Sherlock [ SPOILERS ]

connemara man · 12-01-2017 12:23am

^

In all fairness the ordinary done this well is rare that's why it's highlighted in such a manner

cython · 12-01-2017 10:19am

pinkypinky wrote: »

No, Dr Strange was finished filming well before they started on this season of Sherlock.

"Well before" is a slight stretch, at least according to Wikipedia, which claims Dr Strange wrapped on April 3rd, and Sherlock season 4 started on April 4th

Obviously no overlap still, and there's no guarantee that Cumberbatch was on either set at those exact times, but definitely exaggeration as to the time between the productions there!

Ceist_Beag · 12-01-2017 10:20am

reason vs religion wrote: »

A review in the Independent (from where I don't usually get my opinions!) broadly accused Gatiss of using trickery and editing to conceal a straightforward plot, and I'm somewhat in agreement. When the plot descends into the murky world of Sherlock's mind, the viewer is forced to suspend judgement, not knowing what is real and not. And I don't think it's a satisfying conclusion to then drop viewers back into the real world and say, Bam - the daughter is actually the sister. Ha, didn't see that coming did you?!. Because I don't feel shock. I don't feel I'm invested in the mystery. Just watching to see what I am told happens next.

Would go along with that as it was my first impression after - too much misdirection for the sake of it. I did enjoy it all the same but it's very different viewing. Not so much a show that you watch trying to figure things out before it unfolds, more one you watch for the superb way it is shot, the great lines and acting, and how you can then digest it all after and try and make sense of what you have just viewed.

BTW I removed the spoilers as it is something we already viewed and as has been said, this thread has "Spoilers" in the title!

Penn · 12-01-2017 10:29am

I've heard it said that a great mystery is one where you get all the pieces throughout the story but it's only at the end that you see how they all fit together. A bad mystery is one where you just get all the pieces at the end practically already put together.

In fairness to Sherlock, the pieces about Sherlock's sister were there. The same actress playing all three roles (which I never copped), the repeated hints about something happening in his childhood which pointed to another brother (but like the first time Sherlock met John and thought his brother gave him his phone, it was a sister), "Miss Me?" being from his sister rather than Moriarty...

The pieces were there. The big mystery at the end was all the pieces we'd be given being put together as opposed to a shock surprise ending for the sake of it.

I thought it was done brilliantly.

pinkypinky · 12-01-2017 10:31am

cython wrote: »

"Well before" is a slight stretch, at least according to Wikipedia, which claims Dr Strange wrapped on April 3rd, and Sherlock season 4 started on April 4th Obviously no overlap still, and there's no guarantee that Cumberbatch was on either set at those exact times, but definitely exaggeration as to the time between the productions there!

Fair enough, but he would have had the little goatee for most of the filming, and wore hair pieces for both that and the huge beard (in the Nepal scenes), whereas the Sherlock scruff just looks like he didn't shave for a week in real life.

CelticRambler · 12-01-2017 11:02am

reason vs religion wrote: »

When the plot descends into the murky world of Sherlock's mind, the viewer is forced to suspend judgement, not knowing what is real and not.

That's how I've felt about it since the "Brides" episode last Christmas. I'm quite happy to believe in time-travelling and drug-induced revelations as plot devices, but when a whole extended edition became one long muddle of non-reality, it took away a lot of the enjoyment. Although the latest episode is an improvement on the last two, I'm getting fed up with the blurring of different "realities" and cheap tricks like the undead Mary, and as you say, I watched it for the editting and production values, not for the story.

Re spoilers: some of us are not in BBC-land and have to wait for each episode to become available, so I for one appreciate the spoiler tags, at least in the first few messages after the latest episode airs so that I know when to stop reading this thread!

reason vs religion · 12-01-2017 1:35pm

Penn wrote: »

I've heard it said that a great mystery is one where you get all the pieces throughout the story but it's only at the end that you see how they all fit together. A bad mystery is one where you just get all the pieces at the end practically already put together.

In fairness to Sherlock, the pieces about Sherlock's sister were there. The same actress playing all three roles (which I never copped), the repeated hints about something happening in his childhood which pointed to another brother (but like the first time Sherlock met John and thought his brother gave him his phone, it was a sister), "Miss Me?" being from his sister rather than Moriarty...

The pieces were there. The big mystery at the end was all the pieces we'd be given being put together as opposed to a shock surprise ending for the sake of it.

I thought it was done brilliantly.

I'm reading elsewhere about all the clues contained within the series: Sherlock assuming Watson had a brother in the first episode, the mention of an east wind coming, Mycroft using gender neutral terms, etc. But these don't strike me as clues! I'm calling for clues whose meanings can be debated, not ones whose existence is the centre of the debate. I'd love to make a compilation of similarly minor details that turn out to be utterly irrelevant.

Also, a gripe about Eurus: she didn't exactly need to be a master of disguise to conceal herself from Watson, who'd never met her, or from Sherlock, who it would seem has not met her since childhood. And she also has the fortune to look uncannily like Smith's daughter!

764dak · 13-01-2017 4:58am

The season seems interesting.

dogsears · 13-01-2017 12:20pm

Was there meant to be some significance to the way Culverton Smith kept asking people how long they had worked for him with a really sinister look on his face? If it was just meant to intimidate them then so be it, I could see that, but it seemed like there was more to it than that, and if there was I didn't get what it was.

Basq · 13-01-2017 12:52pm

dogsears wrote: »

Was there meant to be some significance to the way Culverton Smith kept asking people how long they had worked for him with a really sinister look on his face? If it was just meant to intimidate them then so be it, I could see that, but it seemed like there was more to it than that, and if there was I didn't get what it was.

At first, I remember thinking it was related to the ward that Sherlock was being detained in.

Culverton asked two people (Nurse Cornish when with the group of kids and Saheed in the mortuary) who said 7 and 4 years respectively. But ward was indicated as 73. So that's out.

GoldFour4 · 13-01-2017 1:06pm

I'd imagine it was some form of blackmail? I.e how long have you been working here and known that I have the run of the place and my set of keys and access to the mortuary?

Penn · 13-01-2017 1:36pm

Yeah I kinda saw it as a "Don't you know who I am? I can have you fired" sort of threat.

Ceist_Beag · 13-01-2017 2:48pm

Basq wrote: »

At first, I remember thinking it was related to the ward that Sherlock was being detained in.

Culverton asked two people (Nurse Cornish when with the group of kids and Saheed in the mortuary) who said 7 and 4 years respectively. But ward was indicated as 73. So that's out.

Seriously Basq, you're taking in this level of detail while watching the show? Even if the ward was 74 what would the point of that be - that Smith would decide which ward to put him in based on the answers he got - instead of putting him in the room which had a hidden entrance? I get that people are always looking for hidden meanings in this show but I think you're overthinking this one tbh!

Basq · 13-01-2017 3:07pm

^ Didn't say I wasn't overthinking it.. but to be honest, Culverton asking it the first time was one thing, but asking someone else the exact same thing.. it could have easily been hinting at something.

At the end of season 3, Mycroft uttered "an east wind is coming"... it only took 3 years to pay off as to what that actually meant.

Over the years, I've learnt Sherlock is a multi-faceted show and you can often ignore insignificant details that have a bigger meaning. Of course with that, obviously sometimes you can overthink things.

jasonb · 13-01-2017 5:44pm

And don't forget that some of the 'clues' are also nods to the books. 'An east wind is coming' is from the last (as least chronologically) short story, based just before World War 1, when the 'east wind coming' was from Europe and the approaching war.

They used it again here as a nod to the books, and then added the extra layer of the name of Sherlock's sister.

J.

thisistough · 14-01-2017 1:43am

Basq wrote: »

At the end of season 3, Mycroft uttered "an east wind is coming"... it only took 3 years to pay off

I think it was John said that, otherwise Mycroft would have known what he was saying wouldn't he?

MICKEYG · 14-01-2017 9:00am

thisistough wrote: »

I think it was John said that, otherwise Mycroft would have known what he was saying wouldn't he?

Sorry folks, unsure of the insignificance of the phrase "There is an east wind coming". Can you elaborate?

drugstore cowboy · 14-01-2017 9:05am

The series made me buy the complete Sherlock Holmes stories and I am hooked! I feel ashamed it took me so long to get into the printed tales. Better late than never I guess!

Turtle_ · 14-01-2017 10:05am

MICKEYG wrote: »

Sorry folks, unsure of the insignificance of the phrase "There is an east wind coming". Can you elaborate?

Eurus /euros means East wind

jasonb · 14-01-2017 10:09am

MICKEYG wrote: »

Sorry folks, unsure of the insignificance of the phrase "There is an east wind coming". Can you elaborate?

Eurus is the name of Sherlock's sister, and it's a Greek word that is the name of the Greek god of the East Wind.

I think it was Sherlock who actually said (in the Series 3 finale) 'the east wind takes us all in the end' and he said it was a phrase/story that Mycroft used to tell him when they were younger.

J.

Basq · 14-01-2017 9:46pm

Uh-oh!

EDIT: Russian audio... bollocks anyways!

MisterAnarchy · 15-01-2017 3:39am

Hopefully the last episode is a huge improvement on the first 2 episodes of series 4 ,as they were very poor episodes.

The show is running on fumes at this stage ,its become a parody of itself.
The writers are so far up their own arse at this stage its not funny.
How many more times are they going to jump the shark.

I was expecting the Culverton Smith episode to be good but it was a mess.
The character of Culverton Smith was like something out of Scooby Doo ,Toby Jones was really hamming it up .
What was with those ridiculous teeth ?

If the next episode is to be the final episode ever then I am glad as the last 2 series have been very poor bar the odd episode.
It is hard to believe that the fluffy nonsense being served since the beginning of series three was written by the same people who wrote the brilliant first two series.
Mc Guigan has been a big loss as director too ,his direction in the first 2 series was very tight .

flazio · 15-01-2017 10:27am

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Mc Guigan has been a big loss as director too ,his direction in the first 2 series was very tight .

He executive produced the Luke Cage series on Netflix and directed a couple of episodes. You can see a couple of familiar effects if you look close enough, especially with Misty Knight detection scenes.

764dak · 15-01-2017 11:30am

grames_bond wrote: »

I heard that that is supposedly teasing that there will be 4 episodes this season as opposed to the usual 3!

My digital TV guide describes the third episode of season four as the season finale. It comes on PBS where I'm from.

Basq · 15-01-2017 12:15pm

Yep, 3 episodes as per usual.. latest comments from showrunners say it *may* be the last ever episode.

jockeyboard · 15-01-2017 9:59pm

OMG

ThunbergsAreGo · 15-01-2017 10:21pm

That explosion was hilarious

Mr Whom · 15-01-2017 10:22pm

This is fair gibberish.

Mr Whom · 15-01-2017 10:38pm

More plot holes than a truck load of Swiss cheese

ThunbergsAreGo · 15-01-2017 10:51pm

Sawlock Holmes

Sherlock [** SPOILERS **]

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Sherlock [ SPOILERS ]