Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

BlitzKrieg · 24-12-2020 3:58pm

Downing Street are selling it hard as everything they promised in 2016.

How soon until that gets backpeddled?

Itssoeasy · 24-12-2020 4:01pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Downing Street are selling it hard as everything they promised in 2016.

How soon until that gets backpeddled?

Probably as long as people actually start reading the thing.

axer · 24-12-2020 4:01pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Downing Street are selling it hard as everything they promised in 2016.

How soon until that gets backpeddled?

Downing Street wrote:

"Everything that the British public was promised during the 2016 referendum and in the general election last year is delivered by this deal."

"We have taken back control of our money, borders, laws, trade and our fishing waters

"The deal is fantastic news for families and businesses in every part of the UK.

"We have signed the first free trade agreement based on zero tariffs and zero quotas that has ever been achieved with the EU.

"The deal is the biggest bilateral trade deal signed by either side, covering trade worth £668bn in 2019.

"The deal also guarantees that we are no longer in the lunar pull of the EU, we are not bound by EU rules, there is no role for the European Court of Justice and all of our key red lines about returning sovereignty have been achieved.

"It means that we will have full political and economic independence on 1st January 2021."

"A points-based immigration system will put us in full control of who enters the UK and free movement will end.

"We have delivered this great deal for the entire United Kingdom in record time, and under extremely challenging conditions, which protects the integrity of our internal market and Northern Ireland’s place within it.

"We have got Brexit done and we can now take full advantage of the fantastic opportunities available to us as an independent trading nation, striking trade deals with other partners around the world."

Everything they promised has been achieved. Good one.

beggars_bush · 24-12-2020 4:02pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Downing Street are selling it hard as everything they promised in 2016.

How soon until that gets backpeddled?

"Its a fantastic deal" - downing street

Choosehowevr. · 24-12-2020 4:04pm

Do the government actually believe the deal is good?

Or is it just another ruse

Leroy42 · 24-12-2020 4:05pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

"Its a fantastic deal" - downing street

As others have pointed out there will be massive spin, on both sides but mainly UK, of this deal.

The only way to really tell is to see how things stand in a few weeks. Just like the WA, those on twitter etc have not actually seen the deal so any comments are guessing.

You won't get the truth from either the UK or EU press conferences

Dave0301 · 24-12-2020 4:06pm

Reading that press release from No 10 I can't wait to see what the meat on the bones of this trade deal is.

Sounds like a fantastic deal altogether...

Leroy42 · 24-12-2020 4:06pm

Choosehowevr. wrote: »

Do the government actually believe the deal is good?

Or is it just another ruse

Doesn't matter. It only matters if they believe they can convince others that it is a good deal.

BlitzKrieg · 24-12-2020 4:06pm

EU is still in fishing fully for next 5 and half years and we dont know the terms after, so can kicked there.

Level playing field is in effect.

So what did the UK get out of this?

Beechwoodspark · 24-12-2020 4:07pm

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Deal done. Pressers at 3pm. I expect ERG et al to be screaming treason by 9pm tonight.

Boris has a big majority so they are in the sidelines

beggars_bush · 24-12-2020 4:07pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

EU is still in fishing fully for next 5 and half years and we dont know the terms after, so can kicked there.

Level playing field is in effect.

So what did the UK get out of this?

Blue passports

Strazdas · 24-12-2020 4:08pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Doesn't matter. It only matters if they believe they can convince others that it is a good deal.

Matt Cooper remarked today that everything Johnson says about the deal will be a lie : that should be your only reference point.

Beechwoodspark · 24-12-2020 4:09pm

The whole thing has been choreographed.

All PR as per usual with BoJo

landofthetree · 24-12-2020 4:09pm

Boris has got a great fisheries deal, said goodbye to the ECJ, full control over GB borders and a free trade deal.

RTE in tears. Clinging to the believe that the mickey mouse states can object. FFS.

Diplomats from EU member states, which would have to approve any technical agreement, were less optimistic however, warning that they still needed to see a text and that problems may remain.

Professor Moriarty · 24-12-2020 4:11pm

landofthetree wrote: »

Boris has got a great fisheries deal, said goodbye to the ECJ, full control over GB borders and a free trade deal.

RTE in tears. Clinging to the believe that the mickey mouse states can object. FFS.

Well done the UK. Wishing them the very best of luck. Bye bye.

Choosehowevr. · 24-12-2020 4:11pm

Strazdas wrote: »

Matt Cooper remarked today that everything Johnson says about the deal will be a lie : that should be your only reference point.

Hmm!

fash · 24-12-2020 4:15pm

Christy42 wrote: »

If that is true then it is simply a permanent transition agreement. In the EU in all but name. If true obviously.

No - they don't get the benefits of membership - no freedom of movement, no freedom of services, no access to security databases or ability to return refugees- the things that are most important to them.

BlitzKrieg · 24-12-2020 4:17pm

All I am hearing is a bunch of can kicking. Everything seems to be staying as it currently is in terms of fishing, trade etc but will be looked at again in 4/5 years

Cody montana · 24-12-2020 4:18pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

All I am hearing is a bunch of can kicking. Everything seems to be staying as it currently is in terms of fishing, trade etc but will be looked at again in 4/5 years

Brexiteers won’t be happy.
But what’s new.

gifted · 24-12-2020 4:19pm

So fast forward 5 years and it turns out that the UK is doing well....good economy..low unemployment..etc etc...what are the chances of other countries like Holland..Spain...France looking at the UK and saying " Let's leave as well"......

20silkcut · 24-12-2020 4:19pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

All I am hearing is a bunch of can kicking. Everything seems to be staying as it currently is in terms of fishing, trade etc but will be looked at again in 4/5 years

That’s a good result

landofthetree · 24-12-2020 4:20pm

fash wrote: »

No - they don't get the benefits of membership - no freedom of movement, no freedom of services, no access to security databases or ability to return refugees- the things that are most important to them.

How many British go live in the EU countries? A sizeable number but they prefer Auz,Canada,NZ etc.

Just like the Irish.

BlitzKrieg · 24-12-2020 4:21pm

So from what I can follow (when it was in english)

Fishing stays as it currently is but will be renegotiated in 5.5 years

Level playing field and access remains as it currently does but the UK will have the opportunity to negotiate terms in 4-5 years.

It's a can kick, it's all a ****ing can kick. Typical Boris

landofthetree · 24-12-2020 4:21pm

gifted wrote: »

So fast forward 5 years and it turns out that the UK is doing well....good economy..low unemployment..etc etc...what are the chances of other countries like Holland..Spain...France looking at the UK and saying " Let's leave as well"......

The Euro makes it much more difficult to leave.

devnull · 24-12-2020 4:21pm

landofthetree wrote: »

How many British go live in the EU countries? A sizeable number but they prefer Auz,Canada,NZ etc.

Just like the Irish.

Plenty of British in Spain.

alchemist33 · 24-12-2020 4:21pm

landofthetree wrote: »

Boris has got a great fisheries deal, said goodbye to the ECJ, full control over GB borders and a free trade deal.

RTE in tears. Clinging to the believe that the mickey mouse states can object. FFS.

Yeah, RTE really don't care.

wpd · 24-12-2020 4:22pm

am i missing something here
so the UK must maintain the same standards as the EU in order to have free trade access to EU market however they no longer
have to pay to the EU gravy train, they can control migration from other EU countries.
they can do trade deals with rest of world as long as it is inline with EU trade deals and they have slightly restricted EU access to fish in their waters.
SO tell me what has the UK lost in real terms that is detrimental to them, I just cant see what it is???

briany · 24-12-2020 4:23pm

I remember David Davis saying, what seems like a long time ago now, "There will be a fudge..."

VinLieger · 24-12-2020 4:25pm

wpd wrote: »

am i missing something here
so the UK must maintain the same standards as the EU in order to have free trade access to EU market however they no longer
have to pay to the EU gravy train, they can control migration from other EU countries.
they can do trade deals with rest of world as long as it is inline with EU trade deals and they have slightly restricted EU access to fish in their waters.
SO tell me what has the UK lost in real terms that is detrimental to them, I just cant see what it is???

They have no say in the rules and standards? I think theres a word they used for describing it, now what was it? Oh yeah Sovereignty what this was all supposedly about.

landofthetree · 24-12-2020 4:26pm

devnull wrote: »

Plenty of British in Spain.

Around 250,000. A sizeable number alright.

1.2million live in Auz.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-36299682

suicide_circus · 24-12-2020 4:29pm

Whats the crack with the North???

Beechwoodspark · 24-12-2020 4:29pm

Johnson spinning up a storm

BlitzKrieg · 24-12-2020 4:30pm

wpd wrote: »

am i missing something here
so the UK must maintain the same standards as the EU in order to have free trade access to EU market however they no longer
have to pay to the EU gravy train, they can control migration from other EU countries.

My understanding is they do still have to pay in for the cooperation services they are part of. Freedom of movement is the only area I'm not sure about as no one has said anything about it.

This isnt a win for the UK, it's a secret extension of the transition period so Boris could save face on his "no extension" bravado.

PokeHerKing · 24-12-2020 4:30pm

landofthetree wrote: »

Around 250,000. A sizeable number alright.

1.2million live in Auz.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-36299682

750k in Spain. Second only to Australia. 250k is France, same amount as Canada/NZ etc

PokeHerKing · 24-12-2020 4:31pm

wpd wrote: »

am i missing something here
so the UK must maintain the same standards as the EU in order to have free trade access to EU market however they no longer
have to pay to the EU gravy train, they can control migration from other EU countries.
they can do trade deals with rest of world as long as it is inline with EU trade deals and they have slightly restricted EU access to fish in their waters.
SO tell me what has the UK lost in real terms that is detrimental to them, I just cant see what it is???

They used to have the 6 counties.

Sierra Oscar · 24-12-2020 4:32pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Johnson spinning up a storm

He needs to. UK now bound indefinitely to future negotiations when they need to deviate on standards, including when the EU strengthens its own standards.

Antwerpian · 24-12-2020 4:32pm

fash wrote: »

No - they don't get the benefits of membership - no freedom of movement, no freedom of services, no access to security databases or ability to return refugees- the things that are most important to them.

The Brexiteers
FOM --- didnt want it
Services --- The city isnt as bothered as you think
Security Databases -- The UK security services believe they can go solo or just get back door access they also believe the EuroSecurity is untrustworthy
Return Refugees -- Look at the ERG , they won't be saving drowning refugees

These people see what ordinary decent human beings see as natural as anathema.

Sorry to be so negative.
As a Briton who's been enjoying the benefits of the EEC/EU for most if my life, living and working throughout Europe fir the past 21 years, I fail to see how else I can be

Hurrache · 24-12-2020 4:32pm

landofthetree wrote: »

RTE in tears. Clinging to the believe that the mickey mouse states can object. FFS.

Not quite sure your take is accurate, what does this even mean?

devnull · 24-12-2020 4:33pm

Full Agreement has now been published here:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_2531

Checklist on what they have vs a full member here:
https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1342129505540984837

An Ciarraioch · 24-12-2020 4:34pm

landofthetree wrote: »

Boris has got a great fisheries deal, said goodbye to the ECJ, full control over GB borders and a free trade deal.

RTE in tears. Clinging to the believe that the mickey mouse states can object. FFS.

How is 25% quota and 5.5 years of the status quo "a great fisheries deal"?

landofthetree · 24-12-2020 4:34pm

PokeHerKing wrote: »

750k in Spain. Second only to Australia. 250k is France, same amount as Canada/NZ etc

In 2017, 69% of British citizens living in the EU lived in Spain (37%), France (19%) or Germany (12%). The largest portion, 293,500, lived in Spain

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/livingabroad/april2018#where-are-british-citizens-living-in-the-eu

Hurrache · 24-12-2020 4:35pm

The loss of recognition of British professional qualifications and financial passporting is a huge loss for them, as too is the single energy market.

tanko · 24-12-2020 4:38pm

Now for the sprouts.
Over to you Laura.

Just about sums the whole thing up.

Professor Moriarty · 24-12-2020 4:41pm

Fish is the biggest achievement according to Johnson.

VinLieger · 24-12-2020 4:42pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Fish is the biggest achievement according to Johnson.

Wave the flag harder!!!! "RULE BRITTANIA....."

landofthetree · 24-12-2020 4:42pm

Hurrache wrote: »

The loss of recognition of British professional qualifications and financial passporting is a huge loss for them, as too is the single energy market.

Engineers wont.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Accord

PokeHerKing · 24-12-2020 4:43pm

landofthetree wrote: »

In 2017, 69% of British citizens living in the EU lived in Spain (37%), France (19%) or Germany (12%). The largest portion, 293,500, lived in Spain

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/livingabroad/april2018#where-are-british-citizens-living-in-the-eu

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/brits_abroad/html/default.stm

Choosehowevr. · 24-12-2020 4:43pm

landofthetree wrote: »

How many British go live in the EU countries? A sizeable number but they prefer Auz,Canada,NZ etc.

Just like the Irish.

Spain

Hurrache · 24-12-2020 4:44pm

Seems to be a consensus from UK analysts that it's not a great deal, not that it could even be one anyway, and Johnson is just waffling with little factual accuracy.

uptherebels · 24-12-2020 4:44pm

landofthetree wrote: »

Engineers wont.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Accord

Engineering technologist.
Not engineers

Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

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