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Why be good?

2»

Comments

  • #52
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,940 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    There you go again. People of "faith".

    It's a con.

    Why do you demand respect for people who are gullible?

    Option 5: Not everyone is good.


  • #53
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,940 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I picked option 4 which I feel is the case partly because Options 1 and 2 are also true.

    It can make such a difference when someone does something to pick you up, make you feel better, help you out etc so why not do that when you can for others.
    And also, because I believe herd mentality is a thing and that people will behave and react in a similar way to how they perceive others behaving so it is better to set a good example.

    (In terms of Option 3, I am an engineer and my logical mind suggests that a deity watching over everything is unlikely, but, I also recognize that the absence of proof is not proof of absence and I do believe that the core tenets of most religions are to be good to each other and that most of the practitioners of each religion do adhere to this belief. The issues occur when some corrupt the simple belief of religion for their own personal goals. I wouldn't knock anyone for being religious because I see the support and sense of community that many do get from having their beliefs.)


  • #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I find it really weird and quite disturbing that some people need to imagine there's a god looking over their shoulder in order to be good people. Does that mean they are suppressing a darker side of themselves to please their God and receive some reward in the afterlife but don't actually have a true and natural desire to live a good life and be kind to the people around them?!

    I guess we should thank religion in that case.

    I read before can't recall where now, that heaven was created because organised religion recognised that man wasn't naturally inclined to altruism but the primal desire for self preservation.


  • #55
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,190 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Ah, your one of them.

    My what is one of what?


  • #56
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    I think most people do good because of an ingrained sense of humanity. This was vital for humans to be able to cooperate and build communities.
    I read about an anthropologist been asked what was the first sign of civilization. The answer wasn't an art work or painting it was a human skeleton that had a healed femur break.
    The only reason that individual survived was because someone else took care of them. For other animals in the wild a broken femur would be death. We had to lose aggression to survive in large groups, and we needed large groups to develop language skills, cooperation, etc.

    The aggression levels in chimpanzees our nearest primate relative are very high compared to humans.

    Been good for the vast majority of people, is our natural state.
    Obviously the crime and horrors that are committed prove many people are not like that, but I like to have faith in the inherent goodness of most people.

    I don't have a problem with religion that doesn't force it's views on others but I don't think we need religion to do good.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/remyblumenfeld/2020/03/21/how-a-15000-year-old-human-bone-could-help-you-through-the--coronavirus/amp/


  • #57
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    It feels nice to be nice to others. My mind feels more at ease when I believe I am being a good person. Just treat others with the respect and kindness you'd hope they would show you , don't they deserve it as much as you do.


  • #58
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Define good.


  • #59
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    good is non descriptive word yet i notice americans use it to describe everything ...how are you ..good ...what is this food like good ...

    It doesn't really tell me anything. Other than its not bad ...which again could mean anything.

    Be good...

    Call me by my actions.

    Why do good things?

    Firstly you can't know you are doing good things ...if you are consciously aware of doing them ....then you are doing them to be good.

    The more you think about why you should be good and come up with reasons why ....the less good it is.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    Its kind of like you see a rich man on the street you run up to him and put a five euro note in his hand and without explanation ask him to give it to that beggar up the street for you. Say he is doing this great favor to you. You aren't asking him to give some of his own money ...but well he probably will..or he might. Whereas if you ask him to ...then you have this whole debate ...is it a good thing ..is it a bad thing.

    Then again ...why do good things ...for your own selfish reasons sometimes. Which when you think about it is even doubly good.


    but my fav is this

    Why be good?

    no reason ...just cuz

    then you know its in your nature.


  • #60
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Originally Posted by Zebra3 View Post
    There you go again. People of "faith".

    It's a con.

    Why do you demand respect for people who are gullible?

    You have very narrowly defined parameters.

    Not all religions belief in an afterlife or god.


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  • #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    joe40 wrote: »
    I think most people do good because of an ingrained sense of humanity. This was vital for humans to be able to cooperate and build communities.
    I read about an anthropologist been asked what was the first sign of civilization. The answer wasn't an art work or painting it was a human skeleton that had a healed femur break.
    The only reason that individual survived was because someone else took care of them. For other animals in the wild a broken femur would be death. We had to lose aggression to survive in large groups, and we needed large groups to develop language skills, cooperation, etc.
    Did you read that in SAPIENS, by Yuval Harari?

    Because he dociments something very similar, he relates the story of the skeleton of a sick, immature homo spaiens which was clearly nursed during its lifetime, and he convincingly argues that it's in our nature to look after one another, that our natural state is communal, and not selfish.


  • #62
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Did you read that in SAPIENS, by Yuval Harari?

    Because he dociments something very similar, he relates the story of the skeleton of a sick, immature homo spaiens which was clearly nursed during its lifetime, and he convincingly argues that it's in our nature to look after one another, that our natural state is communal, and not selfish.
    awh!

    I read its the Oxytocin that makes us racist tho....you get a hit of it when you hear or see people like you ...but you don't get a hit of it when you see people different ...so that makes you see them diff

    The same emotion that makes you go awh cuddly ..makes you racist :eek:


  • #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    awh!

    I read its the Oxytocin that makes us racist tho....you get a hit of it when you hear or see people like you ...but you don't get a hit of it when you see people different ...so that makes you see them diff

    The same emotion that makes you go awh cuddly ..makes you racist :eek:
    I hadn't heard that, but I was told that hugging releases Oxytocin. So it turns out that a good antidote to racism might be hugs. Hug one another.


  • #64
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,940 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Did you read that in SAPIENS, by Yuval Harari?

    Because he dociments something very similar, he relates the story of the skeleton of a sick, immature homo spaiens which was clearly nursed during its lifetime, and he convincingly argues that it's in our nature to look after one another, that our natural state is communal, and not selfish.

    Isn't that a pretty common viewpoint? It's unlikely the species would have evolved as it has done but for communal systems of care/support/hunting/security etc.


  • #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Isn't that a pretty common viewpoint? It's unlikely the species would have evolved as it has done but for communal systems of care/support/hunting/security etc.

    Yes, it does make sense when you sit back and think about it. Reading that book it was the first time I'd encountered the idea expressed with clarity and physical evidence.

    Obviously we are a species whose success depends on co-operation, but it's useful to have the proof that it was always so!


  • #66
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    I hadn't heard that, but I was told that hugging releases Oxytocin. So it turns out that a good antidote to racism might be hugs. Hug one another.
    But its the oxytocin that makes you realize a difference between the people around you...

    When you hug someone like you ...then you get the release ..when you hug someone unlike you ..you don't get it...apparently!

    Who knows though.

    I think it goes after you are exposed to people and make friends with diff people.


    I guess you have to keep hugging consistently even if it feels awkward at first!


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  • #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I find it really weird and quite disturbing that some people need to imagine there's a god looking over their shoulder in order to be good people. Does that mean they are suppressing a darker side of themselves to please their God and receive some reward in the afterlife but don't actually have a true and natural desire to live a good life and be kind to the people around them?!

    Believing in God doesn't have to mean that you're religious.

    And having your own set of morals will influence how you behave and whether you feel guilt or remorse for what you do. A personal conscience doesn't need religion to exist.


  • #68
    mariaalice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,619 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Its nothing to do with good and evil its to do with reciprocity and the fact it benfis the person in the family/ community in the long run.

    Would someone want to end up on their own bitter and lonely with little contact from their children or family and no ecosystem of support in their old age, because of their selfishness and spending their life doing what they like without regard for others?

    Or would they like to spend the latter years surround by love friendship and support which evolves from not putting themselves first and not spending their life doing what they like?


  • #69
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Did you read that in SAPIENS, by Yuval Harari?

    Because he dociments something very similar, he relates the story of the skeleton of a sick, immature homo spaiens which was clearly nursed during its lifetime, and he convincingly argues that it's in our nature to look after one another, that our natural state is communal, and not selfish.
    Yeah it was in that book I read about the story originally. I've met it a few times since.


  • #70
    Ekerot
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Ekerot


    A

    I could never be cruel or rude, or at least I've tried to in the past but I've always felt bad or guilty or embarrassed by the way i acted. I wanted to be like my father the way he nipped arguments in the bud quickly and efficiently, but again I never felt right after doing it.

    Maybe that's just one of the weak points of having a conscience.


  • #71
    Dr Bob
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 3,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dr Bob


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract
    Because declaring yourself outside the law and morals is great , but the downside with doing what you want to who you want i you've really got to hope there isn't someone out there more powerful that can do what they want to you , the problem with the law of the jungle is that theres always a bigger predator than you.
    So we have laws and moral codes , the downside is that it restricts what we can do , but it also protects us .The Vikings used the term Outlaw for someone who messed up so bad they were thrown out of society , which meant laws didn't protect them , and they could be maimed or murdered without penalty
    Also you know its nice to be nice.
    Plus I'd like to be treated well , so I treat others the way I'd like to be treated.


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  • #72
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,180 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Blair Round Rivalry wrote: »
    What do you think is the point in being a good person? Is there any reward in trying to do the right thing, often with detrimental consequences to yourself? How does it make sense to you?

    You're not the first to ask, philosophers and theologians have been battling this one for a long time. It has been argued that external motivators for being a virtuous person, e.g. "God will kick my arse if I'm not good!" do not a good person make, the motive for good deeds arising therefrom being entirely self-serving. You also have a touch of that around the notion that being good makes people happy. You see the problem...

    For what it's worth, Aristotle argued that virtuousness - "being good", if you will - was the natural state of humanity, leading to a state of well-being and intellectual wisdom - "happiness", again if you will - and ultimately, becoming a philosopher. Mind you the same fella also said that would probably happen too if you married a bad wife, so in short, I don't bloody know... :pac:


    In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness.

    -- Shinmen Musashi


  • #73
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    There you go again. People of "faith".

    It's a con.

    Why do you demand respect for people who are gullible?

    It must be exhausting getting this uppity over something you apparently don't even believe in.


  • #74
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    It's a quick way to end up disillusioned and bitter about it all, I just mirror people.


  • #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Believing in God doesn't have to mean that you're religious.

    And having your own set of morals will influence how you behave and whether you feel guilt or remorse for what you do. A personal conscience doesn't need religion to exist.

    I keep reading this but I can't figure out why you quoted me but anyway, I agree.


  • #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I keep reading this but I can't figure out why you quoted me but anyway, I agree.

    Because the idea of looking over the shoulder is connected to the idea of original sin, where the priests and God are watching our behavior, where our immortal soul faces purgatory for failures to conform to the set of acceptable standards.

    ie. religion. The belief in "they are suppressing a darker side of themselves to please their God and receive some reward in the afterlife" tends to come from religion, where people are controlled within the rules/laws of that faith, and acting out against that restrictive nature, feel the need to touch some kind of "darker side". We're all from western cultures where religion plays a huge part in how we perceive good and evil.


  • #77
    Agricola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    For the vast vast majority it's about consequences.

    Not being good usually brings about many negative consequences, whether it be simple things like not exercising or smoking or big things like cheating on a partner or swindling people/avoiding tax or being a Kinahan.

    If society wasn't set up in such a way to deter such behaviour, almost everyone would be inherently bad.


  • #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Because the idea of looking over the shoulder is connected to the idea of original sin, where the priests and God are watching our behavior, where our immortal soul faces purgatory for failures to conform to the set of acceptable standards.

    ie. religion. The belief in "they are suppressing a darker side of themselves to please their God and receive some reward in the afterlife" tends to come from religion, where people are controlled within the rules/laws of that faith, and acting out against that restrictive nature, feel the need to touch some kind of "darker side". We're all from western cultures where religion plays a huge part in how we perceive good and evil.

    Do you think if someone doesn't believe in an organised religion but does believe in a god, they don't believe their God is watching or passing any judgement on them?


  • #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Agricola wrote: »
    For the vast vast majority it's about consequences.

    Not being good usually brings about many negative consequences, whether it be simple things like not exercising or smoking or big things like cheating on a partner or swindling people/avoiding tax or being a Kinahan.

    If society wasn't set up in such a way to deter such behaviour, almost everyone would be inherently bad.

    So how do you explain the people who set their own lives back or bring negative consequences to themselves to help improve the lives of others?


  • #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Do you think if someone doesn't believe in an organised religion but does believe in a god, they don't believe their God is watching or passing any judgement on them?

    I think it depends on their personal perception of what God represents. Whereas with religion, you're accepting a version that conforms to a set construction.

    My own version of God is more similar to a Terry Pratchett novel. A somewhat senile God who has little interest in what I do... and as long as I'm happy with my behavior, then he/she/it will feel the same. After all, God made me this way, and set the obstacles in my way, to develop me over time, so God will be accepting of the morals that I have created for myself, since I don't apply those same morals on to other people.


  • #81
    Agricola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So how do you explain the people who set their own lives back or bring negative consequences to themselves to help improve the lives of others?

    Well those people certainly aren't the vast vast majority are they. But if you mean people like carers, well they are usually family members of those who need care. I was in that boat myself, it's no different to having to look after yourself. It's just what you do.
    I mean "being good" in general. How many people would be good about not parking in disabled bays if there wasn't the deterent of a hefty fine attached to it. Not too many is my guess.


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  • #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I think it depends on their personal perception of what God represents. Whereas with religion, you're accepting a version that conforms to a set construction.

    My own version of God is more similar to a Terry Pratchett novel. A somewhat senile God who has little interest in what I do... and as long as I'm happy with my behavior, then he/she/it will feel the same. After all, God made me this way, and set the obstacles in my way, to develop me over time, so God will be accepting of the morals that I have created for myself, since I don't apply those same morals on to other people.

    So what do you think of the people who say they are good because their God wants them to be good rather than saying it's because they want to be good themselves. For example, I was training a woman in for a role with a charity several years ago and we got to chatting. She told me she strongly believed in God and her faith was very important to her. She asked me about my own belief and when I answered her she said how horrible it was not to believe because "you have no motivation to be a good person". I find it worrisome that she only feels she can act good because her God wants her to or is watching or whatever.


  • #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Agricola wrote: »
    How many people would be good about not parking in disabled bays if there wasn't the deterent of a hefty fine attached to it. Not too many is my guess.

    :( Fair enough but I really hope you're wrong.

    I like to think empathy is a big driver of how we act and having the ability to think.. if I was injured, unwell, had additional needs etc. I would hope that the bay would be left open for me, so I will leave it open for others who do have those issues.

    Behaving good not because some good or evil force is watching, whether that's a god or a devil or a police force or a government or a nosey neighbour but because we can understand how it feels to be treated unkindly and based on that understanding we choose to be good and we choose to be kind.


  • #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So what do you think of the people who say they are good because their God wants them to be good rather than saying it's because they want to be good themselves. For example, I was training a woman in for a role with a charity several years ago and we got to chatting. She told me she strongly believed in God and her faith was very important to her. She asked me about my own belief and when I answered her she said how horrible it was not to believe because "you have no motivation to be a good person". I find it worrisome that she only feels she can act good because her God wants her to or is watching or whatever.

    I don't see that it matters, unless when she does bad things, that she passes responsibility on to God too... If being good/bad is externalised, then I wouldn't be a huge fan...

    But TBH, each to their own.


  • #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I don't see that it matters, unless when she does bad things, that she passes responsibility on to God too... If being good/bad is externalised, then I wouldn't be a huge fan...

    But TBH, each to their own.

    Yes. Like those who are homophobic and claim it's against God's wishes for example. They would tell you they are good people, live good lives motivated by their God but they are also the first one's to judge others. Anyway, naturally not all those who believe in God behave that way. Just like many of the people who selected other reasons for behaving good, do believe in God. My original post was merely a musing about those who claim to only be good because God is watching/wants them to. I find that worrisome and like you say each to their own.


  • #86
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Been good is easy, it is trying to work out the greater good or the lesser of two evils where things get messy.
    That is where societal norms and cultures come into play.
    Nasty, horrible behaviour can quite easily become socially acceptable in the right situations.

    Humans are capable of all kinds of atrocities then.

    I'm not judging, I have never been tested in extreme situations and I live in a society that values fairness.

    I have been watching some docs about the second world war and seeing pictures ( in colour which makes it more real imo) and the carnage and death is staggering.

    We all know logically that it happened but trying to actually imagine living through that I find difficult. Human life can become very cheap.


  • #87
    SharpshooterTom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    Most humans are inherently bad when pushed, we're a terrible species and it wouldn't be the worst day in the world honestly when the human race ceases to exist.


  • #88
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    SharpshooterTom wrote: »
    Most humans are inherently bad when pushed, we're a terrible species and it wouldn't be the worst day in the world honestly when the human race ceases to exist.

    I'd find it an unpleasant day personally.


  • #89
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,940 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    SharpshooterTom wrote: »
    Most humans are inherently bad when pushed, we're a terrible species and it wouldn't be the worst day in the world honestly when the human race ceases to exist.

    I actually think most people are inclined to be good but that fear, bad experiences can cause them to act differently.

    I also think if you expect to see the good in people, you will be more likely to see it.


  • #90
    SharpshooterTom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I actually think most people are inclined to be good but that fear, bad experiences can cause them to act differently.

    I also think if you expect to see the good in people, you will be more likely to see it.

    Most people are assholes online, I actually asked this question over a month ago here, obviously the anonymity factor is huge coupled with the fact that there are no repercussions for dickish behaviour.

    But I do believe why so many people are rude and obnoxious online, lacking any empathy, is indicative of what most people actually are when the mask is taken away from them.

    My online interactions especially on twitter following politics has made me increasingly misanthropic.


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  • #91
    jaxxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    Otherwise, you'd just be a c*nt.


  • #92
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Most people are nice enough online. You just dont notice people being nice enough and not saying much when there are a few people ranting non-stop mixed in with them.


  • #93
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,940 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    SharpshooterTom wrote: »
    Most people are assholes online, I actually asked this question over a month ago here, obviously the anonymity factor is huge coupled with the fact that there are no repercussions for dickish behaviour.

    But I do believe why so many people are rude and obnoxious online, lacking any empathy, is indicative of what most people actually are when the mask is taken away from them.

    My online interactions especially on twitter following politics has made me increasingly misanthropic.

    It's an interesting concept. My gut reaction is to disagree with it because I think, instinctively, we are more inclined to want to be part of a group than to be isolated and so being nice is more conducive to that. There are of course outliers to this. Not everyone wants to be part of a group, but, generally more do than don't I think.

    I do think the anonymity factor does influence online behaviour, but not sure if it is to mean that people reveal their true colours, or just that people are seeking to stand out and that it is easier to do so by being argumentative or rude.


  • #94
    JaCrispy
    Registered Users Posts: 628 ✭✭✭JaCrispy


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Faith? You mean believing in something that does not exist. Easier if you say it that way. Reveals it all for the swindle that it is.



    Prove I'm not "God".


    Bigotry is alive and well on boards.


  • #95
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    SharpshooterTom wrote: »
    Most humans are inherently bad when pushed, we're a terrible species and it wouldn't be the worst day in the world honestly when the human race ceases to exist.

    Ah now, we're not that bad.


  • #96
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,283 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So, I'm generally good because of the law of attraction. Doing good, attracts good things to happen.

    I used to believe this, but it took me a long time to realise that the good I was giving was not being reciprocated, and indeed my goodness was being taken advantage of. Go forward a few more years, and due to working as a Garda and dealing with scum, and seeing mostly the bad in life, has left me a good bit colder, and quite pessimistic about life and humanity.

    As an example, I genuinely believe that the vast majority of people who do good is because of option 4, because it applies to everyone even if they picked 1, 2 or 3. It makes you feel good: personal gratification. Because otherwise society would disintegrate: benefits you. Because God told me to: so I can get into heaven/on the good side of my chosen deity. It's like those folks who post that they've donated to charity, or who share those horror stories from other countries and throw in a line about how hard it must be, all the while posting on their latest iPhone connected to Wi-Fi in their first world society, it's all done for personal gratification and want of other people to tell you how good you are.

    Now, I'm basically a hermit. I'm still good to people, but the amount of people is very small in comparison to what it used to be, and it's mainly friends and family (which is still bordering on the one-way street thing). An example, I give my of-age nieces lifts to/from pubs/clubs/gatherings. It works for me, because I work/live nights, so when I'm not working I'm awake anyway. Aside from the odd time the nieces give me money for fuel, the parents give me feck all for saving them the bother of having to do it/pay for taxis. They did get me a stand for my PS4/PSVR and accessories last Christmas, which I genuinely didn't expect, so that was nice, but still a fraction of what I did for them (including bringing their drunken loud asses home on occasion). You could say that I'm just bitter for giving and not receiving, but isn't that the crux of this thread?

    A lot of give and very little receipt will wear one down eventually. That's what happened with me. And I genuinely think the vast majority of humanity are takers, with little to no concern for their fellow humans outside of their own little cliched circle. I know there are exceptions, not everyone is like this, and you actually find nicer people in poorer places, but first world countries are littered with self entitled, self important liars, who would quickly turn to you for help but turn their back when you need it.

    Hermitism for life! And basically, the only reason I'm good these times is because I just couldn't be dealing with the fallout from being bad. So, self gratification still.


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  • #97
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,889 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    TV glamorouis criminals (shows like Love/Hate, Shameless and the likes)

    Esp in this country some bad people get left off easy for there crimes. Dodgy people have there ways of sneaking through life while good people who try and do right get ****ed

    I'd rather just be good in life, live it well, try my best and be happy. There will be always be pricks who try and put you down


  • #98
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    I behave as I so because it's the way I am. I consider myself decent and reasonably honest/fair etc, and am always willing to acknowledge my failings.

    Treat me fair and civilly and I'll return the favor.
    Don't, and I wouldn't pi$s on you if you were on fire in front of me.

    And of course there's a god. And he hasn't done a bad job overall.


  • #99
    garyscargo
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭garyscargo


    Because E.T. said so. You know, right before or after he fingered that kid (can't remember which).


  • #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    I used to believe this, but it took me a long time to realise that the good I was giving was not being reciprocated, and indeed my goodness was being taken advantage of. Go forward a few more years, and due to working as a Garda and dealing with scum, and seeing mostly the bad in life, has left me a good bit colder, and quite pessimistic about life and humanity.

    As an example, I genuinely believe that the vast majority of people who do good is because of option 4, because it applies to everyone even if they picked 1, 2 or 3..

    Well, I haven't given everything up "to the universe". It's mostly a nice idea that I use as a frame for what my routine is in regards to life. As for seeing people in a bad way..... I was a credit controller (similar to a debt collector) for well over a decade, whereby my job was to listen to people lie to me. Then I became a teacher, which often felt that my job was to be some kind of clown while many tried to cheat around me, because they were cleverer. Which they rarely were. You can frame people any way you want.... that's a lesson in itself.

    For example, On a personal level, I cut away the users and abusers. The people who constantly demand my attention so that they can complain about their own life, or others. Those kind of people are energy vampires who suck the joy of life out of others, because their negativity is constant. Been there, done that, and no interest tolerating it again. So I tend to surround myself with friends/relationships, which don't make me want to murder anyone.

    I don't try to categorize people into groups, in fact, I rarely think about them at all, simply falling back on my instincts to determine whether they're someone I want to spend time with. After some practice, instinct can be a powerful guide about the people I meet in life. (I live in a predominately non-white nation, with an extremely difficult language to learn).

    Honestly, I don't think much about people anymore. Oh I did when I was younger, confused by their behavior (and my own), angry or bitter at the wide range of negative experiences. However, now in my 40s, I no longer feel that way. I've learned to simply "let go". Very little bothers me anymore.

    As for whether people are generally good... err... I don't think it really matters because of how changeable most people are.


  • #101
    8kczg9v0swrydm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭8kczg9v0swrydm


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I find it really weird and quite disturbing that some people need to imagine there's a god looking over their shoulder in order to be good people. Does that mean they are suppressing a darker side of themselves to please their God and receive some reward in the afterlife but don't actually have a true and natural desire to live a good life and be kind to the people around them?!

    I not sure it quite works that way. I think many religious people seek to do good not out of a fear of God, but to please Him, as He is the good Father of all humanity. It would be similar to doing something kind to your biological sibling to please your dad who loves you both.

    Although, a consideration of the justice of God can be a good initial teacher of morality or a last line of defense against yourself and your disordered passions. I think that most of us are aware of situations where we knew something was very wrong, but there was massive internal or external pressure to nevertheless 'go for it'. For a Christian, the knowledge that the action will result in turning our back on God in a serious way could just make the difference.

    As for a natural desire to do good, I would agree that it is there (again, for a Christian it would just be another sign of God's handiwork). However, this is so general and vague, that without a serious moral education a person can persuade himself that everything that he does is 'good'. Circles will be squared. The goodness in the human being has to be channeled properly, so that the good is an objective one, not merely subjective and therefore relative.


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