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2 month deadline. Looking for definition

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  • 05-02-2020 1:01pm
    #1
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭


    Hi,
    So like most I gained a fair bit over Christmas so I started into a fitness regime about 4 weeks ago.


    6ft 1" and weighed 93kg at the beginning
    Now down to 88kg and think I'll be able to reach my goal of 83/84 by the begining of April.


    Routine is 25 minute HIIT video (This one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yplP5cLuyf4 )


    Followed by Dumbbells (5KG each) doing the following x 3
    10 bicep curls
    10 Curl press
    10 tricep extensions
    10 standing chest press (Dont know the real name, what Hulk Hogan used to do)
    10 lunges
    10 bicep curls (Holding dumbbells vertical)
    10 standing chest press
    Plank for 30 seconds
    10 squats.


    I do this every morning for 6 sometimes 7 mornings a week. I dont go to the gym



    My diet is pretty good
    Handful of blueberries straight after workout
    Banana at 10am
    Lunch (Usually between 400/500 calories
    Dinner 600 calories
    Rice cake 100calories


    Interspersed with about 4 cups of tea per day


    So far this is really manageable for me and it allows me to snack if I need it.
    My question is as I'm approaching my goal weight how do I define my muscles more. I do not want to bulk up, I just want to define what I kind of already have. What can I add to my workouts at home to help with this
    Apologies for the long post


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    #2
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,088 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Definition is due to having low bodyfat. There is nothing you can do really, other than lose body fat.
    Whether you'll have good definition at 83kg, depends on your current BF%


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    #3
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Mellor wrote: »
    Definition is due to having low bodyfat. There is nothing you can do really, other than lose body fat.
    Whether you'll have good definition at 83kg, depends on your current BF%
    Thats true,
    I guess I'm looking to fill any gaps of muscles I'm not working with the above excercise plan. The weight loss I think I have a decent plan for


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    #4
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    seannash wrote: »
    Thats true,
    I guess I'm looking to fill any gaps of muscles I'm not working with the above exercise plan. The weight loss I think I have a decent plan for

    You're not doing any exercises for your back or hamstrings. You'd want to include things like chins, rows, and deadlifts for that.

    Also not wanting to sound mean but you'll also want to lift heavier than 5kg dumbbells in order to get defined muscles. I would get away from the HIIT stuff and try get stronger on basic compound exercises. Might want to get a PT to show you how to do those safely.

    Make sure not to starve yourself as well. It's counterproductive to your goal.


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    #5
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Cill94 wrote: »
    You're not doing any exercises for your back or hamstrings. You'd want to include things like chins, rows, and deadlifts for that.

    Also not wanting to sound mean but you'll also want to lift heavier than 5kg dumbbells in order to get defined muscles. I would get away from the HIIT stuff and try get stronger on basic compound exercises. Might want to get a PT to show you how to do those safely.

    Make sure not to starve yourself as well. It's counterproductive to your goal.
    Completely get I'm not lifting heavy weights but thats my set up at home unfortunately. Chins, rown and deadlifts sound like if need gym equipment which i dont have.

    My reasons for the dumbbells is i thought id be better doing more reps with less weight so i dont bulk up (if that makes sense)


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    #6
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,088 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    seannash wrote: »
    Completely get I'm not lifting heavy weights but thats my set up at home unfortunately. Chins, rown and deadlifts sound like if need gym equipment which i dont have.
    If you want results you’ll need much heavier weights
    My reasons for the dumbbells is i thought id be better doing more reps with less weight so i dont bulk up (if that makes sense)
    Higher reps is suppose to be better for bulking up.


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    #7
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Mellor wrote: »
    If you want results you’ll need much heavier weights


    Higher reps is suppose to be better for bulking up.

    Im not saying your wrong about the reps but everything ive read suggests its heavier weights with lower reps for mass

    https://www.genesishealthclubs.com/blog/fitness/building-muscle-mass-more-weight-or-more-reps.html


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    #8
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    I guess im asking what can i achieve with bodyweight exercises and proper diet.
    What im hearing is i need to go to the gym to use the equipment there


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    #9
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    seannash wrote: »
    Im not saying your wrong about the reps but everything ive read suggests its heavier weights with lower reps for mass

    https://www.genesishealthclubs.com/blog/fitness/building-muscle-mass-more-weight-or-more-reps.html

    That's a nonsense article from a health club. Volume drives muscle growth. Lower reps with heavier weights can have an impact on both recovery and frequency and consequently volume. But it's a moot point if you're using 5kg dumbbells.

    If you're limited to the equipment you have and a gym isn't an option, then just do what you can with what you have.

    The exercises you laid out aren't balanced. A lit of curls and pressing exercises but little pulling and lunges are the only lower body exercises. Needs to be a lot more balance.

    No one can say what you can achieve. All you can is try and maximise the results with what you have in the time you have.


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    #10
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    seannash wrote: »
    Im not saying your wrong about the reps but everything ive read suggests its heavier weights with lower reps for mass

    https://www.genesishealthclubs.com/blog/fitness/building-muscle-mass-more-weight-or-more-reps.html

    I'll say he's wrong.
    He's wrong.


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    #11
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,087 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    A simple bar with some plates will allow you to do squats and deadlifts. You won't be breaking world records but at least can do better moves.
    Add in s simple bench and you can do chest and rows with the same bar.

    Alternatively you could get a range of kettlebells (heavier than 10kg!) And research what you can do with them, but again that will be reps more than weight.


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    #12
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    seannash wrote: »
    My reasons for the dumbbells is i thought id be better doing more reps with less weight so i dont bulk up (if that makes sense)

    I guess im asking what can i achieve with bodyweight exercises and proper diet.
    What im hearing is i need to go to the gym to use the equipment there

    "The higher reps to get toned, lower reps for bulk" statement is a myth. It's lagely used by trainers and gyms who want to avoid teaching people how to lift things safely, despite the super light weights/bodyweight approach being suboptimal.

    Adding significant muscle mass can actually only happen if you eat enough calories - the number of reps you perform won't circumvent this fact.

    Just taking a guess at what you mean by defined muscles.. As someone who works as a strength coach and PT, I would be 90% certain the kind of muscle development that you're seeking will be best supplied by getting stronger and eating well.

    You can develop a decent base of upper body strength with bodyweight exercises like dips, chins, push-ups etc. However bodyweight won't cut it for lower body.

    My advice to you is to be extremely proud of the progress you've made thus far. If you enjoy your current routine then by all means stick with it. But it's far from optimal in my opinion. Hope that is of help.


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    #13
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,088 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    seannash wrote: »
    Im not saying your wrong about the reps but everything ive read suggests its heavier weights with lower reps for mass

    https://www.genesishealthclubs.com/blog/fitness/building-muscle-mass-more-weight-or-more-reps.html
    That's a fairly noncommittal article. It's largely nonsense.
    The traditional lower reps for strength and high reps for mass. There are arguments either way for mass, but strength programs undeniably favour low reps.
    Rodin wrote: »
    I'll say he's wrong.
    He's wrong.
    What a useless post. Take two seconds to google strength vrs mass programs please.


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    #14
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    That's a nonsense article from a health club. Volume drives muscle growth. Lower reps with heavier weights can have an impact on both recovery and frequency and consequently volume. But it's a moot point if you're using 5kg dumbbells.

    If you're limited to the equipment you have and a gym isn't an option, then just do what you can with what you have.

    The exercises you laid out aren't balanced. A lit of curls and pressing exercises but little pulling and lunges are the only lower body exercises. Needs to be a lot more balance.

    No one can say what you can achieve. All you can is try and maximise the results with what you have in the time you have.


    Thanks for this,
    I only linked that article as it was the first one to show up in a search but I have heard that. I take your point on board though.
    In terms of the workout being unbalanced, The HIIT is very leg heavy so I though that would even out the overall workout.


    I'll see about upping the weight for the routine as it seems to be the general consensus that its far too low.


    I only have a small window of time to get this done (6am in the morning) as location, life and time means I cant get to a gym unfortunately


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    #15
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Mellor wrote: »
    That's a fairly noncommittal article. It's largely nonsense.
    The traditional lower reps for strength and high reps for mass. There are arguments either way for mass, but strength programs undeniably favour low reps.

    What a useless post. Take two seconds to google strength vrs mass programs please.


    I appreciate the replies Mellor, Thanks again.
    That was the first article I saw when I was on my own but it confirmed what I'd heard before from PT's in gym's


    Everyday is a school day so thanks for showing me the alternative thinking on the subject


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    #16
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Anyone with any credentials won't be telling you that lower reps/heavier weight is how you build muscle (on top of a caloric surplus). But that's beside the point because it's not what you said you were looking for.

    I'd look at getting something heavier to work with because realistically 5kg dumbbells are so light for most exercises that they're borderline pointless. Limitations are limitations, in terms of what you can and can't do, so all you can do is work with what you have...but also look at what you could possibly improve in terms of equipment


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    #17
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin


    My simple very rough guide to weight:
    If you can do 12-15 reps it's too light - it's cardio - good for weight loss.
    If you can get to 15 and it's a struggle then you're close - try 4 x sets of 10 (you should be really struggling to get the last 2 reps on set 4), this is hypertrophy range (muscle building).
    If you can't go above 8 then do 4 x sets of 6 with long rests - strength building.

    I'm open to correction etc but that's what works for me.

    BTW to build more muscle you will loose definition as you have to eat more than you need, good stuff like protein etc.

    If you're big but want definition then eat less than you need, you will lose some muscle mass but definition will come.


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    #18
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Anyone with any credentials won't be telling you that lower reps/heavier weight is how you build muscle (on top of a caloric surplus). But that's beside the point because it's not what you said you were looking for.

    I'd look at getting something heavier to work with because realistically 5kg dumbbells are so light for most exercises that they're borderline pointless. Limitations are limitations, in terms of what you can and can't do, so all you can do is work with what you have...but also look at what you could possibly improve in terms of equipment
    Jesus I must be a lot weaker than I thought :). I can definitely feel the weights after some of the exercises (triceps extensions with the 5kg in both hands does sting a little)


    I definitely know I could cope with more weight but I didn't think it was pointless to do that routine with 10kg :)


    From what I'm hearing I need to get some equipment. Seems like a barbel is the way to go


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    #19
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    bladespin wrote: »
    My simple very rough guide to weight:
    If you can do 12-15 reps it's too light - it's cardio - good for weight loss.
    If you can get to 15 and it's a struggle then you're close - try 4 x sets of 10 (you should be really struggling to get the last 2 reps on set 4), this is hypertrophy range (muscle building).
    If you can't go above 8 then do 4 x sets of 6 with long rests - strength building.

    I'm open to correction etc but that's what works for me.

    BTW to build more muscle you will loose definition as you have to eat more than you need, good stuff like protein etc.

    If you're big but want definition then eat less than you need, you will lose some muscle mass but definition will come.


    I guess I'm in two camps. I want to lose weight (Another 4kg to go) but want to start to define my muscles. I don't necessarily want to build them if that makes sense. I'm not looking to get bigger per se


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    #20
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin


    seannash wrote: »
    I guess I'm in two camps. I want to lose weight (Another 4kg to go) but want to start to define my muscles. I don't necessarily want to build them if that makes sense. I'm not looking to get bigger per se

    Loose the fat first, it's often hard to tell exactly what's underneath it, you could be impressed.

    Defo up the weights a little to the point where 10 reps really does feel tough, even if it's just for the extra exertion they'll put on you (extra calorie burning).

    Also, I should have said earlier, if you're new to weight training then you'll probably gain some muscle anyway - noob gains (worth a google)/


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    #21
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    bladespin wrote: »
    Loose the fat first, it's often hard to tell exactly what's underneath it, you could be impressed.

    Defo up the weights a little to the point where 10 reps really does feel tough, even if it's just for the extra exertion they'll put on you (extra calorie burning).

    Also, I should have said earlier, if you're new to weight training then you'll probably gain some muscle anyway - noob gains (worth a google)/
    Yeah i guess im trying to cram too much into a short space of time. This was me at 83 about 3 years ago. (I have no other pictures standing up) Id like to get back to that. I did that mainly with aerobics classes and threadmill with some light lifting (dumbbells and the odd kettle bell)


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    #22
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin


    seannash wrote: »
    Yeah i guess im trying to cram too much into a short space of time. This was me at 83 about 3 years ago. (I have no other pictures standing up) Id like to get back to that. I did that mainly with aerobics classes and threadmill with some light lifting (dumbbells and the odd kettle bell)

    Goals are great, aim high but don'rt be too disappointed if you're a little short.

    Track your calories, work out your requirement then cut about 20% off that, stick to it - 1 kg per week is doable though better to aim for around half to three quarters.

    Train hard (heavier) consistently, 2 days on 1 day off (go for a walk on your day off), keep the HIIT too it worked amazingly well for me a while back.

    It might be an idea to break up the training into morning HIIT and evening weights sessions.


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    #23
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    seannash wrote: »
    Jesus I must be a lot weaker than I thought :). I can definitely feel the weights after some of the exercises (triceps extensions with the 5kg in both hands does sting a little)


    I definitely know I could cope with more weight but I didn't think it was pointless to do that routine with 10kg :)


    From what I'm hearing I need to get some equipment. Seems like a barbel is the way to go

    Ah no for some lifts I do, 5kg is more than enough. Joe DeFranco's Cuban press with 4kg dumbbells was a killer on the shoulders


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    #24
    rustynutz
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭rustynutz


    You can improve your workouts a lot without investing too much money, a chin up bar ( cheap one that fits in a doorway)and TRX bands you can hang off the ceiling will cover a lot of the upper body stuff. I would then concentrate on compound movements like chin ups, pull ups and press ups in different variations, rather than isolating movements like curls, its a more efficient use of your time. If you want to spend a little more, and space is limited, buy a set of adjustable dumbells, 5kg - 32kg or similar (these can be expensive, but worth it imo) These will allow you perform weighted lunges, db deadlifts and db squats


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