3 Way Fridge Not Working

21-07-2020 4:41pm #1

The fridge in our 1994 campervan is not working (except on gas which takes a while to get working).

Given it's age it may need replacing.

Can someone recommend where to have it looked at/repaired/replaced?

We are based in Dublin but can travel.

Thanks

21-07-2020 10:41pm

Operational ones don't exactly work either. People defend them but the same people would never fit one in their house.

Go electric.

landmarkjohn · 23-07-2020 7:44pm

To my knowledge the 3 way works this way

1. Gas
2. 240 V mains, this mode only works when hooked up to mains. (could take a while to know if it's working)
3. 12 V, this mode only works when the engine is running.

The correct switch(es)position for the 3 modes must be right. Just saying as I had mine for about 10 years before we figured this out.... the fridge was always cold at the end of a journey.

Markcheese · 23-07-2020 9:09pm

Try googling your fridge and it's fault ... Have you had it long ? Did it work before ?

23-07-2020 10:52pm

landmarkjohn wrote: »

The correct switch(es)position for the 3 modes must be right. Just saying as I had mine for about 10 years before we figured this out.... the fridge was always cold at the end of a journey.

That depends on how the installer wired it. You can use all three at once if you're imaginative. Running it on mains from an inverter works better than 12v because mains has a thermostat.

It uses 10 times the energy of a compressor model. The wind blows the pilot out frequently and spoils food. If one forgets to changeover: spoils food. If gas bottle runs out: spoils food. If operating on gas and atmospheric conditions change temperature ie night happens; spoils food. If you drive for 10 hours on 12v the contents will freeze because no thermostat, spoils food. €20 every 3 weeks to power with buthane.

If you try to power it from a battery: spoils battery.

€600 for your pleasure.

You only need 100W of solar to power a 60L compressor jobber. Turn it on, leave it on, no worries.

23-07-2020 10:58pm

If you fancy a trip to Pat Horan's they can probably resusitate it. I've a "working" one I inherited with a vehicle, probably <100 hours on it.
I'll be donedealing it when I start the conversion.

Buford T Justice · 30-07-2020 11:29am

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

That depends on how the installer wired it. You can use all three at once if you're imaginative. Running it on mains from an inverter works better than 12v because mains has a thermostat.

It uses 10 times the energy of a compressor model. The wind blows the pilot out frequently and spoils food. If one forgets to changeover: spoils food. If gas bottle runs out: spoils food. If operating on gas and atmospheric conditions change temperature ie night happens; spoils food. If you drive for 10 hours on 12v the contents will freeze because no thermostat, spoils food. €20 every 3 weeks to power with buthane.

If you try to power it from a battery: spoils battery.

€600 for your pleasure.

You only need 100W of solar to power a 60L compressor jobber. Turn it on, leave it on, no worries.

Any suitable links for an electric one?

30-07-2020 10:07pm

Anything with a danfoss compressor (dometic/shorline/ waeco) or a cheap and cheerful mains fridge and large efficient sine inverter

Buford T Justice · 31-07-2020 9:59am

I've been reading that the small mains fridges are very inefficent vs the camper one, so may be something to consider too.

autumnalcore · 01-08-2020 7:43pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I've been reading that the small mains fridges are very inefficent vs the camper one, so may be something to consider

Was what you were reading backed up by any examples or facts and figures.

Vapour absorption is a minimum of 5 times less efficient than vapour compression even theoretically then add the fact that you've strapped a heater to the outside of the poorly insulated box you are trying to keep cool. And the rubbish maximum heat differential attainable with vapour absorption.

I've been running a husky beer fridge on inverter for last three years it's rated A+ 95kwh per annum which is 260wh per day which is only enough to run our old absorption fridge for 3 hours. Was mainly worried the pipes would fracture internally in the compressor with all the bad roads so I bought secondhand for €50 or so and its still trucking.i would buy a slightly bigger one if I was getting one again

lastsaturday · 01-08-2020 8:50pm

Have a look at this video.. It got my fridge working fine..
https://youtu.be/agZJ3T66wOI

531 wrote: »

The fridge in our 1994 campervan is not working (except on gas which takes a while to get working).

Given it's age it may need replacing.

Can someone recommend where to have it looked at/repaired/replaced?

We are based in Dublin but can travel.

Thanks

Buford T Justice · 02-08-2020 11:15pm

autumnalcore wrote: »

Was what you were reading backed up by any examples or facts and figures.

No. Like I said, I was reading, that's all

04-08-2020 6:36pm

There's been more innovation in mains fridges than 12/24v volt compressor fridges. The upshot of this is one can run a mains fridge and a resonable inverter quiescent load for the same power requirements of a 12/24v jobber. Saving ~€500 to be put towards a decent inverter.

Comparatively a 60L compressor fridge will use in the order of 250Wh per day whereas an absorption fridge will use about 2.4kWh per day for less reliable cooling with a human thermostat on gas.

Another failing of the absorption fridge is that it is usually setup to run continuously from the alternator. Most split charge systems will deliver about 10A charge. 15A would be considered good, 20A far above average. I generally expect to see ~7A.
Split charge systems I build incidentally deliver >70A.

So if attempting to recharge a depleted service battery while driving with an absorption fridge running you can expect your charge system to be delivering somewhere between -3A and +5A. An altogether pointless excercise.

A compressor fridge will use about 3.5A and turn off at desired temperature.
I have nothing good to say about gas fridges and I've plenty of experiance with them to colour my opinion, they're boat anchors. €600 buoyant boat anchors...:rolleyes:

Ask yourself a question, would you fit it in your house?
If the answer is no, why would you pay 5 times the market value of something you would for the disservice?

An Ri rua · 24-11-2020 1:58am

If you were in my situation with s 3 way fridge only working on gas, not mains, would you leave it unfixed and buy a mini fridge? If space wasn't an issue which it's not for me.

24-11-2020 2:23am

I replace working absorption fridges with compressor jobbers.

There's about 5 > 10 gas fridge not working threads here every year. I've never seen a broken compressor jobber thread. Anyone else notice that?

Buford T Justice · 24-11-2020 10:12am

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I replace working absorption fridges with compressor jobbers.

There's about 5 > 10 gas fridge not working threads here every year. I've never seen a broken compressor jobber thread. Anyone else notice that?

Admit it, you just hate 3 way fridges! :P

spaceHopper · 24-11-2020 1:32pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Admit it, you just hate 3 way fridges! :P

Open the door - food spoils

Yes he doesn't like them. Mine is great by the way, it keeps the beer cold, what else do you need.

It runs of mains (used it for two weeks in France) Runs of engine but I tend to forget to turn off the gas so the thermostat kicks in and starts a fan to cool the element. Then I've to stop and turn off the gas so I've unplugged the 12 from the engine. Had to replace the sparker as it was going slow now it starts easily every time and I've never had it blow out.

24-11-2020 3:41pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Admit it, you just hate 3 way fridges!

Sure. Extortionate Jank.
Have a "perfectly working" extremely low hours one for sale. PM me if you wanna get robbed a discount on RRP.

spaceHopper wrote: »

Open the door - food spoils

Yes he doesn't like them. Mine is great by the way, it keeps the beer cold, what else do you need.

Superior reliability at 1/6 the cost and 10 times the efficiency?

Would you use a gas fridge in your house? Why not? Because they're shyte, unreliable and ridicously expensive to run?

Buford T Justice · 24-11-2020 7:13pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Sure. Extortionate Jank.
Have a "perfectly working" extremely low hours one for sale. PM me if you wanna get robbed a discount on RRP.

Tempting, but I'll either repair the one I have for about €15 in parts, or I'll get an electric under the counter one. I have you to thank for that - you've put me right off them you have.

24-11-2020 8:53pm

Ah bottom...are ya sure that ya don't want to give me €350 for something guaranteed to spoil yer provisions every 2 weeks?
I lived with one for years. Careful what tinternet advice ya follow. Beer is way more tolerant of temperature fluctuations than say chicken and milk.
Humans are the least reliable part of most systems. Electric is fully automated because it's efficient and doesn't need supply changeovers.

Good rule of thumb though...I wouldn't fit anything in a camper that I wouldn't use in a house. I would use a 12volt compressor in a house for that matter. The gas yolk is a door stop lovingly stored until spring when it'll fetch a better price.

spaceHopper · 25-11-2020 1:54pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Would you use a gas fridge in your house? Why not? Because they're shyte, unreliable and ridicously expensive to run?

No but I wouldn't run my camper fridge off 220 either. It suits me perfectly in the camper for a long weekend surfing. I don't have much storage space for banks of batteries invertors... and I need gas for cooking and heating so it suits me to run the fridge off gas.

If it was live a board I'd be bigger, solar and off grid so I'd have a 12/220 fridge maybe a top loader so that the food doesn't spoil every time you open the door.

25-11-2020 6:43pm

All ya need to run a Danfoss is 100W of solar and some external insulation.
Your gas bottle will last months longer without the fridge. It's ludicrously inefficient.
I'm tempted to do a no gas build. Or just carry gas in the winter maybe.

25-11-2020 8:23pm

If you don't use the mains element of the 3-way fridge the thermostatic regulation on 12v is on 100% duty indefinitely, and on gas it's manual compensation for atmospheric variations. €600 fridge man...:rolleyes:

Jaden · 26-11-2020 2:49pm

I know I will end up regretting this. But I have a 3 way under counter in my Carioca. What _should_ I get, if I want to go Gas free? I have 2 Leisures (one added to the existing one), and ideally, I only need it the fridge to run for maybe 48 hours tops before I get to a hookup.

Thinking specifically of the "Gas off" rule on Ferries, but also off-grid for a couple of nights.

26-11-2020 5:40pm

If you want to get rid of the gas fridge 100W solar + 30Ah per day overhead (in case there's no sun, can be a battery, campsite hook up or alternator...my fridge runs for 15Ah p/d but I insulated it and the condenser cooling is top-notch). If you want to get rid of Gas from the vessel I'd say about a quarter ton to a half ton of lead, 1kW of solar maybe 1.2kW, twin alternators, a ~20kg inverter, induction hobs, halogen oven anna diesel heater oughta cover ya.

spaceHopper · 27-11-2020 12:33pm

Jaden wrote: »

I know I will end up regretting this. But I have a 3 way under counter in my Carioca. What _should_ I get, if I want to go Gas free? I have 2 Leisures (one added to the existing one), and ideally, I only need it the fridge to run for maybe 48 hours tops before I get to a hookup.

Thinking specifically of the "Gas off" rule on Ferries, but also off-grid for a couple of nights.

Sir Liamalot wrote:

If you want to get rid of the gas fridge 100W solar + 30Ah per day overhead (in case there's no sun, can be a battery, campsite hook up or alternator...my fridge runs for 15Ah p/d but I insulated it and the condenser cooling is top-notch). If you want to get rid of Gas from the vessel I'd say about a quarter ton to a half ton of lead, 1kW of solar maybe 1.2kW, twin alternators, a ~20kg inverter, induction hobs, halogen oven anna diesel heater oughta cover ya.

Or you could put the milk in the freezer before you go and put it in the fridge.

:D

niloc1951 · 27-11-2020 5:22pm

My trick for the gas off requirement on ferries.
Get a dozen 250ml bottles of water in the local supermarket, put them in the home freezer for a couple of days before you head off (open each one first and empty a little water out to allow for expansion as they freeze).
Transfer them to the motorhome fridge for the ferry journey and use them for cool drinking water when you get to France after they've thawed out.
Waste not want not

27-11-2020 7:35pm

Jaysus...or yee could just get a fridge that works the way it's supposed too. Turn it on, never worry about it?!

Ye're only defending them because it's inconvenient to change it.

niloc1951 · 27-11-2020 10:29pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Jaysus...or yee could just get a fridge that works the way it's supposed too. Turn it on, never worry about it?!

Ye're only defending them because it's inconvenient to change it.

I must say the fridge I have is a 150 litre three-way fridge freezer which has now given 15 years of trouble-free service except for needing a replacement burner last year.
The convenience of it automatically selecting 12v, 230v or gas depending on which is available great. One of the good features is it will change automatically to gas if the mains voltage drops to 190v which can happen on caravan and camping sites with an insufficient supply from the grid, so you never end up with defrosted or insufficiently chilled food.

27-11-2020 10:47pm

Didn't I hear of those fridges being super dangerous at petrol filling stations?

My compressor jobber paid for itself in one year based on gas savings and reliability compared to the lemon I jettisoned.

niloc1951 · 27-11-2020 10:59pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Didn't I hear of those fridges being super dangerous at petrol filling stations?

.

Don't know where you heard that, fake news perhaps!

Quote from the manual
When switching from one energy source to another, there are some delays implemented in the AES system. The 15 min. delay between switching off the engine and starting gas mode is intended to delay the starting of gas mode e.g. when stopping at a filling station.

27-11-2020 11:05pm

Probably

Seems to be a few fake incidents

niloc1951 · 29-11-2020 3:29pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Probably

Seems to be a few fake incidents

No mention of the fridge being the cause.
A car fire
Another car fire
and not a fridge in sight

30-11-2020 7:03pm

True Niloc, it probably had nothing to do with the naked pilot light thuther side of an unguarded 4" x 12" intake in the presence of inflammable vapours unlikely any ever had too.

Is it easier to look at the economics rather than the inefficiency?

I can buy enough solar to power a compressor fridge for 30 years with what I would spend running a gas fridge for 5 weeks.
If I pay €5 for a campsite hookup to power the fridge from mains that's equivalent to powering a compressor off utility for 20 days and nights.
If my split charge system only produces 7A < 15A when driving (like most) and there's a permanent load of 10A attached to the other side (like most) how long will it take to charge my house battery with a net charge current of -3A < 5A. Compared to a compressor fridge running 3.5A at 25% duty cycle?

If I adjust the temperature with the gas flame knob, setting the fridge to 3°C internal with an atmospheric temperature of 10°C in the day, say at night the atmospheric temperature drops to 0°C. If I don't faddle with the manual thermostat on a device with no feedback, what temperature will my provisions be in the morning if the wind doesn't blow out the pilot light?

How do I inspect the pilot light is on? By opening the door and letting all the cold out!

If one wants to argue it's not worth paying the extra for a few weekends a year A: the lemon was built into the price and B: say the camper was €50k and it's used 10 weekends for 5 year that's €1k per weekend, the fridge is a drop in the ocean.
Say you need it to be reliable... 5-week return on investment...that's before you account for all the spoilages, the cost and time of getting bottles refilled etc...

30-11-2020 9:24pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

If I pay €5 for a campsite hookup to power the fridge from mains that's equivalent to powering a compressor off utility for 20 days and nights.

If the only reason I have to visit the campsite is to charge a battery and power a fridge. It's €20 to pass the gate and €5 to get some lecky minimun.

For the low low price of 8 nights in a campsite I can buy enough solar & charge controllers to never need a campsite for the rest of the life of my vehicle.

...and then sell the electronics after the chassis rots out.

niloc1951 · 30-11-2020 11:19pm

Sir Liamalot, your highly technical and financial musings are somewhat beyond me.

All I can recount are my own real-life experiences of over 30 years using having a caravan and then a motorhome using a three-way gas fridge has proved to be most satisfactory. My current 150 litre AES fridge freezer has performed perfectly in outside ambient temperatures from winter sub-zero to summer 40°C +. Chilled food has remained chilled and frozen food remained frozen.

As for running cost, for me, that has never been an issue. A fill of 25litres of LPG at €0.73/litre will last a number of weeks in summer without the use of a mains hook-up and that not only runs the fridge but also covers all hot water and cooking requirements, in winter with the heating running 24/7 that can reduce to maybe a week.
I run 200w of solar and that takes care of all my electrical requirements like tv, radio, lighting, water pumping, satellite receiver, etc. A 50A B2B unit supplements the solar when driving if the sun's not shining.

At a cost of €0.73/litre for LPG my 150L fridge which uses 400g/24hours costs about €0.60 per day, I've no complaint. For the cost-conscious, there are also much smaller fridges with equally smaller running costs.

Finally, with over 1.6m motorhomes on the roads of Europe, a few catching fire in service stations, as cars and other vehicles also do, is no indication that having a properly installed AES fridge on board is a significant hazard.

PS., as a rule, I never take an EHU if staying on a camping pitch if it's not included in the basic price.

01-12-2020 1:24am

niloc1951 wrote: »

my 150L fridge which uses 400g/24hours costs about €0.60 per day, I've no complaint. For the cost-conscious, there are also much smaller fridges with equally smaller running costs.

That's not a small running cost. 5.2kWh per day 1900kWh per year.
20 times worse than it's competition.
€300 per year to run from mains.
€108 of propane per year plus the getting it.

With a ~€2600 price tag?

An A++ 135L (€450) fridge will use 94kWh.
€15 per year

238882115alt10?$rsp-pdp-port-1080$

I can run the mains 135L with a €400 1.5kW inverter, a third of a 300W €100 solar panel and a €100 MPPT charge control with zero upkeep cost for the life of the fridge and I can use the solar & inverter for other appliances too.

That 135L A++ is a similar efficiency as a 60L Danfoss 12v/24v.

CelticRambler · 01-12-2020 10:27am

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

say the camper was €50k and it's used 10 weekends for 5 year that's €1k per weekend, the fridge is a drop in the ocean.
Say you need it to be reliable... 5-week return on investment...that's before you account for all the spoilages, the cost and time of getting bottles refilled etc...

In fifteen years, I've never had any food spoil in my 3-way fridge; in the same period, I've lost about 1000€'s worth food in the always-on, mains-powered home freezers ... which have a habit of refusing to work when my surge-protected fuseboard takes offence at a local lightning strike while I'm off in the camper.

But your "drop in the ocean" comment is right on point. For those of us who come into the camper/motorhome market at a time and a place in our lives where we can't build them from scratch, there's almost never the opportunity to choose a compressor fridge. I asked for several modifications to be made to the catalogue version of my vehicle, including some relating to the electrical system, but changing the fridge was never in the picture.

And while I am actively considering replacing it now (not least because of your interventions on this forum! :pac: ) the fact remains that the additional cost of the gas is still a drop in the ocean. A 13kg refill of propane will set me back about 25€ and - in the summer - last about two weeks, all utilisations included. In the same period, I'll spend about 300€ on diesel. Adding extra battery and inverter weight is going to increase that side of the equation.

The interest for me in moving to a solar-powered "domestic" fridge lies in the incompatibility of the bottles across different European countries. For a long time, I planned to install a re-fillable LPG tank, but the cost of that retrofit is likely to be more than changing the fridge-freezer arrangement, and if the fridge isn't burning through the gas, then my 2x13kg bottles should be enough for most future excursions.

niloc1951 · 01-12-2020 3:35pm

I suppose in a nutshell what I and others are saying is that when considering the overall cost of enjoying the motorhome lifestyle the relatively meagre difference between the running cost of a compressor fridge versus an absorption fridge is of no consequence. It's like the old adage attributable to owning a luxury car, "if you need to ask about its MPG's you can't afford one".

Gas is a pain in the butt especially for those who travel internationally due to empties only being exchangeable in their country of origin, but fixed refillable bottles/tanks overcome that issue. For those of us with back issues fixed bottles/tanks obviate the need to hump around the best part of 30kg and that's also a good reason, apart from the balance sheet, in their favour. Pain relief/avoidance often costs money.

Yes, all thing being equal a 12v compressor fridge is probably a better option. However, the additional cost and weight of enough battery and solar to provide a reliable supply is a factor to be considered. I do expect developments in solar and battery technologies to change the equation undisputably in favour of the compressor fridge as time passes. In the meantime 'gas is yer man' for most of us.

01-12-2020 5:09pm

I can't work with a gas fridge if you want the vehicle to be autonomous. It's like fitting halogen lamps to an EV.
Gas is €2 per litre by the bottle.

Technology is here Niloc 300W of solar is €100. That's enough to power 3 compressor fridges. Arguably you don't need any additional battery.
The fitters need to move into the current century.

niloc1951 · 01-12-2020 10:14pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I can't work with a gas fridge if you want the vehicle to be autonomous. It's like fitting halogen lamps to an EV.
Gas is €2 per litre by the bottle.

Technology is here Niloc 300W of solar is €100. That's enough to power 3 compressor fridges. Arguably you don't need any additional battery.
The fitters need to move into the current century.

Gas is not €2 per litre by the bottle, an 11kg bottle which contains approx 22 litres @ €32 per bottle = €1.45
Please tell where 300w of solar can be bought for €100
With 300w of solar at these latitudes between the autumn and spring, 100w output would be a good result by day with zero bt night = 1/2 a compressor fridge.

01-12-2020 10:57pm

€2 per litre in a 5kg bottle niloc. I run dual cylinders in the van because it's a pain in the hoop running out up a mountain. No coffee and melted ice cream ruins every morning. I got rid of the second cylinder after I flogged the gas fridge and went electric.

I'm flying a 265W MPPT and a Sterling 120A B2B that performs as well as the cable I used to connect it. I don't use the EHU.

300W of solar at these latitudes will produce ~1kWh per day April to November.
peaking at 2kWh.

Solar panels for grown ups here.
36 cell "12v" jobs are a rip off these days.

niloc1951 · 02-12-2020 1:12pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

€2 per litre in a 5kg bottle niloc. I run dual cylinders in the van because it's a pain in the hoop running out up a mountain. No coffee and melted ice cream ruins every morning. I got rid of the second cylinder after I flogged the gas fridge and went electric.

I'm flying a 265W MPPT and a Sterling 120A B2B that performs as well as the cable I used to connect it. I don't use the EHU.

300W of solar at these latitudes will produce ~1kWh per day April to November.
peaking at 2kWh.

Solar panels for grown ups here.
36 cell "12v" jobs are a rip off these days.

Yes, and you can pay way more then €2 per litre if you choose to use Camping Gaz.
As for the rest, well, it's pretty much beyond me and it's all a matter of what best fits. I know there may always be a person out there with a 'better' way or 'cheaper' way of doing something but at the end of the day, much of what we choose is the result of a combination of knowledge, budget and capability or the lack thereof.

I know that your posts on the issue of electrics demonstrate a deep understanding of the subject but like the sea, the deeper one goes the less illumination there is.

CelticRambler · 02-12-2020 7:38pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Solar panels for grown ups here.

Hmm. 110€ including VAT for the 320W model - or I can get the 330W version from my nearest online merchant for 89€ ... :rolleyes:

But here's the thing: 18kg! :eek: Compared to the 110W flexible panel at 1kg (for around twice the price ... so a total of six times the cost for one sixth of the weight. But still a few hundred Ah of battery to add. And an inverter.

So we're back to this same trade-off of highly cost- and energy-efficient performance of the power-bank versus the cost of a retro-fit and loss of payload.

As it happens, my local supermarket is running a 30% cashback promo tomorrow on household appliances. "My" fridge (right size and colour to replace the Dometic three-way, but pricey enough at 210€) has been sitting there unsold for two years, and I've been waiting for just such an offer to come up. Only suddenly it's not.

02-12-2020 9:43pm

As for the rest sadly Niloc the market is offering us mobile installations that are dysfunctional without a tether.

Celtic; Thin solar is not UV stable; it lasts 5 years not 30+. It's between 4 & 10 times the cost of rigid 60cell. It is less efficient and if you heat sink it to a van it derates hugely compared to rigid that has rear-side cooling.

The simple fact of the matter is every time I step outside the motorhome market I can offer 2 > 4 times the performance at at least half the cost with a substantially longer expected lifespan and higher reliability.

I'm not paying list prices for solar by the way. I generally get 300Watters for ~ €75

Why do you need to add battery and an inverter because you got more solar?
I lost a gas bottle switching to an electric fridge, I did not increase my battery size just my generation capability for continuous year round autonomy and I can power my lights and laptop with that generation. I tried plugging a laptop into a gas bottle...it didn't work!?

I gained space internally and doubled the solar footprint on the roof where it doesn't bother anyone (and arguably fits on the exact same roof rack).

CelticRambler · 03-12-2020 12:02am

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Thin solar is not UV stable; it lasts 5 years not 30+. It's between 4 & 10 times the cost of rigid 60cell. It is less efficient and if you heat sink it to a van it derates hugely compared to rigid that has rear-side cooling.

That's useful to know. :cool:

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Why do you need to add battery and an inverter because you got more solar?
I lost a gas bottle switching to an electric fridge, I did not increase my battery size just my generation capability for continuous year round autonomy and I can power my lights and laptop with that generation. I tried plugging a laptop into a gas bottle...it didn't work!?

No chance of losing a gas bottle, unless I switch to a re-fillable LPG system - as it is, I carry up to four bottles when I'm on an extended winter trip across central Europe (2x French, 2x German) which just about covers my heating and cooking needs. If I'm desperate, I can store all the fridge stuff outside (current temperature here, right now, 3.4°C and save the propane for myself; but at the other extreme, with minimum overnight temperatures in the mid-20s, and daytime temps hitting 40°, could a fridge survive on 200 stored Ah?

03-12-2020 12:15am

My old gas (as efficient as I could make it which is to say twice as good as standard) boat anchor fridge consumed 20L of gas a week. I lost a gas bottle because now they last for months with just cooking to supply that I always come back to harbour before the bottle reaches low volume.

A 12v fridge if insulated and cooled well uses 15Ah > 20Ah a day in fair weather. It's really not hard to generate that. Solar works well, it produces less in winter but the ambient is colder too so it runs less.

A simple cable upgrade ought to have the alternator producing ~ 60Ah per hour. Ironically a lottov these B2B units are current limiting compared to wiring the van better. A 30A unit as is pretty standard from most manufacturers would be bottlenecking the system 3X it's potential. They're really just lipstick application devices for porcine installs.

03-12-2020 12:32am

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

A simple cable upgrade ought to have the alternator producing ~ 60Ah per hour. Ironically a lottov these B2B units are current limiting compared to wiring the van better. A 30A unit as is pretty standard from most manufacturers would be bottlenecking the system 3X it's potential. They're really just lipstick application devices for porcine installs.

I bet someone is gonna say there's no way €150 of cable & control can beat £600 boxes.

That's 35mm² cable intelligently routed compared to a Sterling "120A Input" B2B.
The alternator output is a function of battery size and state of charge.
The above example was a 235Ah battery.
I ran the same test on a 440Ah battery and split charge out-performed the Sterling by ~10%

Ctek, Redarc, etc only make <30A B2Bs ...less is more, Mad isn't it!

03-12-2020 12:55am

The next by the way we're being lied to/given poor advice about thing...

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That 50% "rule".
First of all it's a rule of thumb based on cost effective energy extraction. Second it's not exactly true.
If I discharge to 80% SOC I get double the cycles as if I discharge to 60% SOC etc.

So we can read from this as long as the battery is charged correctly (new can of worms...not opening that one) meaning to specific gravity 1.28 once a month then just keep it above 20%.

The reason I say that is because the alternator is wayyy more efficient when the battery is very low and horses in power right fast that's received extremely efficiently as opposed to tyring to shoe-horn in the last 20% at low current long duration as most would have us do.

Having said that, I don't recommend pushing systems that hard unless the cabling, terminations and belts are in good order.

CelticRambler · 03-12-2020 12:58am

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

My old gas (as efficient as I could make it which is to say twice as good as standard) boat anchor fridge consumed 20L of gas a week. I lost a gas bottle because now they last for months with just cooking to supply that I always come back to harbour before the bottle reaches low volume.

Hmm. Yeah ... I still wouldn't be happy tootling through Bavaria and the Czech Republic for three weeks in temps of -6° to -15°C with nothing but a single part-used French bottle of propane to keep me warm at night!

Anyway, what's the B2B that you've mentioned several times

... and the alternator to which you refer - is that vehicle's engine-driven one, or a different item altogether?

03-12-2020 1:06am

I generally prefer diesel heaters because I already have a big fuel tank I can reload anywhere. The van has a wood burning stove...never doing that again. So much hassle over nothing..

B2B = Battery to battery charger a purported split charge optimisation device. Actually a bottleneck a bad install by compensating for all the embedded issues without addressing the root cause device. More popular than recabling alternators for some mad reason.
Alternator is standard engine driven one in above references...but yes it can mean all sorts of other machines too.

3 Way Fridge Not Working

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