Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

we'll be in debt for years, there won't be much capital expenditure going on

serfboard wrote: »

Our dispersed population in the West Or Ireland, shown by the fact that the main virus cases are in the densely populated East of the country, demonstrates even more effectively that a transport solution designed for mass transit, i.e. trains, is not needed here. And how great would it be to have a Greenway available for people to cycle and walk on now, during the exercise break from quarantine.

A tiny amount of whatever stimulus package is provided in the aftermath would do it.

the trains need to be packed before there is risk of infection ....to be sure that won't happen on WRC!

galwaytt wrote: »

Whilst I agree a rail and velo solution are dead in the water, once we're out of CV-19 they'll be looking for 'schemes' left/right/centre to put people on & money into, to reduce the Live Register.

A Greenway would soak up a few bodies for a while.

CV-19 isn't the end of everything: it's a (big) Pause on everything.

Unless they come up with a magic money tree I very much doubt that. There's far more pressing public works than a greenway when we emerge from this.

serfboard wrote: »

If that's the case, then the WRC has completely vanished over the horizon.

i would expect either option has done such now given our current situation.
the game has changed big time now.

Isambard wrote: »

absolutely the case. People are only just waking up to the effect on the Economy. All the extra Social Welfare benefits have yet to be paid for, all the businesses in trouble and likely not to reopen and the effect of that on the Banks, all the people who can't now afford their rent or mortgage , the reduction in income for the State by way of taxes and PRSI. It's frightening when you try to imagine what state we'll be in when the crisis is over, and the ongoing social effects of the tragedy.

WRC, Greenway, Metro. You name it and it's all on the line. The money borrowed now just adds to what we owe and still has to be paid back. Considering that Irish politics has never believed in ploughing money into any kind of rail/PT infrastructure outside roads etc. during recession, the Greenway probably has more chance over the short to medium term. Anything else is off the table, but I'm sure there will a few quid for more studies over the next 10 years. Business as usual while doing nothing.

Remind me what trains run on again?

Talking of on line petitions....:D

Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign April 24th 2020 for immediate release: words 415(main body text)

• 25,000 sign Greenway petition for West of Ireland.
• West of Ireland petitioners sign up in their thousands to support greenway on closed railway from Sligo to Athenry.
• Western Rail Trail: ‘must be included in programme for Government.’
• Calls for half million Euro rail review to be seen by public.

A spokesman for the Western Rail Trail Campaign – an alliance of community-based campaign groups in Galway, Mayo and Sligo campaigning to preserve the alignment of the closed rail line from Athenry to Collooney by utilising the route for tourism and leisure as a greenway until such time as a railway may be possible – has welcomed the fact that an online petition asking to use the closed railway route from Athenry to Sligo as a greenway has now hit 25,000 signatures. ‘This is a real landmark, 25,000 people is a massive display of public opinion,’ said a spokesperson of the Western Rail Trail campaign.

‘There is overwhelming support for the greenway in Sligo, Mayo and Galway, with active community support groups in each county along the route,’ the spokesperson added. ‘The majority of petitioners are based in these three counties so this is a locally driven, West of Ireland campaign.’

The spokesman added ‘we are asking all members of the negotiating teams for the new Government to take note of the level of public support that exists for this project, and to include it in the programme for Government. In the post Covid-19 economic conditions there will be a need for civic projects which are economically feasible, which will have immediate social and economic benefits, and which have a short pay-back time. The Western Rail Trail meets all these criteria.’

The spokesman also called for the release of the independent report and assessment of the closed railway by EY Consulting which was delivered to the Department of Transport in October 2019 at a cost of half a million Euro. He said that the Department of Transport received over 200 Freedom of Information requests asking for the report, and about 20 TDs submitted Parliamentary Questions asking for the report in Q4 of 2019. Transport Minister Shane Ross who lost his seat in the recent election has steadfastly refused to release the report. He added that ‘it is astonishing how someone who is no longer a TD can decide that the public cannot be allowed to see a report which cost half a million Euro in Taxpayer funding. The numbers signing this petition show that there is public disquiet about the suppression of this report.’

The spokesperson concluded by saying ‘25,000 people supporting the greenway shows the huge level of support there is for the project, it would represent a ray of hope and good news in these difficult times if a decision was made in its favour.’

Contacts:
Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaign

Link to petition for editors:

https://www.change.org/p/western-rail-trail-campaign-create-a-walking-and-cycling-greenway-on-the-closed-railway-from-sligo-to-athenry


Free to use images here: https://www.sligogreenway.com/media--images.html (please acknowledge Sligo Greenway Co-op as owners)

Greaney wrote: »

I'd like to see the report itself...

So would we all. The question is, why haven't we? After all, we paid for it.

Greaney wrote: »

If the editorial policy of a newspaper has a bia, and many do, than this isn't telling us everything. I'd like to see the report itself...

Put an FOI in asking for it.....you will get the same stock answer over 200 folk did, even better if you are a TD put a PQ in, quite a few have and also got refused, or a government minister, one did and also got a PFO, or ask for it as a registered body like a council or the NWRA, its been done and more PFO's or a negotiating party in the Government talks and more PFOs. The DTTAS is under lockdown! The report will not be released the unelected Lord Ross has given a diktat...though shalt not let the public see what their money is being spent on.

An appeal to an original FOI got refused it is now sitting with the ombudsman, that process could take another 6 months. It I ludicrous.

The only ones it seems not making a fuss about the release of this report is West on Track, that in itself must say something. Sean Canney TD and a previous minister insisted on this report being commissioned and written, but he has not asked for it to be in the public domain. Has he seen it! errr we have to presume he has and no demand for it to be published, make of that what you will.

The beat on the street is that it does not endorse the WRC but you know how these things can be fudged beyond belief. The saga goes on, tiresome isn't it?

westtip wrote: »

Sean Canney TD and a previous minister insisted on this report being commissioned and written, but he has not asked for it to be in the public domain.

Which leads to only one, inescapable, conclusion.

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

A hardcore of posters on Boards don’t want more train services, because they deem rail to be unusually wasteful That seems to be the obvious one alright.

I wouldn't interpret opposition to the WRC as opposition to rail.

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

A hardcore of posters on Boards don’t want more train services, because they deem rail to be unusually wasteful That seems to be the obvious one alright.

Honestly I do wonder sometimes, "hardcore" "don't want more trains" you have a vivid imagination LG perhaps supporters of WRC could be described as living in fantasy land. I don't recall seeing any anti-rail arguments from supporters of an alternate use of the line, what I have seen is pragmatic realism, Hardly hard core anti rail sentiments. Each to their own; I find your view tres bizarre and somewhat lacking in any level of rational thinking.

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I find your press releases hilarious. “A spokesman”. Do you get a podium out in your bedroom and film it on a selfie stick?

Really is that your view of life? whatever the spokesperson or even spokesman says it seems to work, and if you have written any press releases (and aside from this project I have written thousands in my life) it is an accepted from of presentation of views to the media, who by the way frequently call me for interviews on this subject after bashing our a press release for further quotes and interviews and soundbites for news items; Anyway the protocols of writing press releases aside, what I do find is that most of our press releases get coverage, sometimes minimal sometimes a lot and the media seems to accept them as credible, but hey ho your opinions are always amusing if nothing else, oh and real names have to be taken out of press releases put up on boards to apply the rules of this forum........as the spokesperson was saying.....hey ho on we go....

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Many of the railway supporters also don't want a miserable railway service spread even thinner. Many would like to see proper infrastructure develope and that line opend up the northwest to Galway city, Limerick and Dublin.
What are the disadvantages of rail in the 21st century? Rail in general or just rail in Ireland or even just rail in the west of ireland?

I should have used limitations rather than disadvantages.

Railways are no longer the only game in town, when once they were just about the only way to get around over long distances. Today, they are useful at moving large quantities of people or goods, typically over long distances, and should continually be built for this purpose as it is more efficient in the long run.

I think we can all agree that the area the WRC proposes to serve is fantastically low density. As such, a motorway - from Cork to Sligo, the Atlantic Corridor as it was billed I believe back in the Transport 21 days - would be a much better prospect for economic development and society than a railway.

monument wrote: »

I'll be unpopular here and reject the positions of both of sides on this.

The sure roads are better people really are not learning from mistakes made here as well as the US or UK. And the tide might be changing on the heyday of large-scale road building: ie "New roads face Heathrow-style court action threat" https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51665682 etc.

We can still build high quality roads and not make the mistakes that have been made here, as well as in the UK, US and all over the world.

If you think having more vision on rail than currently exists is just dreaming, you have a problem if you're also still suggesting a Cork-Sligo motorway. If you're not a climate change denier you as as bad as them. Economic growth based on more and more roads is not compatible with the emission reductions which are needed. We don't have time to switch all cars to electric cars, electric cars aren't that green and large-scale road building is really not green.

I'm not suggesting more and more roads, and in doing that it's absurd to say I am as bad as a climate change denier.

Is there some other way we are going to move people and goods efficently into, out of and around the West of Ireland that does not involve the use of roads?

I'm quite aware of this phenomenon Monument. That's why I would support widespread road pricing to discourage the long distance commute we see in Dublin.

But you still haven't addressed the need for good quality roads enabling safe and quick transport over long distances? What is the alternative to decent roads?