Why do some men commit rape?

The Black Oil wrote: »

I'm quoting two separate posts here. It seems you're a bit messy. You're saying you've not tarred all men, fair enough. Yet, in another breath you've said there's no long to stand on about men being told not to rape. Really?

The consent discussion is worth having, absolutely. My sex education was about biology, not relationships. It was in science class culminating in a VHS tape of a woman giving birth, when we were what, 14 ish? Then in fifth year it was redone in religion time, again very biologically based and contraception info, i.e. condoms and that was for the year group as a whole. The school brought in some chastity advocates too, no joke.

There was no discussion of consent at all. Looking back, this was very normal for the 1990s. Thinking of it today of course it seems out of place because you'd like to think sex ed curriculum has developed further, but I suspect it's largely quite patchy and we still abstinence only people speaking in schools probably "because ethos!", that's why. I would hope we've moved on pure biology and some relationship context is given.

Now, if consent is addressed through a proper sex ed curriculum and that's sorted out (in so far as it can be i.e., across the whole of Ireland), which men are you proposing need to be told not to rape?

Thats a very valid point. I think one of the concerns often voiced is that the consent discussion has been hijacked by groups who only want to push one perspective. That's very different though to saying we dont need to have a discussion around consent. One of my bugbears is that the question is so often farmed in the context of teaching men and boys about consent as opposed to the, in my view, more useful approach of teaching everyone about consent. One of the biggest issues with rape is its almost unique in that the two people involved can have a very different interpretation of the exact same event, and thats not necessarily just one persons fault.

I recently read a consent workshop pamphlet with the statistic that '84% of men who were involved in " rape events" were adamant they hadn't committed a rape' ( from my reading rape events was the authors interpretation rather than a criminal outcome). It was put out there to evoke outrage at these men but I couldn't help but think that in many cases they likely were innocent of any criminal liability on the basis of having a reasonable belief of consent, in many more they were proceeding at least in a belief of consent. Is it really as simple as they're just too thick to understand the clear message?

Has anyone ever asked if putting the focus on all the men with a stern "thou shalt not rape" is actually going to achieve anything here? Maybe we need to push past the victim blaming arguement and ask if we can give both sexes the tools to interact successfully. Maybe we need to acknowledge that, when we put the black and white parts to one side for a moment we need to have a slightly different approach and view for some of what's left in the grey area, preferably one that doesn't have polarised gender politics as its starting point

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

I was raped a couple of weeks back. "Date raped", I guess.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I can only speak from personal experience, but having experienced both, being falsely accused of rape, was multiples far worse for me personally than having been raped.

Jesus this has to be one of the most sobering threads I've read in a while.
Sorry to hear what happened to you both and thanks for sharing.

The Black Oil wrote: »

Have you read the whole thread? As I've already said, another reason I started it was because a female poster stated there was no meaningful self examination by men on this issue. It's mostly a men's forum here, though I've not the slightest objection to women contributing. As to your complaint about balance, I don't think it can be a since it's men who are the primary offenders of this crime, but where we certainly are running into difficulty is the obsession with gender politics 101 on blame and solutions.

To be perfectly honest TBO i have not read everything, however i have found this whole "reasoning" or "argument" upsetting. To brush all males with to be responsible with rape is insulting and undignified.

I have a personal perspective in this as a male who was raped by a male when i was a child. i do not go out and rape, I do not see the all males as potential threats, nor would i assume all females are a threat and to agree with another poster on this thread "rape is committed by the rapist" and the whole gender is not responsible for this disgusting crime.

I offered a slight angle on this in counter as the perception given is only men rape when both sexes rape and on the fact this happens the treatment of same is not equal.

Some people in here have their heads up their own arses, think they know what they talking about in the name of defended something they are not naware of truely and how it affects people.

Sleepy wrote: »

Is it? We see teachers frequently bemoan the boisterous nature of the boys in mixed classes and group based punishments being issued along gender lines, we programs aimed at encouraging girls to take an interest in science, engineering, coding, sport etc. Were these simply gender neutral programs like Coder Dojo I'd be all in favour of them but in my experience as a father of two kids, heaping encouragement and praise solely on one child is much the same as actively discouraging the other.


I think we're probably largely in agreement on this tbh. Consent should be one topic in a broader, far more honest sexual education program delivered in our secondary schools by medical professionals. What I object to is the notion of forcing all male students in third-level to attend consent classes delivered by some misandrist with a degree in gender combat studies.


How are we overplaying rape? By equating it with murder. By defining it as the worst crime one can commit against another.

As awful a crime as it is, unless combined with other forms of assault, a person who has been raped can still walk, talk, think, love, hold down a job, marry, raise children, chase dreams and perhaps achieve a few. A victim of a severe assault may never again be able to wipe their own arse.

I'm not trying to belittle the psychological trauma of being raped. It's an awful thing for a person to go through. I'm just questioning that if we're equating being raped to being murdered, are we contributing to the idea that a rape victim's life is over?

Have you ever been raped or sexually assaulted?

If not then you have no clue how it really affects people.

Ive been there, i have also been in the dark place of attempting suicide because of it, for me at that, the lowest point in my life my life was over in my mind.

You clearly are uneducated as to the true effects of what it is like for anyone like myself or others in this thread that have identified themselves as having gone through this crap.

Seriously people like you need to fcuk right off and go learn from a counsellor, Gardai and victims if they willing to share the details of what this is really like otherwise you and others in this thread are talking sh!t.

You think rape needs to be combined with other forms of assault to be more serious? Rape is an ASSAULT of the person you and anyone who believes otherwise is a tw@t

Wibbs wrote: »

OK SL I fully understand how close to the bone this subject is for you and I truly sympathise, but let's dial down the above kinda thing please. People are allowed have contrary opinions. Nature of debate.

Sorry Wibbs, this is very touchy for me, there is a difference between debate and uneducated rambling opinions.

However rather than get stuck in that ill share some of my expereince and maybe, just maybe it will help educate some folks in here.

I was abused when i was a child by a non family member, for many years after this has affected my confidence, my feeling of self worth and how i viewed relationships with partners.

I attempted suicide one night, was found by a nurse on way home who had helped me, i was very very lucky that night. I had comtemplated suicide on a few more occassions after that as i couldnt deal with my percieved personal shame that it was my fault what happened. I took till i was 27 till i was comfortable to be able to have a sexual relationship, i was so nervous about exposing myself this much for fear of what could happen to me.

It took me 20 years to finally say what happened to me out loud, i had shared with my then fiancee who i was with for 5 years what happened, however i had many anger issues though never violent to her, self loathing and fits of emotional breakdown at random times and this caused an end to our relationship as my fiancee couldnt handle that stuff anymore. It wasn't fair on either of us and when she broke up with me that is what pushed me over the edge to get help.

I spent many many hours with a counsellor, i travelled alot to see a good counsellor who helped me deal with this stuff, eventually i got to a point where i could actually go to the guards to say what happened in an official capacity, try get some justice and expose the person that done this to me. For years i tried to blank out what happened not wanting to believe it was true and i feared i would not be believe when i did go to guards.

Eventually my family and counsellor helped me come to terms to make an appointment with a detective who specialised in these type of cases. I went into the station broke down while having to relive all the crap and expose myself further to a stranger who would be trying to help me. Its not easy, probably the hardest thing ive done in my life opening up like that to someone you dont know, plus this whole thing was recorded, it felt like i was on trial at the time.

It was approx 9 months since i heard from the detective and one day i got a call from him, he basically said on phone they had confirmed all i said and the person who did this to me had been convicted for same crimes against other people around the country, he spent some time in jail but had since died. For me i broke down again on that call, for years of self doubt disappeared and finially i could believe the stuff had happened to me did happen and it was not my fault however bitter at same time as he escaped justice for what he done to me.

And here i am 3 years since that, alot of crap gone through, alot of loss from what happened to me. And im telling all like Sleepy here there is no such thing as rape culture, there is a rapist and their own twisted motives, nothing more, nothing less. As i said previously i dont subscribe to point that all men are evil cos a man abused me, you want to blame something, then blame the person not the gender.

I really hope people take a good long read and read over again, it was not easy for me to write and share this, i have obviously left certain details out that i will not share but this is food for thought for some. And maybe, just maybe you will have a better understanding as there is alot more lost than just personal innocence, there is alof more effect on the person than the assault.

Sleepy wrote: »

*without going into the gory details, that young girl suffered a horrific experience at the hands of a group of young animals and didn't get the support she should have after the event due to the social environment she was in at the time. She didn't have your strength or luck and her suicide attempt succeeded.

Its really sad to hear that, no one, absolutely no one deserves to go through that.

I gotta agree with point in the last point the who has it worse off debate is never a good one. It is all relevant psychological issues that one can get from a sexual assault they could alsoe get from a serious unprovoked pyshical assault.

I personally believe we need a root and branch relook at out legal system, you can't go a day without dispairing at some of the sentences handed out in our courts.

My only hope in this debate is we move away from branding every man as a potential rapist and all this crap about a rape culture. Oh all the guys u have grown up with this is not something that ever came up.

It really got my back up some of the crap of late coming from the rape crisis council, I would hope they aren't goverment funded as an organizations that attacks half of a society doesn't deserve it's funding.

Catari Jaguar wrote: »

Anyone been following the Stanford swimmer rape case in the media at the moment?

Possibly just another case of "Affluenza" teen? Judge gives him slap on the wrist, father dismisses the crime as "20 minutes of action", female friend defends him and says is all PC gone wrong. Brock himself is blaming "alcohol consumption and promiscuity".

Any thoughts?

Victim impact letter - very powerful

Father's letter

I'm reminded of the Steubenville gang rape, and he's a prime example of the sort of entitled failed abortion that would answer OP's question.