Police shootings, vigilante shootings, and Black Lives Matter

briany · 31-08-2020 6:38pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Try telling an Italian American that they're somehow responsible for addressing Mafia crime or an Irish person in Britain that they had a responsibility to combat the IRA.

Why couldn't those Catholic Nationalists just have protested peacefully in the wake of Bloody Sunday, eh?

everlast75 · 31-08-2020 6:38pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You're only seeing a snapshot of all interactions though, with a deliberate aim to strengthen the narrative that police are overly violent towards black people. There's ~10 million police interactions per annum iirc, with ~1000 shootings. The vast majority of those are justified, good shoots. You see one questionable event and a city burns. Meanwhile 20 people get shot over a weekend in certain cities, and nothing.

Which "questionable" event are you talking about? Floyd? Because that sure as **** wasn't questionable. That was murder IMHO.

The only time "a city burned" was Rodney King. And again, that wasn't "questionable".

Violence has escalated, but Trump has done that. He doesn't even dog whistle anymore. It's an air raid siren at this stage.

To be fair, you are making decisions from here without walking a mile in the shoes of a black person in certain states where lynching was legal up to relatively recently. There is far too much for this to be so readily dismissed.

Tell me how · 31-08-2020 6:47pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You're only seeing a snapshot of all interactions though, with a deliberate aim to strengthen the narrative that police are overly violent towards black people. There's ~10 million police interactions per annum iirc, with ~1000 shootings. The vast majority of those are justified, good shoots. You see one questionable event and a city burns. Meanwhile 20 people get shot over a weekend in certain cities, and nothing.

Most significant events are so because there is video evidence.
There are probably many more events and certainly more in the past in which there was no evidence available.
And for ones that escalate to the point of shots fired and/or someone dying, there are probably many more which do not have the same outcome, but the same unacceptable behaviour.

Also, if a single person died (as has happened in Ireland) due to unacceptable behaviour by an official body or organisation, it would and does receive huge attention irrespective of the number of incidents which that body was involved in where the behaviour and outcome was what is expected.

The repeal of the 8th amendment was argued for largely as a response to one such incident.
In such cases, where the intent and behaviour is appropriate, but the outcome still tragic, it is accepted that unfortunately such things happen but if the behaviour is not ideal, in a functioning society, there is movement to correct it.

This is what people who are going on BLM protests want to see happen.

Retr0gamer · 31-08-2020 6:53pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You're only seeing a snapshot of all interactions though, with a deliberate aim to strengthen the narrative that police are overly violent towards black people. There's ~10 million police interactions per annum iirc, with ~1000 shootings. The vast majority of those are justified, good shoots. You see one questionable event and a city burns. Meanwhile 20 people get shot over a weekend in certain cities, and nothing.

Well maybe the police are too busy harassing and shooting minorities to be dealing with the actual criminals you are referring to.

Carfacemandog · 31-08-2020 7:01pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Most significant events are so because there is video evidence.
There are probably many more events and certainly more in the past in which there was no evidence available.

That is actually specifically why the Rodney King riots started in 1992 - camcorders were relatively rare, especially in poorer areas, and when his absolute beating at the hands of police was caught on camera it resonated with a lot of people who had been dealt similar but good as never had their word taken over the cops who would just deny it, even in the event of witnesses saying similar.

When the cops who beat the sh*te out of King got acquitted despite the video evidence, it resonated even more and all hell broke loose.

Of course, they had more competent leadership then in Bush Snr so the riots died down after a few days of bedlam. Unfortunately in 2020, that couldn't be further from the case as I believe Friday or Saturday will mark the 100th straight day of protests and riots in the US with no real signs of deescalation.

FrostyJack · 31-08-2020 7:04pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Which "questionable" event are you talking about? Floyd? Because that sure as **** wasn't questionable. That was murder IMHO.

The only time "a city burned" was Rodney King. And again, that wasn't "questionable".

Violence has escalated, but Trump has done that. He doesn't even dog whistle anymore. It's an air raid siren at this stage.

To be fair, you are making decisions from here without walking a mile in the shoes of a black person in certain states where lynching was legal up to relatively recently. There is far too much for this to be so readily dismissed.

I generally agree with you and you are not totally wrong, there is systemic racism blatantly in the US, Trump is 100% trying to stoke it for his benefit, he doesn't even pretend to be the President of anyone but his base. Having lived over there and traveled around with people of colour, I seen first hand how there is a 2 tier system. I could basically go anywhere with impunity, they could be stopped and searched at any time for no reason other than they were not white. This is middle class people not any stereotype. At the same time we have to take the police shootings case by case. I know people over there that think the George Flyod murder was at worst an accident, especially after the 2nd video was released. They are totally wrong, he was in police custody so they had duty of care, so it is stone wall at least manslaughter. The case where the guy stole the tazer and was running away was, at least manslaughter, he was in no danger when he shot the guy. The case in Vegas where the cop made the guy have a game of simon says and shot him is 100% murder. Not every police shooting is like that, to lump them all into one devalues them and it just becomes a narrative.

everlast75 · 31-08-2020 11:35pm

Anyone going to come on here and defend this?

https://twitter.com/PodSaveAmerica/status/1300557665806868480?s=19

Biden has denounced violence. Biden has denounced looting.

Trump is defending murder.

Can anyone not see how this makes matters infinitely worse? How it incites violence against BLM protesters?

AbusesToilets · 01-09-2020 12:01am

everlast75 wrote: »

Anyone going to come on here and defend this?

https://twitter.com/PodSaveAmerica/status/1300557665806868480?s=19

Biden has denounced violence. Biden has denounced looting.

Trump is defending murder.

Can anyone not see how this makes matters infinitely worse? How it incites violence against BLM protesters?

It wasn't murder.

01-09-2020 12:11am

everlast75 wrote: »

Anyone going to come on here and defend this?

https://twitter.com/PodSaveAmerica/status/1300557665806868480?s=19

Biden has denounced violence. Biden has denounced looting.

Trump is defending murder.

Can anyone not see how this makes matters infinitely worse? How it incites violence against BLM protesters?

Is the court case over?

Startled Earwig · 01-09-2020 12:44am

At this stage it seems like it's only a matter of time before Trump is eulogising Jeffrey Dahmer.

He's firmly on the side of the white supremacist terrorists. He has been since the start.

sandbelter · 01-09-2020 5:24am

Latest turn in Chicago is gangs have apparently formed an alliance to ambush and kill police officers.

Obviously they are "the law" on their turf now.

The "situational information report" from FBI officials in Chicago dated August 26, 2020, states "members of these gang factions have been actively searching for, and filming, police officers in performance of their official duties. The purpose of which is to catch on film an officer drawing his/her weapon on any subject and the subsequent 'shoot on-site' of said officer, in order to garner national media attention."

Source: https://abc7chicago.com/fbi-chicago-warns-that-gang-cabal-may-be-targeting-police-officers-/6397730/?fbclid=IwAR3nVIqd7CMzWpEhIhQiWiZzn5FBTLqFvSvhRxnZUjyN5HzD_e1K0FMyvfU

everlast75 · 01-09-2020 6:26am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It wasn't murder.

Oh, I'm sorry. Are we now disallowed to make decisions before Court cases are over? Because wasn't that what you were doing?

The lad was driven a couple of states over armed to the teeth to "counter protesters." Wtf was he doing there with an assault rifle? He wasn't defending his property. Sounds very premeditated to me. Let's see how his court case goes.

Would you argue if I substituted "murderer" with "armed gangs picking a fight with people, inflaming a situation and who end up killing people". Would that make Trump's actions any better?

Besides, I've argued with enough Trump supporters to know that they are argue to the facts first and once they are proven wrong disagree with the facts regardless.

brentanrodgers · 01-09-2020 6:43am

everlast75 wrote: »

There seems to be an awful lot of video footage of cops shooting black people, or using excessive physical force and lots of examples of white people doing a lot more and not being met by such violent reactions.

This is just silly, there's plenty of videos of unarmed whites being killed and blacks being treated diligently. Should I post one video of a black man being treated well and ten of white men being shot to make a point? You are being played by emotionally charged twitter drivel.

What you should be looking at is FBI statistics and such to try and make a point - of course actual statistics may not favour your viewpoint.

FrostyJack · 01-09-2020 7:59am

everlast75 wrote: »

The lad was driven a couple of states over armed to the teeth to "counter protesters." Wtf was he doing there with an assault rifle? He wasn't defending his property. Sounds very premeditated to me. Let's see how his court case goes.

Again with the hyperbole, he wasn't armed to teeth, he had 1 rifle, yes it is far better weapon than a skate board or a fist but he wasn't draped like Arnie in commando. The only thing draped on him was ironically a first aid kit. For all his sins, I don't think he went there to shoot people, but was more then willing when it came down to it. There are videos of him punching a girl and reports he went to apply for the Marines but was rejected, take from that what you will. The statement that his defense team released says nothing about molotov so it looks like he panicked and shot the first guy so would be 3rd degree or manslaughter. He should not have been there, he should not have had the weapon and most likely not have shot anyone but there is no need to put things on him that didn't happen. Same with George Floyd's killer, it wasn't premeditated, he didn't wake up that morning and say he was going to kill him and I am pretty sure knowing there were people watching and recording him he didn't intend for him to die, in saying that, his actions, or lack there of resulted in the death so he is definitely a killer, just not in the 1st degree.

01-09-2020 8:08am

FrostyJack wrote: »

Again with the hyperbole, he wasn't armed to teeth, he had 1 rifle, yes it is far better weapon than a skate board or a fist but he wasn't draped like Arnie in commando. The only thing draped on him was ironically a first aid kit. For all his sins, I don't think he went there to shoot people, but was more then willing when it came down to it. There are videos of him punching a girl and reports he went to apply for the Marines but was rejected, take from that what you will. The statement that his defense team released says nothing about molotov so it looks like he panicked and shot the first guy so would be 3rd degree or manslaughter. He should not have been there, he should not have had the weapon and most likely not have shot anyone but there is no need to put things on him that didn't happen. Same with George Floyd's killer, it wasn't premeditated, he didn't wake up that morning and say he was going to kill him and I am pretty sure knowing there were people watching and recording him he didn't intend for him to die, in saying that, his actions, or lack there of resulted in the death so he is definitely a killer, just not in the 1st degree.

He boasted shortly before that he would use lethal force..

FrostyJack · 01-09-2020 8:11am

Deleted User wrote: »

He boasted shortly before that he would use lethal force..

To shoot people randomly or defend himself? Cannot believe I have to defend this head case.

everlast75 · 01-09-2020 8:13am

FrostyJack wrote: »

To shoot people randomly or defend himself? Cannot believe I have to defend this head case.

Defend himself???

Wtf was he doing there?

01-09-2020 8:13am

FrostyJack wrote: »

To shoot people randomly or defend himself? Cannot believe I have to defend this head case.

He was boasting that it would be his first resort... That's pretty indicative of his state of mind.

FrostyJack · 01-09-2020 8:40am

everlast75 wrote: »

Defend himself???

Wtf was he doing there?

He says he was there to defend property and to provide first aid to locals. He should not have been there, he should not have been armed and is totally delusional, definite school shooter in the making, he and his mother should be in jail for this reason, he didn't fly in on a gunship shouting "shoot the commies" and fire randomly into a crowd as being portrayed here and on liberal media. He came into conflict with protesters but we don't know the circumstances of that. If you had a gun and a group people charged you or thought they would take your weapon, would you shoot? If they were just shouting at him or intimating him or damaging property he didn't own, then it is straight up murder. We don't know the total picture the video is very inconclusive.

brentanrodgers · 01-09-2020 8:54am

I think it's idiotic for anyone to show up during these riots for any reason, especially with a weapon. Here is what his lawyer is claiming, its a fairly lengthy run down of events from the defendents POV without interruption, make up your own mind.

Water John · 01-09-2020 10:18am

The policeman on George Floyd's neck had 8 minutes and 46 seconds to think about it.

StringerBell · 01-09-2020 10:20am

Water John wrote: »

The policeman on George Floyd's neck had 8 minutes and 46 seconds to think about it.

I think that one is pretty much universally accepted, I mean when you even have Donald Trump calling it a disgrace you know that's completely beyond the level of indefensible that they try to defend.

Tell me how · 01-09-2020 10:21am

FrostyJack wrote: »

To shoot people randomly or defend himself? Cannot believe I have to defend this head case.

This child should have been at home playing call of duty instead of inserting himself in to a dangerous situation.

If his focus was on defending himself, that's the option he should have taken.

Water John · 01-09-2020 10:22am

Tell me how wrote: »

This child should have been at home playing call of duty instead of inserting himself in to a dangerous situation.

If his focus was on defending himself, that's the option he should have taken.

Let's say the guy was a bit immature. The problem is the rhetoric of Trump and his ilk give him the licence.

Tell me how · 01-09-2020 10:40am

Water John wrote: »

Let's say the guy was a bit immature. The problem is the rhetoric of Trump and his ilk give him the licence.

Absolutely. In the last few days, Trump tweeted wishing that the victim shot by a BLM protester would Rest in Peace, and refused to condemn the actions of the vigilante which killed two BLM protestors but instead suggested it was self defense.

History will focus on key bullet points of Trumps Presidency and will likely lead people to wonder 'How stupid were people to let this guy get away with this'.

GreeBo · 01-09-2020 10:43am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Well given the fact he was up on a warrant for sexual assault, with previous incidents of fighting police, combined with the fact that the police were called because he had broken in to a woman's house, digitally penetrated her and stole her car, I'd say it's a reasonable assumption to make that he posed a danger. Couple that to him fighting police again prior to getting shot.

Remind me how any of the above is a threat to anyones life?

GreeBo · 01-09-2020 10:44am

FrostyJack wrote: »

How much "potential" could it take for someone to pick up a gun and turn and shoot? 1 second, 5 seconds, a minute? In the US there is always potential. I am not saying that if Jacob was white he would have been given the benefit of the doubt, but to say he couldn't have done nothing or there was no danger is laughable. I am sure you can scroll through liveleak enough and see dash cam footage of cops being shot or do some decent firearms training you would know there is next to no time to react. It is like people saying that they would just block a pro fighters punch. Walter Mitty stuff. The problems started before the video, the cops let it get out of control and Jacob was clearly not of sound mind, a recipe for disaster. Did he deserve to be shot, no probably not, but we are looking at hindsight arm chair quarterbacking. Unfortunately the cops don't wear body cams so that would have given a better insight to what happened.

Ergo, cops should put a bullet in everyone first, just in case?

listermint · 01-09-2020 10:49am

Tell me how wrote: »

This child should have been at home playing call of duty instead of inserting himself in to a dangerous situation.

If his focus was on defending himself, that's the option he should have taken.

The games over 18s hes not allowed play it.

Begs the question how hes not allowed play the video game but has an AR15.

Mad all things considered..........

Tell me how · 01-09-2020 10:54am

listermint wrote: »

The games over 18s hes not allowed play it.

Begs the question how hes not allowed play the video game but has an AR15.

Mad all things considered..........

Jesus, when you put it like that....

Couldn't have a drink for 4 more years either but can walk the street with an assault rifle in the middle of a protest.

GreeBo · 01-09-2020 10:57am

brentanrodgers wrote: »

I think it's idiotic for anyone to show up during these riots for any reason, especially with a weapon. Here is what his lawyer is claiming, its a fairly lengthy run down of events from the defendents POV without interruption, make up your own mind.

"oh, why did I bring the petrol can to the fire? to protect myself in case any fire decided to attack me"

This is why the gun laws are idiotic over there. Guns escalate situations like this.

Chips Lovell · 01-09-2020 11:02am

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everlast75 · 01-09-2020 11:04am

There seems little point in arguing with some folk on here regarding the protests when they believe that black people don't have a reason to protest in the first place.

If they don't believe that, then of course you're not going to convince them that anything that happens when protesting is acceptable.

Podge_irl · 01-09-2020 11:18am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You're only seeing a snapshot of all interactions though, with a deliberate aim to strengthen the narrative that police are overly violent towards black people. There's ~10 million police interactions per annum iirc, with ~1000 shootings. The vast majority of those are justified, good shoots. You see one questionable event and a city burns. Meanwhile 20 people get shot over a weekend in certain cities, and nothing.

I don't know how anyone can honestly make that claim. The vast majority of questionable to outright criminal incidents that were caught on camera would have been viewed as completely legitimate going on the police accounts. Without video evidence those would have been taken as the truth. The police lie - it is consistent and widespread and they get away with it.

FrostyJack · 01-09-2020 11:37am

Tell me how wrote: »

This child should have been at home playing call of duty instead of inserting himself in to a dangerous situation.

If his focus was on defending himself, that's the option he should have taken.

I am not arguing that, I said he shouldn't be there, and he clearly has issues, Trump having clowns like McCloskey's at the convention and now after the incident praising Kyle incite people like him to go put themselves in that position. This is why troops shouldn't be on the streets as incidents like this happen. That said it is the initial shooting that we are not exactly clear about and the hyperbole in the media afterwards. Any incident now in America has to have 2 sides, if this was a Biden supporter at a MAGA rally, everyone on the left would be saying this was incited by the MAGA racists and he was just defending himself, this is what I am highlighting. Sometimes you can be anti-Trump and see things nuanced, otherwise you are as bad as them.

Tell me how · 01-09-2020 11:44am

FrostyJack wrote: »

I am not arguing that, I said he shouldn't be there, and he clearly has issues, Trump having clowns like McCloskey's at the convention and now after the incident praising Kyle incite people like him to go put themselves in that position. This is why troops shouldn't be on the streets as incidents like this happen. That said it is the initial shooting that we are not exactly clear about and the hyperbole in the media afterwards. Any incident now in America has to have 2 sides, if this was a Biden supporter at a MAGA rally, everyone on the left would be saying this was incited by the MAGA racists and he was just defending himself, this is what I am highlighting. Sometimes you can be anti-Trump and see things nuanced, otherwise you are as bad as them.

I don't know, on a thread covering the BLM on a........ less restricted forum, a few posters, myself included, have said consistently that protesters who riot or commit acts of vandalism should be prosecuted but we are constantly told that we support it.

I think in some cases, not necessarily you, people move too quickly to saying 'they are all at it' and that prevents people stepping back to analyse if indeed this is the case and in many situations is exploited by people knowing they can do something and pass it off as 'both sides are at it'.

FrostyJack · 01-09-2020 12:50pm

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't know, on a thread covering the BLM on a........ less restricted forum, a few posters, myself included, have said consistently that protesters who riot or commit acts of vandalism should be prosecuted but we are constantly told that we support it.

I think in some cases, not necessarily you, people move too quickly to saying 'they are all at it' and that prevents people stepping back to analyse if indeed this is the case and in many situations is exploited by people knowing they can do something and pass it off as 'both sides are at it'.

Exactly, take the Covington kid, another guy rolled out at the RNC, everyone jumped at him and later on had egg on their face. You have to sit back and look objectively. I support the protests, but not the looting and property damage, though I do understand people doing that. The way I look at it is every car or building burnt is another vote for Trump. It is happening on his watch but he pawns it off the Democratic mayor or governor, so people that are likely to vote for him think " I don't want it to happen in my town". None of the reforms the protesters want will ever happen while Trump is in power so it is catch 22.

AbusesToilets · 01-09-2020 3:40pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't know how anyone can honestly make that claim. The vast majority of questionable to outright criminal incidents that were caught on camera would have been viewed as completely legitimate going on the police accounts. Without video evidence those would have been taken as the truth. The police lie - it is consistent and widespread and they get away with it.

You find them questionable, others do not. In those cases, the best course of action is to allow the courts to judge. There are many on this board and in the BLM would seem to feel it's never justified for an officer to shoot a black person. I doubt the police lie at any greater rate than the criminals they interact with.

Retr0gamer · 01-09-2020 3:51pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You find them questionable, others do not. In those cases, the best course of action is to allow the courts to judge. There are many on this board and in the BLM would seem to feel it's never justified for an officer to shoot a black person. I doubt the police lie at any greater rate than the criminals they interact with.

They should lie though. Especially when it comes to taking someone's life. And just because the criminal's they deal with lie doesn't justify police lying or breaking the law.

You are justifying vigilantism and police brutality, both of which are not a good thing and both of which people are protesting about.

Truthvader · 01-09-2020 4:00pm

Biden is going to lose the election unless he puts his head up and tries to stop all the looting and rioting. Whatever way you cut it Trump supporters are not out burning looting and shooting. This is playing into Trumps hands as anyone just a teeny weeny bit rascist will vote Trump just to "protest" the protesters. If Biden could get the riots to stop he would romp home.

On the shootings; the only one I saw showed a guy trying to smash another over the head with a skateboard getting shot. Seems to me he deserved it. You dont attack other people plus you get a bonus Darwin award if you attack a man with a gun with a skateboard

brentanrodgers · 01-09-2020 4:07pm

Truthvader wrote: »

On the shootings; the only one I saw showed a guy trying to smash another over the head with a skateboard getting shot. Seems to me he deserved it. You dont attack other people plus you get a bonus Darwin award if you attack a man with a gun with a skateboard

That shooting you're referring to I do have problems with, I don't think it's murder but do I think there's some level of intent there looking for confrontation when showing up to one of these riots armed.

The other recent murder that I know of, an unarmed Trump supporter was shot point blank twice in the chest assassination style, they've found the culprit in that case and hopefully swift justice is issued. The footage online of that incident is conclusive imo - although I won't link it here.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/police-investigating-antifa-supporter-michael-reinoehl-in-portland-shooting-11598904528

Police Investigating Antifa Supporter Michael Reinoehl in Portland Shooting

A family member said she identified a man police told her they are investigating in the Saturday killing of a right-wing protester in Portland, Ore., as Michael Reinoehl, a 48-year-old former professional snowboarder who calls himself a member of Antifa on social media.

FrostyJack · 01-09-2020 4:26pm

brentanrodgers wrote: »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/police-investigating-antifa-supporter-michael-reinoehl-in-portland-shooting-11598904528

Police Investigating Antifa Supporter Michael Reinoehl in Portland Shooting

I like how the cops clear the medics working on him, they must have thought he was on the "left" side. Wonder if that contributed to his death.

brentanrodgers · 01-09-2020 4:34pm

FrostyJack wrote: »

I like how the cops clear the medics working on him, they must have thought he was on the "left" side. Wonder if that contributed to his death.

If you're talking about the video in the WSJ link, those aren't real medics, they're tropes who're part of the antifa crowd - I suppose they want to believe they're part of an offical militant movement or something, god only knows.

AbusesToilets · 01-09-2020 4:35pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

They should lie though. Especially when it comes to taking someone's life. And just because the criminal's they deal with lie doesn't justify police lying or breaking the law.

You are justifying vigilantism and police brutality, both of which are not a good thing and both of which people are protesting about.

Where am I justifying vigilantism and brutality, exactly? Saying that police can be justified in shooting someone?

Retr0gamer · 01-09-2020 4:47pm

Truthvader wrote: »

Biden is going to lose the election unless he puts his head up and tries to stop all the looting and rioting.

News flash: Trump is the President, not Biden. The loot and rioting is all Trumps fault. He has done nothing to calm the situation and has in fact managed to make things worse.

All Biden can do is condemn the looting and violence which he has done consistently. Trump on the other hand is promoting vigilantism.

Retr0gamer · 01-09-2020 4:48pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Where am I justifying vigilantism and brutality, exactly? Saying that police can be justified in shooting someone?

I haven't gotten the energy or time to quite pretty much everything you've posted in this tread.

Let's just start with supporting shoot first and ask questions later policing.

Sonics2k · 01-09-2020 4:53pm

Truthvader wrote: »

Biden is going to lose the election unless he puts his head up and tries to stop all the looting and rioting. Whatever way you cut it Trump supporters are not out burning looting and shooting. This is playing into Trumps hands as anyone just a teeny weeny bit rascist will vote Trump just to "protest" the protesters. If Biden could get the riots to stop he would romp home.

Pray tell, how exactly is Biden supposed to stop all the looting and rioting? Biden isn't the President, he's not in charge at all. Trump is running the show and has the power.

brentanrodgers · 01-09-2020 4:55pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

News flash: Trump is the President, not Biden. The loot and rioting is all Trumps fault. He has done nothing to calm the situation and has in fact managed to make things worse.

All Biden can do is condemn the looting and violence which he has done consistently. Trump on the other hand is promoting vigilantism.

No it's not, this uptake in political violence was going on well before Trump got into office. Trump hasn't helped things but he's not solely to blame.

Do you support BLM? One of their Chicago leaders called looting and destroying businesses "Reparations". Are you OK with that?

Obama's administration internally classified groups like antifa as domestic terrorists. I guess you can make a distinction between both groups but at this point the lines, at least for me, are really blurred.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235

"Federal authorities have been warning state and local officials since early 2016 that leftist extremists known as “antifa” had become increasingly confrontational and dangerous, so much so that the Department of Homeland Security formally classified their activities as “domestic terrorist violence,” according to interviews and confidential law enforcement documents obtained by POLITICO.

Previously unreported documents disclose that by April 2016, authorities believed that “anarchist extremists” were the primary instigators of violence at public rallies against a range of targets. They were blamed by authorities for attacks on the police, government and political institutions, along with symbols of “the capitalist system,” racism, social injustice and fascism, according to a confidential 2016 joint intelligence assessment by DHS and the FBI."

FrostyJack · 01-09-2020 5:05pm

brentanrodgers wrote: »

If you're talking about the video in the WSJ link, those aren't real medics, they're tropes who're part of the antifa crowd - I suppose they want to believe they're part of an offical militant movement or something, god only knows.

There are number of EMT's , RN's and Paramedics at all these protests, they could be on either side of protest or just passers by, they were clearly trying to do at least first aid when they cops turned up and kicked all their gear out of the way.

AbusesToilets · 01-09-2020 5:07pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I haven't gotten the energy or time to quite pretty much everything you've posted in this tread.

Let's just start with supporting shoot first and ask questions later policing.

Please, demonstrate where I've advocated for that.

brentanrodgers · 01-09-2020 5:12pm

FrostyJack wrote: »

There are number of EMT's , RN's and Paramedics at all these protests, they could be on either side of protest or just passers by, they were clearly trying to do at least first aid when they cops turned up and kicked all their gear out of the way.

The person was wearing black bloc gear and part of that group. It's possible they were a professional but I doubt it, a friend of the deceased wouldn't have pulled her away off him if it was the case, nor would the police. You can see it pretty clearly here at 1.15 in the video.

https://twitter.com/ShepardAmbellas/status/1300244859681304577

Police shootings, vigilante shootings, and Black Lives Matter

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