Ryanair - New reserved seating structure(s)

degsie · 02-06-2017 8:09am

irishman86 wrote: »

Because these arent in any way the same. In a ferry its first come first serve, the restaurant one has already been proven just stupid (You reserved a table) and the car one well I didnt think you get a worse example than restaurant but you did well done

Ok then mr narky pants, how about going to the cinema or a football game where you reserve seats?

cruhoortwunk · 02-06-2017 8:51am

I think the main problem is they are taking away something that people had been used to getting for free. It's never good thing to start charging for something that was free/included.

daisy123 · 02-06-2017 9:02am

degsie wrote: »

Not an obsession, just social norm. If you go to a restaurant do you sit together? Or on a ferry? Or when travelling in the same car?

Not necessarily on the ferry. Often would leave my fellow travellers to do things...BY MYSELF! In a car...eh, there's limited choice, but I wouldn't always get the seat I wanted...but by the nature of a car I wouldn't be nearby.

I often do split ticketing rail journeys in the UK. My travel companion/s and I may not get assigned seats together for all legs. But because it's cheaper, I don't care. I'm able to entertain myself for a short time. Even 4-5 hours!! Which is also a short flight.

Maybe I'm weird because I don't mind sitting on my own. Some of the best conversations I've had on a flight was with a stranger beside me about our destination. I read a book, have snacks, do puzzles. I don't even check anymore where people are sitting. I treat it like getting a bus. Where you often don't get seats together.

Anyway, I guess people are different.

grogi · 02-06-2017 9:03am

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

I think the main problem is they are taking away something that people had been used to getting for free. It's never good thing to start charging for something that was free/included.

I don't think so.

If they took the free water away (if they ever offered it at any time), people would not be delighted, but would rather understand it. Water costs, flying it costs etc... If they took away the second charge-free hand luggage - there would not be excitement around it, but again it would be somehow justified (transporting weight costs fuel). Food on board, airport check-in, luggage, boarding through the bridge - taken away, but all somehow cuts cost. Even charging for seats in better rows - as they are in short supply - can be justified.

But not this.

What happened here is a "new service" was invented - that did cost absolutely nothing to offer - and people are charged for it now. This service is not to cut costs - it actually costs Ryanair money. Introducing this service costed Ryanair money (all the IT costs associated with it), it costs money to run it (THERE WILL BE increase in boarding time because of this nonsense) and that service does not increase the quality of the service (comparing to what was there before). So the only rationale to introduce it is to bully the customers and grab more money than the increased cost. Pay or we will split you up. It is like "protection" offered by the mob.

And that is what pisses people off.

Sure - Ryanair can do it, I cannot directly stop Ryanair from doing it. But nobody can stop me from expressing how pissed I am at that. And I will try my best not to leave my money with a company that is using tactics like that, even if it costs me more to fly with someone who is a partner. If I have to, I'll play dumb and stupid, maybe not even speak English well. Because that is what Ryanair is expecting me to be - an idiot...

Bob24 · 02-06-2017 9:27am

daisy123 wrote: »

Maybe I'm weird because I don't mind sitting on my own. Some of the best conversations I've had on a flight was with a stranger beside me about our destination. I read a book, have snacks, do puzzles. I don't even check anymore where people are sitting. I treat it like getting a bus. Where you often don't get seats together.

Anyway, I guess people are different.

I don't mind either, but because some people don't mind is not the same as saying that it is not a social norm to seat together or that a majority of people don't prefer to sit together.

Let me put it that way: if you were travelling with a friend, family member or colleague, would you tell them "I prefer sitting next to strangers during flight so lets pick non-adjacent seats"? Wouldn't you feel you would be breaking a social norm?

EverythingGood · 02-06-2017 9:32am

I've had times where I have paid for my seat, and that of the wife, if she is with me, and some random person was beside us, and that persons partner was sat elsewhere. I've been asked to move to accommodate someone else, so they could sit beside each other, but generally say no. I've paid for my seat, I've deliberately chosen that particular place to sit, so no, I am not moving, especially from a good aisle seat to a crap middle seat half way down the aisle, when my bag is directly overhead. I've had dirty looks and noises made at me my other passengers then for staying put, in a seat that I've paid for! And that's the danger here, asking people to move seats with you, but what if that person has paid for their seat? Will you give them a few bob? If you do, why not pay for seats in the first place?

grogi · 02-06-2017 9:36am

EverythingGood wrote: »

I've had times where I have paid for my seat, and that of the wife, if she is with me, and some random person was beside us, and that persons partner was sat elsewhere. I've been asked to move to accommodate someone else, so they could sit beside each other, but generally say no.

They are asking you, not telling you - that is the difference. Even if you didn't pay for that seat, you are absolutely in your rights to tell them No. It is their problem, not yours.

EverythingGood · 02-06-2017 9:38am

grogi wrote: »

They are asking you, not telling you - that is the difference. Even if you didn't pay for that seat, you are absolutely in your rights to tell them No. It is their problem, not yours.

True, I did say ask, but some people "ask" in such a way that they think they are entitled to move a solo traveller, because it suits them. And then are offended when you say no.

Bob24 · 02-06-2017 9:44am

EverythingGood wrote: »

True, I did say ask, but some people "ask" in such a way that they think they are entitled to move a solo traveller, because it suits them. And then are offended when you say no.

Yes and by voluntarily splitting-out passengers if they don't pay Ryanair will increase the occurence for these awkward situations.

They will annoy both the passengers who didn't pay to sit together and the ones who paid but keep being asked to give up the seat they paid for and getting dirty looks when they say no.

munchkin_utd · 02-06-2017 10:26am

its now news in the paper today that they are sitting people separate from each other if they dont shell out for seats.
http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/ryanair-introduces-60day-advance-checkin-but-theres-a-catch-35780869.html

Pre-booked seats cost €2 for rows 6-15 and 18-33, €7 for rows 2 (A,B,C) to 5, and €11 for extra legroom rows 1, 2 (D,E,F) and 16-17.

To be fair, their prices are way less than what Aer Lingus is charging. They look for €20 for an exit row or €13 for a place near the front.

degsie · 02-06-2017 10:47am

From that article...

This week, Ryanair announced that its full year profits had risen 6pc to over €1.3 billion, with its average fares down 13pc to €41.

They must be doing something right.

MOH · 02-06-2017 11:07am

There's a very simple solution. Ryanair should just add a blanket €15 to every flight. Then offer an option not to sit together, which comes with a €15 discount. Problem solved, everyone is happy. :rolleyes:

mattser · 02-06-2017 11:18am

degsie wrote: »

From that article...

They must be doing something right.

Despite the whingers, but sure they're the ones that would whinge anyway.

irishman86 · 02-06-2017 11:53am

degsie wrote: »

Ok then mr narky pants, how about going to the cinema or a football game where you reserve seats?

You are proving my point

read what you wrote. Thanks for more examples proving my point

Fred Swanson · 02-06-2017 11:53am

This post has been deleted.

Bob24 · 02-06-2017 11:55am

mattser wrote: »

Despite the whingers, but sure they're the ones that would whinge anyway.

Keep in mind their policy of the years leading to these financial results has been to do away with this type of things. Yes something they were doing right, so they shouldn't reverse the trend.

irishman86 · 02-06-2017 11:57am

EverythingGood wrote: »

I've had times where I have paid for my seat, and that of the wife, if she is with me, and some random person was beside us, and that persons partner was sat elsewhere. I've been asked to move to accommodate someone else, so they could sit beside each other, but generally say no. I've paid for my seat, I've deliberately chosen that particular place to sit, so no, I am not moving, especially from a good aisle seat to a crap middle seat half way down the aisle, when my bag is directly overhead. I've had dirty looks and noises made at me my other passengers then for staying put, in a seat that I've paid for! And that's the danger here, asking people to move seats with you, but what if that person has paid for their seat? Will you give them a few bob? If you do, why not pay for seats in the first place?

That could happen just as easily before though, say a late check in and couple split then they would ask you all the same.
Most people will just sit down by themselfs for 3-6 hours and not ask you to leave

irishman86 · 02-06-2017 11:59am

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes and by voluntarily splitting-out passengers if they don't pay Ryanair will increase the occurence for these awkward situations.

They will annoy both the passengers who didn't pay to sit together and the ones who paid but keep being asked to give up the seat they paid for and getting dirty looks when they say no.

And people should stop feeling so entitled and get the **** over it. Are we all so pampered that someone saying nah buddy I like this seat is a big deal

FreddyGotFried · 02-06-2017 12:00pm

Myself and my 7year old were seated at opposite ends of the plane on flights to and from Liverpool last week.
Presumably, in the event of a cabin depressurization it would have been up to the randomer beside him to affix his oxygen mask.
I also presume when they announce that small children should be accompanied when disembarking down the steps, they mean a random stranger should do this. I mean it's not like a small child has ever fallen when disembarking one of their aircraft before.

I've taken this up with the Commission for Aviation Regulation and I would suggest anyone else with similar concerns to do so to. This is a Health and Safety issue which trumps Ryanair's desire to squeeze families for a few extra euro.

Bob24 · 02-06-2017 12:01pm

irishman86 wrote: »

That could happen just as easily before though, say a late check in and couple split then they would ask you all the same.

It could have happened, but definitely not "as easily". When you seat allocation algorithm is tweaked to change from attempting to seat people next to each other whenever possible to attempting not to seat people next to each other whenever possible, clearly you are going to cause dozen times more situations whereby people try to swap seats.

munchkin_utd · 02-06-2017 12:09pm

FreddyGotFried wrote: »

Myself and my 7year old were seated at opposite ends of the plane on flights to and from Liverpool last week.<snip>

when did you book those flights? Ages ago ?

Since not so long ago (March I think) its simply not possible to book a flight for kids without paying for specific seats, so I presume you have an old booking which was seatless, and with the new checkin you have to pay to sit together.

Definitely bring it up as if your 7 year old was split from you then it would be the same for a baby of 2 years and a day which is bonkers.

Bob24 · 02-06-2017 12:13pm

irishman86 wrote: »

And people should stop feeling so entitled and get the **** over it. Are we all so pampered that someone saying nah buddy I like this seat is a big deal

What is wrong with people thinking they are entitled for a certain quality of service as a customer and choosing not to be customers anymore if it doesn't get delivered? Is your view that Ryanair is entitled to keeping its customers no matter how it treats them?

Here's the deal: you think it is OK to be charged for a seat and then having to endure people constantly moving around you and giving you accusatory looks if you refuse to swap. Great if this is not a problem for you at all and won't affect your decision to use Ryanair whatsoever.

For me (and others) it is a problem which is not a deal breaker but on which I put a price (lets say 10 euros per segment). That price is how much more I am ready to pay to make the same journey with another airline which doesn't cause me those troubles. There are other issues which increase that price differential: for exemple with Ryanair the probability of not being able to stow your cabin luggage next to you or to be forced to put in in the hold is much higher than with most other airlines.

Over the years my use of Ryanair has fluctuated depending not only on the raw pricing of their tickets compared to their competition but also on that price differential I apply (to make it clear I don't make detailed calculations as I have better things to do, but based on my experience in the past year the difference I am ready to accept lets say between Ryanair and Aer Lingus fluctuates over time and comes naturally when I book tickets). This is the reason I almost stoped using Ryanair in 2011-2014 - the differential was so high due to crap experiences that I never chose them anymore even when they were a good bit cheaper. And also the reason I started using them again around 2015 (I could clearly see they had made some changes to improve customer experience).

FreddyGotFried · 02-06-2017 12:22pm

when did you book those flights? Ages ago ?

Yeah, we booked the flights last year. The seats beside was unoccupied when i got on so I was able to move him beside me anyway.

I didn't realise they are now charging parents with children as a matter of course. That's surely discriminatory.

km79 · 02-06-2017 12:26pm

FreddyGotFried wrote: »

when did you book those flights? Ages ago ?

Yeah, we booked the flights last year. The seats beside was unoccupied when i got on so I was able to move him beside me anyway.

I didn't realise they are now charging parents with children as a matter of course. That's surely discriminatory.

Yes when you see the amount of people complaining now about being separated from another ADULT then this purchasing of seats and swapping of seats when onboard then it really should be mandatory for all or none ......

munchkin_utd · 02-06-2017 12:32pm

FreddyGotFried wrote: »

<snip>
I didn't realise they are now charging parents with children as a matter of course. That's surely discriminatory.

no, now everyone gets charged if they want to sit together, just parents and kids have to pay earlier.
Kids get their seats for free so if anything its discrimination in favour of kids not against them

FreddyGotFried · 02-06-2017 12:40pm

It's forcing a parent to pay extra.

Its discriminatory.

EverythingGood · 02-06-2017 12:41pm

FreddyGotFried wrote: »

It's forcing a parent to pay extra.

Its discriminatory.

or it is ensuring that families are seated together.

grogi · 02-06-2017 12:43pm

EverythingGood wrote: »

or it is ensuring that families are seated together.

Somehow they were able to ensure it before without any issues...

I don't have issue with paying for RESERVING the seat you like and accepting the fact that if the circumstances prevent it, you will not be seated together. But what Ryanair is doing is purposely decreasing the quality of the service, unless you pay them not to do it. That I find highly unethical and wrong.

I gave you the example of screaming headrests. Maybe we need to pay more so that flight attendants wear clean cloths that not stink? Maybe we need to pay extra for the plane not to be late?

FreddyGotFried · 02-06-2017 12:50pm

Never previously was forced to pay to be seated with my child.

It's a new discriminatory policy to shake down parents for a few extra euros and it's quite frankly disgraceful.

Hopefully the Commission will take action.

Jayop · 02-06-2017 1:41pm

irishman86 wrote: »

And people should stop feeling so entitled and get the **** over it. Are we all so pampered that someone saying nah buddy I like this seat is a big deal

We get it, it doesn't bother you.

It does bother others and they're entitled to be bothered without someone being belligerent towards them.

EverythingGood · 02-06-2017 1:42pm

FreddyGotFried wrote: »

Never previously was forced to pay to be seated with my child.

It's a new discriminatory policy to shake down parents for a few extra euros and it's quite frankly disgraceful.

Hopefully the Commission will take action.

They'v no grounds to take action.

FreddyGotFried · 02-06-2017 1:48pm

We'll leave that for the Commission to decide I think.

irishman86 · 02-06-2017 2:13pm

Jayop wrote: »

We get it, it doesn't bother you.

It does bother others and they're entitled to be bothered without someone being belligerent towards them.

Im not being belligerent, the people havent a clue how basic economy works. I tried in a dumbed down way explaining it. It doesnt bother most people more empty vessels make the most noise people who get worked up over stupid stuff

miamee · 02-06-2017 3:31pm

irishman86 wrote: »

Im not being belligerent, the people havent a clue how basic economy works. I tried in a dumbed down way explaining it. It doesnt bother most people more empty vessels make the most noise people who get worked up over stupid stuff

I think we all understand basic economy. We all also understand how goodwill and customer service work and in this case, if views on this thread are representative of views of the majority of Ryanair customers then the one is damaging the other with this new move regardless of how much money it makes in the short term. Bad customer vibes generate less revenue, not more.

Masala · 02-06-2017 3:40pm

The concept of paying €2 for a seat number is wrong.

Paying €10 to go to the cinema (or a restaurant / a show) and then say 50¢ to choose your seat is alien to the service industry.

My concern is (as per all Ryanair fees)... it starts as €2 and then once bedded in goes to €5 / €7 / €8 / €10.

The concept that a 'couple' cant be seated together WHEN there are seats free to accommodate is just 'mean-spirited'. If enough passengers complain/ insist that they need to sit together and eventually delays kick in .... then Ryanair might realize that this has back fired.

MOH · 02-06-2017 3:43pm

FreddyGotFried wrote: »

It's forcing a parent to pay extra.

Its discriminatory.

It's not.

Exactly the same arguments were made when they stopped giving free hold luggage. People complained that they couldn't manage on holidays with hand luggage only if they had kids, and so it was discriminatory against parents.

Meanwhile anyone who didn't have kids and could manage with hand luggage ended up getting cheaper flights, instead of having to subsidise other people's baggage.

It's a revenue increasing exercise. They're looking for increased revenue from somewhere, if it wasn't this, it'd be something else anyway.
People who aren't bothered don't have to pay extra. People who are bothered have a fairly cheap solution.

FreddyGotFried · 02-06-2017 3:48pm

One is an optional payment the other is not.

That is why it 'IS' discriminatory.

Fred Swanson · 02-06-2017 3:48pm

This post has been deleted.

irishman86 · 02-06-2017 3:58pm

miamee wrote: »

I think we all understand basic economy. We all also understand how goodwill and customer service work and in this case, if views on this thread are representative of views of the majority of Ryanair customers then the one is damaging the other with this new move regardless of how much money it makes in the short term. Bad customer vibes generate less revenue, not more.

Well I take the views here lightly, you are more likely to post a negative review than a positive one

Masala wrote: »

The concept of paying ?2 for a seat number is wrong.

Paying ?10 to go to the cinema (or a restaurant / a show) and then say 50? to choose your seat is alien to the service industry.

My concern is (as per all Ryanair fees)... it starts as ?2 and then once bedded in goes to ?5 / ?7 / ?8 / ?10.

The concept that a 'couple' cant be seated together WHEN there are seats free to accommodate is just 'mean-spirited'. If enough passengers complain/ insist that they need to sit together and eventually delays kick in .... then Ryanair might realize that this has back fired.

So the cinema example is either you buy your tickets and are allocated a seat number or its fcfs. If you buy your tickets and seats werent available together would you still buy two and ask people to move, the answer is no
In first come first serve you will sit where ever there is available seats if none are together do you ask people to move for your happiness thus delaying the start of the movie.
I dont think you guys realise how rude it is to demand others to move to suit you, refuse to sit unless you are with your partner etc etc etc

Jayop · 02-06-2017 3:59pm

I've not once said I would ask someone to move, nor would I ever do so.

Maybe your assumptions are stupid?

irishman86 · 02-06-2017 4:00pm

Jayop wrote: »

You're calling people stupid over and over as well as dismissing what people hold as valid criticism. You're being belligerent.

Whom did I call stupid, I dont know ye. I said examples given were stupid and showed why I felt that way. I would never call someone stupid.
I am dismissing the criticism as just like you except in the opposite I feel its wrong.

degsie · 02-06-2017 4:01pm

Hey, popcorn time...

irishman86 · 02-06-2017 4:02pm

Jayop wrote: »

I've not once said I would ask someone to move, nor would I ever do so.

Maybe your assumptions are stupid?

You see you are insulting, Im not doing that. I only would have said something replying to you, did you say you asked someone to move

Jayop · 02-06-2017 4:05pm

irishman86 wrote: »

You see you are insulting, Im not doing that. I only would have said something replying to you, did you say you asked someone to move

I'm insulting, yet you've posted...

Originally Posted by irishman86 View Post
And people should stop feeling so entitled and get the **** over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishman86 View Post
Your examples are beyond stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishman86 View Post
if you want to be out money to prove a stupid point well that says a lot

Bob24 · 02-06-2017 4:09pm

Jayop wrote: »

I'm insulting, yet you've posted...

Originally Posted by irishman86 View Post
And people should stop feeling so entitled and get the **** over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishman86 View Post
Your examples are beyond stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishman86 View Post
if you want to be out money to prove a stupid point well that says a lot

You don't get it Jayop.

When certain people say this, it is not insulting/belligerent because these people are right and others are stupid.

But if these others people say the same thing back it is insulting because in that case the person saying it is wrong and the other person feels they are entitled for the respect they don't give to others due to their superiority.

irishman86 · 02-06-2017 4:10pm

Jayop wrote: »

I'm insulting, yet you've posted...

Originally Posted by irishman86 View Post
And people should stop feeling so entitled and get the **** over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishman86 View Post
Your examples are beyond stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishman86 View Post
if you want to be out money to prove a stupid point well that says a lot

Where do I insult anyone there

You can say a point is stupid if its stupid, calling people entitled is hardly a insult
I have each time commented on a post not the poster.
Lets say I head over to the pregnancy area and start commenting on stuff, Im sure I would quickly be called out for being in way over my head

Jayop · 02-06-2017 4:12pm

Aye OK, whatever your think yourself. I'll leave it there with you because you're not worth picking up a card over tbh.

irishman86 · 02-06-2017 4:12pm

Bob24 wrote: »

You don't get it Jayop.

When certain people say this, it is not insulting/belligerent because these people are right and others are stupid.

But these others people say the same thing back it is insulting because in that case the person saying it is wrong and the other person feels they are entitled for the respect they don't give to others due to their superiority.

Ah pretension got to love it. Nothing I said was a insult to think it was says a lot more about you guys than me. Just because my opinion a person on the internet affects you and you take it as a insult doesnt mean it is.

irishman86 · 02-06-2017 4:14pm

Jayop wrote: »

Aye OK, whatever your think yourself. I'll leave it there with you because you're not worth picking up a card over tbh.

Why would we possibly get a card over this, I havent taken anything you said as a insult and I explained how I wasnt insulting you guys. Just like you think Im wrong, I think ye are wrong

Masala · 02-06-2017 4:14pm

irishman86 wrote: »

Well I take the views here lightly, you are more likely to post a negative review than a positive one

So the cinema example is either you buy your tickets and are allocated a seat number or its fcfs. If you buy your tickets and seats werent available together would you still buy two and ask people to move, the answer is no
In first come first serve you will sit where ever there is available seats if none are together do you ask people to move for your happiness thus delaying the start of the movie.
I dont think you guys realise how rude it is to demand others to move to suit you, refuse to sit unless you are with your partner etc etc etc

I have no problem in fcfs. That was the way in Ryanair- hence the long queues in the Departures. If you want to sit together- you queued early. All Happy!

My problem now is Ryanair have taken away the fcfs option which is fine BUT deliberately go out of their way to endure you dont sit together unless you pay extra. So...in the above example I get to the cinema early and despite no-one else in the theater - I must pay extra to sit with my spouse. Otherwise - I must sit where they allocate me which is deliberately away from each other. I must be stupid....cos I cant see how that makes sense.

I am prepared to take a chance ...if I cant be seated together - then so be it. BUT TO DELIBERATELY separate me from my spouse cos I wont pay a fee is just pure mean and small minded.

Ryanair - New reserved seating structure(s)

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