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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

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Isambard

we'll be in debt for years, there won't be much capital expenditure going on

serfboard

Our dispersed population in the West Or Ireland, shown by the fact that the main virus cases are in the densely populated East of the country, demonstrates even more effectively that a transport solution designed for mass transit, i.e. trains, is not needed here. And how great would it be to have a Greenway available for people to cycle and walk on now, during the exercise break from quarantine.

A tiny amount of whatever stimulus package is provided in the aftermath would do it.

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

Our dispersed population in the West Or Ireland, shown by the fact that the main virus cases are in the densely populated East of the country, demonstrates even more effectively that a transport solution designed for mass transit, i.e. trains, is not needed here. And how great would it be to have a Greenway available for people to cycle and walk on now, during the exercise break from quarantine.

A tiny amount of whatever stimulus package is provided in the aftermath would do it.

the trains need to be packed before there is risk of infection ....to be sure that won't happen on WRC!

Isambard

westtip wrote: »

the trains need to be packed before there is risk of infection ....to be sure that won't happen on WRC!

that's not true. An infected person sneezing on a handrail could leave infection for others to pick up for days after (for instance). It only takes one to infect dozens.

whisky_galore

galwaytt wrote: »

Whilst I agree a rail and velo solution are dead in the water, once we're out of CV-19 they'll be looking for 'schemes' left/right/centre to put people on & money into, to reduce the Live Register.

A Greenway would soak up a few bodies for a while.

CV-19 isn't the end of everything: it's a (big) Pause on everything.

Unless they come up with a magic money tree I very much doubt that. There's far more pressing public works than a greenway when we emerge from this.

serfboard

whisky_galore wrote: »

There's far more pressing public works than a greenway when we emerge from this.

If that's the case, then the WRC has completely vanished over the horizon.

end of the road

serfboard wrote: »

If that's the case, then the WRC has completely vanished over the horizon.

i would expect either option has done such now given our current situation.
the game has changed big time now.

Isambard

end of the road wrote: »

i would expect either option has done such now given our current situation.
the game has changed big time now.

absolutely the case. People are only just waking up to the effect on the Economy. All the extra Social Welfare benefits have yet to be paid for, all the businesses in trouble and likely not to reopen and the effect of that on the Banks, all the people who can't now afford their rent or mortgage , the reduction in income for the State by way of taxes and PRSI. It's frightening when you try to imagine what state we'll be in when the crisis is over, and the ongoing social effects of the tragedy.

Grandeeod

Isambard wrote: »

absolutely the case. People are only just waking up to the effect on the Economy. All the extra Social Welfare benefits have yet to be paid for, all the businesses in trouble and likely not to reopen and the effect of that on the Banks, all the people who can't now afford their rent or mortgage , the reduction in income for the State by way of taxes and PRSI. It's frightening when you try to imagine what state we'll be in when the crisis is over, and the ongoing social effects of the tragedy.

WRC, Greenway, Metro. You name it and it's all on the line. The money borrowed now just adds to what we owe and still has to be paid back. Considering that Irish politics has never believed in ploughing money into any kind of rail/PT infrastructure outside roads etc. during recession, the Greenway probably has more chance over the short to medium term. Anything else is off the table, but I'm sure there will a few quid for more studies over the next 10 years. Business as usual while doing nothing.

Isambard

Grandeeod wrote: »

WRC, Greenway, Metro. You name it and it's all on the line. The money borrowed now just adds to what we owe and still has to be paid back. Considering that Irish politics has never believed in ploughing money into any kind of rail/PT infrastructure outside roads etc. during recession, the Greenway probably has more chance over the short to medium term. Anything else is off the table, but I'm sure there will a few quid for more studies over the next 10 years. Business as usual while doing nothing.

yes the Greenway could be progressed as a kind of FAS scheme perhaps.

Add the M20 to your list

marno21

I'm going to take the opposite view here. Even the Taoiseach said today that austerity won't be an effective weapon to deal with the fallout here.

I can see Metrolink, DART Expansion, the M20, N17 dual carriageway all going ahead in the next few years with the tailwind of ECB funding at zero or negative interest rates. A relaxation of fiscal stability rules to push on with big capital investment projects which will stimulate the economy, and decarbonisation where possible.

If FG or FF decide to let the country have a second helping of the post 2008 economic policies then they may as well drop the keys of the Ministerial fleet over to Mary Lou's house in the morning.

Isambard

22 billion hole in the economy they say now..... that'll have to be funded before anything else. over half a million on social welfare.

marno21

Isambard wrote: »

22 billion hole in the economy they say now..... that'll have to be funded before anything else. over half a million on social welfare.

It's a different story when every country in the Western world is in the same situation though.

We ****ed up many times more than our peers in 2008, we actually stand a chance of being one of the lesser affected countries this time.

I still don't see the ECB regarding Athenry-Tuam as a stimulus project though.,

Lord Glentoran

Isambard wrote: »

absolutely the case. People are only just waking up to the effect on the Economy. All the extra Social Welfare benefits have yet to be paid for, all the businesses in trouble and likely not to reopen and the effect of that on the Banks, all the people who can't now afford their rent or mortgage , the reduction in income for the State by way of taxes and PRSI. It's frightening when you try to imagine what state we'll be in when the crisis is over, and the ongoing social effects of the tragedy.

The ECB may decide that pumping money into legacy systems with a time limited cut off like diesel fuelled road transport is a non runner.

Hotblack Desiato

Remind me what trains run on again?

donvito99

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Remind me what trains run on again?

Online petitions.

[Deleted User]

donvito99 wrote: »

Online petitions.

:D:D:D:D:D

Lord Glentoran

donvito99 wrote: »

Online petitions.

Diesel for railways is screwed as well. Funny enough, over eighty years ago battery technology was used effectively on Irish railways but that would spoil a smart Alec answer.

Griselda

its a game changer.

end of the road

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Remind me what trains run on again?

railway tracks.

donvito99 wrote: »

Online petitions.

nope wrong see above for the answer.

westtip

Talking of on line petitions....:D

Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign April 24th 2020 for immediate release: words 415(main body text)

• 25,000 sign Greenway petition for West of Ireland.
• West of Ireland petitioners sign up in their thousands to support greenway on closed railway from Sligo to Athenry.
• Western Rail Trail: ‘must be included in programme for Government.’
• Calls for half million Euro rail review to be seen by public.

A spokesman for the Western Rail Trail Campaign – an alliance of community-based campaign groups in Galway, Mayo and Sligo campaigning to preserve the alignment of the closed rail line from Athenry to Collooney by utilising the route for tourism and leisure as a greenway until such time as a railway may be possible – has welcomed the fact that an online petition asking to use the closed railway route from Athenry to Sligo as a greenway has now hit 25,000 signatures. ‘This is a real landmark, 25,000 people is a massive display of public opinion,’ said a spokesperson of the Western Rail Trail campaign.

‘There is overwhelming support for the greenway in Sligo, Mayo and Galway, with active community support groups in each county along the route,’ the spokesperson added. ‘The majority of petitioners are based in these three counties so this is a locally driven, West of Ireland campaign.’

The spokesman added ‘we are asking all members of the negotiating teams for the new Government to take note of the level of public support that exists for this project, and to include it in the programme for Government. In the post Covid-19 economic conditions there will be a need for civic projects which are economically feasible, which will have immediate social and economic benefits, and which have a short pay-back time. The Western Rail Trail meets all these criteria.’

The spokesman also called for the release of the independent report and assessment of the closed railway by EY Consulting which was delivered to the Department of Transport in October 2019 at a cost of half a million Euro. He said that the Department of Transport received over 200 Freedom of Information requests asking for the report, and about 20 TDs submitted Parliamentary Questions asking for the report in Q4 of 2019. Transport Minister Shane Ross who lost his seat in the recent election has steadfastly refused to release the report. He added that ‘it is astonishing how someone who is no longer a TD can decide that the public cannot be allowed to see a report which cost half a million Euro in Taxpayer funding. The numbers signing this petition show that there is public disquiet about the suppression of this report.’

The spokesperson concluded by saying ‘25,000 people supporting the greenway shows the huge level of support there is for the project, it would represent a ray of hope and good news in these difficult times if a decision was made in its favour.’

Contacts:
Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaign

Link to petition for editors:

https://www.change.org/p/western-rail-trail-campaign-create-a-walking-and-cycling-greenway-on-the-closed-railway-from-sligo-to-athenry

Free to use images here: https://www.sligogreenway.com/media--images.html (please acknowledge Sligo Greenway Co-op as owners)

TCDStudent1

I have seen a good few locals informally use the railway as a greenway during the lock down. I guess some are using it as a way for exercise within the 2k radius.

marno21

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I have seen a good few locals informally use the railway as a greenway during the lock down. I guess some are using it as a way for exercise within the 2k radius.

I've seen the same with the old West Cork railway on the outskirts of Cork even though its severely overgrown.

Makes you wonder how useful all these old alignments would be instead of growth areas for briars.

Greaney

eastwest wrote: »

I see that this weeks Connacht Tribune has the leaks from the rail report.
What took them so long? That info has been doing the rounds for two months at least.
"Review sees no future for rail" it says.
So, tell us something new.

If the editorial policy of a newspaper has a bia, and many do, than this isn't telling us everything. I'd like to see the report itself...

serfboard

Greaney wrote: »

I'd like to see the report itself...

So would we all. The question is, why haven't we? After all, we paid for it.

donvito99

Greaney wrote: »

If the editorial policy of a newspaper has a bia, and many do, than this isn't telling us everything. I'd like to see the report itself...

Yup, it must be that they're biased on not that they've seen extracts of a report which quite possibly concludes that reopening a railway of this kind won't improve the lot of those who live in the region.... what we already know.

westtip

Greaney wrote: »

If the editorial policy of a newspaper has a bia, and many do, than this isn't telling us everything. I'd like to see the report itself...

Put an FOI in asking for it.....you will get the same stock answer over 200 folk did, even better if you are a TD put a PQ in, quite a few have and also got refused, or a government minister, one did and also got a PFO, or ask for it as a registered body like a council or the NWRA, its been done and more PFO's or a negotiating party in the Government talks and more PFOs. The DTTAS is under lockdown! The report will not be released the unelected Lord Ross has given a diktat...though shalt not let the public see what their money is being spent on.

An appeal to an original FOI got refused it is now sitting with the ombudsman, that process could take another 6 months. It I ludicrous.

The only ones it seems not making a fuss about the release of this report is West on Track, that in itself must say something. Sean Canney TD and a previous minister insisted on this report being commissioned and written, but he has not asked for it to be in the public domain. Has he seen it! errr we have to presume he has and no demand for it to be published, make of that what you will.

The beat on the street is that it does not endorse the WRC but you know how these things can be fudged beyond belief. The saga goes on, tiresome isn't it?

donvito99

If a report said rebuilding the railway would make the West worse off, there would still be a campaign to rebuild it because, ehh, you might have to pick up a pint of milk in Oranmore but you live in Claremorris and you break out in hives at the sight of a faster, less expensive and more frequent coach service.

serfboard

westtip wrote: »

Sean Canney TD and a previous minister insisted on this report being commissioned and written, but he has not asked for it to be in the public domain.

Which leads to only one, inescapable, conclusion.

Lord Glentoran

serfboard wrote: »

Which leads to only one, inescapable, conclusion.

A hardcore of posters on Boards don’t want more train services, because they deem rail to be unusually wasteful That seems to be the obvious one alright.