something to do with the fact that to install/maintain CCTV, you need a licence - perhaps CCTV footage from a licenced system carries more credibility than a dashcam?

Are you sure that one needs a licence to install and maintain cctv?

rubadub · 19-02-2019 10:03pm

just found this

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/evidence/real_evidence.html

Information
Real evidence is material, tangible evidence such as an object, a tape recording, a computer printout or a photograph. Real evidence does not usually stand alone. The court will normally hear evidence from a witness (often an expert witness) explaining the significance or the relevance of the real evidence.

Some examples of real evidence are covered in this document.

Photographs
Since 1864, photographs have been admissible in evidence. Photographs can be introduced as evidence of what they depict. For example, in a murder trial, photographs may be introduced as evidence of the position and state that the deceased's body was in when it was found.

In order for a photograph to be admitted in evidence, it is first necessary to prove its authenticity. The photographer must prove that he or she took the photograph and the person who has processed the photograph must also give a statement that the photograph is untouched.

For a photograph to be admitted in evidence, the person who took the photograph does not need to be a professional photographer. For example, in a civil case, photographs that you have taken of damage done to your car in a road traffic accident will be admissible (as long as you are available to give evidence in court about when and how you took them).

Video recordings
Increasingly, incidents or crimes are being captured and recorded on video or CCTV (Closed Circuit Television) recorders. Such recordings are accepted by the courts in Ireland as being real evidence. Indeed, where evidence of a crime is caught on a street or shop camera, there is a duty on the Gardao seize and retain the recording for a reasonable time, even if they do not intend to use the recording as part of the prosecution case.

In order to use video/tape recordings as evidence, the prosecution must prove that the tape or video recording is authentic or genuine. The prosecution must explain how and why the recording was made and who had control of the recording afterwards.

The defence may object on these grounds and it will then be a matter for the judge to decide whether or not to allow the recording to be put to the jury.

If the Gardaecide not to use a recording (seized during the investigation) as evidence at the trial, the prosecution or Gardare under a duty to notify the defence of the existence of the recording. They are are also required to give advance notice of their intention to destroy it. The reason for this is that although the recording may not be of any use to the prosecution, the recording may assist the accused in proving that he/she was not at the scene of the crime.

While there is a duty on the Gardao collect video evidence, they do not have to go to extreme lengths to do so. For example, it would not be necessary for the Gardao collect every piece of video evidence on O’Connell Street in Dublin if there was a theft from a shop on the street.

what_traffic · 19-02-2019 11:37pm

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

I saw a reply to Ciaran Cannon somewhere online though when he was asked why progress was so slow and in effect he said it was because there were not enough people making their voices heard on the streets. I was reminded of that the other day when I saw a photo, in a guide book funnily enough, of one of the many cycling demonstrations in Amsterdam in the 70's.

Was in response to the Galway Cycling Bus.

https://twitter.com/cycle_bus/status/1097549382965252097

what_traffic · 19-02-2019 11:39pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Was in response to the Galway Cycling Bus.

https://twitter.com/cycle_bus/status/1097549382965252097

@ciarancannon

Galway could become the template for all other Irish cities in developing proper cycling infrastructure.

Galway School Cycle Bus
‏

It certainly could. All it requires is political will and ambition.

@ciarancannon

That’s a start, but it also requires massive momentum from the ground up, led by community activists who are unrelenting in their determination to make change happen. Politicians respond to pressure, always have, always will.

Cookie_Monster · 20-02-2019 1:36am

4 abreast :eek:

Idleater · 20-02-2019 8:39am

07Lapierre wrote: »

What really struck me was how Normal cycling in Copenhagen is!

If you're ever there, it's terrible as a pedestrian with all those bikes!

magicbastarder · 20-02-2019 10:39am

going a bit meta; journalism about journalism about cycling:

Now You See Me: When cyclists and motorists collide
Review: In RTÉ’s new road safety magazine show, do cyclists or motorists have to give an inch?

The laziest answer to road safety concerns is always a matter of visibility. If only every cyclist wore a luminous hi-vis vest, an array of front and back lights and, preferably, a motorised steel and glass casing with two extra wheels, then, finally, there would be peace and harmony on the roads, goes one argument, entirely from the motorist’s perspective.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/now-you-see-me-when-cyclists-and-motorists-collide-1.3799047

Chips Lovell · 20-02-2019 10:49am

Later episodes promise to follow Delaney, always an amiable presence, as he mounts the experience of two-wheeled transport in the city. It can be hairy, as we see in ample evidence of flung-open car doors, lane-cutting van swerves, and lycra-swaddled macho racers.

No, no, please don't. We've had more than enough of these "let's put someone who doesn't cycle on a bike to see what it's really like cycling in Dublin" pieces.

It's like putting a first-time driver in a car and saying that's what it's like driving in Dublin. You're stressed out to f**k, you're sweating bullets, and you think the entire journey is a series of hazards to be avoided.

But I guess filming an ordinary cyclist commuting isn't going to make for good TV.

Journalism and cycling

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