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Managing very poor performance

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  • 25-06-2020 10:31pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    I'm in a management role about 18 months now and have an employee whose performance is beyond poor - not just a bit of a slacker or needing a firm nudge to get things done, but maybe hitting 20% of targets at best, and using excuses and blaming others to escape accountability. On top of all that there is extreme passive aggression and arrogance to the point that she thinks nobody can question her ability or skills.

    I'm torn how to deal with this - I have tried playing the "i'm on your side, but we need to resolve this and find ways for you to hit your targets" nicely nicely approach, but no progress, if anything it's getting worse over time. I fear clamping down hard will just play into her hands though as this is somebody who seems to love the battle and conflict. I am honestly scratching my head trying to move this forward.

    Any tips on nipping it in the bud and improving things?


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    #2
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,722 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Get advice from your manager and HR department. It may be that she really is untouchable due to political factors beyond your control.


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    #3
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,520 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    helpmeimnotadoctor wrote: »
    I'm in a management role about 18 months now and have an employee whose performance is beyond poor - not just a bit of a slacker or needing a firm nudge to get things done, but maybe hitting 20% of targets at best, and using excuses and blaming others to escape accountability. On top of all that there is extreme passive aggression and arrogance to the point that she thinks nobody can question her ability or skills.

    I'm torn how to deal with this - I have tried playing the "i'm on your side, but we need to resolve this and find ways for you to hit your targets" nicely nicely approach, but no progress, if anything it's getting worse over time. I fear clamping down hard will just play into her hands though as this is somebody who seems to love the battle and conflict. I am honestly scratching my head trying to move this forward.

    Any tips on nipping it in the bud and improving things?

    As the other poster said, talk to your company HR for advice. If that is not an option, talk to your line manager.
    Does the company have an employee handbook which this employee was given when they started working there? If it exists, it should outline the procedure for dealing with employee performance.

    What you can do while investigating the above. Start to create a chronological record of the employee performance shortcomings and when you spoke to them or communicated to them in relation to this.

    It is probably best to assume that any words you have had in relation to this matter so far are informal but that once you know the procedure, the conversations will become formal. The employee must know that this is the case.
    Make sure that any information you are using to support your opinions is freely available to you in your role and is not second hand from anyone else.
    This chronological record might not make any difference in terms of going forward and might not be used to initiate any action against the employee, but will be good for you to collect your thoughts and to remain consistent and professional if previous conversations are referenced.

    You are right to be aware of the passive aggressive potential and arrogance as those traits have the potential to create ongoing issues even if productivity is corrected.
    You might want to consider actively seeking to remove this person from under your responsibility for these reasons but if so, it needs to be done fairly and in line with company protocols. Thread softly, but firmly! It is too late to nip this in the bud but maybe if the employee sees you are serious and they have a look at the jobs market at the moment, they may see sense.

    Finally, if HR, or employee handbooks are non-existent in the company, talk to your line manager or the owner about how this is an issue. They should take steps to correct this as not having such items in place is pretty much guaranteeing an issue will ultimately arise in most of today's types of industries.


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    #4
    Telly
    Registered Users Posts: 520 ✭✭✭Telly


    Put her on a PIP. I had to do that and it really worked.


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    #5
    Jim Root
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Jim Root


    PIPs are the way to deal with these types


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    #6
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,035 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Jim Root wrote: »
    PIPs are the way to deal with these types

    If they are as bad as the OP says, are still there and they don't give a dam, then there is every chance they are there because management want them to be there - usually a political or commercial reason.

    I knew one case where a senior manager kept the most unless article on for one reason - anytime things went wrong, he'd point to the guy and mutter what do you expect - look at the quality of the staff. When he moved to a new company the yoyo went with him.

    On another occasion the useless article was kept on because he was related to the CEO of the company's biggest customer.... When he was asked for an explanation as to why he had missed several Tuesday coming to Easter, he happily explained to HR that he was off Tuesdays for Lent and got away with it.


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    #7
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    If they are as bad as the OP says, are still there and they don't give a dam, then there is every chance they are there because management want them to be there - usually a political or commercial reason.

    I knew one case where a senior manager kept the most unless article on for one reason - anytime things went wrong, he'd point to the guy and mutter what do you expect - look at the quality of the staff. When he moved to a new company the yoyo went with him.

    On another occasion the useless article was kept on because he was related to the CEO of the company's biggest customer.... When he was asked for an explanation as to why he had missed several Tuesday coming to Easter, he happily explained to HR that he was off Tuesdays for Lent and got away with it.

    PIP is the way to go here OP but TBH it sound like this employee is going to be a problem no matter what you do, passive aggressiveness and a general attitude problem are major red flags for me.

    I’m having a somewhat similar issue without the attitude problems. We have a clerical officer in my office who is quite capable but completely disinterested, continually forgetting important tasks, sloppy errors all over the place, texting on the mobile all day etc. She doesn’t report to me but I do have her assigned to me for certain tasks which are frankly unbearable due to having to micromanage her to the point where it would nearly be easier to do the work myself. Like yourself I have been on the softly softly road so far but my patience is wearing very thin at this stage. Very frustrating.


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    #8
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,520 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Telly wrote: »
    Put her on a PIP. I had to do that and it really worked.
    Jim Root wrote: »
    PIPs are the way to deal with these types
    The_Honeybadger wrote: »
    PIP is the way to go here OP but TBH it sound like this employee is going to be a problem no matter what you do, passive aggressiveness and a general attitude problem are major red flags for me.

    The company should have the whole disciplinary process, including PIP's documented or if not, that's a hurdle they should overcome before starting to focus on a staff member.

    If they don't have this, a PIP might still work but given that attitude suggested, if it is not done in an official and transparent manner, they could be open to accusations of unfair treatment from this employee in future.


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    #9
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks a lot for this advice everyone. Unfortunately it is in the civil service, so I think this does not help as there is no fear of the individual losing their job or even being moved on to another department or section.

    All I can do is ensure I am fully professional and document things as much to cover myself even. I am concerned with me being only 18 months into the role that the criticism will be levelled at me rather than the individual, so recording communication efforts in relation to the performance issue with her might help.

    I will look into the PIP concept - I am not sure if this kind of things is possible in the CS, but perhaps could be a follow-up from the annual PMDS review.


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    #10
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    It sounds to me that the writing is on the wall, and that there is nothing you can genuinely do to help this person improve. You seem like you are genuinely trying to help, but that she just has no interest. I myself would immediately get the ball rolling on dismissing her, taking care to do everything by the book of course.


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    #11
    1hnr79jr65
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭1hnr79jr65


    I would follow a pip process for this employee, at the very least if it is a fair pip guide path with achievable and measurable goals against the average of the team then no one can say you are picking on them. From that perspective is protects you OP.


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    #12
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    A pip will work but only if the company has proper disciplinary systems in place.
    There has to be a balance of both carrot and stick to put it bluntly.

    Something to benifet the employee if the pip is successful and some negative outcome if they fail the pip.

    If more senior management and indeed hr aren’t committed to this it will fail half way and reinforce to the employee that they are untouchable. If it’s a union environment then the union will need to be bought into the process too or it will get out of hand quickly.

    It sounds like you have targets already in place which is the first step.

    I wouldn’t go straight to the pip though, I’d be looking to start by sitting down for a 1:1 with the employee and set attainable goals over a period. Agree them and get a signature. Include that non attaining these will result in a disciplinary action and a pip. That gives the employee a fair chance to buck up and avoid a disciplinary which is really the goal anyway.

    If the goals aren’t met I’d then proceed with the pip and a verbal warning. I’ve always made a “verbal” warning a formal document that the employee signs to reinforce its gravity as being the first step of a process that can end in termination. Signature is acknowledgement the document has been delivered not necessary agreement. If employee refuses to sign I call in another supervisor or manager to co sign it’s delivery.

    Very few managers enjoy this process but it is essential. What will happen otherwise is other employees will see this lady as having an easy life with no repercussions and so slack off as well.


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    #13
    one world order
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭one world order


    As already has been said a PIP needs to be put in place with a member of HR to act as intermediary. However before it gets to that stage, sit down and have a conversation with her, making sure she knows the seriousness of the situation. Meeting deadlines and quality of work is very important in performance based cultures. At least that way you gave her every opportunity to improve.


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    #14
    brookers
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭brookers


    helpmeimnotadoctor wrote: »
    I'm in a management role about 18 months now and have an employee whose performance is beyond poor - not just a bit of a slacker or needing a firm nudge to get things done, but maybe hitting 20% of targets at best, and using excuses and blaming others to escape accountability. On top of all that there is extreme passive aggression and arrogance to the point that she thinks nobody can question her ability or skills.

    I'm torn how to deal with this - I have tried playing the "i'm on your side, but we need to resolve this and find ways for you to hit your targets" nicely nicely approach, but no progress, if anything it's getting worse over time. I fear clamping down hard will just play into her hands though as this is somebody who seems to love the battle and conflict. I am honestly scratching my head trying to move this forward.

    Any tips on nipping it in the bud and improving things?

    Do her colleagues not say anything. I worked with a similar type person and there was going to be a revolt amongst staff if she didnt do her fair share. in the end she left and i guess brought her lack of work ethic to her new job. In another situation with a person missing days, mainly fridays and mondays and every few weeks a complete week off. In the end HR were really smart, they brought her in and said that they would love to help if there was a physical or mental health reason why she couldnt do her job to the best of her ability, they said they were prepared to pay for a consultant to assess her and give her the best treatment available. She got an awful fright and left soon afterwards.


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    #15
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Sorry for the delay in responding - my posts need approval by a mod as I am posting anonymously.

    Some colleagues are frustrated at the perception that a "blind eye" is being turned to her and some feel they are carrying the burden of her workload on top of their own. Sick leave has also been a frequent occurrence as well as being late, disappearing for parts of the day etc. Hopefully the PIP or something similar through PMDS will provide a reality check. I am tearing my hair out after over a year of this.


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    #16
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    helpmeimnotadoctor wrote: »
    Sorry for the delay in responding - my posts need approval by a mod as I am posting anonymously.

    Some colleagues are frustrated at the perception that a "blind eye" is being turned to her and some feel they are carrying the burden of her workload on top of their own. Sick leave has also been a frequent occurrence as well as being late, disappearing for parts of the day etc. Hopefully the PIP or something similar through PMDS will provide a reality check. I am tearing my hair out after over a year of this.
    Have some experience in this area myself.

    Here's how to do the disciplining bit properly.

    Start from scratch tomorrow.

    Document transgressions.

    Have (and document) multiple informal meetings where you raise these transgressions.

    Raise them more seriously at PMDS mid year review and basically fail them for it. You cannot, under any circumstances, just leave raising issues until PMDS meetings. Anything you say or give out to them for at a PMDS meeting for you must have raised multiple times before hand, and documented it, so they can't say you sprung it on them. Inform your manager beforehand of your intentions and that you intend putting them on a PIP, and then go ahead with that.

    Presumably things won't improve, keep having meetings and documenting things.

    Talk to your manager and inform them of your intention to fail the employees year end PMDS. This means they won't get any increment. Also contact HR and tell them the same and ask for advice.

    What will likely happen at this stage is that the employee will get onto the union, your manager will have to get involved and it will be a ****storm. If your PO is intelligent, at some stage, probably early on, he will basically say that you have suffered enough and move the employee to be someone else's problem.

    If you get the waterworks formally refer the employee to the support services.

    Whatever you do, do not yell or make sarky comments. Keep with the "I'm concerned" vibe all the way through this.

    The key is to make it a problem for your boss and also potentially HR. As things stand, they don't see any problem. Even you moaning to your manager isn't really a problem for him. Failing an employee on PMDS and them going mad, with department HR and the union getting involved is a massive problem for your PO. They might even pressure you to pass them to stop the headache. At which stage you refuse to do so unless they are moved.

    The offender will be moved, which is really the only solution, and it will likely work out that the employee will think they have won the battle. But they will be out of your hair.

    Also be aware that the "I've been allowed get away with this for years and years" actually is a defence with some merit. Especially because you can be sure that nothing before you arrived has been properly documented which means that as far as the records show the employee was fine until you showed up.

    Document everything, I send an email after the meeting "this is to confirm we discussed xyz and we agreed abc"


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    #17
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    If your PO has cop on once he sees you are determined to go down this road he will just move the employee


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    #18
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thank you John Hutton - that is very helpful.
    I will start from scratch tomorrow and record conversations about this for the next months. Then at PMDS time there will be a record to bring to the table. I am not sure if moving her to another section is an option if it comes to it, but at least there will be a long trail of transgressions to make a case.


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    #19
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,850 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    I’ve been in this situation where for ‘years’ two different bosses ‘facilitated’ the most useless bastárd known to man. When he was pushed to do his fair share and hurried up, mistake after mistake happened, of course to be fixed not by him, by the following shift as in my team, morale sapping... I once happened upon his performance review and he was marked and scored in the top 10% of our department.

    The only way to fix is to discipline. If he does not get work done in the timeframe set out ?... letter of concern... if hurrying up puts him under pressure to the point he makes errors ? Discipline for poor performance needs to happen.

    No team should be carrying passengers. Yes some employees are going to be more efficient, fast, accurate and error free, but there needs to be a minimum standard.


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    #20
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    If the issues are thoroughly documented, why should the PO be worried about the union or not?

    As long as the employee is treated fairly, there's nothing the union can do.


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    #21
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    salonfire wrote: »
    If the issues are thoroughly documented, why should the PO be worried about the union or not?

    As long as the employee is treated fairly, there's nothing the union can do.

    That's the theory, reality is far far different. It is massive hassle and no PO wants to deal with it

    It's not that the PO would get in trouble or anything it's just a massive headache and it's easy to make one small little mistake along the way


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    #22
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Just to add, I'm not slagging off the union I was a rep myself for years and think everyone should be in a union but I know from personal experience that it is easy to overlook something that tbe union will notice and senior management will just want the problem to go away.

    Plus when it gets serious you'll have the whole being accused of bullying and tbe mental health card being played and it gets tricky


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    #23
    Ciaranis
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Ciaranis


    So the caricatures of the public service are... not without validity


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    #24
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Just to add, I'm not slagging off the union I was a rep myself for years and think everyone should be in a union but I know from personal experience that it is easy to overlook something that tbe union will notice and senior management will just want the problem to go away.

    Plus when it gets serious you'll have the whole being accused of bullying and tbe mental health card being played and it gets tricky

    Even though you know first hand the problems they can cause it in dealing with poor performance?

    Think about the amount of time the OP has spent on this person already, then needs to spend even more time to document and deal with it only for the person to be moved on to become someone's problem. Then the cycle starts again.


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    #25
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Ciaranis wrote: »
    So the caricatures of the public service are... not without validity

    Even caricature has an element of reality, albeit exaggerated. That's what makes it a caricature!

    People like the OPs staff member are: 1. Very Few. 2. Hated by everyone 3. Dying out

    They are a legacy issue. People like this now do not get past interviews etc and if they do they do not pass probation.

    Look at it this way, OPs employee could have a decade, or two, or more, of service where not one transgression has been properly DOCUMENTED. Everyone will know that the employee is ****. But the records will show that they were grand until 18 months ago OP arrived on the scene. Just think about how this can be portrayed and twisted.

    The civil service is a great place to work and the vast majority do great work. But there are a few pricks who take advantage but they are being weeded out.

    Ideally the person should be sacked but that would be extremely difficult.

    My posts here are to try and help the OP who is at his wits end with some practical advice which basically boils down to: make this a problem for someone who has the power to move the problem staff member


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    #26
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Im surprised you have to be told to use a PIP on here. If she has measurable goals just do it by numbers. Doesn't matter where this employee works, she either inproves or is issued warnings until she's terminated.
    So avoid the politics of why this persons feels she can under perform and get away with it and ya know..be a manager and discipline an underperforming employee.


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    #27
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    salonfire wrote: »
    Even though you know first hand the problems they can cause it in dealing with poor performance?

    Think about the amount of time the OP has spent on this person already, then needs to spend even more time to document and deal with it only for the person to be moved on to become someone's problem. Then the cycle starts again.
    The union won't cause the problem.

    Do you think that OPs staff member will go to the union and say "I've been a terrible freeloader for years and my boss is totally right"? Of course not, the union will get a sob story and then the union will do their job which is to help represent the worker. The union will look at everything and more than likely someone won't have done something properly somewhere or an alternative solution proposed such as a transfer.

    Think about it this way, if a worker has years and years of not getting in trouble, and has documents to demonstrate this (never been on a PIP, has passed PMDS etc.) and goes to the union and says manager of last 18 months is picking on me and making my life hell why shouldn't the union represent that person as vigorously as possible?


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    #28
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    John Hutton wrote: »
    The union won't cause the problem.

    Do you think that OPs staff member will go to the union and say "I've been a terrible freeloader for years and my boss is totally right"? Of course not, the union will get a sob story and then the union will do their job which is to help represent the worker. The union will look at everything and more than likely someone won't have done something properly somewhere or an alternative solution proposed such as a transfer.

    Think about it this way, if a worker has years and years of not getting in trouble, and has documents to demonstrate this (never been on a PIP, has passed PMDS etc.) and goes to the union and says manager of last 18 months is picking on me and making my life hell why shouldn't the union represent that person as vigorously as possible?

    John this is exactly my fear - she will say "there has never been a problem with my work before in 20 years" until 18 months ago - so now it seems I am the problem and it is me bullying her or using a power imbalance. I am afraid I will make a small error somewhere along the way - phrase something with the wrong tone - and be hung out to dry on it.

    It has been really helpful to have this advice, but even with a PIP I think it will be a challenge and can see that the next ten years might mean me working with her in very tense and hostile circumstances with little or no improvement and her doing the bare minimum until she retires.


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    #29
    sweet_trip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭sweet_trip


    Used to have a colleague like this in my PS job. Absolute tyrant, and a total sociopath with severe issues that would terrorize fellow staff and clients.

    It was horrendous, people would actually call in sick to avoid working with her.
    She would bully and abuse managers. Had her solicitor on speed dial.
    Actually assaulted some clients and ended up turning it on them and played victim.



    She would actually come in and at 10am (2 hours late) in the morning would point blank refuse to do work because "I want to be finished on time today". And would just go sit in the break room or go off shopping for the day and then piss off an hour before finish time.


    She was totally untouchable. Management dreaded her and it went so far up the chain and they never could handle her. It was horrendous.


    Her previous PS employer gave her glowing references just to get rid of her and offload her on our department.



    In the end she faked an injury and got a massive payout.



    Sickening.


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    #30
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks sweettrip (and everyone else) - this sounds exactly like my own case. At least I know I am not on my own with this and not the first person to experience it. It really is tough situation, so I will just take any small improvement right now and try and build on it I think whilst keeping my own mental health on track if I can.


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    #31
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,488 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    helpmeimnotadoctor wrote: »
    Sorry for the delay in responding - my posts need approval by a mod as I am posting anonymously.

    Some colleagues are frustrated at the perception that a "blind eye" is being turned to her and some feel they are carrying the burden of her workload on top of their own. Sick leave has also been a frequent occurrence as well as being late, disappearing for parts of the day etc. Hopefully the PIP or something similar through PMDS will provide a reality check. I am tearing my hair out after over a year of this.

    Talk to your HR people urgently. Get yourself on a performance management course as soon as possible.

    It absolutely is possible to deal with this, though it won't be easy. Get your PO on your side.


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