2017-21 help to buy scheme - megathread. All help to buy discussion here please

cronos · 14-11-2016 3:19am

Cayden Red Sender wrote: »

Banks count between 30 and 50% of the previous years commission / bonus towards your income when multiplying.

It is possibly an exception could be made given the salary level.

Anyone aware how the exemption process works? Do the bank decide who to exempt themselves? Or do they have to get permission from the Central Bank?

bleary · 14-11-2016 7:44am

Banks are free to decide themselves who gets the exemption.
The central bank audits them on a macro level to ensure that too many aren't being given out rather than case by case

bleary · 14-11-2016 7:44am

Apply and see , their exemptions restart in January so even if you were refused today you could reapply in January and hopefully get it.
Evidence appears to show however, that banks aren't using their exemptions fully anyway

sibersha · 17-11-2016 8:49pm

I was paying a lower incorrect amount of tax for a while (my employer blames revenue & revenue blames my employer), I agreed with the revenue to pay back the amount owed (relatively small 4 figure sum) over 4 years.

This was about 2 years ago, one of the conditions on revenue.ie is to be fully tax compliant in respect of the four years immediately prior to the claim.

Will I have to clear this outstanding balance with revenue in order to be eligible for the scheme?

Also, my partner was out of work for a period of time over the past 4 years and may fall just short of the PAYE payments that amount to 5% of the purchase value. Can my partner only claim up to a maximum of her PAYE payments made over the last 4 years?

The_Conductor · 17-11-2016 9:16pm

sibersha wrote: »

I was paying a lower incorrect amount of tax for a while (my employer blames revenue & revenue blames my employer), I agreed with the revenue to pay back the amount owed (relatively small 4 figure sum) over 4 years.

This was about 2 years ago, one of the conditions on revenue.ie is to be fully tax compliant in respect of the four years immediately prior to the claim.

Will I have to clear this outstanding balance with revenue in order to be eligible for the scheme?

Also, my partner was out of work for a period of time over the past 4 years and may fall just short of the PAYE payments that amount to 5% of the purchase value. Can my partner only claim up to a maximum of her PAYE payments made over the last 4 years?

You will have to contact Revenue to clarify this- however, technically, even if you repay the sum in full, you will not have been tax compliant for the 4 years prior to the claim- you will only commence being compliant in full, when you have fully repaid the o/s amount (regardless of how much or little that may be).

pilly · 18-11-2016 10:37am

sibersha wrote: »

I was paying a lower incorrect amount of tax for a while (my employer blames revenue & revenue blames my employer), I agreed with the revenue to pay back the amount owed (relatively small 4 figure sum) over 4 years.

This was about 2 years ago, one of the conditions on revenue.ie is to be fully tax compliant in respect of the four years immediately prior to the claim.

Will I have to clear this outstanding balance with revenue in order to be eligible for the scheme?

Also, my partner was out of work for a period of time over the past 4 years and may fall just short of the PAYE payments that amount to 5% of the purchase value. Can my partner only claim up to a maximum of her PAYE payments made over the last 4 years?

Revenue can be very helpful in this regard, if you get the right person they will do everything they can to accommodate you. I was previously working for a self-employed gentleman who was behind in taxes but had entered into an arrangement and they issued a tax clearance cert for me.

Technically you were tax compliant, if you were a PAYE worker the errors couldn't be down to you.

Ring them, honestly, they can be very helpful.

TheUnderfaker · 23-11-2016 11:45am

Apologies if similar questions have been asked before, but I can't seem to find the answer.

Contract has just been issued to my solicitor, so in order to get our kitchen appliances included I need to have them signed and returned within 28 days. I'm wondering if I sign the contract in December, will I qualify for the tax rebate for what I've paid in 2016? I returned to Ireland in late 2015 so only have the tax paid this by way of a rebate.

I was kind of hoping the contract might be delayed to the new year so I could say I signed it in 2017. Not entirely sure what the story is.

cronos · 23-11-2016 1:36pm

TheUnderfaker wrote: »

Apologies if similar questions have been asked before, but I can't seem to find the answer.

Contract has just been issued to my solicitor, so in order to get our kitchen appliances included I need to have them signed and returned within 28 days. I'm wondering if I sign the contract in December, will I qualify for the tax rebate for what I've paid in 2016? I returned to Ireland in late 2015 so only have the tax paid this by way of a rebate.

I was kind of hoping the contract might be delayed to the new year so I could say I signed it in 2017. Not entirely sure what the story is.

If it helps I signed after the 28 days and just made sure that the contract stated that I would still get the kitchen utilities. I would just ring Revenue with that question though, you will need to fill out your form 12's anyway so better to get the ball rolling now.

68 lost souls · 23-11-2016 3:14pm

Rumors that the scheme will be scrapped?

http://www.98fm.com/Central-Bank-Scraps-20-Per-Cent-Rule-For-First-Time-Buyers

Surely this now would effect people that bought on the basis of the scheme, and are at the limit of the 3.5 x income would need to borrow the difference in what the scheme was getting them but cant because they are maxed out?

pilly · 23-11-2016 3:33pm

68 lost souls wrote: »

Rumors that the scheme will be scrapped?

http://www.98fm.com/Central-Bank-Scraps-20-Per-Cent-Rule-For-First-Time-Buyers

Surely this now would effect people that bought on the basis of the scheme, and are at the limit of the 3.5 x income would need to borrow the difference in what the scheme was getting them but cant because they are maxed out?

There's no way that the scheme will be scrapped. They have announced it now so they will have to run it for at least 1 year.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 23-11-2016 3:33pm

68 lost souls wrote: »

Rumors that the scheme will be scrapped?

http://www.98fm.com/Central-Bank-Scraps-20-Per-Cent-Rule-For-First-Time-Buyers

Surely this now would effect people that bought on the basis of the scheme, and are at the limit of the 3.5 x income would need to borrow the difference in what the scheme was getting them but cant because they are maxed out?

They'd be mad to scrap this as it would take the incentive away from FTB's to purchase new stock, thus decreasing new supply.

mahoganygas · 23-11-2016 3:35pm

68 lost souls wrote:

Rumors that the scheme will be scrapped?

I haven't seen anything on the help to buy scheme being scrapped, unless I'm missing something?

I just see news on the central bank lending rules changing.

I assume the government budget decision on new builds still stands?

pilly · 23-11-2016 3:43pm

mahoganygas wrote: »

I haven't seen anything on the help to buy scheme being scrapped, unless I'm missing something?

I just see news on the central bank lending rules changing.

I assume the government budget decision on new builds still stands?

It does say at the end of the article that it throws doubt on the scheme but I agree it doesn't mean they're going to scrap it.

The governments idea was more about stimulating new builds.

Pedro32561 · 23-11-2016 4:02pm

mahoganygas wrote: »

I haven't seen anything on the help to buy scheme being scrapped, unless I'm missing something?

I just see news on the central bank lending rules changing.

I assume the government budget decision on new builds still stands?

It looks like it's just media speculation. Hard to see how it could be scrapped.

The_Conductor · 23-11-2016 7:43pm

The scheme was a two pronged scheme- on the one hand designed to ameliorate the 20% deposit requirement for first time buyers versus the 10% requirement for other purchasers- on the other hand to stimulate the construction of residential dwellings.

The Minister got to play Santa Claus with first-time-buyers- appearing to single them out for preferable treatment- in a manner that he could point at come the next election- however, the central tenent of his approach was always to stimulate the construction of new property........

As the excuse for giving FTBs preferable treatment- has now been nullified- the honest approach would now be to abandon the scheme and simply incentivise the industry directly..........

Will it happen this way? I doubt it- he is a politician after all..........

mahoganygas · 23-11-2016 8:26pm

The_Conductor wrote:

As the excuse for giving FTBs preferable treatment- has now been nullified- the honest approach would now be to abandon the scheme and simply incentivise the industry directly..........

Paul Murphy and Clare Daly would have kittens if the government tried to give developers a leg up.

Totally agree that this scheme is all about optics. As a potential FTB I'm under no illusion that this scheme is designed to benefit me.

Aph2016 · 23-11-2016 9:32pm

The scheme being scrapped would be the worst possible outcome. The 10% deposit doesn't make much difference for the majority of people and new builds have already gone up in price on the back of the Help to Buy scheme.

GDK_11 · 23-11-2016 9:42pm

Going through the the process of buying a new build at the moment. The incentive was a big thing in us going for a new build, so if it's possibly being scrapped we may have to hold tight for a bit.
Financially we would still just about be ok but the rebate was going to be a little nest egg so to speak.

CramCycle · 23-11-2016 10:00pm

No mention or hint of it being scrapped, only in a few click bait articles with no mention of it passed the opinion of a noose trying to sell a story.

Pedro32561 · 23-11-2016 10:09pm

CramCycle wrote: »

No mention or hint of it being scrapped, only in a few click bait articles with no mention of it passed the opinion of a noose trying to sell a story.

Totally agree. Pure click bait.

Michael Noonan was just interviewed on the news saying how the new Central Bank rules and the grant will work really well together for first time buyers. It won't be scrapped.

Ray Donovan · 23-11-2016 10:56pm

Could anybody give me some advice please?

We are currently building our house.

Mortgage of €250,000 and valuation used by bank upon completion is €360,000 (which is a bit crazy in my opinion).

This means my LTV is 69.44%. I meet all the other criteria except minimum 70% LTV. Are there any options available to me?

Stheno · 23-11-2016 11:09pm

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Could anybody give me some advice please?

We are currently building our house.

Mortgage of €250,000 and valuation used by bank upon completion is €360,000 (which is a bit crazy in my opinion).

This means my LTV is 69.44%. I meet all the other criteria except minimum 70% LTV. Are there any options available to me?

Increase your mortgage?

Ray Donovan · 23-11-2016 11:13pm

Stheno wrote: »

Increase your mortgage?

Minimum top up I think is €20,000!!! So I don't think that's a runner!!

CramCycle · 23-11-2016 11:23pm

Is it too late to get it revalued and paperwork redone. Talk to your mortgage adviser or the property valuation crowd and see can it be valued at 350,000?

If you already have the mortgage that maybe difficult.

Earleybird · 23-11-2016 11:25pm

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Minimum top up I think is €20,000!!! So I don't think that's a runner!!

You don't need much revision downward, I would get a list of approved valuers with your mortgage provider and get on the phone, you should find one that values it favourably.

cronos · 24-11-2016 1:48am

I don't see anywhere saying it would be scrapped at this stage. My guess thought is that they will have a review of how it's impacting prices over the course of the year and if it's having a negative impact remove it in the next budget or adapt it somehow.

ohlordy · 28-11-2016 2:13pm

Sunday Business Post had it being scrapped on their front page yesterday. I would think that's a step up from it only being mentioned on clickbait sites as stated above

ohlordy · 28-11-2016 2:18pm

Examiner http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/first-time-buyers-grant-could-be-axed-432620.html
says it could be scrapped if it is demonstrated it has caused prices to rise.
It's not at all clear when this decision may be taken, it could be after it has been in operation for a year or two, it could be before it starts.

Michael D Not Higgins · 28-11-2016 3:25pm

Collyb101 wrote: »

I really with Central Bank and the Government would sit down and have a chat. <snip>*

They are in contact, they just have different remits and expectations of outcomes from their respective policies. The Central Bank has been firm about these policies being implemented in the first instance, the first real regulatory prudential limiting of the mortgage industry in years (decades even?) against the will of the government but not in ignorance of the government.

flashforward · 28-11-2016 10:45pm

Anyone know if unfinished properties apply for the grant?

Missed opportunity if not.

68 lost souls · 29-11-2016 9:26am

ohlordy wrote: »

Sunday Business Post had it being scrapped on their front page yesterday. I would think that's a step up from it only being mentioned on clickbait sites as stated above

This would be absolutely devastating for us. Signed our contracts and handed over deposits a fortnight ago.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 29-11-2016 10:20am

I'd imagine even if it was scrapped it would still stand from July to whenever the scrapped date would be, as it would screw a lot of parties otherwise.

Utah · 29-11-2016 10:22am

Cayden Red Sender wrote: »

I'd imagine even if it was scrapped it would still stand from July to whenever the scrapped date would be, as it would screw a lot of parties otherwise.

I would imagine they'd have to honour it

68 lost souls · 29-11-2016 10:37am

Cayden Red Sender wrote: »

I'd imagine even if it was scrapped it would still stand from July to whenever the scrapped date would be, as it would screw a lot of parties otherwise.

Especially if the reason being put forward was raised housing costs, then those effected by the raised costs would be truly screwed. (Thankfully not us)

bleary · 29-11-2016 11:49am

I imagine the talk of scrapping is just to put the frighteners on developers. So we need to see a big increase in development and stopping price gouging or else we will pull the rug out. It won't happen before the next budget. tbh it was presented originally anyway as a short term measure (two years I think).

I did laugh at Simon Coveney talking about how the grant had not affected prices of new developments recently. He said that only three developments raised prices and two rolled these increases back.
How many waited till after the budget to release the new schemes and phases?
Including the Nama backed Hazel brook where prices increased from 450,000 to 485,000 in the space of 5 months.
Can everyone who thinks that is helping them to buy raise their hands?

awec · 29-11-2016 12:19pm

Short term it will cause pain, but ultimately the whole point is to make developers build more houses, not to put more money in buyers pockets. Houses that exist today can increase prices because there still isn't enough supply, but it will be more difficult to raise prices when supply increases (which is what this grant is supposed to stimulate).

It brings more people into the net of buying which will:

1. Increase demand initially for low supply, bringing prices up
2. Developers will see they can make money again, they will build more
3. Supply will increase, prices will stabilise and possibly drop
4. As people currently renting start buying property the rental supply increases and the rental demand decreases, freeing up homes for people who cannot buy and causing rent prices to fall.
5. This in turn makes it easier for renters to save for houses

The system is all blocked up at the moment, the point is to unblock the system. It isn't going to solve the problem overnight, people complaining that prices are going up are missing the point IMO. Politicians complaining about it are being disingenuous to play to the crowd.

ohlordy · 29-11-2016 3:37pm

Today the Irish Times are reporting details of how it will work, opens for applications on revenue website from January 3rd, so perhaps it is going ahead as planned

The_Conductor · 29-11-2016 3:42pm

ohlordy wrote: »

Today the Irish Times are reporting details of how it will work, opens for applications on revenue website from January 3rd, so perhaps it is going ahead as planned

Going ahead until at least mid September 2017- when it is to be evaluated by a number of different Departments, under the auspices of Minister Coveney, before budget 2018.

CramCycle · 29-11-2016 3:43pm

ohlordy wrote: »

Today the Irish Times are reporting details of how it will work, opens for applications on revenue website from January 3rd, so perhaps it is going ahead as planned

It was never in doubt once they announced it, maybe the details but it is almost unheard of for a government to roll back on such a statement so quickly. The earliest it was ever going to fold up will be at the end of next year. Although with issues relating to permission, building, unexpected delays, it would be foolish not to let it run for two years to let it run it's course and see if it can work.

ohlordy · 29-11-2016 3:44pm

IT report says running til December 31 2019

TheUnderfaker · 07-12-2016 3:33pm

Just in case anybody is in the same situation as I am - returning emigrant signing contracts in 2016 and hoping to get 2016 tax paid included in rebate - I was speaking to revenue and confirmed that the scheme starts in 2017, so all claims in the first year will be based on the 2013-2016 tax years.

stickman22 · 07-12-2016 11:48pm

Great, so this current year (2016) is taken into account?

TheUnderfaker · 08-12-2016 8:10am

stickman22 wrote: »

Great, so this current year (2016) is taken into account?

That's the word I got from revenue, yes. Can we take their word is a completely different question

CramCycle · 08-12-2016 10:07am

TheUnderfaker wrote: »

That's the word I got from revenue, yes. Can we take their word is a completely different question ðŸ˜‰

It is never their word, it is their "opinion", and you should try and get it in writing (not in this matter but in general). Opinions like they say, are like ********s, everyone's got one. Just like real life though, revenue are entitled to change their opinion.

TheUnderfaker · 08-12-2016 10:50am

CramCycle wrote: »

It is never their word, it is their "opinion", and you should try and get it in writing (not in this matter but in general). Opinions like they say, are like ********s, everyone's got one. Just like real life though, revenue are entitled to change their opinion.

I have submitted a query to "my enquiries" on revenue.ie and am waiting on a response to that. Just called up in the meantime to ask the question.

I'd be inclined to believe the guy I was talking to. The online system works for the last 4 tax years so when it comes to submitting applications in 2017 the only years available will be 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.

I will update here when I get the written response anyway.

CramCycle · 08-12-2016 11:25am

TheUnderfaker wrote: »

I have submitted a query to "my enquiries" on revenue.ie and am waiting on a response to that. Just called up in the meantime to ask the question.

I'd be inclined to believe the guy I was talking to. The online system works for the last 4 tax years so when it comes to submitting applications in 2017 the only years available will be 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.

I will update here when I get the written response anyway.

Thanks for that. I do wonder then the hubbub about getting the 2012 (which had to be scanned and submitted online to a different are of myaccount) stuff in. Is it a case of, which ever one suits you best?

ams · 08-12-2016 12:17pm

I just printed out the 2012 returns yesterday.

Given that I won't receive my 2016 P60 until February at the earliest it will suit me better to claim from 2012 -2015.

TheUnderfaker · 08-12-2016 12:48pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Thanks for that. I do wonder then the hubbub about getting the 2012 (which had to be scanned and submitted online to a different are of myaccount) stuff in. Is it a case of, which ever one suits you best?

I must have missed that hubbub... What happened there if you don't mind me asking?

CramCycle · 08-12-2016 1:46pm

TheUnderfaker wrote: »

I must have missed that hubbub... What happened there if you don't mind me asking?

hubbub might be a bit strong. Revenue are currently taking Form 12s on their website for the year 2012, specifically for the purpose of the help to buy scheme. i think someone here even had a link earlier. Instead of just rolling back the current system from 2013 to 2012, you had to print out the Form 12 for 2012, fill it out, scan it and submit it online (only for this scheme). They will then use this for those who bought in 2016 apparently.

Hence why I ask will it be the best of the two options?

TheUnderfaker · 08-12-2016 3:05pm

CramCycle wrote: »

hubbub might be a bit strong. Revenue are currently taking Form 12s on their website for the year 2012, specifically for the purpose of the help to buy scheme. i think someone here even had a link earlier. Instead of just rolling back the current system from 2013 to 2012, you had to print out the Form 12 for 2012, fill it out, scan it and submit it online (only for this scheme). They will then use this for those who bought in 2016 apparently.

Hence why I ask will it be the best of the two options?

Interesting, I never knew that was happening. Hopefully we get the best of both worlds or else I ain't gettin no rebate!

2017-21 help to buy scheme - megathread. All help to buy discussion here please

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