Where are all the stolen bikes going?

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 9:50am #1

I'm now at the point that I feel there is very little I can do prevent bikes being stolen. I've had five stolen, including locked bikes taken in a burglary and ulocked kryptonite locked bike taken in city centre.

Moreover, its been on my mind because its like 'surely something can be done' but in practice nothing is being done. Note this is not a rant at the Gardaí, I think they are excellent and were very supportive when the above incidents took place.

One thing for sure that is puzzling is - where are all the stolen bikes going. Nobody seems to know the answer to this. Its guess work.

One can only assume that its a possibility that at least some of the bikes being stolen each year are (I) being sold through the regular used good sites and (ii) through bike shops.

People can draw their own conclusions when browsing around the used goods sites as to whether particular sellers are bonafide - you just never know in a lot of cases.

However there is a very easy potential check......

Why is it that when a bike shop sells a bike, there is absolutely no requirement for them to record the unique serial code of that bike.

Why is that when an online site hosts a bike transaction there is absolutely no obligation on the seller to post the unique serial code of the bike.

It takes ten seconds to write this down; so you can hardly say that its much of an ask.

The bike shops have no problem with the paperwork requirements of the bike to work scheme, so I cant see why this would be an issue.

To give this some context - nobody knows the figure but there are circa 15000 bikes being stolen each year. The replacement value of these is really quite substantial and it causes huge inconvenience and upset for people.

Any thoughts on this?

23-10-2019 9:54am

If nobody buys a bike that is stolen, then no bike will be stolen. Owner has the duty to record serial number, but nobody I know does. I agree seller should show serial number, it's a good idea, but the thief won't, because you shouldn't know.

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 9:57am

Deleted User wrote: »

If nobody buys a bike that is stolen, then no bike will be stolen. Owner has the duty to record serial number, but nobody I know does. I agree seller should show serial number, it's a good idea, but the thief won't, because you shouldn't know.

Completely disagree.

Loads of people record the serial number, but it does no good whatsoever because it only comes into play when bike is identified as being stolen- and how can you identify a bike as being stolen.

You'd be better off buying a raffle ticket and paying for a new bike that way.

Utter Consternation · 23-10-2019 9:57am

Little scrotes are selling them to each other.

23-10-2019 10:04am

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Completely disagree.

Loads of people record the serial number, but it does no good whatsoever because it only comes into play when bike is identified as being stolen- and how can you identify a bike as being stolen.

You'd be better off buying a raffle ticket and paying for a new bike that way.

I don't understand which part you disagree.

Do you mean there is no data bases of stolen numbers? I understand that, so maybe it would not be difficult to make one?

caff · 23-10-2019 10:07am

They don't sell many of them in Ireland. Throw them I to shipping containers and export them for sale abroad.

https://garda-post.com/gardai-raid-theft-to-order-stolen-bike-operation-in-limerick/

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 10:13am

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand which part you disagree.

Do you mean there is no data bases of stolen numbers? I understand that, so maybe it would not be difficult to make one?

No.

What I mean more is -

If a seller is obliged to record the serial number of a bike as part of the advertisement and / or sale, then it puts pressure on them if they are selling stolen bikes. it makes it much more difficulty to sell a stolen bike.

At the moment, it is very easy to sell a stolen bike.

I know some of them are being shipped out - but not 10'000 of them....its some of them not all of them.

MrMusician18 · 23-10-2019 10:20am

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No.

What I mean more is -

If a seller is obliged to record the serial number of a bike as part of the advertisement and / or sale, then it puts pressure on them if they are selling stolen bikes. it makes it much more difficulty to sell a stolen bike.

At the moment, it is very easy to sell a stolen bike.

I know some of them are being shipped out - but not 10'000 of them....its some of them not all of them.

The professional gangs are exporting them as there is too much of a risk to their operation to sell locally. That's the vast majority of stolen bikes.

It's only the stupid opportunists that sell them here, and the even sillier that try and sell online.

Azizur Rahman · 23-10-2019 10:23am

A lot of Dublin city centre bike thefts are usually just sold on. Someone has a bike stolen, they don't see the point buying brand new incase it happens again, so go to a second hand seller and hey presto the cycle repeats.

magicbastarder · 23-10-2019 10:23am

given that canyon can track bikes - as per the other thread where a user was notificed by them of his bike being recovered - i wonder are they able to provide figures on where bikes are reported stolen vs. where they're recovered.
you'd think they'd be publicising such info, might sway some people towards canyon if they knew of that benefit.

gman2k · 23-10-2019 10:23am

My theory is that high end bikes are stripped, the parts exported and sold online.
There are a few sellers I used to keep an eye on Adverts, and I cannot understand how they are able to keep churning out high end parts for sale.
Especially if they are living in Dublin city centre and they are unlikely to have a large area to store all these bikes they seem to own, and they don't work in bike shops.

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 10:24am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The professional gangs are exporting them as there is too much of a risk to their operation to sell locally. That's the vast majority of stolen bikes.

It's only the stupid opportunists that sell them here, and the even sillier that try and sell online.

I am not saying you are wrong....and for sure this happens.

But what evidence is there to say this is a major outlet for bike theft.

If the figure is circa 15'000 for total bike theft - are you saying that 8-10'000 of these are being shipped out?

That's a lot of containers.

How can you say that more stolen bikes end up in containers than say in the stock rooms of second hand bike shops.

Not being smart, but its something you hear - they are being shipped out of the country.

One or two containers here and there is not the same as dozens of containers leaving every year.

caff · 23-10-2019 10:26am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The professional gangs are exporting them as there is too much of a risk to their operation to sell locally. That's the vast majority of stolen bikes.

It's only the stupid opportunists that sell them here, and the even sillier that try and sell online.

The Dutch are trying to get some kind of cross EU bike registration in place as its a massive problem there with gangs stealing bikes and shipping them out.

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 10:27am

gman2k wrote: »

My theory is that high end bikes are stripped, the parts exported and sold online.
There are a few sellers I used to keep an eye on Adverts, and I cannot understand how they are able to keep churning out high end parts for sale.
Especially if they are living in Dublin city centre and they are unlikely to have a large area to store all these bikes they seem to own, and they don't work in bike shops.

well exactly.

it really is quite remarkable.

always interesting to search terms like 'good bike' or 'pushbike' - no product detail given.

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 10:28am

magicbastarder wrote: »

given that canyon can track bikes - as per the other thread where a user was notificed by them of his bike being recovered - i wonder are they able to provide figures on where bikes are reported stolen vs. where they're recovered.
you'd think they'd be publicising such info, might sway some people towards canyon if they knew of that benefit.

Is that through a GPS?

23-10-2019 10:33am

gman2k wrote: »

My theory is that high end bikes are stripped, the parts exported and sold online.
There are a few sellers I used to keep an eye on Adverts, and I cannot understand how they are able to keep churning out high end parts for sale.
Especially if they are living in Dublin city centre and they are unlikely to have a large area to store all these bikes they seem to own, and they don't work in bike shops.

That always worries me. If you look through adverts.ie, you can see some sellers that always have full used groupsets for sale, wheels etc. If it was a seller that sold other items as well, i could understand it, but some seem to have a full blown used bike parts business in operation.

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 10:34am

Aegir wrote: »

That always worries me. If you look through adverts.ie, you can see some sellers that always have full used groupsets for sale, wheels etc. If it was a seller that sold other items as well, i could understand it, but some seem to have a full blown used bike parts business in operation.

and these are never bike shops.

Utter Consternation · 23-10-2019 10:38am

caff wrote: »

They don't sell many of them in Ireland. Throw them I to shipping containers and export them for sale abroad.

https://garda-post.com/gardai-raid-theft-to-order-stolen-bike-operation-in-limerick/

Where are they shipped off to i wonder? I always surmised it was not organised crime that bothered with it.

magicbastarder · 23-10-2019 10:39am

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Is that through a GPS?

IIRC, the bike was stolen, the gardai recovered it and sent the serial number to canyon to request what details they had on it. canyon contacted the owner to say the gardai had the bike, but because of data protection issues they could not give the gardai the info requested.

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 10:47am

magicbastarder wrote: »

IIRC, the bike was stolen, the gardai recovered it and sent the serial number to canyon to request what details they had on it. canyon contacted the owner to say the gardai had the bike, but because of data protection issues they could not give the gardai the info requested.

OK understood.

So the problem I see here is that for every 100 bikes that are stolen, only probably 5 will be recovered by the gardai …..lets say. I cant imagine its much more than that.

So on the 5% chance that the gardai retrieve your bike, then yes the serial number comes into play.

in the meantime, what happens to the other part - the 95% that the gardai don't recover. That's the bit I'm interested in. How can we make it harder to sell these - because ultimately what people are stealing its not bikes - its "near cash".....they steal anything that is easy to exchange for cash. And it just so happens that bikes are extremely easy to exchange for cash. That's the bit that needs to change.

magicbastarder · 23-10-2019 11:01am

i was at a dublin cycling campaign meeting a year or two back, where gardai were there to talk about bike theft. only 11% of bike theft victims were able to provide the serial number of the bike.

caff · 23-10-2019 11:05am

Utter Consternation wrote: »

Where are they shipped off to i wonder? I always surmised it was not organised crime that bothered with it.

Well one gang was shipping to Morocco https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/bike-brand-tracks-one-customers-stolen-bike-ends-exposing-international-368537

irlirishkev · 23-10-2019 12:30pm

You know the scrotey little maggots who pull wheelies against oncoming traffic and at pedestrians on footpaths.. I often wonder why so many of their bikes are waaaay too big for them..

Weepsie · 23-10-2019 12:34pm

There was a meeting in Glasnevin last night about bike theft called by a local Green Counciller. Not sure how it went as I was in work

lissard · 23-10-2019 12:53pm

I posted this on the stolen bikes thread about a year ago. It answers some of the questions the OP raised.

My bike which was stolen in in May 2018 popped up when I did a search on Adverts In October 2018. I bookmarked the page, headed down to the Garda station and showed them the seller profile. To put it mildly it was suspicious - nearly 100 bikes in the the withdrawn state and 6 current ads. Anyhow, to cut a long story short the Gardai came through for me. They set up a sting - made an offer on the bike and arrested the guy for possession of stolen property when he turned up with my bike. Having the serial number and a service history of every component on the bike left them in no doubt that it was mine. BTW they didn't think that this guy was the one that carried out the original theft.

My takeaways from all this:
1. If it looks too good to be true on Donedeal/Adverts - it's probably stolen. There are a large number of sellers that fall into this category.
2. Keep your serial number handy.
3. Having good service records makes it so much easier for the Gardai to act.
4. In the months after the bike is nicked do a periodic scan of the websites. In my case the bike was stolen in May and posted for sale in September.
5. Once you give the Gardai the tools to trap the thieves they're more than happy to do so.

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 1:16pm

lissard wrote: »

I posted this on the stolen bikes thread about a year ago. It answers some of the questions the OP raised.

My bike which was stolen in in May 2018 popped up when I did a search on Adverts In October 2018. I bookmarked the page, headed down to the Garda station and showed them the seller profile. To put it mildly it was suspicious - nearly 100 bikes in the the withdrawn state and 6 current ads. Anyhow, to cut a long story short the Gardai came through for me. They set up a sting - made an offer on the bike and arrested the guy for possession of stolen property when he turned up with my bike. Having the serial number and a service history of every component on the bike left them in no doubt that it was mine. BTW they didn't think that this guy was the one that carried out the original theft.

My takeaways from all this:
1. If it looks too good to be true on Donedeal/Adverts - it's probably stolen. There are a large number of sellers that fall into this category.
2. Keep your serial number handy.
3. Having good service records makes it so much easier for the Gardai to act.
4. In the months after the bike is nicked do a periodic scan of the websites. In my case the bike was stolen in May and posted for sale in September.
5. Once you give the Gardai the tools to trap the thieves they're more than happy to do so.

Thats really interesting on a number of fronts.

(I) that it took so long to hit Adverts.
(II) a lot of people look in the for sale sections, or in the sold section.

More items in Adverts seem to be 'Withdrawn' than 'Sold' even after a transaction appears to have been conducted (i.e. offer made, pms sent etc) - so always look in the Withdrawn section also.

Other point - this notion that 'the gardai are doing nothing' really annoys me.

I do think the spotlight needs to be elsewhere - particular on the people who act as distributors of bikes.

As mentioned - if Adverts/ DoneDeal made it a requirement to post a serial code for any bike being advertised, if bike shops had to record the serial code for every bike they sold - I think we would see a very sharp drop in bike thefts.

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 1:22pm

Some interesting stats.

There are currently 6873 bikes for sale on adverts (under the bikes section, more in toy section etc).

There are 35000 'Withdrawn' bikes.

There are 44000 sold bikes.

That is some amount of volume.

machaseh · 23-10-2019 1:23pm

My solution is: I use old, uncomfortable second hand bikes.

I'd love to get a more expensive, better racing bike. But in my apartment I just don't have the room to store it inside, and if I store it outside it is 100% likely to get stolen or at least for the most important parts to get stolen.

Bot1 · 23-10-2019 1:36pm

Eastern Europe I was told by a Guard

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2019 2:10pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i was at a dublin cycling campaign meeting a year or two back, where gardai were there to talk about bike theft. only 11% of bike theft victims were able to provide the serial number of the bike.

But again I would almost say why does that matter.

The only way it matters is if the bike is identified by features other than the serial code, and as such is identified as being stolen.

I have the serial codes on the all my bikes that were stolen. They aren't a damn bit of use to me except on the off-chance I find it for sale somewhere. And what am I supposed to do?

If on the other hand bike shops had to identify the serial code, if sellers on the used good sites had to display the serial codes when selling - then it would be a lot more evident if said bike was a my one.

I do think there is a lot of people out there that - while they wouldn't steal a bike themselves, they'll quite happily buy a bike at a good price with no questions asked.

machaseh · 23-10-2019 2:10pm

I havent had it in Dublin yet, but in the Netherlands it was common that there would be a junkie at the train station late at night, selling (clearly stolen) bikes for 20 quid.

Once, in fact, I actually stole my own bike back. Some junkie had nicked my bike from the station, when I walked home (without me bike) I suddenly saw a bike parked somewhere that looked familiar. It was my own, but it was completely destroyed by the junkie sadly.

Where are all the stolen bikes going?

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