X-Men: Dark Phoenix

Tony EH · 01-10-2018 10:09am

El Duda wrote: »

The movies biggest failing will be the fact that the unremarkable Sophie Turner will be the focus. She was incredibly bland in Apocalypse and I don't think she is good enough to carry a blockbuster like this.

As much as I like this series, it really needs a break and a reboot.

I have no idea what's going on in this thing any more.

Is there an actual way to watch these X Men films, other than chronological release order?

The first three were pretty good. I've yet to see 'Logan', although a few scenes has me interested. Saw one of the ones set in the 60's, but hadn't a clue where that fits in.

Confused as fuck with the whole show at this stage.

pixelburp · 01-10-2018 10:13am

This is the fourth film in the partially-rebooted X-Men series; you got

X-Men: First Class (that's the one set in the 60s)
X-Men: Days of Future Past (set in the 70s, arguably one of the best X-Men film since X2, and kinda resets the timeline)
X-Men: Apocalypse (set in the 80s and a bit rubbish TBH)
X-Men: Dark Phoenix

'Logan' I think is just set in its own pocket world, as an intentional, nihilist burning down of the Jackman / Stewart timeline. It's technically a great movie, but not one to watch if you're feeling a little depressed - or indeed hold any great fondness for the 90s X-Men movies.

McLoughlin · 01-10-2018 10:15am

Tony EH wrote: »

I have no idea what's going on in this thing any more.

Is there an actual way to watch these X Men films, other than chronological release order?

The first three were pretty good. I've yet to see 'Logan', although a few scenes has me interested. Saw one of the ones set in the 60's, but hadn't a clue where that fits in.

Confused as fuck with the whole show at this stage.

After the first 3 you are based just to watch them in release order with the mindset that each film is just standalone. Continuity between the films is really none existent

brianregan09 · 01-10-2018 6:05pm

Release date pushed back to the summer again a day after the trailer went out with Feb 14th all over it, they really don't know what there at with these films , they just can them at this stage with the impending takeover

El Duda · 02-10-2018 1:03pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2018/10/01/dark-phoenix-flaming-sophie-turners-x-men-movie-could-trouble/

Test screening reactions were extremely negative, with anonymous posters on Reddit lining up to let rip. One poster acknowledges "things could still get tweaked here and there. But I do believe some things won’t change. What can’t change is the movie being really underwhelming. Really lower your expectations because this one is not good....[t]hey repeat moments from X3 I kid you not."

Reshoots were done in August and September 2018; pickup shots are routine for blockbuster films, but two months of reshoots tend to raise eyebrows.

Then there is the issue of Dark Phoenix’s even changing release date. The film was originally slated to be released on November 2, 2018. Then it then moved to February 14, 2019. And then after the tepid-to-negative reception of its first trailer, it was moved for the third time to June 7, 2018.

Oh dear. This is going to be awful.

Loughc · 02-10-2018 1:05pm

El Duda wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2018/10/01/dark-phoenix-flaming-sophie-turners-x-men-movie-could-trouble/

Test screening reactions were extremely negative, with anonymous posters on Reddit lining up to let rip. One poster acknowledges "things could still get tweaked here and there. But I do believe some things won’t change. What can’t change is the movie being really underwhelming. Really lower your expectations because this one is not good....[t]hey repeat moments from X3 I kid you not."

Reshoots were done in August and September 2018; pickup shots are routine for blockbuster films, but two months of reshoots tend to raise eyebrows.

Then there is the issue of Dark Phoenix’s even changing release date. The film was originally slated to be released on November 2, 2018. Then it then moved to February 14, 2019. And then after the tepid-to-negative reception of its first trailer, it was moved for the third time to June 7, 2018.

Oh dear. This is going to be awful.

Fox running the franchise into the ground, hand it over to Marvel and go it's your problem now.

correction · 02-10-2018 1:06pm

You always had to assume that would be the case with Simon Kinberg directing. He's been a great producer but you can't assume someone can make that transition.

pixelburp · 02-10-2018 3:19pm

Giving Kinberg the directors chair was a foolhardy decision, especially after Apocalypse getting a bit of a lukewarm reception; and while it could have gone either way, if those stories are true we're looking at another The Mummy situation.

OwaynOTT · 03-10-2018 1:46pm

Fox either produced hits or duds, there has been no middling ground with them.

Wolverine Orgins - massive dud
Logan - hit
Fantastic 4 - dud
Deadpool - hit
Days of future past - hit
X3 - Dud

I think it's a pity their stuff is reverting to marvel because they have tried something different with a lot of their stuff and studio interference has only ruined roughly half of them. Fantastic 4 would have been interesting if it was left to its own devices and their TV stuff has been good.

Dark Phoenix will be the only story that they produce two duds with.

Foxtrol · 03-10-2018 2:35pm

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Fox either produced hits or duds, there has been no middling ground with them.

Wolverine Orgins - massive dud
Logan - hit
Fantastic 4 - dud
Deadpool - hit
Days of future past - hit
X3 - Dud

I think it's a pity their stuff is reverting to marvel because they have tried something different with a lot of their stuff and studio interference has only ruined roughly half of them. Fantastic 4 would have been interesting if it was left to its own devices and their TV stuff has been good.

Dark Phoenix will be the only story that they produce two duds with.

Don’t really see the pity. Fox were pretty much dragged kicking and screaming into doing Deadpool and that led into them to milk the R rating dollars with Logan. New Mutants, if it ever sees the light of day, maybe another one but that again it looks like a forced hand due to what a mess they’ve made of the X-men and Fantastic Four.

Getting an odd one-off movie that might be ‘different’ is not worth the complete waste of two pillar teams of Marvel properties.

correction · 03-10-2018 2:37pm

We'd have never gotten Deadpool or Logan if they were with Disney.

Foxtrol · 03-10-2018 3:49pm

correction wrote: »

We'd have never gotten Deadpool or Logan if they were with Disney.

I just covered that in my post.

Even ignoring the fact that we barely got either with Fox (if Reynolds etc weren’t as persistent we wouldn’t have), those two films are not worth completely wasting the massive potential of X-men and Fantastic Four characters and storylines. Fox have managed to make a complete mess of each property with both their original and attempted re-boots! I’d much rather Marvel get a chance with them than hoping Fox would be third time lucky.

OwaynOTT · 03-10-2018 4:03pm

We've gotten some great xmen movies too though. Not just those two r-rated ones you mention foxtrol.

It's a pity marvel don't start doing some standalone movies maybe like a marvel knights version or something.

I think it's great that a user called foxtrol is all for fox losing control.

correction · 03-10-2018 4:13pm

Since the reboot in 2011 we've gotten 5 good-great X Men movies. First Class, Days of Future Past, Deadpool, Logan and Deadpool 2.

If Disney had the rights since 2011 I can say with near certainty we would not have gotten 5 X-Men movies, let alone 5 good ones. Add to that we wouldn't have seen risky movies like Deadpool and Logan at all.

Foxtrol · 03-10-2018 4:59pm

correction wrote: »

Since the reboot in 2011 we've gotten 5 good-great X Men movies. First Class, Days of Future Past, Deadpool, Logan and Deadpool 2.

If Disney had the rights since 2011 I can say with near certainty we would not have gotten 5 X-Men movies, let alone 5 good ones. Add to that we wouldn't have seen risky movies like Deadpool and Logan at all.

I don’t see what evidence you have that in the last 7 years Marvel wouldn’t have produced 5 movies involving X-universe characters. Prior to the MCU run of movies, the X-men were far more popular than all the characters Marvel had sole rights to, so they definitely would be a key piece of the universe they were building (for better or worse).

From the evidence we do have, Marvel would not have made as many duds as Fox have delivered. Give me the worst MCU movie over several of the duds Fox released. We also have evidence that Marvel can plan and build a much larger universe of movies without the inconsistencies and plot holes that Fox products are littered with, to the point where they even needed repeated soft and hard reboots.

The only point you have is that you wouldnt have the R-rated movies and that just isn't worth it.

correction · 03-10-2018 6:49pm

I personally would take Deadpool and Logan over 10 Doctor Strange/Ant Man level X-Men films. I just don't see Marvel integrating all the characters you have in X-Men into the universe they have without severely watering them down.

I appreciate the world Marvel have built but find a lot of the solo films to be fairly dull so it suits me to have a separate studio focusing solely on the X-Men but I know tonnes of people would prefer to see them join the MCU and I completely understand why. I just worry that if all the superheroes are in a world where there's long been crazy alien stuff happening that they'll eventually stop feeling special.

pixelburp · 03-10-2018 6:55pm

The main narrative stumbling block would be integrating a story of persecution against mutants in a world where "enhanced" people already exist and walk among us. I never bought into the xmen coexisting in the comic and certainly don't think it could be done in the MCU either. Agents of SHIELD kinda did it with the inhumans I suppose. Not without basically resetting the entire universe.

Bacchus · 03-10-2018 7:38pm

pixelburp wrote: »

The main narrative stumbling block would be integrating a story of persecution against mutants in a world where "enhanced" people already exist and walk among us. I never bought into the xmen coexisting in the comic and certainly don't think it could be done in the MCU either. Agents of SHIELD kinda did it with the inhumans I suppose. Not without basically resetting the entire universe.

I think it'd still work. There's not a huge population of enhanced people around as it is (in the movies anyway). I think there's just Hulk, Wanda, Cap, Spiderman, Vision, Winter Soldier and Black Panther. Within that Hulk is generally feared and seen as a threat. As was Winter Soldier. Wanda and Vision were on lock down. We've had Civil War too, that already set the tone that even these few super humans are feared. Aside from them you have those that use tech (Iron Man, Ant Man, Wasp, Falcon, etc.) which isn't the same at all, or you those that are mostly off-world (Thor). Dr. Strange is hidden from the world. You could easily show a world on edge already (particularly after the dusting) viewing the emergence of mutants as the final straw where "mere humans" feel under real threat. Throw in Magnetos agenda (and stop making him BFF with Prof X) and you have a credible motivation for humanity to push back against mutantkind.

brianregan09 · 03-10-2018 10:39pm

Plus Fox have never gotten the X-Men right , not once in any of the films did they wear the proper outfits , they've had Wolverine and Mystique (a bloody villain) lead the team in the films , Jackman although a great Wolverine is way too tall

Deadpool would never even have been made if it wasn't Reynolds pushing and pushing for it to be made and when they got behind the sequel again the quality dropped

Logan although a great film isn't a good logan film , It's miles off the book its based on and they shoe horned X23 into the story aswell trying to copy the Last of Us Template no doubt , and also across all the film's Jackman did not once did he wear the iconic outfits wolverine wears , It was hinted at in a deleted scene in the Wolverine thats the closest we got.

Jennifer Lawerence has used them as a vehicle nothing more hence the butchering of her character across 3 films

So as an X-Men fan in general Fox to me have shown nothing but contempt towards the source materiel , they don't need to be 100% but at least do something right , and the films don't need to be R Rated either blood and guts doesn't equal box office , ask the creators of Dredd

brianregan09 · 03-10-2018 10:40pm

On a sidenote they did cast Professor Xavier and Magneto right twice but subsequently leaned way too heavily on them across the films

Fysh · 03-10-2018 10:53pm

Ah lads, if we're gonna talk contempt for the source material Marvel's last 20 years of comics have plenty of moments as bad as thw worst of the Fox Films. And for all the clamouring about how "Disney will get the x-Men right" look at the horrorshow that has been their attempt to set up the Inhumans as stand-in X-men.

I've said it before - I prefer a diverse stable of studios making diverse types of superhero film without being beholden to a too-often restrictively samey template (IMO) like Marvel does, so to me Marvel getting X-men means probably fewer interesting possible superhero films...

All of which doesn't stop Dark Phoenix sounding like a poor choice of followup to a previous worse-than-it-should've-been X-men film.

brianregan09 · 03-10-2018 11:05pm

I agree to a degree Inhumans was awful and I think that's down to Ike Perlmutter who is over the TV division over there , Inhumans was oringinally in the slate for 2012 I think but him and Feige fell out and Inhumans got dropped and then we got the abombination that was that TV show

and it's a pity because Inhumans would have fit in perfectly with Ragnorock and Guardians in that tone and not looked out of place had it been done with a proper budget and actors and not relegated to Agents of Shield and its own show

On the comics front I wholeheartedly agree with you there Marvel especially in the last few years have destroyed or close to ruined some of the main characters , trying to appeal to the wider audience by changing character's genders (lady thor , ironheart) right down to characters sexuality (iceman) but we could be here all day if we tried to discuss that stuff lol. they are beginning to improve though i'll give you that , there is some great books out at the moment

bnt · 06-10-2018 1:37pm

El Duda wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2018/10/01/dark-phoenix-flaming-sophie-turners-x-men-movie-could-trouble/
...
Oh dear. This is going to be awful.

Though it's interesting to see that Sophie Turner came out of the test screenings looking good, which flies in the face of many comments here and elsewhere suggesting she's "too bland" for the part.

My suspicion is that people are confusing Sophie with Sansa Stark, a character who has been mostly a wet blanket in the Game of Thrones TV series so far. Sansa is actually written that way, a passive character who got used by people for their own ends, but

by the end of the last series she's clearly had enough and (with her sister) is going to put her foot down.

.

The White Wolf · 28-02-2019 7:25am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-q8C_c-nlM

That's a pretty good trailer. The only thing they have left to save this film is to be more aggressive in it's marketing and that's a good start.

Brief_Lives · 28-02-2019 8:21am

Giggidy....

pixelburp · 28-02-2019 10:10am

A better trailer than the last one, but still have very low expectations for this; very little publicity or buzz coupled with that release date slip. Simon Kinberg must have one hell of an agent, or have some stellar dirt to be allowed direct this.

Dades · 28-02-2019 11:54am

Fairly apathetic about this. All very poe-faced and paint-by-numbers.

Also, I've find Sophie Turner annoying as Sansa Stark, and have always had a grá for Famke Janssen. So that's not a good start.

pixelburp · 28-02-2019 12:00pm

I'm also guessing that

they're finally letting Jennifer Lawrence escape the franchise by way of character death; the hints are pretty strong in that trailer - the funeral, Jean crying “why did you make me do that ... she was my friend”, Beast's own tears etc. - so presumably that'll be the narrative manipulation to try & make the audience give a sh*t.

seamus · 28-02-2019 12:11pm

I've had trouble connecting Lawrence and Turner with their characters, always come across too wooden and wilting. Maybe that's just because I'm old and know the first movies well.
It's not like Romijn was ever a particularly great actor, though her Mystique was always more badass than Lawrence's.

I'll watch it anyway, of course I will. There are none of these movies that I would say I didn't enjoy.

Most of the rest of the new cast are great, and I feel in many ways Fassbender is nearly a better Magneto. Or at the very least he portrays a younger version of McKellen's Magneto absolutely perfectly.

correction · 28-02-2019 3:55pm

seamus wrote: »

I've had trouble connecting Lawrence and Turner with their characters, always come across too wooden and wilting. Maybe that's just because I'm old and know the first movies well.
It's not like Romijn was ever a particularly great actor, though her Mystique was always more badass than Lawrence's.

I'll watch it anyway, of course I will. There are none of these movies that I would say I didn't enjoy.

Most of the rest of the new cast are great, and I feel in many ways Fassbender is nearly a better Magneto. Or at the very least he portrays a younger version of McKellen's Magneto absolutely perfectly.

I believe the talk was Lawrence wanted out of the franchise because of the blue make up ordeal. Also think she signed on before she hit it big so probably felt she didn't need it as well. That's likely a large contributer to her not giving much to the role. With Turner it's hard to convinced of her acting in general yet with only really this and Game of Thrones to go on. Thought she was fine at best but with a woeful accent in Apocalypse.

Sad Professor · 28-02-2019 4:18pm

Looks too much like The Last Stand, which makes sense given it was written by the same guy. Not sure what the point of this is.

Agent Coulson · 28-02-2019 4:57pm

So will they give a finale ending this version of the X- Men Universe with this film I wonder.

To give Disney a fresh start for whenever they decide to reboot the whole thing

I have a feeling the other X-Men film out there with the other GOT alum might never see the light of day as that was to be released last April. I did see talk that it just might get a quiet release on Hulu.

The White Wolf · 28-02-2019 5:05pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

So will they give a finale ending this version of the X- Men Universe with this film I wonder.

To give Disney a fresh start for whenever they decide to reboot the whole thing

I have a feeling the other X-Men film out there with the other GOT alum might never see the light of day as that was to be released last April. I did see talk that it just might get a quiet release on Hulu.

Another rumour I read about New Mutants is that they were turning it into more of a horror with only a tenuous link to the comics.

In regards to this film I imagine they're going to end the franchise as they see fit. The Phoenix obliterates the world. :pac:

brianregan09 · 28-02-2019 8:32pm

No desire to see this franchise's dying breath even if it does look like

there going to kill J law's mystique character don't know why anyone is supposed to feel sorry if she dies she's been awful in it , roll on the disney xmen

The White Wolf · 28-02-2019 8:44pm

brianregan09 wrote: »

No desire to see this franchise's dying breath even if it does look like
there going to kill J law's mystique character don't know why anyone is supposed to feel sorry if she dies she's been awful in it , roll on the disney xmen

There seems to be a view online that they are telegraphing what the fans want in Mystique dying but I just can't see them paying service to that never mind not even as a finale of the film. I'm sure she dies but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some time wimey crap to fix it by the end.

Makes you appreciate Marvel Studio's approach even more in that there's no chance that an actor is going to be able to leverage a character other than perhaps the godfather in RDJ.

expectationlost · 28-02-2019 8:52pm

new trailer is she going to blow x 10

but why?

The White Wolf · 28-02-2019 9:10pm

I was just thinking there that I'd personally love it if Chastain's character ended up being

Apocalypse. I mean it's in line with the character to take other guises and it died way too tamely in the last film. The thing that made Apocalypse so great in the source was that he was this impossible adversary that they could only at best keep at bay for a period.

Story wise manipulating the person who defeated him into destroying the world makes sense. Franchise deserves more than being closed off by some alien that doesn't mean a whole lot to the X Men mythos.

kerplun k · 01-03-2019 10:59pm

Wow, This is a tricky one to talk about., kinda shocking that Kinberg has come out and publicly spoilt a major twist here. I won’t go into it because I don’t want to spoil it for anyone, but if the actual director comes out and gives away something major, is this still considered a spoiler?

I don’t think I’ve ever seen this before and It’s actually got me in interested in something that I was rather “meh” on.

pixelburp · 01-03-2019 11:11pm

I'll say what I said in the equivalent thread on the superheroes channel, it's heavily implied in a public domain trailer, the writer director has already spoiled it publicly, and TBH comes as no surprise to anyone familiar with the rebooted franchise.

I say we should be able to talk about it, given as I said it's scarcely a shock to those in the know...

Bacchus · 02-03-2019 8:27pm

I only looked up what this is about to confirm what I thought was already obvious in the trailers... it's not a huge surprise and TBH I find it funny that it is being treated as some sort of bold move by the director that makes this superhero movie like no other. More like you

had a megastar actress no longer interested in her franchise commitments, playing a character that is being made way more important than she should be just because of who the actress is, and it was probably a win-win to cut her free and market it as a daring example of how high the stakes are... for literally only that one character.

kerplun k · 02-03-2019 8:40pm

Bacchus wrote: »

I only looked up what this is about to confirm what I thought was already obvious in the trailers... it's not a huge surprise and TBH I find it funny that it is being treated as some sort of bold move by the director that makes this superhero movie like no other. More like you
had a megastar actress no longer interested in her franchise commitments, playing a character that is being made way more important than she should be just because of who the actress is, and it was probably a win-win to cut her free and market it as a daring example of how high the stakes are... for literally only that one character.

Still, I don’t ever recall something like this being done before. Sure, the reasons why it’s happening are fairly obvious, but to publicly give it away as part of the build up is a bold move.

abcabc123123 · 03-03-2019 12:07am

Having watched the new trailer a few times, I can it's pretty much nailed on that

Jean kills both Mystique AND Quicksilver. Neither of them are anywhere to be seen in any of the scenes that look like they're from later in the movie.

Strong possibility that Chastain's character is a manifestation of the Phoenix Force and is basically inside Jean's head too, I reckon.

pixelburp · 05-03-2019 4:02pm

Another new trailer has popped up; definitely more plot focused, outlining how Jean came upon the powers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx25kdwMQ7E

The White Wolf · 05-03-2019 6:50pm

The more they give us the more I'm worried. Not because the content is bad, it actually looks good. More releasing so much doesn't feel like the move of a confident production.

Slydice · 05-03-2019 8:49pm

That trailer should've been the first. The others were nowhere near as good.

Agent Coulson · 05-03-2019 9:30pm

Sophie Turner's voice does my head in not sure I will be able to handle 2 hours of it moaning and crying.

pixelburp · 05-03-2019 9:35pm

The sooner these post Game of Thrones career bumps flatline out for the obviously lesser talent, the better. Hollywood will not lament the loss of the likes of Sophie Turner, Emilia Clarke or Kitt Harington.

homerun_homer · 06-03-2019 10:16am

This film is going to be so bad. The x-men franchise has been long ruined and I can't wait for Marvel to refresh it and take over in the MCU.

kerplun k · 06-03-2019 11:12am

I get the feeling that this will be the last one of these, I don't see anyone returning here, something which everyone probably only realized halfway through production. I wonder if they used the re-shoots to give the series a proper final. I mean if this is being rebooted due to the merger, they have a nice opportunity to go big here with no consequences, no sequel or universe building. They can pretty much do want they want, kill who they want and end it how they want. Its a shame they didn't end it with something like DOFP or Logan.

correction · 06-03-2019 2:25pm

Not really interested in seeing the Marvel Studios X-Men. We'll never get another film close to Days of Future Past and Logan and that saddens me.

X-Men: Dark Phoenix

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