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Air BnB to be effectively banned for non PPR

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24567…17

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    #32
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Hogzy wrote: »
    Unreal to see all the tourism experts on here. They must have put hours of research into tourism spending habits, affordability etc in multiple cities in Europe as well as Dublin. Fair play to ye lads!

    Maybe one as learned as yourself could provide some imput on the following.
    Air bnb gets banned - less competition for hotels - price of hotels goes up - tourists look elsewhere for better value.
    Your wisdom is greatly appreciated.
    Not to worry about filling hotels in Dublin though, the government is flat out paying for rooms for Roma gypsies that turn up and ​declare as homeless! Free hotel on us. Sod the tourists and their money!


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    #33
    Hogzy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    enricoh wrote: »
    Maybe one as learned as yourself could provide some imput on the following.
    Air bnb gets banned - less competition for hotels - price of hotels goes up - tourists look elsewhere for better value.

    Its not getting banned. It seems to be suggested that only properties that are not principle private residences and do not have the requiste planning permission for short term lets are going to be prevented from letting on airbnb. They can still take in a long term tenant.
    Not to worry about filling hotels in Dublin though, the government is flat out paying for rooms for Roma gypsies that turn up and declare as homeless!
    Do you have examples of this occurring ad nausem or is it just was it just a rare occasion that you are now using to argue as the norm?
    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    There's no right to make a profit. But it's not wrong to make a profit.
    In fact it's a requirement for any business.

    Totally agree with you. But such a profit should be made without breaking the law (ie. planning legislation).


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    #34
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Varik wrote: »
    Article says otherwise.

    Much of the discussion is about the "Toronto model":
    3. HOST = OPERATOR = PRINCIPAL RESIDENCE
    What Airbnb calls a “host,” the city calls an operator. The point is, if you’re renting your home it has to be your principal residence.


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    #35
    Bigmac1euro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    enricoh wrote: »
    Maybe one as learned as yourself could provide some imput on the following.
    Air bnb gets banned - less competition for hotels - price of hotels goes up - tourists look elsewhere for better value.
    Your wisdom is greatly appreciated.
    Not to worry about filling hotels in Dublin though, the government is flat out paying for rooms for Roma gypsies that turn up and ​declare as homeless! Free hotel on us. Sod the tourists and their money!

    How do you think we managed without Airbnb In the first place ?
    Ireland will always attract tourism. Have you ever been to Dublin City centre ? It’s more important that we get more rental properties on the market not less of them through Airbnb and have a few tourists to spend on a few pints of Guinness. I’m not trying to be rude here but I really don’t understand where your coming from on this.


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    #36
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,913 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    zell12 wrote:
    When will Revenue move to extract tax from the Airbnb lettings? And when will Councils enforce the planning change of use regulations? They've had years.


    Revenue get notified by Airbnb of how much they pay each individual landlord. Revenue get every single penny owed from Airbnb landlords. There is no room to fiddle this income. It's was the only socially positive thing about Airbnb.


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    #37
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Hogzy wrote: »
    I dont understand this mindset that if you mortgage a house and rent it you are somehow entitled to break even or profit from such a venture! What gives you this right???


    I know in my case I have been chugging along letting property for almost 2 decades. There were bad times and good times and you would think they should even out over the long term.
    The problem now is that the might of the state keeps sticking their oar in over and over again to hurt anyone letting. And they just keep doing it.

    I had had enough earlier this year, but there are people who were sticking it out. I bet they will all be out the door now. And no one in their right minds will be in to replace them.

    Basically the normal property investor has been slowly but surely taken advantage of and been pushed out of the business.
    Im just surprised there is anyone left in it at this stage.


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    #38
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Hogzy wrote: »
    If your property has planning for holiday lettings then you are fine. Having a house solely dedicated to Airbnb's without proper planning permission is illegal. So yes, some landlords are being arrogant and entitled by thinking they can flagrantly ignore community planning rules by allowing their property to be let in such a way.

    In fairness many landlords have taken a battering over the last 10 years, financially, legislatively and PR wise.

    I can't blame a landlord for wanting to opt-out of the pretty one sided residential tenancy legislation and associated 'supports'.

    At the same time, I think it would be a pretty naive property owner/investor that expected the current approach to AirBnB type lettings to continue unfettered.


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    #39
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    I know in my case I have been chugging along letting property for almost 2 decades. There were bad times and good times and you would think they should even out over the long term.
    The problem now is that the might of the state keeps sticking their oar in over and over again to hurt anyone letting. And they just keep doing it.

    I had had enough earlier this year, but there are people who were sticking it out. I bet they will all be out the door now. And no one in their right minds will be in to replace them.

    Basically the normal property investor has been slowly but surely taken advantage of and been pushed out of the business.
    Im just surprised there is anyone left in it at this stage.

    Vulture funds and property management agencies will be the only ones left.

    Most of the landlords I know are only in the position because it doesn't suit them to sell.


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    #40
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Do you have examples of this occurring ad nausem or is it just was it just a rare occasion that you are now using to argue as the norm?



    [/quote]in all the charity referred families on 46 occasions that month. Nine of the families were Romanian nationals; 15 were Irish, including eight from the Travelling community; and three were from outside the European Union.

    Maybe we should be promoting Ireland as a holiday destination a lot more in Romania. Seems to have great potential for us!


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    #41
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Unreal, but the communists appear to have gotten their way.
    No more Air BnB unless you rent a room in your own dwelling.

    Can't understand how FG thinks this will help them come election time.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/airbnb-regulations-ireland-3-4259732-Sep2018/

    Happy days. House joined on to me won't be an unlicenced hotel any more. Who's responsible so i can make sure to get them some votes come election time?


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    #42
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Vulture funds and property management agencies will be the only ones left.

    Most of the landlords I know are only in the position because it doesn't suit them to sell.


    True. I have stopped letting but not sold because it doesn't suit me.
    Letting is far too risky now. And the red tape and potential downside is horrible.

    I was keeping it for kids going to college in the next few years and as a crash pad for when im in Dublin or my friends are in Dublin at the moment.
    I was at one point thinking of doing Airbnb as a sideline but decided not to.
    I do love Airbnb and use it all the time rather than hotels now when traveling.

    There are other options though to make money from the property and Ive been going with one of them since the start of the year, but I am never letting it again under current conditions for sure.


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    #43
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,460 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Vulture funds and property management agencies will be the only ones left.

    Most of the landlords I know are only in the position because it doesn't suit them to sell.

    Those that can sell will sell, others will claim PPR.

    It will make NO difference to rental sector.


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    #44
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,933 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    You'd have to be pretty naive to think that banning AirBnb will result in these houses going back into the rental market. Most will just be sold at this stage. There's no business model there for a small scale landlord, and government ends up losing out on tax as the larger scale ones don't pay the same tax.

    Genius move by the clowns in government.


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    #45
    zell12
    Registered Users Posts: 23,552 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Revenue get notified by Airbnb of how much they pay each individual landlord. Revenue get every single penny owed from Airbnb landlords. There is no room to fiddle this income. It's was the only socially positive thing about Airbnb.
    Not yet though
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revenue-warns-12000-hosts-pay-tax-on-airbnb-income-or-face-courts-37331984.html


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    #46
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    Those that can sell will sell, others will claim PPR.

    Devil will be in the detail.

    Trying to claim PPR on multiple properties could have 'unintended' consequences regarding a property investors own home.


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    #47
    wally79
    Registered Users Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭wally79


    titan18 wrote: »
    You'd have to be pretty naive to think that banning AirBnb will result in these houses going back into the rental market. Most will just be sold at this stage. There's no business model there for a small scale landlord, and government ends up losing out on tax as the larger scale ones don't pay the same tax.

    Genius move by the clowns in government.

    Wont the people who buy these houses will be out of the rental market then

    So either available rental properties go up or number of people looking to rent goes down


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    #48
    Bigmac1euro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    titan18 wrote: »
    You'd have to be pretty naive to think that banning AirBnb will result in these houses going back into the rental market. Most will just be sold at this stage. There's no business model there for a small scale landlord, and government ends up losing out on tax as the larger scale ones don't pay the same tax.

    Genius move by the clowns in government.

    Even if they are sold it’s another family housed, people seem to forget this all the time.
    Another family who buys is a family less on the rental market.


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    #49
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,933 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    wally79 wrote:
    Wont the people who buy these houses will be out of the rental market then


    Not everyone renting can afford a house (id imagine vast majority renting can't tbh) so where do you expect those people to go.


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    #50
    wally79
    Registered Users Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭wally79


    titan18 wrote: »
    Not everyone renting can afford a house (id imagine vast majority renting can't tbh) so where do you expect those people to go.

    They will still rent. They weren’t likely to be using air bnb properties anyway


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    #51
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,418 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Wonder what happens where someone already has bookings taken on AirBnB for next summer?


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    #52
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,774 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Peatys wrote: »
    Happy days. House joined on to me won't be an unlicenced hotel any more. Who's responsible so i can make sure to get them some votes come election time?

    A proper register should be set up so that people like yourself can check on these 'unlicenced hotels' and report same.


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    #53
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,460 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    steo_magra wrote: »
    Even if they are sold it’s another family housed, people seem to forget this all the time.
    Another family who buys is a family less on the rental market.

    Not accurate, thousands living with parents or trading up/down.


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    titan18 wrote: »
    You'd have to be pretty naive to think that banning AirBnb will result in these houses going back into the rental market. Most will just be sold at this stage. There's no business model there for a small scale landlord, and government ends up losing out on tax as the larger scale ones don't pay the same tax.

    Genius move by the clowns in government.

    A win, win for families who are mortgage approved but struggling to find a home to buy. A great move by the Government and one that’s long overdue.


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    #55
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Wonder what happens where someone already has bookings taken on AirBnB for next summer?

    Cancelled. Airbnb host can cancel at any time with no penalty. It's one of the non very obvious risks for Airbnb guests, you do learn quickly when a host cancels on you days before you fly to a popular destination.


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    #56
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    steo_magra wrote: »
    Even if they are sold it’s another family housed, people seem to forget this all the time.
    Another family who buys is a family less on the rental market.

    Well it's not binary. There are more categories than house owner and house renter. Also you may have four adults living in a rented house, which may be bought by one or two people.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    A win, win for families who are mortgage approved but struggling to find a home to buy. A great move by the Government and one that’s long overdue.

    Again, it's benefitting one group of people at the expense of another.

    We have a huge problem in this country where 80% of the population own their houses. So the 20% who rent get shafted time and again. I'm a firm believer that the rental crisis has been manufactured by the government restricting supply to get people out of negative equity.


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    #57
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Well it's not binary. There are more categories than house owner and house renter. Also you may have four adults living in a rented house, which may be bought by one or two people.

    You generally have zero people 'living' in an AirBnB property.


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    #58
    wally79
    Registered Users Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭wally79


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Well it's not binary. There are more categories than house owner and house renter. Also you may have four adults living in a rented house, which may be bought by one or two people.

    These aren’t standard rentals though. These are Airbnb properties. This change will release previously unavailable properties to the standard rental/retail market


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    #59
    Bigmac1euro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    Not accurate, thousands living with parents or trading up/down.

    Ok well let’s stick these houses on Airbnb for tourists......


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    #60
    Bigmac1euro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    I can’t wrap my head around why so many people here are arguing the point that Airbnb properties will be released back to the market when we have a property crisis. The internet is whack!


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    #61
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,933 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    steo_magra wrote:
    Ok well let’s stick these houses on Airbnb for tourists......


    Where else do you expect these tourists to go? Hotel prices are through the roof so most people will just likely not come if that's their only option.

    All that serves to do is reduce tax and possibly result in a loss of jobs if tourism starts to decrease.


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