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Dairy Farming General

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    #9632
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,084 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    browned wrote: »
    But isn't that one of teagasc clear messages. Or don't expose your business to potential imported feed costs. A lot depends on the reliability and price variences of his winter feed supplies.
    No to derail a good convo on meal but just to highlight the exposure of your proposed system and his current on on meal alone.
    Noel sr 3.85 x .5 t x 40 ha = €77 up or down per €1 change in meal.
    Your sr 3.2 x 1.5 t x 40ha= €192
    More risk as well as more reward.

    In a bad year can Noel say up his ration to say 1 tonne and get an enocomic return. In the same year would your cows respond to extra meal above and beyond the 1.5t or would you just be importing winter feed as is the case with Noel.

    As I say your systems work perfectly when done properly but both require top 10% farmers to emplement both. Unfortunately for the 90% of us not in your bracket the risks get higher due to lesser skills

    Good points again but that's just based on conc usage .i can grow and pit/bale all my own feed which would be mostly of a very high quality ,Noel buys practically all of it in .al
    I'd doubt Noel would get the same return by feeding 500 kg more than me ,my cows will respond to meal in Ltrs and kg solids to a much greater scale .feeding over 1.5 tonne average would give me negelible return even in good year .in 2012 /13 meal usage was only up by about 200 kg duectobweather


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    #9633
    browned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 661 ✭✭✭browned


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Good points again but that's just based on conc usage .i can grow and pit/bale all my own feed which would be mostly of a very high quality ,Noel buys practically all of it in .al
    I'd doubt Noel would get the same return by feeding 500 kg more than me ,my cows will respond to meal in Ltrs and kg solids to a much greater scale .feeding over 1.5 tonne average would give me negelible return even in good year .in 2012 /13 meal usage was only up by about 200 kg duectobweather

    I know just an example and admittedly a poor one. Out in tractor drawing bales so limited time.
    Based on a 90 day winter and a daily intake of say 10kgs. Noel would want to be importing .9t feed for the winter. Too many variables as I don't know his farm too well. .
    0.9x 3.85= 3.46t/ha imported for winter feed
    Add to imported ration during lactation
    0.5x 3.85= 1.925 gives a total feed import of 5.39t/ha

    On your system it's 1.5x3.2= 4.8t/ha imported.

    Too lazy to cost each feed. In gg's example of 10c/kg for silage and 28 c/kg ration

    noel
    1.95x280=539
    3.46x100=346. 4x170=680 more realistic figure
    total 885/ha. 1219/ha

    mj
    4.8x280=1344/ha


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    #9634
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Good artical in irish dairy farmer of a 25 yr old built up a herd if 200 ciws in 3 yrs and niw in a share farming arrangement


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    #9635
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,476 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    Good artical in irish dairy farmer of a 25 yr old built up a herd if 200 ciws in 3 yrs and niw in a share farming arrangement

    100 cows where bought-in on borrowed money this year though and he said himself was taking little our no wages, seems to be the way to go though find a tillage farmer who wants into dairying with a big block of land and you put in the cows and labour so they can stick to messing around in tractors....
    Brilliant way to accumulate wealth though and pay little our no tax with stock relief incentives


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    #9636
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    100 cows where bought-in on borrowed money this year though and he said himself was taking little our no wages, seems to be the way to go though find a tillage farmer who wants into dairying with a big block of land and you put in the cows and labour so they can stick to messing around in tractors....
    Brilliant way to accumulate wealth though and pay little our no tax with stock relief incentives

    +1.
    I would be open to partnerships like that.
    IMV it is my best route if I wanted to expand further into dairy.


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    #9637
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    http://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/china-building-100000-cow-dairy-unit-to-supply-russian-market.htm?cmpid=SOC|Twitter|FarmersWeekly|sf10668994|sf10668994


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    #9638
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,476 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Milked out wrote: »
    http://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/china-building-100000-cow-dairy-unit-to-supply-russian-market.htm?cmpid=SOC|Twitter|FarmersWeekly|sf10668994|sf10668994

    Pretty mind blowing numbers involved, you'd have to question the feasibility of it though, a failed harvest on the cropping ground and they're stuffed/likewise a disease outbreak say of foot and mouth and it's a nightmare scenario


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    #9639
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    Pretty mind blowing numbers involved, you'd have to question the feasibility of it though, a failed harvest on the cropping ground and they're stuffed/likewise a disease outbreak say of foot and mouth and it's a nightmare scenario

    Plus the overheads, management etc. It'll all be staffed by westerners if any of the other huge dairy farms are to go by, locals just don't have the skillsets. What crops are they planning on growing in Russia to feed the cows, maize/soya? To think NZ still knocking out milk profitably for likes of 25c/l you'd wounder why they don't just import it.


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    #9640
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    Pretty mind blowing numbers involved, you'd have to question the feasibility of it though, a failed harvest on the cropping ground and they're stuffed/likewise a disease outbreak say of foot and mouth and it's a nightmare scenario

    I'd say with farms of that scale area larger than required would be planted to build a reserve or sell if more.than is needed is grown and the cows broken down into isolated units with no contact between each to limit disease risk. Massive project but no crowd like the Chinese to drive on I'd say.

    In answer to Tim why they don't import it It's politics really on the Russian side anyways


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    #9641
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,476 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Milked out wrote: »
    I'd say with farms of that scale area larger than required would be planted to build a reserve or sell if more.than is needed is grown and the cows broken down into isolated units with no contact between each to limit disease risk. Massive project but no crowd like the Chinese to drive on I'd say.

    In answer to Tim why they don't import it It's politics really on the Russian side anyways

    Their biggest issue given that they are renting 100,000 ha of Russian land to supply crops would be 1000s of tons of grain going missing mysteriously, the corruption in Russia is on another planet


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    #9642
    visatorro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭visatorro


    mf240 mentioned his/her beef enterprise on the milk price thread. just wondering how many of ye finish cattle? even if you dont finish do many of you use belgian blue or the likes on some of your cows for a higher price calf sale or are people just happy to be rid or calves no matter what price?
    most of the bull calves here are sold fairly young. havent finished a bullock here in years.


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    #9643
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    visatorro wrote: »
    mf240 mentioned his/her beef enterprise on the milk price thread. just wondering how many of ye finish cattle? even if you dont finish do many of you use belgian blue or the likes on some of your cows for a higher price calf sale or are people just happy to be rid or calves no matter what price?
    most of the bull calves here are sold fairly young. havent finished a bullock here in years.

    All bull calves here gone before 6 weeks bar one to b vasectomised, only use bb, he and aa at end of season or in cows I don't want replacements from.


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    #9644
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,084 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    visatorro wrote: »
    mf240 mentioned his/her beef enterprise on the milk price thread. just wondering how many of ye finish cattle? even if you dont finish do many of you use belgian blue or the likes on some of your cows for a higher price calf sale or are people just happy to be rid or calves no matter what price?
    most of the bull calves here are sold fairly young. havent finished a bullock here in years.
    Keep some to 1.5 year max due to fragmented land .blues mostly with some he from my stock bull .wont make u rich but nearly always turn a few quid .handy thing in bad milk price year but wouldn't keep them at expense of milking less cows also keep some high ebi Bulls for sale which is turning into a nice little operation for me .smaller farms need more options like these and I ain't going to turn down the chance to turn a few quid on them


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    #9645
    degetme
    Registered Users Posts: 767 ✭✭✭degetme


    Keep the first half of spring born bull calves and sell before their second winter. Have fragmented farm other than that there would be more cows. Handy to have them to sell this backend with milk price going the way it is


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    #9646
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Haven't kept many last few yrs got rid when I came home because they were leaving use tight for grass and silage for cows.
    kept the angus calves this and last yr.
    Not many about 10 is all. Won't make as much off them as lads dedicated to beef but they will buy the fert fir first few rounds of the spring.
    they'll be first thing to go if grass ,silage or shed space is tight.


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    #9647
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,884 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Kept a few calves due to bren locked up, lucky in one block. Lot of the guys have fragmented land, any possibilties of land swap? Or selling and buying closer


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    #9648
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    ended up keeping a few last year which has worked out well with the madness in the mart so off loading the last of them this week.kept some this year but will be last as I need more hiefers from now on and they were kept to make the right number for a block of ground.also im of opinion cattle prices will slide from june next year.


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    #9649
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Interesting couple of posts from the last few days. I may have to go on holidays more often to help keep the posting standard high:)

    Just a quick question from a week ago. A few of you were talking about vented(?) water heaters. How are those worked, is it heat transfer from cooling milk or what?


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    #9650
    mf240
    Registered Users Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭mf240


    bHAZZTEh.jpg

    Fecking divas!!


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    #9651
    Cow Porter
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Cow Porter


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    Interesting couple of posts from the last few days. I may have to go on holidays more often to help keep the posting standard high:)

    Just a quick question from a week ago. A few of you were talking about vented(?) water heaters. How are those worked, is it heat transfer from cooling milk or what?

    No just basically a square tank, heater element on bottom, outlet above this, a float valve on top which is on timer so it fills when machine is off or whenever. At washing open the valve and dumps the water in fast, needs to be above wash trough level but they can come with a stand too unless you put a pump on it

    Can hook up heat exchanger to it aswell

    http://cotswold-dairy.co.uk/products


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    #9652
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Cow Porter wrote: »
    No just basically a square tank, heater element on bottom, outlet above this, a float valve on top which is on timer so it fills when machine is off or whenever. At washing open the valve and dumps the water in fast, needs to be above wash trough level but they can come with a stand too unless you put a pump on it

    Can hook up heat exchanger to it aswell

    http://cotswold-dairy.co.uk/products
    Thanks for that.

    It normally takes me about 15 minutes to fill a hot wash these days and over 20 minutes in August due to low mains pressure. I must look into one of those for next year:)


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    #9653
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,937 ✭✭✭alps


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    Thanks for that.

    It normally takes me about 15 minutes to fill a hot wash these days and over 20 minutes in August due to low mains pressure. I must look into one of those for next year:)

    Went to Bill O Keeffe s open day with a guy that has put in a Cotswold heater this year. He is happy out with it but had a good chat with the Flow Gas guys and came away thinking that it would have been a better option for him. Flogas own the storage tank, so all you pay for is the boiler, and the first fill of gas is free. The set up cost was similar to the cotswold, and you will never run out of hot water...unless you run out of gas.
    probably more flexible than having a set 200 litres available.


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    #9654
    Cow Porter
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Cow Porter


    got an email from volac about a new website about calf rearing, havn't had a proper look yet (maybe just an advertising ploy) but maybe one to bookmark for next spring if its still around

    http://www.feedforgrowth.com/


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    #9655
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    Cow Porter wrote: »
    got an email from volac about a new website about calf rearing, havn't had a proper look yet (maybe just an advertising ploy) but maybe one to bookmark for next spring if its still around

    http://www.feedforgrowth.com/

    Starting again here 8th oct, any of ye using auto feeders or planning to? Will be feeding g calves from Oct to may so would have a long period of use if we were to invest


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    #9656
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Milked out wrote: »
    Starting again here 8th oct, any of ye using auto feeders or planning to? Will be feeding g calves from Oct to may so would have a long period of use if we were to invest

    I use one here. Best thing since the sliced pan!


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    #9657
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,476 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Dawggone wrote: »
    I use one here. Best thing since the sliced pan!

    They are in the right hands, pure disaster if their's poor management with them some lads put them in and spend a day our two training the calves and think that's the calves sorted for the year haha


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    #9658
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Dawggone wrote: »
    I use one here. Best thing since the sliced pan!

    Some thing we're considering. One doubt I have is the wave if calves coming so fast in the spring. I know I've asked before but what's the SR per machine?

    We went adlib feeding last spring and have to say were mightily impressed with calves. Pens of 10 2 teats and a container of milk for the day.


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    #9659
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,884 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Some thing we're considering. One doubt I have is the wave if calves coming so fast in the spring. I know I've asked before but what's the SR per machine?

    We went adlib feeding last spring and have to say were mightily impressed with calves. Pens of 10 2 teats and a container of milk for the day.
    We used to do that years ago with acid through the milk, never seen calves to thrive so well


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    #9660
    awaywithyou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭awaywithyou


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Some thing we're considering. One doubt I have is the wave if calves coming so fast in the spring. I know I've asked before but what's the SR per machine?

    We went adlib feeding last spring and have to say were mightily impressed with calves. Pens of 10 2 teats and a container of milk for the day.

    could you expand that bit further if ya dont mind..! sounds like a good idea...

    and how was dara sat nite??:)


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    #9661
    Pacoa
    Registered Users Posts: 520 ✭✭✭Pacoa


    Fecking divas!!

    Ahhh a foot spa, just what i've always wanted.


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