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How about get a degree where there are jobs instead of crying about it.

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    #362
    lozenges
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭lozenges


    LRNM wrote: »
    What is it with STEM people and their raging desire to devoid the world of all art, literature, emotion, humanity and knowledge?



    So glad I'm not one of you sheep types who think the only desire in life is your salary and being a computer toucher for a living.

    The same knobjockeys who think Irish and History should be replaced by programming in schools.

    I'm a 'STEM person' as you put it and I have no such desire. I have defended the young man in the article on this thread.
    Nice generalisation though


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    #363
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,196 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    There's a simple reality at play here: if you're from a wealthy background you can afford to indulge yourself and chase your dream profession, if you're not, you need to play safe and study something with good employment prospects.

    There's a gender aspect to it too in my experience. Probably as a result of our societal gender norms young women seem to be given more leeway by their parents and peer group to chase their dream career in the creative arts, media etc. whereas young men are encouraged to go for more reliable careers like programming, engineering, finance etc. It would seem a rather obvious result of how our society has historically expected men to be the breadwinner and women to be the primary caregiver: his career prospects are deemed more important than hers as the prospective family unit will be more reliant upon them when children come along.

    While attitudes to this are changing, and we all know couples where the roles are reversed, they're still very much the exception rather than the rule and, at least in my experience, most women won't countenance settling down with a guy who can't at least step into the role of main breadwinner for the early childhood years.


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    #364
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Does anyone know how many graduates of the National Film School in IADT have actually directed a live-action feature film.


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    #365
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,196 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    vriesmays wrote: »
    Does anyone know how many graduates of the National Film School in IADT have actually directed a live-action feature film.
    An old housemate of mine did that course and has carved out a fairly successful career as a sound engineer. He mainly works in TV documentaries though as that's where his interests lay (National Geographic / Discovery Channel stuff) but I think most of his classmates ended up in different career paths (finance, IT etc.)


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    #366
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah, all this talk of lads with arts degrees using them to build a decent career are missing the point..this lad wants to be a playwright..in 2020..


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    #367
    An Claidheamh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Yeah, all this talk of lads with arts degrees using them to build a decent career are missing the point..this lad wants to be a playwright..in 2020..

    The point is we have failed him, don’t you understand?

    Just like I was failed by Ireland when I was wasn’t given a professional football contract.

    #notfair#mentalhealth


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    #368
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,763 ✭✭✭growleaves


    At my alma-mater it was a reaction to all the student politics grandstanding by non-STEM types.

    Most people don't have the motivation to become real artists. Litterateurs and painters who put politics as their main goal are usually careerists.

    If you see the post klaz made earlier about unoriginal work being submitted to galleries - where most painters fall down nowadays is with the subject matter. Which is fundamentally the most important thing. Art is about expression.

    Before someone disagrees with me, and says what if I could paint like Titian? It doesn't matter if you have the greatest brushwork in the world. The brushwork is there to support the painting, not the other way around. (Though you would need at least competent technique as well - you need to be able to draw/paint).


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    #369
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    People with good brush work are usually painters not artists. The best artists create their own style, no college can teach this.


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    #370
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    If the plays he writes are as dreary as his whingy article then maybe abroad is the best place for him.

    Also, I don't know why he couldn't get a job in a shop, there are plenty of better educated people working in shops etc.


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    #371
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Is this still going on? :D

    I know we are a nation of begrudgers but this is something else.

    :D


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    #372
    mondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭mondeo


    There is some really useless degrees out there, degree in Art history, Degree in Music, Degree in Fashion design, degree in Irish language. Who commits themselves to degrees like these that guarantee them no job...


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    #373
    rob316
    Registered Users Posts: 18,015 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Your poor choice of degree is the reason you couldn't get a job. Arts is the degree for people who have no idea what they want to do or want the most fun in college.

    Universities have some absolute waste of time degrees. I spent 3 years doing one and my wife the same. If I had the years back I'd have done a trade, plenty of money to be made there and your skill is recognized anywhere in the world.


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    #374
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    mondeo wrote: »
    There is some really useless degrees out there, degree in Art history, Degree in Music, Degree in Fashion design, degree in Irish language. Who commits themselves to degrees like these that guarantee them no job...

    People who know and understand the value of education?


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    #375
    rob316
    Registered Users Posts: 18,015 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    KaneToad wrote: »
    People who know and understand the value of education?

    Clowns who spend there lives in college. There is no point of going to college unless you are gauranteed a half decent career and skill set out of it. Your better of spending 4 years bursting your bollox in a job with internal promotion opportunities.


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    #376
    boombang
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭boombang


    KaneToad wrote: »
    People who know and understand the value of education?

    I think that depends on what you consider "valuable" in your education. Fine if you want to have your mind broadened and to be cultured, but not valuable if you want to stay in Ireland, feed a family and have job security. No point in moaning about the lack of the latter if you prioritised the former.


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    #377
    Iscreamkone
    Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    If a random teenager asked you for advice on which college course s/he should pursue, what would you say?


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    #378
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Data science/Software development/Accounting/Actuary/Maths/Business finance/Pharmacology/Human resources/Geology/Engineering/Carpentry/Plumbing/Electrician.


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    #379
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Iscreamkone wrote: »
    If a random teenager asked you for advice on which college course s/he should pursue, what would you say?

    Depends on their interests, but generally I'd point them towards business/finance/management courses. Niche or specific courses, rather then generalised degrees. It's important to be a specialist these days.


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    #380
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,665 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    rob316 wrote: »
    Clowns who spend there lives in college. There is no point of going to college unless you are gauranteed a half decent career and skill set out of it. Your better of spending 4 years bursting your bollox in a job with internal promotion opportunities.
    Difficult part is getting on the ladder in the first place without a college qualification..


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    #381
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    If you can get on the ladder you don't need college in this country.


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    #382
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    vriesmays wrote: »
    If you can get on the ladder you don't need college in this country.

    You don't need it initially. There are plenty of entry level positions out there in most industries which can be obtained with a decent interview and personal development of skills required.

    The problem is that you tend to need a degree for management or any mid-tier position. Some industries are less likely to care, but it does improve your chances significantly to have such a qualification.

    I left college with a diploma, and found it kinda difficult to get decent work in Finance, except for AR/AP or collections roles. Pretty basic positions. A decade later, I went back to finish my degree because it was important in terms of pay scales. After that, the MBA made sense for management positions, because partners do care about such things, as do many customers.

    The point is that while a college/university degree isn't needed for many positions, it does help considerably as you move up the ladder... or if you want to step sideways and continue on a different career path.


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    #383
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    What degrees do accountants, solicitors, air controllers, pilots, firemen, Luas drivers need.


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    #384
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    vriesmays wrote: »
    What degrees do accountants, solicitors, air controllers, pilots, firemen, Luas drivers need.

    Difference between degrees and a license/certification to practice their profession... :rolleyes:


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    #385
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,493 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    How is it that someone who has to leave their hometown in Clare because they can't get a job, then moves to London which is good but has high rents etc, still manages to blame Dublin for his problems?


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    #386
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    What is edumacation anyway?

    Asking for a friend


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    #387
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    How is it that someone who has to leave their hometown in Clare because they can't get a job, then moves to London which is good but has high rents etc, still manages to blame Dublin for his problems?

    Logically, theatre people aren't that bright. What about the dopes protesting the Abbey for more diversity (i.e. more female jobs) and the same mob protesting when there's too much diversity there (i.e. not enough jobs for the Irish).


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    #388
    wobert
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭wobert


    Adrian Mole age 13 & 3/4 planned to study literature and quote Kafka at people while working as a Street sweeper.
    I think people should persue what courses or areas interest them but accept they may not be employable in that field.
    College degrees open up furthur education oportunities If things don’t work out. Might be another 3 years study though.


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    #389
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    How about proclaiming yourself rightful heir to all of earth's onions, then go knocking on doors and shop windows demanding your cut of all sales without taking no for an answer?

    How about that?


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    #390
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,665 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The point is that while a college/university degree isn't needed for many positions, it does help considerably as you move up the ladder... or if you want to step sideways and continue on a different career path.
    I think that is true even for technical positions, but corporate HR these days is addicted to using degrees purely to thin out the pile of CVs.


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    #391
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Fccwontletmebe wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/austerity-forced-me-out-of-ireland-now-i-don-t-know-how-to-return-1.4157890?fbclid=IwAR2qVpxxaaO54E-O2vWFjkhfgRKTRO8Q90BQ_GtLgDVmQTqlgzCGUZuaq7s

    Things like this really irritate me. Sense of entitlement culture.

    That article was 7th February. Move on dude, move on.


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