Help..Don't let the grass grow under my feet!

The Wild Goose · 18-01-2018 4:48pm #1

Hi,

Firstly, just like to explain that I'm a total newbie... new to Boards, new to rural living, and most certainly new to smallholding. So here goes...

I moved into a cottage towards the end of last Summer on a little over an acre of land.
My slightly insane idea is to hopefully turn it into a sort of permaculture/ self-sufficiency/ forest garden/ traditional crop hybrid, with some chickens and bees...

My problem is this:
a) The acre at the moment is under grass.
b) As I haven't taught the dogs how to use a spade yet, there's only one of me to work the land.
c) Although I've read up on the subject, it's all theory at present.

I was thinking about the possibility of:
Getting the acre or so ploughed and harrowed, then sowing the entire field with white clover?
The thought process behind this is that the clover would basically keep the grass at bay, allowing me the time to plant trees, bushes and ground cover and install pathways etc. at a more realistic pace without having to keep looking over my shoulder all the time at the grass shooting up, and also the fact that it's a 'green manure' which can be dug in as progress is made.
I should add that I 'borrowed' some ponies from a neighbour to get the waist-high grass down to a manageable level (it's now about ankle height) but they had to be removed before the grass got down to ground level.

I've read books on self-sufficiency, forest gardens and permaculture, but none of them tell me how to begin, ie, get the land to the point where it's ready to start all of these things.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, advice or counselling therapy would be appreciated.
Thanks

19-01-2018 12:53am

Hmmm interim manure crop seems like a big beginning step and not without similar difficulty as you already have and could introduce weeds your not ready for

Two main options
Livestock... either goats or pigs
OR irregular mowing by small tractor... leave grass grow a bit long

The Wild Goose · 19-01-2018 9:40am

Thanks for your reply..
The idea of using goats and/or pigs has merit...goats as grass cutters and pigs as ploughs for example, and I like the idea in principle. But wow! they both bring a lot more to the table logistics wise.
They'd both need secure and movable fencing, goats especially, who are notorious escape artists.
They'd both need movable shelters and water.
They'd need to be registered with the department of agriculture.

It might be too much of a steep learning curve for me, who's only at the toe-dipping stage right now.
I'll have to look into it a bit more (there are foxes in the area for example, would young goats/pigs be a tasty target?)

On the other hand the 'small tractor' scenario doesn't appeal... I don't have access to a tractor, and it just seems like too much time, effort and money would need to be invested to achieve something I would hope nature could give me a hand with?
As I say, I've a bit of thinking to do...
Thanks for the suggestions and I'll keep you posted

Genghis Cant · 19-01-2018 11:10am

Maybe continue with the ponies to control vegetation but confine them to say 3/4s of the area while you work on a more manageable section at your own pace. Over time reduce the ponies area until finally you have the whole area under some sort of control.
I faced a similar situation here with a paddock at the house of 3/4s of an acre. I could graze it with cattle but instead got geese ( I know there's a bit of work with securing them etc!) to clip the grass. They're grass eating machines :-)

The Wild Goose · 19-01-2018 1:14pm

Thanks for your reply.
You may be right, I may have to go back to the ponies, or some variation of that.

I probably should have pointed out at the beginning that I'm hoping to go vegetarian too. So I intend keeping the livestock element to a minimum. I hope to keep chickens for eggs and bees for honey, but not animals to eat or send away for slaughter. I understand most homesteaders keep animals for meat and I've no problem with that, it's just not for me.
So that would tend to exclude keeping pigs for example, or geese?
Also, I'd like to keep the fencing side of things to a minimum if possible. I know I'll need secure fencing if I'm to keep chickens, especially with foxes in the area, but that's only one group over a relatively small area.

Ideally I'd like to find a plant based method for keeping the grass under control, hence the clover option for ground cover.
From what I've read, an established forest garden or permaculture set-up does appear to do this with the heavy ground cover seeming to stifle grass growth, but unfortunately it takes time getting to that stage.

Hmm....tricky!

Colonel Claptrap · 19-01-2018 1:21pm

Fascinating project. I've followed this thread.

Unfortunately I've no advice to offer, but would love to hear updates along the way.

Best of luck with it.

The Wild Goose · 19-01-2018 2:22pm

Hi,
Thanks I appreciate that.

I should just mention in case it's suggested that the local advice I got was the nuclear option... blitz the whole lot with chemicals and start afresh.
Needless to say that I would be totally opposed to that option...like saying if I kill a few people I can then become a pacifist!!
Doing nothing and allowing the field revert back to being a wild meadow would be preferable.

Nekarsulm · 19-01-2018 3:45pm

If there is a decent depth of soil, would you consider getting perhaps a plot 60 feet by 100 rotavated and drilled with spuds?
Obviously you'd have to wait till ground dries up, but you'd be half way to self sufficient.

Ask around if there is a vintage tractor club, see is some of them would plough and rotavate it for you, and open and close the drills.

You WILL have to spray them against blight though, but you could use bluestone instead of the proprietory chemicals.

PS, personally I wouldn't be going all Bob Flowerdew on it with heritage breeds of spud. Roosters and Kerrs Pinks are hard to beat for eating.

(Unless you're English, then I suppose you'd plant spuds that turn out so soapy you could shave with them

.

)

gozunda · 22-01-2018 1:18am

The Wild Goose wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.
You may be right, I may have to go back to the ponies, or some variation of that.

I probably should have pointed out at the beginning that I'm hoping to go vegetarian too. So I intend keeping the livestock element to a minimum. I hope to keep chickens for eggs and bees for honey, but not animals to eat or send away for slaughter. I understand most homesteaders keep animals for meat and I've no problem with that, it's just not for me.
So that would tend to exclude keeping pigs for example, or geese?
Also, I'd like to keep the fencing side of things to a minimum if possible. I know I'll need secure fencing if I'm to keep chickens, especially with foxes in the area, but that's only one group over a relatively small area.

Ideally I'd like to find a plant based method for keeping the grass under control, hence the clover option for ground cover.
From what I've read, an established forest garden or permaculture set-up does appear to do this with the heavy ground cover seeming to stifle grass growth, but unfortunately it takes time getting to that stage.

Hmm....tricky!

With your setup I woud suggest lookin into some principles of permaculture for certain.

I appreciate what you are saying about being vegetarian however animals should be an important part of any small holding in such a set up.

Whatever you are planning on growing - you will need to return both humus and nutrients back to the soil. This can be done with green manures etc but it is better in my experience to source this from livestock such as your ponies and ducks/ chickens. The pony will eat grass etc and return manure as the best contribution to soil fertility. Ducks / chickens will provide you with eggs and also valuable source of soil and crop nutrients. Ducks are also excellent slug and bug controllers in any small holding.

You can reduce the area of grass by planting quick growing trees such as willow - which would provide you with short rotation firewood.

Other woodland incorporating nuts such as hazelnuts and fruit like raspberries will provide you with useful crops.

In the short term the grass and weeds are going to grow - don't fight it - incorporate this growth into grazing for a pony / donkey or geese which are fantastic grazers but will only lay eggs over one short period in the year but they also make great guard dogs (many people are very afraid of them - I personally like them)

Start small - buy some good tools. Lay down light excluding permable weed block fabric or old wool capets now over a small area. Once the soil is workable in April or May start digging a small area and buy some young seedling plants to begin. If you have never planted seeds outdoor in field conditions you may have a steep learning curve - do some classes and if possible invest in a small polytunnel to aid early germination for later transplanting of crops outside. Growing outdoor crops in Ireland is not for the faint hearted ...

Chisler2 · 23-01-2018 11:04am

The Wild Goose wrote: »

Hi,

Firstly, just like to explain that I'm a total newbie... new to Boards, new to rural living, and most certainly new to smallholding. So here goes...

I moved into a cottage towards the end of last Summer on a little over an acre of land.
My slightly insane idea is to hopefully turn it into a sort of permaculture/ self-sufficiency/ forest garden/ traditional crop hybrid, with some chickens and bees...

My problem is this:
a) The acre at the moment is under grass.
b) As I haven't taught the dogs how to use a spade yet, there's only one of me to work the land.
c) Although I've read up on the subject, it's all theory at present.

I was thinking about the possibility of:
Getting the acre or so ploughed and harrowed, then sowing the entire field with white clover?
The thought process behind this is that the clover would basically keep the grass at bay, allowing me the time to plant trees, bushes and ground cover and install pathways etc. at a more realistic pace without having to keep looking over my shoulder all the time at the grass shooting up, and also the fact that it's a 'green manure' which can be dug in as progress is made.
I should add that I 'borrowed' some ponies from a neighbour to get the waist-high grass down to a manageable level (it's now about ankle height) but they had to be removed before the grass got down to ground level.

I've read books on self-sufficiency, forest gardens and permaculture, but none of them tell me how to begin, ie, get the land to the point where it's ready to start all of these things.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, advice or counselling therapy would be appreciated.
Thanks

It sounds as if you have lots of great ideas but as you say "don't know how to get started". Scatter-gun responses on Boards - whilst always inspiring! - will not help you get started.

First you really need to assess the quality and location of the piece of land (south-facing, wet or dry, pH (generally) of the soil, etc). It sounds as if it is very fertile? That's your starting-point so eliminates crops which thrive on poorer soils. Starting off by rotovating the whole kaboodle for a "clean slate" is an attractive idea but unfortunately simply prepares a nice new home for every weed and thug-invasive to move in (I've done that!)

Do you own the property? What kind of agri-culture surrounds your patch? Both these things are important.

As some previous posters suggest, START SMALL! Getting small-scale land-management is surprisingly time- and energy-consuming to do properly. Once established things change and it simply requires maintenance.

As you are "a complete newbie" go to school! There are some high-quality workshops and courses available and this is the time of year when organisations like Irish Seed Savers offer great workshops in Scariff County Clare...........and have heritage products for sale. Take out membership. They need support. I recommend Harmony Farm for courses on the livestock aspect of ethical smallholding.

I am interested to hear how your project evolves.

The Wild Goose · 23-01-2018 11:10am

Hi, and thanks for your suggestions.

Nekarsulm:
I'm afraid that I'm not a big fan of spuds, I eat them but only occasionally, so I have no idea what I'd do with 6000 sq ft of 'em!
(and I wouldn't be interested in trying to sell them either, what with marketing, transporting, bagging etc.).

gozunda:
I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that livestock in some form is the only real solution. It's still January, and the grass is already starting to grow again.
I'm strongly looking into the possibility of:
Two goats (rescue preferably, does hopefully)
Half a dozen rescue hens
A movable hen house and goat shelter
electric fencing

The idea would be to fence in an area 20mt x 20mt (400 mt sq) at a time, moving them on when the area is cleared.
From what I've read goats and chickens can co-exist in the same foraging area.
The goats and electric fencing (plus my two German shepherds and me in the vicinity ) would deter foxes during daylight hours, while the hens would be securely locked away at night.

The advantages would be:
The hens would supply eggs, manure and insect control
The goats would supply manure and grass cutting.
Keeping both, combined with some blanket mulching would give me the ability to work on small areas without worrying about the grass taking over.

The disadvantages would be :
Feeding, possible health issues, setting up costs
No end product (like eggs!) from the goats....maybe eventually there could be (hence the preference for does, and maybe get into goats milk at some stage but that's a whole different ball game and I've enough to deal with already).

Anyway, time is ticking by and something needs to be done soon...
So if there are no major disadvantages I've missed out on to the plan above I think that might be the way I'll go.

Any comments anyone?

Chisler2 · 23-01-2018 11:15am

After I'd hit the "send" button I checked my information on Harmony Farm. I was shocked to discover that unfortunately due to the death of a family member their circumstances are changed and they no longer offer courses in smallholding.

It sounds as if you have worked out a solution for your individual situation. Wish you every success with it.

The Wild Goose · 23-01-2018 11:57am

Hi Chisler2,
We were on 'crossed lines' there, both uploading at the same time.
Just to cover a little of your post...
The land is south facing? (ie it's a rectangle at the rear of my house which is south facing, but slightly undulating, with a gentle slope from east to west).
It's relatively dry (slightly squishy underfoot in parts atm, but considering the rainfall we've had lately probably not too surprising).
Much to my shame I haven't checked the pH yet, but it does seem to be very fertile coil.
I sort of got the impression from a local that the 'clean slate' approach would be a great opportunity for weed growing too, so I think that idea will have to be consigned to the bin.

Yes I own the property, so looking long term.
The surrounding area is nearly all grazing land for cattle, sheep and horses.

Sorry, but the whole 'going to school' thing doesn't appeal. I know it suits most people, but I've never adopted that approach.
I've achieved most things I set out to do in life by reading up, investigating, then jumping in at the deep end, and learning from any mistakes along the way. It's just the way I am, and I'm too old a dog now to learn new tricks.
In saying that I do embrace technology...forums and youtube are great sources of information.

Well if anyone else has any other suggestions I'd love to hear them. In the meantime I'll be investigating the whole goats/chickens scenario a bit more before hopefully taking the plunge.
Thanks for your feedback.

White Clover · 23-01-2018 12:40pm

Just on the fencing for goats etc. If it's good enough to keep in your dogs it will keep in goats too.

Rows Grower · 31-01-2018 1:42pm

Hi Wild Goose, I was in a similar situation to yourself a good few years ago except I'm a committed carnivore. I lived and learned along the way and am still learning all the time. First off, don't look at the grass you have as a problem, it is a huge plus. It is free food for nearly all types of poultry and lots of animals.
Chickens are a doddle to keep, get one of the hundreds of books available or read up online. The most important things to remember are make sure they are locked in safe every night and you don't leave excess feed lying around as this will attract vermin. Make sure you get a cockerel too, (you should be able to pick one up for around a fiver at any fair or country market) they do a great job protecting their harem and helping them remain calm and happy. You can throw your ashes from your stove or fire into one corner of the run for your chickens to have a dust bath. With all the grazing and scratching chickens do there will be no grass left in their confined area in a short time.
If you are going to get a goat be aware that they are the greatest escape artists that the good Lord ever created. An electric fence will be about as effective as a stop sign if the goat is not happy where you placed it. And when the goat does decide to wander around for a munch it will without doubt head for your most precious favourite plants first.
I know it is very noble and heartwarming to get rescue animals but if I was you I'd buy healthy point of lay chickens which will be around the tenner mark each and a healthy youngish pregnant Saanen goat. The goat will keep producing milk long after the kid has been weaned off as long as you milk her every day. Raw goats milk is the healthiest milk you can drink and is especially good for anyone with unhealthy skin.
Beekeeping is fascinating once you get started, you can read all you want about it but it is one area that I would highly recommend getting some sort of education in as well. Join the nearest beekeeping club and the national association which they will be affiliated to and sign up for any/every course going. From my own experience it is not a cheap hobby to get started in, but if you want to produce honey starting off right is the main thing. Once you get started and producing there should be only minimal overheads afterwards as you will be able to make your own hives and split swarms / attract swarms etc.
Geese as already mentioned are great at keeping the grass down (really great!) and great for security around the place, try and get an unrelated goose and a gander. The same with any other animal they like their own for company. If you don't fancy eating the eggs which are huge, you can let the female sit on them and rear young goslings to sell. As with ducks there should always be somewhere where they can have a good wash and a swim when they want.
Pigs are hard work even if you intend to eat them, you will need a herd number which is fairly easy to get but keeping even two or three of them fed and watered is like a part time job in itself. When they see you feeding other animals they get jealous and start making loud noises that will make your neighbours wonder are you torturing them. They eat like every meal is their last for the next month, then if it gets too sunny they get sunburn so you have to put sun cream on them. Slowly but surely as the time for slaughter draws near their personalities come on in leaps and bounds and the trip to the abattoir will leave you needing therapy. They take up a fair bit of time, they cost money to buy, money to keep and money to kill. Then you have a mountain of pork bacon and sausages to store. Stay away from pigs.
If you are growing your own veg, as suggested set up a tunnel to get them started and then grow them in raised beds for an easier life.
Buy a proper compost bin or two in one of the hardware shops for about 30 - 40 euro and save a load of messing around.
Set up a rainwater harvest system, have an emergency kit ready for power cuts, invest in motion detecting solar lights outside, always have plenty alcohol in the house.
You'll be grand.

The Wild Goose · 31-01-2018 5:09pm

Hi Rows Grower, and thanks for your comments. Wow there's a lot to digest there...
I do have a few chicken books which I've read (well erm...maybe 'looked over' might be a better term).
But I will swot up more nearer the time. I don't want to go too deep into any aspect until I have a firm idea in my head as to what exactly I plan to keep. The problem with the internet is that there are a lot of conflicting ideas out there...
Some say chickens and geese are ok together, and some say "my geese killed/maimed/hassled/drowned" the chickens.
Goats and chickens seem to work well by most accounts.
Ashes as a dust bath is a good suggestion... it'd want to be under cover I'd imagine otherwise in our climate it would soon turn into a muck/mush bath?
I know goats have a reputation for escapism but surely an electric fence would do the job, no?
The goats milk could be a possibility further down the line but at present I think I'd leave that part out. I think I might be biting off a bit more than I can cope with if it includes milking goats twice a day on top of everything else.
(does goats milk require pasteurising btw?)
I get what you're saying about buying in healthy hens but...I'd prefer to get in rescue hens if possible. Tbh it's not important if some don't in fact lay or some don't even 'make it' past the first few days...I can always add to the flock if the rescue ones don't work out.
Would a cockerel not add to the mix in the same way as the goat milking thing? ie: little chicks which require a whole new area of maintenance?
I agree regarding the pigs. If you take out the bacon aspect (which I would if going down the vegetarian route) they'd be too much maintenance for too little output...especially if I have to run out with the factor 50 every time the sun shines.

With regard to the bees...yes you're correct that would be one area where I'd be looking to gain actual hands-on experience before jumping in.
However I think the bees might have to take a back seat for a bit as there are more important things to deal with first.
I might have to wait till next summer before that's a go-er.
My only concern regarding the bee keeping fraternity is that as with everything else I tend to lean towards the unconventional side of things, so the bee keeping I'd be most interested in is the more natural top-bar hive system?
I could be wrong but this may not go down too well with conventional bee keepers.. but we shall see.

The rainwater harvesting is something more urgent. The whole drainage system/rainwater/guttering area is in dire need of sorting and something I'll have to address pretty sharpish. Hiring a mini digger looks like being a priority.
I've built a couple of raised beds, was checking out 'hugelkultur', and was only last night looking at how to "build a polytunnel for under $150"...so there's always something in the 'to do' jar.

'Plenty of alcohol'
That's something that's been on my mind actually. I'm intending to plant a selection (15-20) fruit trees in the next week or so.
I know it will take a few years for them to fruit, but I was thinking when (if?) they do...what would I do with tons (well lots) of apples?
Then I thought 'cider?'
So I've been checking what mix of apple varieties would make decent cider when the time comes, which might cover that side of things.
There's lots of elderberry bushes bordering the field too, so elderberry wine will hopefully be on the menu.

I appreciate you taking the time to post your comments Rows Grower with some interesting and informative points from someone who's 'been there'. I hope you don't think I was dismissing some them out of hand as they're all good suggestions. It's just me trying to find the best fit for me right now.

So, for anyone reading out there:

1. Is planting apple trees with the intention of using a portion of the harvest for producing cider a good idea?

2. Has anyone any suggestions or links for the construction of a cheap and cheerful portable goat housing (2 goats) which doesn't require six burly men and a tractor to move 20 metres?

Any advice/suggestions appreciated.

Genghis Cant · 31-01-2018 7:23pm

Re. Goat housing. Perhaps this might be an option?
https://youtu.be/ra1-Hiqd9vA

The ibc containers can be easily got usually around €40 each.

I think the the big issue with turning apples into jungle juice :-) is the need for a press of some description to harvest the juice. I think they're an expensive bit of gear. But I could be wrong!

Don't believe what you read about geese, hens turkeys etc not cohabiting well. They're all here free ranging happily. I think most issues are as result of stocking density. When there's plenty of room everyone's happy!
We've bees here too. Sometimes you'd love to be looking at them.... Other times they're a pain, insofar as you're somewhat tied to handling them at least every fortnight in season. All things being equal there's a bit of work with them but it's enjoyable when things are going well.

The Wild Goose · 31-01-2018 8:39pm

Hi,
Had to look up what an ibc container was...I'm guessing as a cheap & cheerful easily movable goat housing?
On first glance looks a bit cold and unwelcoming, but on thinking about it I suppose if fitted with straw etc.. and it would certainly give shelter from the wind and rain...and be movable.

Yes just checked, a decent apple press seems to run around the €250 mark.
But still...at €5 a pint?? ...after 50 pints I'd be winning

At that price point they seem to be built to last too, cast iron etc.
I'd better start saving for the first harvest

Maybe you're right about the cohabitating. The plan would be chickens/goats or chickens/geese enclosed in a 30m x 20m fenced in area, each with their own housing. Then when that area is worked over, rotate both to the next 20 x 30 section etc.

As I said, because of the steep learning curve I think the bees will have to wait in line for a bit, but will definitely be in my longer term plans.
I'll check a bit more on the ibc thingys, and thanks for the input.

Base price · 01-02-2018 3:44pm

Here is a link to the Dept website for registering your premises which is a requirement in order to keep livestock - hens/geese (any poultry), pigs or goats etc.
The forms can be printed off, filled up and posted to your local DVO (District Veterinary Office).
Best of luck with your venture.
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/animalwelfare/registrationofpremisesanimals/

tabby aspreme · 01-02-2018 4:01pm

I think you can hire time on an apple press with seed savers to press your own apples.

Nekarsulm · 01-02-2018 5:39pm

Electric netting would be handiest for keeping poultry in (helps keep foxes etc out also) and easily moved.

https://www.donedeal.ie/poultry-for-sale/electric-poultry-fencing-poultry-net/5711589

baaba maal · 01-02-2018 8:46pm

I would suggest getting the poly up and running for the spring- it means you won't miss out on this yar while planning all the other projects.

Capercaillie · 06-02-2018 1:28pm

If you want to increase biodiversity for meadow you should sow some yellow rattle. You just need to rake ground and broadcast. It parasitizes vigorous grass species so lets more slowing growing species survive.

sabrewolfe · 06-02-2018 1:44pm

Hi wild Goose,
I've done a few little similar bits. When I moved down to the South East five years ago I dived into keeping poultry without much initial thought and have found them to be very beneficial to the old homestead. I planted quite a few apple trees (including a few cider varieties

), pear trees, cherries, walnut, pear and hazelnut trees. The chickens hugely benefit the fruit trees and are great for providing manure for vegetable crops and when let out on patrol demolish insects around veg beds.

The best advice I can give you is regarding poultry.

If your just after eggs a commercial breed like the hy line brown are egg laying machines but... they tend to keel over after a few years and they point blank refuse to go broody.

I moved over to marans and light sussex after the last of the hy lines expired. If you only have two or three hens your looking at getting an egg every day from each hen during the summer.

If you decide to keep a cockerel the marans are great for going broody and sitting on eggs. Cockrel's are good for chasing off cats and generally keeping an eye on their ladies. If your good about letting them out later in the day (think automatic door) they tend not to annoy the neighbours, alternatively you can put a small velcro band around their neck as a crow collar, this stops them from crowing at high decibels but doesn't interfere with their ability to eat and generally strut around like a king.

Depending on the size of the flock you are thinking about you can either setup a permanent run or you can just make a portable chicken tractor that will happily house the chickens and can be moved around easily enough.

The Wild Goose · 06-02-2018 4:12pm

Hi, and thanks for all the input...
Came in from the field where I've been attempting to put up electric chicken netting without ending up like an illegal salmon

, to discover some new posts..
Ok so, this is where I am at present:
As I say, the netting arrived this morning, and that's a work in progress.
Also got two 4' bales of straw delivered, for mulching, bedding etc.
Tomorrow the chicken coop arrives to be assembled...I'm wondering if I can attach some sort of skis to the underside so it can be pulled onto other areas of the field when the time comes? Hmm...
Anyway, I'm expecting some new arrivals at the weekend (eight rescue hens) hopefully to supply some fresh eggs eventually, but if they don't provide it's not the end of the world.

I've got a variety of apple trees (14), pear (2) and plum (1) on order....I've just to hit that 'buy' button, but holding off till the chicken situation is sorted first, and besides, I've seventeen 2 x 1 foot holes to dig in preparation for those same trees

Then I've to source an ibc tank, get a pair of goats, build a polytunnel, drag a 12' raised bed 50yds (because I built it in the wrong location!), plant 17 fruit trees, and, and...
The old saying "sure if it was easy everyone would be doing it" springs to mind

Anyway, enough of the idle chitter chatter...back to work...sigh!

CelticRambler · 06-02-2018 6:27pm

More power to your elbows, knees and toes, OP!

I have about an acre-and-a-half (in metric hectares, though

) and work away from home a lot, so know what you're up against with the "blink and you miss it" grass growth.

Some observations and comments on the points raised above, in no particular order:
(1) Fruit trees - don't forget to protect them against bark-nibblers of all kinds, especially the goats (if you get them)!

(1b) Soft fruits - you haven't mentioned them, but don't forget to make space -and time - for strawberries, raspberries, blackcurrants, gooseberries, etc, etc.

(2) Harvest quantities - other than knowing what to do with seven tons of apples a year :rolleyes: don't forget that you'll need to allow time for the actual harvest and preparation. As a newbie, this is likely to be a lot more than you think. I've got only eight apple trees, now 8-14 years old, and even as relatively young producers, picking and processing the crop can take the best part of a week's spare time. To speed things up, I have one of these:

Best 15€ I ever spent! :cool:

(3) More quantities - eggs. With four hens and four children, I was still trying to give away eggs for six months of the year! There's nothing like finding a nest of two dozen eggs after a long weekend away to emphasise just how many eggs a few hens can produce.

(4) Potatoes - get to like them! They're a great way to help condition the soil after you've cleared it of top-growth. I plant about 100m² every year, sometimes on part of my existing vegetable patch that needs a good digging over, sometimes on newly cleared ground. In both cases, I use a rotavator on the area at least twice before planting, and again immediately after harvest. Planting the area the following spring with other veg, I really notice the difference, compared to areas that have just been cleared and dug.

(5) Forgettable zones! Early on, even with the availability of slave labour, I realised there was just too much grass to manage without mechanical or animal assistance, so I limited my maintenance to designated areas - veg patch, orchard, play area ("lawn"

) and access routes; all the rest, I handed back to Mother Nature, until such time as I had a better idea of how I wanted to use it. Yes, you'll get brambles and nettles and thistles and all kinds of weirdness, but it doesn't matter - it makes it much easier to concentrate on keeping the productive areas tidy.

(6) Trees and Time. One of my regrets is that I didn't plant a load of Christmas trees on one of the forgettable zones. If I'd done that 10 or 15 years ago, I wouldn't have to be buying them now! :eek: More to the point, once they get going, trees can help control your grass growth. Three of my "forgettable zones" have become a new oak woodland (self-seeded), and between their own demand for water and a twice-yearly walk-around with a strimmer, that whole area looks great and gives my visitors somewhere shady to sit in the summer. There are about 150 good-sized trees there now, destined for the fire in another 20-50 years.

That'll do for now!

uck51js9zml2yt · 26-08-2018 1:02am

A great read...any update 7 months on??

lanod2407 · 29-12-2018 12:32am

Really good read ......... and any updates almost 12 months on???

The Wild Goose · 29-12-2018 1:10pm

Hi,

I've had a couple of requests for updates recently, so thought I'd just fill in the gaps a little.
Contrary to what some may have imagined I didn't return to the big city to take up a life of trading on the stock market, and I didn't fall down a rabbit hole either like Alice. The reality is much more mundane I'm afraid.
So where am I at now?
Well, not too far from where I was this time last year if the truth be told, but there were mitigating circumstances...

The cottage was in a pretty bad shape overall, and seeing as how I can't be doing two things at the same time I decided to prioritise the house rather than the surroundings.
Money was tight which necessitated me doing most of the work myself, including (though not limited to) electrical, plumbing, heating, insulating, carpentry etc. etc.
Then in April I came into some funds I had been waiting on and decided to get a small extension to one of the bedrooms, which were all too small to take little more than a bed.

Unfortunately I contracted the builder from hell to do the work, and a six week job turned into a three month nightmare, requiring among other things me having to get a structural engineer in to point out his failings before the house fell down!
These three months were essentially wasted through disruption, necessitating moving living areas multiple times, moving furniture, making sure the dogs didn't escape (or bite the builders for their incompetence) and so on.
After they departed I spent a good deal of time clearing up after them, repairing their mistakes, and redecorating.

However I realise this is a smallholding forum rather than a builders one, so just to give an update on the outdoor area...

I did get the rescue hens (eight to be precise).
I've had a lot of issues with bullying though (not with me, with each other!) and had to segregate them creating a passive three and an aggressive five in separate areas.
Then, just the other morning one of the five was lying on the ground immobile.
I brought her into the house overnight and made a nest of bedding with some food and water, but next morning she was dead?
Consequently I've gone from the hateful eight to the magnificent seven.

So what killed her?
I don't know to be honest. The electric fencing seems to be working well and I've had no other issues, apart from the bullying kind.
I went onto a hen forum a while ago regarding the bullying and was basically told that ex-battery hens tend to have psychological issues that can't be eradicated.
They have loads of room to roam around so there's no reason for their aggressive behaviour apart from the fact that they must be a bit unhinged!
On the plus side I've had plenty of eggs since I've got them last March, so I can't complain on that score.

I did plant some fruit trees, nine apple, two pear and one plum.
(I re-read my previous posts before writing. I don't know why I said I'd dug seventeen holes? Maybe I'd dug twelve and intended digging another five but got waylaid on something else?)
All the trees flowered this summer and seem to be doing well and I'm hoping to have some fruit in Autumn of 2020, but we shall see.

I did buy myself a mini tractor too.
It's an old (1988 I think?) Mitsubishi 37hp with a front loader and a flail mower on the rear. It also came with a tiller and a set of pallet forks.
I have to learn how to change over the attachments on the three point linkage, and I foolishly let it run out of diesel so it'll have to be bled, but it seems to be working well otherwise.

Apart from the above, I just let everything run it's course.
I did do a few other things, like topping all the thistles in the field as they flowered so that next years crop may not be as prolific, but that's more or less it.

My plans for 2019...

While I was working on the house interior I promised myself that once Christmas has passed that 2019 was going to be about working outside.
My plans include at least some of the following, but are fluid and subject to change.

Plant another twenty or so trees, some fruit and nut probably but mainly willow for future coppicing.

Plant some fruit bushes along the south facing walls.

Move the hens to another location. The area they've been on this last nine months should be well fertilised by now and I hope to turn this into a vegetable garden.

Make a patio area bordered by raised beds.

Get the small polytunnel I purchased last year out of the box and up and running.

Construct a winding pathway around the perimeter of the field so I can compartmentalise the different areas

Well, that's January sorted. What I'll do for the rest of the year is anyone's guess...

Hope everyone has a great 2019, and here's to a bumper harvest next Autumn....

lanod2407 · 01-01-2019 1:09pm

Thanks for the update Wild goose. Really great to hear how much work you've gotten through.
The life of a smallholder can be one of small wins.
Getting a tractor is a great move.

arctictree · 07-01-2019 4:18pm

Thanks for the update! Regarding the hens, when I first bought our cottage I was mad into poultry and spent ages googling every minor thing! Now we just have 2 hens, every now and then one dies and I just get a replacement. Have one or 2 eggs a day and that's enough for us. They just really do their own thing and have the best freedom in the world!

Nekarsulm · 07-01-2019 4:51pm

The "Triggers Broom " of the poultry world!

recedite · 15-02-2019 6:46pm

The Wild Goose wrote: »

I did get the rescue hens (eight to be precise).
I've had a lot of issues with bullying though (not with me, with each other!) and had to segregate them creating a passive three and an aggressive five in separate areas.
Then, just the other morning one of the five was lying on the ground immobile.
I brought her into the house overnight and made a nest of bedding with some food and water, but next morning she was dead?
Consequently I've gone from the hateful eight to the magnificent seven.

So what killed her?
I don't know to be honest. ...

If you had taken the advice to include a cock in your flock, you could have avoided all that grief with the bullying.
Don't worry about the odd one dying, its natural. Hens are rarely sick except maybe for only a few hours. Normally they are either alive and well, or else dead.
Don't take in poultry in dribs and drabs from other people though, or you'll introduce diseases. Its best to get a few hatching eggs when one of your hens is broody, then rear your own replacements.

Well done on getting the trees in.
I'll only add one more thing - blackcurrants. Low maintenance, good reliable crop, and freeze well. There's nothing like a blackcurrant milk shake or a smoothy in the depths of winter for boosting your vitamin levels.
BTW anyone who has blackcurrants should get one of these, https://www.ebay.ie/itm/200600995957 They are well worth the money.

gozunda · 15-02-2019 7:55pm

recedite wrote: »

...

Well done on getting the trees in.
I'll only add one more thing - blackcurrants. Low maintenance, good reliable crop, and freeze well. There's nothing like a blackcurrant milk shake or a smoothy in the depths of winter for boosting your vitamin levels.
BTW anyone who has blackcurrants should get one of these, https://www.ebay.ie/itm/200600995957 They are well worth the money.

Good advice there. With blackcurrant- try a few varieties to see which does best in your soil / local conditions. I had a few years of trial and error until you find a variety which gives a good crop nearly every year.

Freeze the berries and then you will have the option to make blackcurrant jam or smoothies or whatever. Keep some over until just before the next crop and you'll keep yourself supplied year round

Stationmaster · 27-06-2019 3:30pm

Only noticed this thread now - some good advice on it.

We've recently moved onto 13 acres - 3 of it planted. We've 3 ponies, a few goats and 5 hens at the moment and are hoping to get a few pigs next month.

I'd like to get a few duck and geese too - anyone got any tips for these?

We've our goats tethered separately near to the ditches and they're happy out with their mixture of grass and brambles - they do a great job of eating the briars.

Hoping to get a small tunnel shortly as well once we've the bales made in a week or two.

Water John · 27-06-2019 3:48pm

Ducks are a bit dirty, will eat anything incl mice, but they lay well if you want to sell their eggs.
The only reason to have geese is to raise them for the Christmas market.

Base price · 27-06-2019 7:37pm

Water John wrote: »

Ducks are a bit dirty, will eat anything incl mice, but they lay well if you want to sell their eggs.
The only reason to have geese is to raise them for the Christmas market.

A gander can be as good as a dog at guarding. I used to have 3 geese and they ran free range with a gander and if a strange car drove in he would run and stand hissing at the car

Water John · 27-06-2019 8:05pm

If one attacked you, they'd leave you black and blue. Beat you with their wings.

Hillybilly4 · 28-06-2019 9:06am

Stationmaster wrote: »

We've our goats tethered separately near to the ditches and they're happy out with their mixture of grass and brambles - they do a great job of eating the briars.

Hoping to get a small tunnel shortly as well once we've the bales made in a week or two.

Interested to hear that you keep your goats tethered. We are considering getting a couple but the idea of all the goat proof fencing is daunting. Tethering obviously works OK for you? Collars, chains and hefty wind-in stakes or...? Do they not get tangled (with each other)? Do they have a field shelter they can access while tethered? I'm guessing you move them regularly and also bring them in at night? I'd be very interested if you could tell me more please because I think tethering would work better for us.

28-06-2019 9:49pm

Hillybilly4 wrote: »

Interested to hear that you keep your goats tethered. We are considering getting a couple but the idea of all the goat proof fencing is daunting. Tethering obviously works OK for you? Collars, chains and hefty wind-in stakes or...? Do they not get tangled (with each other)? Do they have a field shelter they can access while tethered? I'm guessing you move them regularly and also bring them in at night? I'd be very interested if you could tell me more please because I think tethering would work better for us.

Father had a goat long time ago on a tether. Used to drive a metal bar and had chain on it. Down side was had to frequently unwind the chain from the bar as goat kept going same direction and wound itself up.

Heavy Tyre be good. Too heavy for them to shift but not to bad to move yourself

Other thing I’ve oten thought would be worth trying is driving stakes like you say and tying chain between them to actually tie a tether to... that way could tether along a ditch/fence so they can tame the fence a bit

Stationmaster · 01-07-2019 10:55am

We have two tethered separately. Only have them about 2 months so they're out all the time.
At the moment they are each tethered to 3 concrete blocks - I originally had them only tethered to one each but they were able to move that easily enough!

I have them close to each other but not close enough for them to touch so they can't get tangled up. They're on a rope about 7/8 yards long running by the ditch so that they have grass and briars - they're doing a great job so far. Move them about every 3/4 weeks. No need for shelter for them so far anyway and they surprisingly drink feck all water.

Rows Grower · 06-07-2019 8:29pm

Stationmaster wrote: »

We have two tethered separately. Only have them about 2 months so they're out all the time.
At the moment they are each tethered to 3 concrete blocks - I originally had them only tethered to one each but they were able to move that easily enough!

I have them close to each other but not close enough for them to touch so they can't get tangled up. They're on a rope about 7/8 yards long running by the ditch so that they have grass and briars - they're doing a great job so far. Move them about every 3/4 weeks. No need for shelter for them so far anyway and they surprisingly drink feck all water.

They're only sussing out your favorite plants and biding their time while planning an escape, be vigilant.

Help..Don't let the grass grow under my feet!

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