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Inevitable Crash

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13

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    #62
    caviardreams
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Postit wrote: »
    Oh wow. This really is quite concerning. If you don’t mind, can you cite a link to this legislation?

    There is a 100,000 central bank guarantee for deposits. Above this, your money is not guaranteed should a bank go bust etc. However, up to 100,000 there is no issue with deposits.


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    #63
    Sarn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭Sarn


    Customer deposits of up to €100k are guaranteed. That is further supported by the document you linked to.


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    #64
    Postit
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Postit


    JonDoe wrote: »
    Hey postit I don't have to answer any more of your questioning, who do you think you are?
    What is Money? Where does it come from? Why is there more money now than there ever was before? Who gets to create it? Who gets it first? What do they do with it?

    Yeah, I hear ya. What is money? So many questions.

    However, your exact words were “Think it was 2014 the bail in doctrine was finally pushed into law amongst G20 nations, no longer a depositor but a creditor to the banks when you lodge your hard earned cash.”

    I’m merely asking you to cite the legislation you maintain is now law?


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    #65
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭kaymin


    JonDoe wrote: »
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/g20-governments-all-agreed-to-cyprus-style-theft-of-bank-deposits-in-2010/5335567?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles

    Can't find the exact document right now that states "we are going to steal your savings" but here's an article that points in that direction. I think if you want 100% clarification you should go to your bank and get an agreement in writing that they will not take your savings.

    It was always the case that if a bank goes under bondholders / depositors become creditors that ultimately get what's left from the liquidation of the banks assets. Governments took it upon themselves to step in in the last crash - there was no legal obligation to do so though.

    In any case, depost holders still benefit from the 100k government deposit guarantee regardless of whether the bank has sufficient funds to pay it.


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    #66
    Shai
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    from the linked document
    And since bail-in rules have confirmed that insured depositors are protected by deposit guarantee schemes, i.e. ultimately by the taxpayer, the banking supervisor can be represented as the public authority to whom insured depositors delegate the monitoring of bank behaviour.


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    #67
    JonDoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭JonDoe


    Are you still classed as a depositor with your bank? What does your account say you are?


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    #68
    Shai
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    also, the legislation: https://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/how-we-regulate/resolution-framework/legislation


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    #69
    Shai
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    JonDoe wrote: »
    Are you still classed as a depositor with your bank? What does your account say you are?

    it says I'm awesome. Thanks for asking. Probably because I don't type things like
    JonDoe wrote:
    Think I hit a nerve. Go ahead if you can prove my "Dangerous" thoughts incorrect, come up with the necessary documentation.


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    #70
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    JohnDoe sitting in the corner in a tinfoil hat, yet can't even show us the legislative source of his paranoia. It would be funny if it wasn't so worrying.

    Suppose chemtrails are a thing also.


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    #71
    JonDoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭JonDoe


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    JohnDoe sitting in the corner in a tinfoil hat, yet can't even show us the legislative source of his paranoia. It would be funny if it wasn't so worrying.

    Suppose chemtrails are a thing also.

    Chemtrails you've been ingesting too many of them. I do occasionally look up in the sky and think "what lovely patterns" and "don't they do flight paths any more".
    As for alluding to my mental state , you can just go and fuc* yourself in that corner your in wearing whatever gets you off.

    Well go leave your money in the Bank, I'll pass you whistling when you're queuing for your €60 per day from an empty ATM, just like the "lazy" Greeks (no offence to Greek people, it was a nice summer and no body mugged me).
    Why do ordinary Greek "depositors" get treated this way, it's their money isn't it, they have the same banking regulations, why are they limited in cash withdrawals? I know so many questions.


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    #72
    JonDoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭JonDoe


    Shai wrote: »
    it says I'm awesome. Thanks for asking. Probably because I don't type things like
    Show me where it says your awesome


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    #73
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    JonDoe wrote: »
    Chemtrails you've been ingesting too many of them. I do occasionally look up in the sky and think "what lovely patterns" and "don't they do flight paths any more".
    As for alluding to my mental state , you can just go and fuc* yourself in that corner your in wearing whatever gets you off.

    Well go leave your money in the Bank, I'll pass you whistling when you're queuing for your €60 per day from an empty ATM, just like the "lazy" Greeks (no offence to Greek people, it was a nice summer and no body mugged me).
    Why do ordinary Greek "depositors" get treated this way, it's their money isn't it, they have the same banking regulations, why are they limited in cash withdrawals? I know so many questions.

    I hope you don't actually say this crazy stuff to people in real life.

    As for your last paragraph, maybe you should watch It's A Wonderful Life. Great xmas film.


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    #74
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    JonDoe wrote: »
    Hey postit I don't have to answer any more of your questioning, who do you think you are?

    You are not able to answer the questions, anyone looking at your post history would know that, really what was he thinking!

    You are just mindless repeating the same old nonsense that I have heard for the past 35+ years. You have not even added a single new thought or perspective to it. But then I would not expect you to, your role is to just repeat what you were told.

    So best put you on ignore as any expectation of a discussion is not there.


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    #75
    crusier
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭crusier


    It's coming and it's going to hit hard, get yourself sorted while you can. Brexit and trump are going to crash world economies in the next 12 months IMO. I predicted the last one for the record, we forget too easily.


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    #76
    JonDoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭JonDoe


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    You are not able to answer the questions, anyone looking at your post history would know that, really what was he thinking!

    You are just mindless repeating the same old nonsense that I have heard for the past 35+ years. You have not even added a single new thought or perspective to it. But then I would not expect you to, your role is to just repeat what you were told.

    So best put you on ignore as any expectation of a discussion is not there.

    How about I just never show up at one of your Dinner parties, I'm sure there' scintillating affairs full of sage commentary (35+ years). your location status says Switzerland. Are you in the Cuckoo Clock Business?
    I've really inspired a few here to come out of the shadows ans spew vitriol on my views. It's only reinforced my convictions, in fact I think I'll go and buy some hmmm. Silver today it is, yes silver it's more substantial and undervalued.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGwZVGKG30s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gPV9Tu0D-E


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    #77
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭dubrov


    In fairness to Jonjoe, the Cyprus experience proves that governments will make up the rules to suit as they go along.

    I'd be fairly confident that deposits (below 100k) would be raided if governments felt there was a need to do so.

    The only place safe for assets in a crash is somewhere outside of government reach


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    #78
    Shai
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    No deposits below 100k were touched by the Cypriotic government.


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    #79
    caviardreams
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    dubrov wrote: »
    In fairness to Jonjoe, the Cyprus experience proves that governments will make up the rules to suit as they go along.

    I'd be fairly confident that deposits (below 100k) would be raided if governments felt there was a need to do so.

    The only place safe for assets in a crash is somewhere outside of government reach

    The deposit guarantee scheme is backed/governed by the ECB in terms of minimum standards (and locally the Irish Central bank) however if I am not mistaken, so the Irish government can't just raid it - it would be a big deal
    https://www.ecb.europa.eu/explainers/tell-me-more/html/deposit_guarantee.en.html


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    #80
    JonDoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭JonDoe


    That BIS review document was a framework for each individual government to introduce legislation. I can't find the legislation Ireland enacted so I can't point to it's content. The treatment of small business accounts and natural persons is a crime though. How could you have a functioning payroll account under such a bail in doctrine.
    Think under 100k Cypriots were affected, the really big guys, the Russian Oil and Gas guys just turned up at the London branches and were made whole. Think there was an element of "we know where you live " pressure applied.


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    #81
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    dubrov wrote: »
    In fairness to Jonjoe ...
    In fairness to everyone else following this thread, Jonjoe has made a very specific claim:

    "the bail in doctrine was finally pushed into law amongst G20 nations"

    He's just being asked to provide the details of this law. That shouldn't be too difficult - unless he's just making stuff up.
    And if he's just making stuff up, why should anyone be 'fair' to a scaremonger?


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    #82
    caviardreams
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    JonDoe wrote: »
    .
    Think under 100k Cypriots were affected, the really big guys, the Russian Oil and Gas guys just turned up at the London branches and were made whole. Think there was an element of "we know where you live " pressure applied.

    Think? Really?

    Do you have any evidence of this?
    From my reading it appears there were only "haircuts" above the 100k threshold, which in fairness is very transparent and well known at this stage.


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    #83
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,296 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    Yes it much more responsible. But that isn't that much saying much comparing to what it was before the last crash which was "hey take our money".

    If the price of any house is significantly above its actual value and they are still giving mortgages then it's irresponsible.

    Actual value!!? :/


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    #84
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Phoebas wrote: »
    In fairness to everyone else following this thread, Jonjoe has made a very specific claim:

    "the bail in doctrine was finally pushed into law amongst G20 nations"

    He's just being asked to provide the details of this law. That shouldn't be too difficult - unless he's just making stuff up.
    And if he's just making stuff up, why should anyone be 'fair' to a scaremonger?

    My point is that although JonJoe is not correct, there is some truth in his statement. The G20 agreed to legislate for bail-ins including depositor accounts and many countries have already done so.

    Before Cyprus, depositor accounts were previously seen as sacred but that has all changed. Of course there is a deposit guarantee of 100k but history tells us that the rules tend to be rewritten in times of crisis.

    I still don't think deposits will be touched as they are a core foundation for trust in the monetary system. Messing with that could have unexpected effects.


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    #85
    Postit
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Postit


    JonDoe wrote: »
    That BIS review document was a framework for each individual government to introduce legislation. I can't find the legislation Ireland enacted so I can't point to it's content.

    Just to save you some time, Ireland isn’t a G20 nation so that could be why you can’t find it in Irish legislation?
    JonDoe wrote: »
    Think it was 2014 the bail in doctrine was finally pushed into law amongst G20 nations, no longer a depositor but a creditor to the banks when you lodge your hard earned cash.
    dubrov wrote: »
    My point is that although JonJoe is not correct, there is some truth in his statement. The G20 agreed to legislate for bail-ins including depositor accounts and many countries have already done so.

    I’m really learning so much in this discussion that I wasn’t previously aware of (more fool me eh?). I’ve been so naive. Such excellent commentary and thoughtful empirically produced insight into financial economics. Top notch stuff indeed.

    However, at the risk of interrupting the discussion unnecessarily again (I hope you’ll forgive me for asking for the third time). Can you provide a link to the specific legislation you are claiming has been enacted in twenty countries?


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    #86
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭dubrov


    See Article 55 of Directive 2014/59/EU for a start.

    I'd provide more information but can't be bothered with the sanctimony on this thread


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    #87
    Postit
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Postit


    dubrov wrote: »
    See Article 55 of Directive 2014/59/EU for a start.

    I'd provide more information but can't be bothered with the sanctimony on this thread

    Great stuff, thanks. However, you appear to be confusing EU directives with actual legislation. Directives are merely broad instructions for each nation. They allow member states a certain amount of leeway as to the exact rules to be adopted into legislation.

    The claim from JohnDoe (and backed up by you) specifically says “pushed into law amongst G20 nations”:
    JonDoe wrote: »
    Think it was 2014 the bail in doctrine was finally pushed into law amongst G20 nations, no longer a depositor but a creditor to the banks when you lodge your hard earned cash.

    Is it so unreasonable to ask for proof of this claim?


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    #88
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Postit wrote:
    Great stuff, thanks. However, you appear to be confusing EU directives with actual legislation. Directives are merely broad instructions for each nation. They allow member states a certain amount of leeway as to the exact rules to be adopted into legislation.

    I didn't confuse anything. You can do your own research into what countries have already enacted legislation.

    I also never agreed with Jonjoe' s claim


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    #89
    Postit
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Postit


    dubrov wrote: »
    I also never agreed with Jonjoe' s claim

    Yes you did:
    dubrov wrote: »
    The G20 agreed to legislate for bail-ins including depositor accounts and many countries have already done so.


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    #90
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Postit wrote: »
    Yes you did:

    The subtle difference appears to be lost on you.

    Anyway, apologies to the OP for derailing this thread.
    I am out.


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    #91
    Postit
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Postit


    dubrov wrote: »
    I am out.

    Scaremongers are dangerous folks. False claims purported as facts should always be rigorously challenged and exposed for what they are, lies and misinformation.


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