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03-06-2020, 22:51   #2476
jd1983
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I fundamentally disagree with the narrative that the govt "have done a great job" with covid 19. 1600 plus deaths, the botched job of our nursing homes, the issues regarding PPE with key frontline staff at the beginning of the crisis, 7000 covid 19 cases with healthcare staff, their lax response to clusters in particular in meat factories, spending €300 million plus on that disastrous value for money private hospitals deal that only serves to benefit the super rich

I personally believe that barring the likes of Susan Mitchell of the Business Post, Irish times and the Irish examiner, everyone else working in the public journalism industry are giving far too much of an armchair ride to Leo and the govt here. Remember key decisions about reopening the country or introducing tough restrictions are made by Dr Holohan and NPHET. The govt then just go along with their recommendations.

If Leo and FG are not really putting in the extra mile in these govt formation talks which IMO is exactly what's happening because of their high poll ratings, once again they are putting the party interests ahead of the national interest. Thank God that the Irish Examiner are following this story as you just can't trust the pro FG MSM at all.

I always felt that FG lacked class at the best of times, but if Leo is genuinely determined that a second GE2020 during the middle of this once in a lifetime national health emergency, should take place for FG political gain then that's a new low for Irish politics. Leo is so out of touch with the realities of Irish life once again.

I truly believe that Fg are not serious about entering into a Green and FF axis. If I were a grassroots Green or FF member I would have grave concerns about FG's real agenda here. I haven't got much time at all for FG and Leo in general for a myriad of reasons.

But any attempt to railroad a second GE again in 2020 that I'm sure the majority of the Irish public do not want at this time would be most counter productive for Fg. A massive miscalculation of the public mood IMO that will backfire on them, I have no doubt.
I agree that the government has done a poor job throughout this crisis. I'd normally have some sympathy, as difficult decisions had to be made in a panic and mistakes will be made. However any sympathy or goodwill for the government from me has gone due to all the spin, propaganda and lack of humility by the government. Two of the highest priorities by the government at the beginning of this crisis was to hire a spin doctor and to ensure that tax exiles won't be adversely affected by the crisis. If the government had more humility throughout this crisis then mistakes would have been rectified quicker instead of being allowed to fester.
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03-06-2020, 23:38   #2477
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Two of the highest priorities by the government at the beginning of this crisis was to hire a spin doctor and to ensure that tax exiles won't be adversely affected by the crisis.
Do you have a link to any news items on this?
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04-06-2020, 06:54   #2478
 
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I agree that the government has done a poor job throughout this crisis. I'd normally have some sympathy, as difficult decisions had to be made in a panic and mistakes will be made. However any sympathy or goodwill for the government from me has gone due to all the spin, propaganda and lack of humility by the government. Two of the highest priorities by the government at the beginning of this crisis was to hire a spin doctor and to ensure that tax exiles won't be adversely affected by the crisis. If the government had more humility throughout this crisis then mistakes would have been rectified quicker instead of being allowed to fester.
Absolutely on the money jd1983. The narrative that "we are all in this together" rings hollow when as you correctly mention the deal that tax exiles got so that they wouldn't face any tax liability so to protect the interests of the super rich throughout this crisis.

Added to the most terrible value for money that was the private hospitals deal that again gave the wealthy owners of those hospitals a big golden handshake then really FG's reputation goes out the window.

Leo is egotisticaly obsessed about spin, good pr and above all else power. Anyone that thinks that FG will change for the better after their disastrous February general election, then they are foolishly mistaken.

With wealthy man best friend Leo in charge, then the same regressive economic policies that FG implemented since 2011 will continue unabated, that will punitively punish those with low or moderate incomes.

Look at the unemployment covid 19 payment scheme Workers could face a tax liability from this payment, according to revenue. In the coming weeks, we could see some workers who have availed of the €350 payment, return back to the less lucrative jobseekers benefit. Where's the fairness in all this. Of course the payment cannot continue indefinitely but IBEC made valid point of potential wave of job redundancies if income supports are removed too fast due to companies operating well below capacity. I hope that Minister Donohue and his dept are listening to this advise.

We are heading towards a critical phase on our nations history. The decisions and the policies that the govt pursue in these times of economic uncertainty are going to have a major impact on how and when the economy can turn around again. But I firmly believe that FG are the least capable to manage a fairer and progressive society that is what's required to deal with the economic fallout of covid 19. They failed miserably from 2011 onwards. Don't expect anything else different while Leo is at the wheel.
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04-06-2020, 07:17   #2479
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Absolutely on the money jd1983. The narrative that "we are all in this together" rings hollow when as you correctly mention the deal that tax exiles got so that they wouldn't face any tax liability so to protect the interests of the super rich throughout this crisis.

Added to the most terrible value for money that was the private hospitals deal that again gave the wealthy owners of those hospitals a big golden handshake then really FG's reputation goes out the window.

Leo is egotisticaly obsessed about spin, good pr and above all else power. Anyone that thinks that FG will change for the better after their disastrous February general election, then they are foolishly mistaken.

With wealthy man best friend Leo in charge, then the same regressive economic policies that FG implemented since 2011 will continue unabated, that will punitively punish those with low or moderate incomes.

Look at the unemployment covid 19 payment scheme Workers could face a tax liability from this payment, according to revenue. In the coming weeks, we could see some workers who have availed of the €350 payment, return back to the less lucrative jobseekers benefit. Where's the fairness in all this. Of course the payment cannot continue indefinitely but IBEC made valid point of potential wave of job redundancies if income supports are removed too fast due to companies operating well below capacity. I hope that Minister Donohue and his dept are listening to this advise.

We are heading towards a critical phase on our nations history. The decisions and the policies that the govt pursue in these times of economic uncertainty are going to have a major impact on how and when the economy can turn around again. But I firmly believe that FG are the least capable to manage a fairer and progressive society that is what's required to deal with the economic fallout of covid 19. They failed miserably from 2011 onwards. Don't expect anything else different while Leo is at the wheel.
You're a bleeding heart for bleeding the system aren't you.
These payments aren't going to last no matter whose in Govt because they're just unsustainable in the long term.
What about the poorly payed shop assistants and other essential workers, still working away at their 10 euro odd per hour who can't access these great payments.
If mass unemployment continues then the economy is goosed in the short to medium term.
The payments will have to be cut once all restrictions are lifted.
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04-06-2020, 07:52   #2480
jd1983
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Do you have a link to any news items on this?
Sure


https://www.thejournal.ie/tax-exiles...Apr2020/?amp=1

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ind...-39054064.html
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04-06-2020, 08:40   #2481
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There's a difference though between these things happening and saying they were two of their biggest priorities.

While the optics of the tax exiles decision isn't great, it's a.) hard to imagine that it took that much time and effort to implement and b.) probably was unavoidable because otherwise you could be opening yourself up to a legal challenge from people who could argue that it was physically impossible for them to leave the state.
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04-06-2020, 08:59   #2482
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There's a difference though between these things happening and saying they were two of their biggest priorities.
Plus, it's not clear to me why making a priority of hiring a head of communications is such a terrible thing. Effective public communications are absolutely fundamental to any successful strategy for combatting the spread of the infection. We should be much more concerned if thought had not been given put putting the right people in charge of this.
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04-06-2020, 09:30   #2483
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Plus, it's not clear to me why making a priority of hiring a head of communications is such a terrible thing. Effective public communications are absolutely fundamental to any successful strategy for combatting the spread of the infection. We should be much more concerned if thought had not been given put putting the right people in charge of this.
The same people giving out about a head of communications being appointed would be (or presumably are) giving out about "mixed messages" "lack of communication" "government confusion" etc.
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04-06-2020, 12:10   #2484
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Added to the most terrible value for money that was the private hospitals deal that again gave the wealthy owners of those hospitals a big golden handshake then really FG's reputation goes out the window.
How does it benefit the owners of a private hospital to provide services at cost for 3 months? They are making no profit.

This focus on the private hospitals deal as some kind of payment to the wealthy owners is one of the more ridiculous conspiracy theories floating around.
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04-06-2020, 20:39   #2485
jd1983
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There's a difference though between these things happening and saying they were two of their biggest priorities.

While the optics of the tax exiles decision isn't great, it's a.) hard to imagine that it took that much time and effort to implement and b.) probably was unavoidable because otherwise you could be opening yourself up to a legal challenge from people who could argue that it was physically impossible for them to leave the state.
"Legal Challenge" - I'm always amazed how some people will go to great lengths to justify actions to protect the such parasites. There was absolutely no chance of a successful legal challenge, these parasites will be resident in this country for at least 183 days this year, using our tax payer services and will not have to contribute to such services.
If you consider all the business's/people (e.g. airlines, hotels, retail etc.) that were adversely affected by lockdown measures, you actually think that billionaire tax exiles would have stood a chance of mounting a successful legal challenge due to lockdown measures if the residency rules weren't relaxed. If they even tried to mount a legal challenge the case would be mocked more than GO'D's & John Watters ridiculous case.
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04-06-2020, 20:45   #2486
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Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
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04-06-2020, 20:50   #2487
jd1983
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Plus, it's not clear to me why making a priority of hiring a head of communications is such a terrible thing. Effective public communications are absolutely fundamental to any successful strategy for combatting the spread of the infection. We should be much more concerned if thought had not been given put putting the right people in charge of this.
Concannon is a well known spin doctor and the government propaganda has stank since he was hired. Varadkar even told Ryan Tubridy that no mistakes were made

How many lives do you think the following photo saved? That photo op occurred whilst government ministers refused to meet the heads of the nursing homes.

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06-06-2020, 20:38   #2488
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How does it benefit the owners of a private hospital to provide services at cost for 3 months? They are making no profit.

This focus on the private hospitals deal as some kind of payment to the wealthy owners is one of the more ridiculous conspiracy theories floating around.
well basically they were guaranteed 3 months income when a lot of people wouldn't have been travelling for appointments or procedures
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06-06-2020, 23:34   #2489
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well basically they were guaranteed 3 months income when a lot of people wouldn't have been travelling for appointments or procedures
The Beacon hospital withdrawing from the Private Hospitals Association, and stating that in future they’ll negotiate their own deals, doesn’t exactly support the conspiracies that this was a generous deal for private hospitals.
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07-06-2020, 01:03   #2490
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The Beacon hospital withdrawing from the Private Hospitals Association, and stating that in future they’ll negotiate their own deals, doesn’t exactly support the conspiracies that this was a generous deal for private hospitals.
Have you any evidence to suggest it wasnt a good deal?

Considering that the government were paying for EVERY bed in private hospitals, and that many due to the corona virus would have chosen to delay minor elective surgeries, the private hospitals got a pretty good deal. They certainly would not have earned more had they not been called upon to provide extra public capacity by the government.

I'm not going to argue that is was wrong for the government to block book that additional capacity, any sensible government would have done exactly the same thing.

What I would argue is that having paid for that additional capacity why wasn't it utilised once we realised that it would not be required to prevent overflow of our public hospitals. Why was it not used for instance to segregate those residents in the nursing homes who had covid in order to protect any possible spread,which unfortunately is exact what happened.
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