Our economy being too centered around Dublin.

Rhys Essien · 23-04-2019 12:13am #1

Following on from Pat Spillane’s chat on the LLS that Dublin is 40% of the country’s economic activity, London is 20% and other EU capital cities average around 10%. This can’t be good for the country as a whole going forward.

And tonight on RTE news they were saying that there’s now 123 tower cranes in Dublin while there is only about 15 in the rest of the country.

This is leading to so many problems long term for people living in Dublin including the housing crisis. What can be done to address the problem?

janfebmar · 23-04-2019 12:18am

Its too late.

23-04-2019 12:18am

You're saying one thing, and then another entirely. Neither heads or tails. I'll leave you to your ramblings.

Your Face · 23-04-2019 12:23am

Almost sounds like personal spat.

From the article:

"The minister has also released details of text messages he recently received from Mr Spillane in which he praises Mr Ring and the Government's policy on rural affairs."

vicwatson · 23-04-2019 12:27am

Dublin is at bursting point, ****e public transport system and cannot drive anywhere in comfort

Rhys Essien · 23-04-2019 12:33am

vicwatson wrote: »

Dublin is at bursting point, ****e public transport system and cannot drive anywhere in comfort

If things continue on the current trajectory it’s going to be detrimental for the rest of the country yet no politician is saying anything about it.

Ronin247 · 23-04-2019 12:40am

The public transport or lack thereof, the traffic congestion, crazy house prices, crime, lack of water supply and yet no politician has the balls to say anything.

We are the people who elected these clowns and will reelect most of the same clowns again and should give ourselves a good kick in the hole.

poisonated · 23-04-2019 12:43am

Oh great. Another anti Dublin thread.

Fann Linn · 23-04-2019 12:44am

Leo is from Dublin

janfebmar · 23-04-2019 12:48am

Rhys Essien wrote: »

If things continue on the current trajectory it’s going to be detrimental for the rest of the country yet no politician is saying anything about it.

Most of the rest of the country has been struggling for the past 12 years or so.

Twenty Grand · 23-04-2019 12:51am

Fann Linn wrote: »

Leo is from Dublin

So is one in four people in the country.

punisher5112 · 23-04-2019 12:52am

Boom boom boom.... I want you in my room...

punisher5112 · 23-04-2019 12:53am

Fann Linn wrote: »

Leo is from Dublin

Eh !!!!????

keepalive213 · 23-04-2019 12:56am

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Following on from Pat Spillane’s chat on the LLS that Dublin is 40% of the country’s economic activity, London is 20% and other EU capital cities average around 10%. This can’t be good for the country as a whole going forward.

And tonight on RTE news they were saying that there’s now 123 tower cranes in Dublin while there is only about 15 in the rest of the country.

This is leading to so many problems long term for people living in Dublin including the housing crisis. What can be done to address the problem?

Are you doing a school project on stating the blindingly obvious while inadvertently creating yet another - rest of the country v Dublin debate.
Is that the craic like?

Twenty Grand · 23-04-2019 1:03am

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Following on from Pat Spillane’s chat on the LLS that Dublin is 40% of the country’s economic activity, London is 20% and other EU capital cities average around 10%. This can’t be good for the country as a whole going forward.

Just a point on that.

The UK as 100 cities with populations over 100k.
Germany has 76.
France has about 40.
Ireland has 2.

It's not inconceivable that economic activity is going to be centered around cities. Ireland only really has two cities, Dublin (pop ~1 million) and Cork (pop ~200k).

wonski · 23-04-2019 1:10am

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Just a point on that.

The UK as 100 cities with populations over 100k.
Germany has 76.
France has about 40.
Ireland has 2.

It's not inconceivable that economic activity is going to be centered around cities. Ireland only really has two cities, Dublin (pop ~1 million) and Cork (pop ~200k).

This.

The numbers don't match as while generally capital cities are one of the biggest (if not) there are just more large cities in those countries.

Where do you want to put these cranes?

What are you going to build there?

Captain Havoc · 23-04-2019 1:24am

If people want to join Dublin's rat race, crack on. I'm happy having my simple life down the country. I work two part-time jobs, one is a two-minute walk from my house, the other is fifteen minute walk. I don't earn much but any stress I have is not caused by my location.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater · 23-04-2019 2:20am

Ireland, like many European countries, has a primate city (i.e. one that is multiple times larger than the second city). However, the counterbalance in Ireland doesn't really exist the way it does in larger countries.

For a country of less than 5 million, we have a capital city that can compete with Europe's major urban centres for business and investment, which is impressive in itself. Dublin's success has been capitalised on to a fair degree. Unfortunately it has been realised in a piecemeal fashion with silly zoning and residential policies, combined with lack of proper investment in infrastructure, creating major problems for the people that mean to live and work there.

sk8erboii · 23-04-2019 2:29am

Captain Havoc wrote: »

If people want to join Dublin's rat race, crack on. I'm happy having my simple life down the country. I work two part-time jobs, one is a two-minute walk from my house, the other is fifteen minute walk. I don't earn much but any stress I have is not caused by my location.

Theres an appeal to the slow country life. To most people however, life means much more than picking Gourds off the ground.

endacl · 23-04-2019 3:06am

At the current rate of sprawl, in 50-100 years Ireland will be all Dublin. Tower cranes everywhere. Just rename the whole island the Republic of Suburbia.

piplip87 · 23-04-2019 7:16am

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Following on from Pat Spillane’s chat on the LLS that Dublin is 40% of the country’s economic activity, London is 20% and other EU capital cities average around 10%. This can’t be good for the country as a whole going forward.

And tonight on RTE news they were saying that there’s now 123 tower cranes in Dublin while there is only about 15 in the rest of the country.

This is leading to so many problems long term for people living in Dublin including the housing crisis. What can be done to address the problem?

If a company wants to come and set up in Dublin what is the government ment to do ? Say go to Leitrim or **** off... Then the company will go elsewhere.

I do think we should look at attracting companies to the commuter belt. Like Virginia, Kells for example you can get to the Airport quicker than in many parts of Dublin, good internet speed, plenty of Greenfield sites and fantastic transport links to Dublin. Hundreds travelling from these towns to Dublin every morning so there's talent there.

What will it take is tax deals. Offer companies further tax deals to set up away from Dublin

_Brian · 23-04-2019 7:31am

It annoys me too.

But, do we not have 50% of our population in Dublin to match the 40% of activity.

Would London not have 20% of U.K. population to match its 20% of activity

ParkRunner · 23-04-2019 7:36am

We need something like a BMW regional operational Programme https://www.nwra.ie/competitiveness/bmw-regional-operational-programme-2014-2020/

Shefwedfan · 23-04-2019 7:39am

Dublin is tiny if you compare to most European cities....

The issue is not with Dublin, more with the county council who look after the rest of the country, wasted tax payer money on stupid projects are the order of the day

Go to a small town/city in Ireland and the traffic is awful and when you finally get to the “centre” it looks bloody awful.....

mickuhaha · 23-04-2019 7:43am

Many big companies have attempted to come to the Irish country side to set up and do business yet a lack of planning permission, infrastructure, quick and clear information in place to do business. Even our own Irish business have to jump via hoops to get anything done. it's easier to buy in the city and redevelop.

Mad_maxx · 23-04-2019 8:06am

It should be possible to have a more even distribution, germany has probably the best regional balance, both France and the UK are dominated by one city but we are extreme in terms of Dublin being the only show

New Zealand has the same population as us yet has seven cities with population over 100k, we need to see the other cities here grow and business will follow, this will inevitably lead to further decline in rural areas but that trend is now unstoppable

IAMAMORON · 23-04-2019 8:10am

Did they specify how many cranes were on the northside and how many were on the southside ?

I bet ya anything there are more on the southside, they always get more than the northside. Bastards.

Tell me how · 23-04-2019 8:30am

We have enough evidence to show that companies will locate outside Dublin.
Cork has long been a strong location for pharma companies.
At least 3 of the top producers of replacement hip and knee joints have plants in the south west.
Galway has many med-tech multinationals, Sligo has a few.
Apple in Cork and formerly Dell in Limerick.

I have long felt that we are creating a bigger and bigger problem by allowing to grow dis-proportionally. We are heading for 35% of the population living within 1.3% of the land-space and many of these are living a poorer quality of life due to commuting times and housing prices.

Yes, companies will have a preference where they want to locate but they have only followed the narrative which we have created around Dublin being the only place to be in this country. We have been so busy trying to equate Dublin to London/Paris/New York that we are now caught in this circumstance.

Building a 2nd runway at Dublin while Cork and Shannon are vastly underutilised and people having to drive from beside these airports to get many flights is one thing the government could have but a stop to for the betterment of the wider country.
Every 'National' facility having to be located within eyesight of the spire is another.
The speed at which any discussion which thinks national policy should be in the interest of the wider country is called Dublin-bashing is a sign of how big a mess we are in as now, the number living in and very close by to Dublin is more than it can handle.

mikhail · 23-04-2019 8:35am

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Did they specify how many cranes were on the northside and how many were on the southside ?

I bet ya anything there are more on the southside, they always get more than the northside. Bastards.

It's important to remember what separates us from the animals: the Liffey.

lawred2 · 23-04-2019 8:39am

Ronin247 wrote: »

The public transport or lack thereof, the traffic congestion, crazy house prices, crime, lack of water supply and yet no politician has the balls to say anything.

We are the people who elected these clowns and will reelect most of the same clowns again and should give ourselves a good kick in the hole.

Well whenever a politician attempts to tackle these infrastructure issues in Dublin they get lambasted by a plethora of rural tds about shpendin all de monee above in Dublin

Tell me how · 23-04-2019 8:42am

lawred2 wrote: »

Well whenever a politician attempts to tackle these infrastructure issues in Dublin they get lambasted by a plethora of rural tds about shpendin all de monee above in Dublin

Because the rural TD's would like to see more people in the rural community.
Invest the money in something which will allow people to stay in rural communities and you get two things.

More people contributing to local rural economies,
Less demand on services and housing in Dublin.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 23-04-2019 8:44am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're saying one thing, and then another entirely. Neither heads or tails. I'll leave you to your ramblings.

He’s not. Dublin over crowding comes from it being 40% of the population.

Visiting relatives down the country in Tipp this weekend I saw that a local convenience shop has closed down after 80 or so years. Doesn’t bode well in the middle of a boom. The next bust could take out the country outside Dublin while leaving Dublin ok, or a few years from recovery.

RayCun · 23-04-2019 8:48am

Companies want to set up where the skilled labour force is.

If you are based in Dublin city centre, the number of people within an hour's commute - your pool of potential employees - is enormous.

And because that's where most of the tech/finance/legal jobs are, that's where the workers are.

If you set up in Galway you're going to have trouble attracting the same number and quality of candidate.

Dr. Bre · 23-04-2019 8:50am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Boom boom boom.... I want you in my room...

The venga boys in blue ?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 23-04-2019 8:50am

RayCun wrote: »

Companies want to set up where the skilled labour force is.

If you are based in Dublin city centre, the number of people within an hour's commute - your pool of potential employees - is enormous.

And because that's where most of the tech/finance/legal jobs are, that's where the workers are.

If you set up in Galway you're going to have trouble attracting the same number and quality of candidate.

A lot of the skilled workforce come from abroad and it works for Apple in Cork. Not fully buying that, although it may be true for some industries.

Tell me how · 23-04-2019 8:52am

RayCun wrote: »

Companies want to set up where the skilled labour force is.

If you are based in Dublin city centre, the number of people within an hour's commute - your pool of potential employees - is enormous.

And because that's where most of the tech/finance/legal jobs are, that's where the workers are.

If you set up in Galway you're going to have trouble attracting the same number and quality of candidate.

Maybe, at this point, but we have allowed this to narrative to grow to the point now where it is hard to deny it.

But, why couldn't people from Portlaoise or Mullingar be travelling 90 minutes to the West to work in the morning instead of 90 minutes to the east as they are doing now?

RayCun · 23-04-2019 8:54am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

A lot of the skilled workforce come from abroad and it works for Apple in Cork. Not fully buying that, although it may be true for some industries.

Most of that skilled workforce would rather live in Dublin than in Cork, in the same way that people moving to England would rather go to London than Birmingham.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 23-04-2019 8:55am

poisonated wrote: »

Oh great. Another anti Dublin thread.

Quick there’s a traveller thread further down the page that you can post your brilliantly insightful and intelligent yet witty reply in. :rollseyes:

RayCun · 23-04-2019 8:56am

Tell me how wrote: »

Maybe, at this point, but we have allowed this to narrative to grow to the point now where it is hard to deny it.

But, why couldn't people from Portlaoise or Mullingar be travelling 90 minutes to the West to work in the morning instead of 90 minutes to the east as they are doing now?

The number of people equidistant from both is tiny.

The number of people within 80 minutes of Dublin is much larger than the number 80 minutes from Galway, and the number within 60 minutes of Dublin is much larger than the number 60 minutes from Galway.

(plus those going to Dublin are much more capable of using public transport.)

Mad_maxx · 23-04-2019 8:58am

Tell me how wrote: »

Because the rural TD's would like to see more people in the rural community.
Invest the money in something which will allow people to stay in rural communities and you get two things.

More people contributing to local rural economies,
Less demand on services and housing in Dublin.

Not sure about that, rural people like anyone spending money but have little time for permanent blow ins.

Sure they might not know who your grandfather hurled for

Tell me how · 23-04-2019 8:59am

RayCun wrote: »

Most of that skilled workforce would rather live in Dublin than in Cork, in the same way that people moving to England would rather go to London than Birmingham.

Would they though?
More traffic issues?
More expensive housing?

This is what could be changed, the narrative that Dublin is the preferable (only) place to live. The national strategy should be promoting other areas both verbally and in the development of local resources to entice people to build communities.

PMBC · 23-04-2019 9:03am

RayCun wrote: »

The number of people equidistant from both is tiny.

The number of people within 80 minutes of Dublin is much larger than the number 80 minutes from Galway, and the number within 60 minutes of Dublin is much larger than the number 60 minutes from Galway.

(plus those going to Dublin are much more capable of using public transport.)

But thats because the growth is, and always has been concentrated in Dublin.

Del2005 · 23-04-2019 9:03am

Look at the USA where all the tech companies are setting up in California and ignoring the rust belt. Companies are choosing between Dublin, London, Paris, San Francisco etc not Muff or Dingle.

In every other country in the world they are urbanising and in the bigger scheme Dublin is still too small and needs more people and companies so that Ireland can compete with other countries. But no people think that we should be distributing industry around the country, which we did years ago with massive IDA grants and nearly every company left, when we should be pushing for more industry in Dublin. The problem with Dublin is combeen politicians who would rather waste hundreds of millions on a useless train line linking 2 cities that is slower than the new motorway than invest in proper public transport for Dublin. If we had Dart underground, planed for at least 30 years, and metro, 20 odd years of planning, then Dublin would have a working public transport system, but no we have trains that are only used by the free travel pass holders and everyone else driving.

lawred2 · 23-04-2019 9:05am

Tell me how wrote: »

Because the rural TD's would like to see more people in the rural community.
Invest the money in something which will allow people to stay in rural communities and you get two things.

More people contributing to local rural economies,
Less demand on services and housing in Dublin.

Invest in what?

RayCun · 23-04-2019 9:05am

Tell me how wrote: »

Would they though?
More traffic issues?
More expensive housing?

Yeah, both true of Manchester and Birmingham compared to London, but still people prefer to go to London.

After a while living in a country, and visiting different places, some might decide they'd rather live in a different city. But not at first.

Tell me how wrote: »

This is what could be changed, the narrative that Dublin is the preferable (only) place to live. The national strategy should be promoting other areas both verbally and in the development of local resources to entice people to build communities.

But the structural issues remain. Dublin has the population density to make it attractive. You can tell people how lovely Athenry is until your face turns blue - people will go where the jobs are, and the jobs will go where the people are.

PMBC · 23-04-2019 9:06am

Tell me how wrote: »

Would they though?
More traffic issues?
More expensive housing?

This is what could be changed, the narrative that Dublin is the preferable (only) place to live. The national strategy should be promoting other areas both verbally and in the development of local resources to entice people to build communities.

That was the National Spatial Strategy. Until Parlon and McCreevy got in on the act. And now one of them is spokesman for (part of) the Construction industry i.e. the CIF

Pawwed Rig · 23-04-2019 9:06am

A Midlands city was once touted to incorporate Mullingar, Tullamore and Athlone. I haven't heard it mentioned since the crash but would seem like a good idea. Benefits would be a huge amount of space meaning cheap housing etc. Also since the sea is not an issue there would be more scope for circular development.

RayCun · 23-04-2019 9:12am

Del2005 wrote: »

Look at the USA where all the tech companies are setting up in California and ignoring the rust belt.

If you look at the companies that created the rust belt (or industrialization in the north of England), it was factories that took in unskilled labour and trained them on the job.

Ireland isn't well-positioned to attract factories. We don't have lots of raw materials and we aren't a large market, so everything would have to be shipped in and shipped out again. Easier to attract knowledge companies, but they want skilled workers, which means they aren't going to set up in Portlaoise.

Tell me how · 23-04-2019 9:16am

Del2005 wrote: »

Look at the USA where all the tech companies are setting up in California and ignoring the rust belt. Companies are choosing between Dublin, London, Paris, San Francisco etc not Muff or Dingle.

In every other country in the world they are urbanising and in the bigger scheme Dublin is still too small and needs more people and companies so that Ireland can compete with other countries. But no people think that we should be distributing industry around the country, which we did years ago with massive IDA grants and nearly every company left, when we should be pushing for more industry in Dublin. The problem with Dublin is combeen politicians who would rather waste hundreds of millions on a useless train line linking 2 cities that is slower than the new motorway than invest in proper public transport for Dublin. If we had Dart underground, planed for at least 30 years, and metro, 20 odd years of planning, then Dublin would have a working public transport system, but no we have trains that are only used by the free travel pass holders and everyone else driving.

We need to get over ourselves if we think that Dublin is ever going to be on a par with the worlds biggest cities. We can 'say' it is (as we have been doing) but that doesn't make it so.

None of those countries have such a proportion of their countries population living within such a small proportion of their countries area.

We are talking about how Limerick, Cork and Galway should at this point have 500K more working in their confines at this point and Dublin 500K less.

And yes, there would be housing and traffic concerns if this was to happen overnight but it should have been targeted over the last 20 years with infrastructure to facilitate it.

Dublin has the DART, two LUAS lines, the most extensive public bus network in the country.
No other city has in any way capable public transport and we are talking about metro for Dublin and nothing for the rest.

(Also, the word is gombeen, not combeen, they are in Dublin as well, see Shane Ross hockey grants and Garda station interests for reference)

PMBC · 23-04-2019 9:17am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

A Midlands city was once touted to incorporate Mullingar, Tullamore and Athlone. I haven't heard it mentioned since the crash but would seem like a good idea. Benefits would be a huge amount of space meaning cheap housing etc. Also since the sea is not an issue there would be more scope for circular development.

Yes, that was the 'polycentric model' with Athlone as the main centre. I live in nad intend to stay in Dublin as Im fairly well insulated from the traffic and other problems but I think there is considerable merit in this idea. I cant see politicians accepting it, though. Imagine Cork and Galway anger not to mention Limerick and Waterford. Then there is Sligo and .....Recently a former high level civil servant has been promoting Limerick as THE alternative and there is a lot of merit in that. Wherever it is to be would need a high speed rail link to Dublin.

Wanderer78 · 23-04-2019 9:17am

Its just the market equalising, relax, everything is fine

Our economy being too centered around Dublin.

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