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Where are all the stolen bikes going?

2

Comments

  • #52
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,196 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    smacl wrote: »
    The question here is whether the most effective use of their resources is to focus on the market that sells stolen goods or on the act of theft?
    replace 'drugs' with 'bikes'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7M71wmwWRo


  • #53
    Azizur Rahman
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Azizur Rahman


    NasserShammaz wrote: »
    Good luck, still waiting 4 year's later for them to collect USB stick with clear images of the scum that were stealing bikes from our apartment building and we are in the city centre.

    You should write to your local Superintendent about that. Talk about the ball being dropped by AGS.


  • #54
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    smacl wrote: »
    I don't think the value of the bike is the issue here so much as the lack of deterrent for a repeat offence. The Gardaí should be providing a strong response in order to add substantial risk to a crime that currently has rewards that outweigh the attendant risks. The question here is whether the most effective use of their resources is to focus on the market that sells stolen goods or on the act of theft?


    That's all hypothetical and wishful thinking.

    They cant catch the guy based on information provided. This is a fact.

    So what to you actually expect them to do?

    Here's a photo of a bike and a serial number, and a photo or footage of someone you cant identifiy - what do you expect the gardai to be able to do with this?

    Lets separate out what we would like them to do - and focus on what they can actually do here for a moment.


  • #55
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,032 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    smacl wrote: »
    I don't think the value of the bike is the issue here so much as the lack of deterrent for a repeat offence. The Gardaí should be providing a strong response in order to add substantial risk to a crime that currently has rewards that outweigh the attendant risks. The question here is whether the most effective use of their resources is to focus on the market that sells stolen goods or on the act of theft?

    I guarantee that if you ask a Garda off the record who stole the bike they'd have a good idea who it was, most crime is committed by a tiny minority. There problem is catching them with enough evidence and then if they do bring them to court they walk away with a slap on the wrist.

    The courts need to start dealing with the criminals* but the legal profession makes a fortune from these cases and judges come from the same profession.

    *I'm not saying jail, but the current system definitely isn't working for the public.


  • #56
    machaseh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 803 ✭✭✭machaseh


    Once a criminal has a bad enough record, they basically have nothing to lose left. Then getting some time for stealing a bike doesn't matter anymore.


  • #57
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Del2005 wrote: »
    I guarantee that if you ask a Garda off the record who stole the bike they'd have a good idea who it was, most crime is committed by a tiny minority. There problem is catching them with enough evidence and then if they do bring them to court they walk away with a slap on the wrist.

    The courts need to start dealing with the criminals* but the legal profession makes a fortune from these cases and judges come from the same profession.

    *I'm not saying jail, but the current system definitely isn't working for the public.

    The legal profession makes f**k all from minor offences like bike theft. Free legal aid pays peanuts in those cases. Your average painter and decorator probably makes more money per hour. And its not for the legal profession or judges to decide what system to implement. That's for the legislators.

    Maybe you have some inside knowledge regarding the gardai and perpetrators of bike theft, but you're way off the mark with your comments regarding 'the legal system'.

    Bike theft is an absolute kick in the balls and its hugely frustrating to see it continue year on year. But it does nobody any favours to point of pie-in-the-sky solutions such as its all the legal profession's fault.


  • #58
    ifElseThen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 348 ✭✭ifElseThen


    Similar to the stolen UK tools coming here and stolen Irish tools going to the UK, I would imagine.

    https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/owner-spotted-stolen-bike-for-sale-on-net-28848296.html

    This was my bike. Got it back after I posted an ad on donedeal.
    Also tracked him down and told him he had 2 hours to get the bike back or I would go to town on him.
    He rang the Guards on me, and the Garda rang me to tell me to not harass him.
    Never saw the €250 compensation.
    The bike was stolen again a couple of months later.


  • #59
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    That's all hypothetical and wishful thinking.

    They cant catch the guy based on information provided. This is a fact.

    So what to you actually expect them to do?

    Here's a photo of a bike and a serial number, and a photo or footage of someone you cant identifiy - what do you expect the gardai to be able to do with this?

    Lets separate out what we would like them to do - and focus on what they can actually do here for a moment.

    The cctv was clear and my photo was clear. If the garda call popular stores on a daily basis to arrest shoplifter, can they not also put some effort into bike theft?

    The courts have a significant role to play and I don't think they are supporting AGS by repeated suspended sentences for this sort of crime. It's petty stuff but still an offence.


  • #60
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    The cctv was clear and my photo was clear. If the garda call popular stores on a daily basis to arrest shoplifter, can they not also put some effort into bike theft?

    The courts have a significant role to play and I don't think they are supporting AGS by repeated suspended sentences for this sort of crime. It's petty stuff but still an offence.

    And what.

    The gardai arrive 15 minutes later. They get photo. Who is it. We don't know. Where are they. We don't know. Lets drive around for the next hour on the off chance we catch them.

    Stores have security assistants that can detain shoplifters; not the same thing.

    I still maintain there is absolutely damn all the gardai can do and people need to adjust their expectations.

    The courts is another issue - but I don't see it as something that can be influenced.

    For me - cyclists need to push to make it harder to sell stolen bikes - by pressuring the legit business that sell stolen bikes and/ or facilitate sales of stolen bikes.

    The Rugby and Gaelic guys are always banging on about the controllables - this is the only part of the chain cyclists can influence IMHO....


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  • #61
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    ifElseThen wrote: »
    Similar to the stolen UK tools coming here and stolen Irish tools going to the UK, I would imagine.

    https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/owner-spotted-stolen-bike-for-sale-on-net-28848296.html

    This was my bike. Got it back after I posted an ad on donedeal.
    Also tracked him down and told him he had 2 hours to get the bike back or I would go to town on him.
    He rang the Guards on me, and the Garda rang me to tell me to not harass him.
    Never saw the €250 compensation.
    The bike was stolen again a couple of months later.

    That's a good one.

    Saw a bunch of sold ads yesterday that seemed very similar - 'Nice Bike for Sale' when actually its a 2018 version of a well known brand and well know model, retailing for 700 or 800 euro, and seller has it on sale for 100 euro because they don't even know what they have.

    Anyway - lets hope he knuckles down for the leaving cert!!:)


  • #62
    Finnrocco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭Finnrocco


    Where I live every single young lad is going around on a very nice bike - usually mountain / hybrid type with disc brakes.

    I don't think their parents are forking out 500 +.


  • #63
    Finnrocco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭Finnrocco


    It must be possible to create some sort of immobiliser on a bike.

    For example, there are skewers and seat post bolts that have an allen key type head on it - you lock the axel and the bolt with a specific tool.

    Must be possible to lock the chainset for example so that it can only be opened with this specific tool.

    I don't know how you would do it but I'm sure engineering type people could figure out a way.


  • #64
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    The gardai arrive 15 minutes later. They get photo. Who is it. We don't know. Where are they. We don't know. Lets drive around for the next hour on the off chance we catch them.

    I think the post below is probably a better explanation. I don't believe that bike theft is a crime that is particularly more difficult to address than other forms of common theft such as burglary. Suggesting that AGS can't police this and we should change our expectations of them is just green-lighting the crime.
    Del2005 wrote: »
    I guarantee that if you ask a Garda off the record who stole the bike they'd have a good idea who it was, most crime is committed by a tiny minority. There problem is catching them with enough evidence and then if they do bring them to court they walk away with a slap on the wrist.

    Agreed. The courts need to be handing out harsher sentences to habitual repeat offenders.


  • #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Finnrocco wrote: »
    Where I live every single young lad is going around on a very nice bike - usually mountain / hybrid type with disc brakes.

    I don't think their parents are forking out 500 +.

    Even a Carrera from Halfords which a lot of them round my way are on will set you back about 400+

    One father and son though near us who wouldn't work to warm themselves are riding around on a Felt F5 and a Boardman SLR 8.9a worth about 1200 new, would sicken your hole to see him ride it, he even looks lazy doing that :mad:


  • #66
    reg114
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭reg114


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Thats really interesting on a number of fronts.

    (I) that it took so long to hit Adverts.
    (II) a lot of people look in the for sale sections, or in the sold section.

    More items in Adverts seem to be 'Withdrawn' than 'Sold' even after a transaction appears to have been conducted (i.e. offer made, pms sent etc) - so always look in the Withdrawn section also.

    Other point - this notion that 'the gardai are doing nothing' really annoys me.

    I do think the spotlight needs to be elsewhere - particular on the people who act as distributors of bikes.

    As mentioned - if Adverts/ DoneDeal made it a requirement to post a serial code for any bike being advertised, if bike shops had to record the serial code for every bike they sold - I think we would see a very sharp drop in bike thefts.

    Perhaps the authorities could force websites like adverts.ie to show a photo of the bikes serial number in the ad for the bike...


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  • #67
    reg114
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭reg114


    I reported an advert for a bike worth 7k which was online for a tenth of the price , the website in question took the ad down


  • #68
    oholly121
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭oholly121


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Regarding the immediate incident: Not being smart but what can the Gardaí do with CCTV.

    They have a cut lock, grainy image of some dude they cant identify and a stolen item that they cant trace.

    What exactly should they be doing here? To pursue a bike worth what - 300 euro ? 500 euro?

    What is your ask of the Gardaí in this situation? Because I don't see any way they conduct an investigation based on the information presented.

    Don't mean to be a downer but I am just seeing in my view from a realist position.

    Regarding the van - all I can say is when I had a bike stolen from the garage, they came around and spent an hour at the house talking about it; so it would be inconsistent to say they least if they didn't follow up on this.

    My wider position here is that there is very little the gardai can do about bike crime, therefore the gardai do very little about bike crime apart from offer sympathy. And bike owners would be wrong to (I) expect more and (ii) blame the gardai for this. Which goes back to the bigger point here - who is robbing bikes, where are the bikes going. With the ultimate point being - the most effective way to change this situation is to make it much more difficult to sell stolen bikes.

    Sorry Guard


  • #69
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    oholly121 wrote: »
    Sorry Guard

    I'm not a guard, don't have any family members guards. Or any friends guards.


  • #70
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,462 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    reg114 wrote: »
    Perhaps the authorities could force websites like adverts.ie to show a photo of the bikes serial number in the ad for the bike...

    Photo AND text version of the serial number - so the owner can set up an alert to be notified whenever an ad is submitted.

    It wouldn't stop some real chancers, but it would make it very, very obvious that it is a dodgy sale.

    Also, anyone selling more than x bikes a year (x = 3 maybe, or 5) should require photo id with proof of address) to be sure they are traceable.

    These sites really have a big responsibility.


  • #71
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    smacl wrote: »
    I think the post below is probably a better explanation. I don't believe that bike theft is a crime that is particularly more difficult to address than other forms of common theft such as burglary. Suggesting that AGS can't police this and we should change our expectations of them is just green-lighting the crime.

    Agreed. The courts need to be handing out harsher sentences to habitual repeat offenders.

    Disagree.

    Its just being realistic about the situation.

    Green lighting - I'd put say people driving in bus lanes in that category. Or people breaking speed limit in city centre. There's never any checks. So people do it.

    In the above situation, gardai can set up speed checks on Dorset Street if they want. They don't.

    This situation is different because there is absolutely no way that this can be policed.

    Gardaí cant prevent a bike being stolen. And once its reported they have absolutely no way to track down the thief. A photo of the bike, a serial number, a cctv photo of the thief.



    The information the yneed is - who stole it, whats their name, where do they live, where have they stored the bike. They don't have any of that.

    It just really annoys me when I see people whingeing about the Gardaí in this situation, as they are blaming people who didn't cause the situation and can do damn all about it - its lazy scapegoating.

    That's why - because I've thought long and hard about it after having several bikes stolen!! - I think the number one way to approach this is to make it harder to sell Stolen Bikes.

    Hello used goods websites!!

    That's if you want to tackle the problem. I do get the sense in Ireland, that what people actually want is just to give out, and they don't really care what they are giving out about.


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  • #72
    NasserShammaz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 886 ✭✭✭NasserShammaz


    Parnell st.


  • #73
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Photo AND text version of the serial number - so the owner can set up an alert to be notified whenever an ad is submitted.

    It wouldn't stop some real chancers, but it would make it very, very obvious that it is a dodgy sale.

    Also, anyone selling more than x bikes a year (x = 3 maybe, or 5) should require photo id with proof of address) to be sure they are traceable.

    These sites really have a big responsibility.

    Agreed - they make the distinction between Private Sellers and Commercial Sellers.

    If a guy is selling €2k worth of bikes a month - all for €300/ €400 each - that's some work for one bloke selling his own bikes.

    And there are heaps of these punters.

    A lot of these sites are owned by reputable international businesses, you'd have thought certain standards apply.


  • #74
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Paddigol wrote: »
    The legal profession makes f**k all from minor offences like bike theft. Free legal aid pays peanuts in those cases.

    Do they not get paid on the same rate no matter what the crime is?
    I had thought most of the big firms handled most of the legal aid cases, making decent money for the partners, while paying the junior solicitors, who are dealing with it, peanuts.


  • #75
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Spent a lot of time looking at used goods websites in past few days and its really - I cant believe it to be honest.

    I nearly every part of Dublin, there is an individual (from their home) that is actively advertising bikes for sale week in week out - selling literally dozens and dozens of bikes, and mostly marked 'withdrawn' after a transaction is agreed.

    By area, I just went through the 'As' and even in the As alone there are 5 or 6 of these guys.


  • #76
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Spent a lot of time looking at used goods websites in past few days and its really - I cant believe it to be honest.

    I nearly every part of Dublin, there is an individual (from their home) that is actively advertising bikes for sale week in week out - selling literally dozens and dozens of bikes, and mostly marked 'withdrawn' after a transaction is agreed.

    By area, I just went through the 'As' and even in the As alone there are 5 or 6 of these guys.

    As per my previous post, if you simply made the resale sites jointly and severally liable for fencing stolen goods, this outlet could be shut down quickly without much expense.


  • #77
    gman2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭gman2k


    Tombo2001 wrote:
    I nearly every part of Dublin, there is an individual (from their home) that is actively advertising bikes for sale week in week out - selling literally dozens and dozens of bikes, and mostly marked 'withdrawn' after a transaction is agreed.


    I'm on adverts, and I nearly always have a couple of bikes for sale, as basically it's a hobby of mine to buy bits and pieces, build them up and sell on (generally at a loss tbh).
    There are plenty of people out there like me too.
    But, there are obvious signs of dodginess that have been discussed here already.


  • #78
    sunny2004
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭sunny2004


    Has no one come up with a GPS tracker for bikes ? Seems rather odd as they are relatively cheap and small.


  • #79
    bladespin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,368 ✭✭✭bladespin


    sunny2004 wrote: »
    Has no one come up with a GPS tracker for bikes ? Seems rather odd as they are relatively cheap and small.

    There are many available, not sure how many actually want them, horse to water etc.
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  • #80
    sunny2004
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭sunny2004


    I would have thought even a sticker on the bike saying this bike has an embedded GPS tracker, even if it's not present, would put most of the scum robbing bikes off.


  • #81
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    You can chip a dog,.so it would be so easy to chip a bicycle!?


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  • #82
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    The other thing with GPS - which is not clear to me - has anyone ever retrieved a bike through GPS and would the guards follow up on it.


  • #83
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    gman2k wrote: »
    I'm on adverts, and I nearly always have a couple of bikes for sale, as basically it's a hobby of mine to buy bits and pieces, build them up and sell on (generally at a loss tbh).
    There are plenty of people out there like me too.
    But, there are obvious signs of dodginess that have been discussed here already.


    Ok so that's interesting

    But in your case would you not also be buying bits and pieces. You'd see both sides of it.


  • #84
    gman2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭gman2k


    Tombo2001 wrote:
    But in your case would you not also be buying bits and pieces. You'd see both sides of it.


    Exactly, I see some sellers who are continuously selling high end parts, in near to new condition. I can't see a genuine reason for how they are doing what they are doing.
    Unless they are involved in the bike business somewhere it doesn't make any sense.
    My gut tells me they are fencing parts stripped off bikes that were stolen on the continent at some stage.


  • #85
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    gman2k wrote: »
    Exactly, I see some sellers who are continuously selling high end parts, in near to new condition. I can't see a genuine reason for how they are doing what they are doing.
    Unless they are involved in the bike business somewhere it doesn't make any sense.
    My gut tells me they are fencing parts stripped off bikes that were stolen on the continent at some stage.

    What would you think if they were specialists in two lines of goods...

    for example, bikes and mobile phones.

    Or bikes and power tools, the type you'd normally see in a garage or shed.

    Somehow a steady supply of both.

    Not being smart, but there is a chance there is a valid explanation for this....I just don't see it.


  • #86
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    smacl wrote: »
    As per my previous post, if you simply made the resale sites jointly and severally liable for fencing stolen goods, this outlet could be shut down quickly without much expense.

    Unfortunately I don't have authority. But I have contacted my local TDs about it.


  • #87
    Utter Consternation
    Registered Users Posts: 928 ✭✭✭Utter Consternation


    I was in a hardware store on Talbot Street today to buy chain for securing my bike. I was chatting to the lad in the shop and he was saying there's lads in vans driving around just picking bikes up off the streets and loading them up. Not just scumbag opportunists.

    He also said the cordless angle grinders from Lidl are being used to cut the chains. They'll cut through any chain.


  • #88
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Utter Consternation wrote: »
    I was in a hardware store on Talbot Street today to buy chain for securing my bike. I was chatting to the lad in the shop and he was saying there's lads in vans driving just picking bikes up off the streets and loading them up. Not just scumbag opportunists.

    He also said the cordless angle grinders from Lidl are being used to cut the chains. They'll cut through any chain.

    I heard similar over on Harcourt Street.

    But it still doesn't answer the question - where are they all going?

    FFS lads, the figures are 15000 bikes a year. That's the estimate. What happens to them all.


  • #89
    bladespin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,368 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    I heard similar over on Harcourt Street.

    But it still doesn't answer the question - where are they all going?

    FFS lads, the figures are 15000 bikes a year. That's the estimate. What happens to them all.

    Scrap metal for a large part, well the more day to day bikes that is, certain local communities were searched by the gardai a few years back and stockpiles running into hundreds were found, and I'm from a town, not a city.
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  • #90
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    bladespin wrote: »
    Scrap metal for a large part, well the more day to day bikes that is, certain local communities were searched by the gardai a few years back and stockpiles running into hundreds were found, and I'm from a town, not a city.

    Be a shame to see a €1000 road bike end up in that situation.


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  • #91
    bladespin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,368 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Be a shame to see a €1000 road bike end up in that situation.

    I'm sure many have, along with the child's precious bmx (just as big a shame), I doubt they're very discerning about what they take, probably worse, a carbon frame wouldn't be worth anything to them so they'd just break it up and bury it.
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  • #92
    shutup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 507 ✭✭✭shutup


    I have a friend who is a Garda. Lovely guy but I’ve always been suspicious of where he got his bikes. He has a good road bike and good mountain bike and when he was showing me he seemed nervous. Was completely over stressing how he used the bike to work for the road bike and got a good deal from a friend on the mountain bike. He must have said it twenty times.
    I wouldn’t have given it a second thought if he hadn’t protested so much.
    Now having seen the state of the bikes at the Garda auction I am convinced the Gaurds are keeping the good recovered bikes for themselves or at least getting first chance to buy them on the cheap.


  • #93
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    shutup wrote: »
    I have a friend who is a Garda. Lovely guy but I’ve always been suspicious of where he got his bikes. He has a good road bike and good mountain bike and when he was showing me he seemed nervous. Was completely over stressing how he used the bike to work for the road bike and got a good deal from a friend on the mountain bike. He must have said it twenty times.
    I wouldn’t have given it a second thought if he hadn’t protested so much.
    Now having seen the state of the bikes at the Garda auction I am convinced the Gaurds are keeping the good recovered bikes for themselves or at least getting first chance to buy them on the cheap.

    The gardai at local level I find very good, but obviously that can be hit an miss.

    However- the garda bike auctions …...its always a bit vague, I never see any notifications of these.


  • #94
    shutup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 507 ✭✭✭shutup


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    However- the garda bike auctions …...its always a bit vague, I never see any notifications of these.

    I just saw one about five years ago. Was so bad you wouldn’t have wanted anything on offer. Broken up bikes missing parts.
    With thousands of bikes stolen and not reunited with rightful owners how could they not have anything decent for sale? Very suspicious!!


  • #95
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    shutup wrote: »
    I just saw one about five years ago. Was so bad you wouldn’t have wanted anything on offer. Broken up bikes missing parts.
    With thousands of bikes stolen and not reunited with rightful owners how could they not have anything decent for sale? Very suspicious!!

    This would suggest same.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2057941901


  • #96
    The Davestator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,493 ✭✭✭The Davestator


    Would a log book similar to a car not work?
    I.e - Its illegal to sell or advertise a bike without a logbook number being entered?


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  • #97
    NasserShammaz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 886 ✭✭✭NasserShammaz


    https://lost.ie/bags-and-wallets/bags-other/bike-repair-kit-bag-tubes-tools-repair-kit-black


  • #98
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,534 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    The Davestator wrote: »
    Would a log book similar to a car not work?
    I.e - Its illegal to sell or advertise a bike without a logbook number being entered?
    I don't think that's practicable. How many bikes are there out there? How many have been thrown out when past their sell-by date? Who is going to manage all of this? Who is going to remember where they put their paperwork

    In theory it's all already there with frame numbers, but how many actually make a note of that, and how many of those can remember where they put it?

    At the top end I suspect owners are typically very careful, and maybe do record that sort of stuff. However if someone managed to nick a dozen €5k+ racing bikes it's not inconceivable they could find their way onto 2nd hand markets in other countries

    It works with cars as there are serious penalties for not having the records, and the likes of engine numbers are stored by relevant government authorities. Think of the GDPR requirements though when you are often talking under 18yos who "keep" the bikes

    Again there's the likes of bikeregister.com which is out there for people to record details, but who ever bothers checking there when they are buying a bike?

    Ultimately I think we are all too lazy/busy for something like that to have a serious impact

    Having said all of that, I think there will be increasingly innovative ways of incorporating trackers on bikes, and that would arguably be a much more straightforward way of "checking" bikes (although certainly not foolproof)


  • #99
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,462 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The Davestator wrote: »
    Would a log book similar to a car not work?
    I.e - Its illegal to sell or advertise a bike without a logbook number being entered?

    It's unworkable. Think of the number of bikes being bought and sold legitimately for €40 or €50. You'd be better off having a logbook for smart phones or laptops.


  • #100
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Beasty wrote: »
    I don't think that's practicable. How many bikes are there out there? How many have been thrown out when past their sell-by date? Who is going to manage all of this? Who is going to remember where they put their paperwork

    In theory it's all already there with frame numbers, but how many actually make a note of that, and how many of those can remember where they put it?

    At the top end I suspect owners are typically very careful, and maybe do record that sort of stuff. However if someone managed to nick a dozen €5k+ racing bikes it's not inconceivable they could find their way onto 2nd hand markets in other countries

    It works with cars as there are serious penalties for not having the records, and the likes of engine numbers are stored by relevant government authorities. Think of the GDPR requirements though when you are often talking under 18yos who "keep" the bikes

    Again there's the likes of bikeregister.com which is out there for people to record details, but who ever bothers checking there when they are buying a bike?

    Ultimately I think we are all too lazy/busy for something like that to have a serious impact

    Having said all of that, I think there will be increasingly innovative ways of incorporating trackers on bikes, and that would arguably be a much more straightforward way of "checking" bikes (although certainly not foolproof)

    Why is the fall back always on the owner for this.

    Shops don't have to record the registration number of the bikes they sell....

    The garda say a small percent of owners remember their registration number, but sure that is irrelevant if 99% of stolen bikes aren't retrieved by the gardai.....


  • #101
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,534 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Why is the fall back always on the owner for this.
    No different with any form of "insurance" - you get what you pay for. If you want retailers to manage all this, I'm sure they will do it - for a price


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