Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
View Poll Results: Who Will The Dems pick in 2020
Harris 51 6.12%
Bernie 205 24.61%
Clinton 26 3.12%
Brooker 8 0.96%
Biden 348 41.78%
Gillbrand 6 0.72%
Oprah! 41 4.92%
Warren 85 10.20%
Klobuchar 7 0.84%
Michelle Obama 44 5.28%
Cuomo 12 1.44%
Voters: 833. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
20-09-2020, 14:13   #6466
Manic Moran
Moderator
 
Manic Moran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,214
It is a stupid and unnecessary principle which McConnell should have never said in the first place, which I believe most Democrats observed correctly at the time. They aren’t going to be running on that principle because they believe in it, they are running on the schoolyard principle of “well, he did it first”

Given that the Democrats seem unable to actually stop the process, do they really want to antagonize, if nothing else, the Caribbean Hispanic population in places like Florida by supporting what most people know to be a disingenuous principle in an impotent attempt to prevent someone that population considers to be “for the first time, one of us” (Sotomayor is North Eastern), only to see a candidate confirmed in December anyway?

Last edited by Manic Moran; 20-09-2020 at 14:18.
Manic Moran is offline  
Advertisement
20-09-2020, 15:04   #6467
Brussels Sprout
Registered User
 
Brussels Sprout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic Moran View Post
Given that the Democrats seem unable to actually stop the process, do they really want to antagonize, if nothing else, the Caribbean Hispanic population in places like Florida by supporting what most people know to be a disingenuous principle in an impotent attempt to prevent someone that population considers to be “for the first time, one of us” (Sotomayor is North Eastern), only to see a candidate confirmed in December anyway?
If the Republicans go ahead and stick an arch-conservative on there then the last thing the Democrats should do is go along with that. That is the mistake that they have made over and over again since 2009 - giving in to the Republicans in the hope that they'll be rewarded in the future either by the Republicans reciprocating or the voters acknowledging it. Instead the Republicans have ruthlessly taken advantage of that stance and there has been no thanks from the voters.

This isn't "The West Wing". There's no appealing to the better nature of a party who elected Donald Trump as their standard bearer and have Mitch McConnell as their Senate majority leader. The Democrats need to fight, not roll over for fear of losing Florida. They'd probably end up losing it anyway.

As others have pointed out it doesn't look like they have any power to stop this but they need to be seen to fight it - both to fire up their own base and spread awareness amongst low information voters about the double standards. The Kavanaugh hearings happened 2 months before the mid-term elections and by all account they galvanised a lot of Democrats into turning out in numbers not typically seen for those types of elections and decimating the Republicans in House suburban districts.
Brussels Sprout is offline  
20-09-2020, 17:29   #6468
StringerBell
Registered User
 
StringerBell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 10,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic Moran View Post
It is a stupid and unnecessary principle which McConnell should have never said in the first place, which I believe most Democrats observed correctly at the time. They aren’t going to be running on that principle because they believe in it, they are running on the schoolyard principle of “well, he did it first”

Given that the Democrats seem unable to actually stop the process, do they really want to antagonize, if nothing else, the Caribbean Hispanic population in places like Florida by supporting what most people know to be a disingenuous principle in an impotent attempt to prevent someone that population considers to be “for the first time, one of us” (Sotomayor is North Eastern), only to see a candidate confirmed in December anyway?

It's irrelevant, it's what McConnell and other republican senators decided in 2016 so complaining about asking them to maintain the same standards they set (according to Cruz they hadn't confirmed one in the previous 80 years during an election year) is s bit rich. Typical of course, but still, rich.

Your second paragraph is pure conjecture based on a supposed candidate, and whoever the candidate is. Yes, they should delay it and drag it out procedurally as much as the republicans would. **** em tbh and it's something that can be run on v senators too, more good than bad.
StringerBell is offline  
Thanks from:
20-09-2020, 22:05   #6469
Water John
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 16,243
Latest swing states polling:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e-swing-states

Biden seems to be opening a small gap in Florida.
Water John is online now  
(2) thanks from:
20-09-2020, 23:08   #6470
StringerBell
Registered User
 
StringerBell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 10,369
Good and bad there. Amazing how red Ohio is becoming though as it goes(I know its tightened, a general comment), Wisconsin looks good at 50%+ for Biden, Arizona narrowing again should be cause for concern I'd imagine. Michigan looking strong for Biden too and that North Carolina is holding steady is an interesting one. Florida is ****ing nuts regardless, it will be down to the wire on election day there as it always is.
StringerBell is offline  
Advertisement
20-09-2020, 23:23   #6471
ExMachina1000
Registered User
 
ExMachina1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 1,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Water John View Post
Latest swing states polling:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e-swing-states

Biden seems to be opening a small gap in Florida.
Bloomberg's money I would imagine. He is pumping at least 100 million dollars into Florida alone to help get Biden over the line
ExMachina1000 is offline  
20-09-2020, 23:27   #6472
letowski
Registered User
 
letowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Good and bad there. Amazing how red Ohio is becoming though as it goes(I know its tightened, a general comment), Wisconsin looks good at 50%+ for Biden, Arizona narrowing again should be cause for concern I'd imagine. Michigan looking strong for Biden too and that North Carolina is holding steady is an interesting one. Florida is ****ing nuts regardless, it will be down to the wire on election day there as it always is.
I'd say there is a good chance was won't know the final result in Florida on election day.
letowski is online now  
20-09-2020, 23:55   #6473
StringerBell
Registered User
 
StringerBell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 10,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by letowski View Post
I'd say there is a good chance was won't know the final result in Florida on election day.
I'd say we will this time around and apparently it's expected around 8.30/9pm election night.
StringerBell is offline  
20-09-2020, 23:59   #6474
TomOnBoard
Registered User
 
TomOnBoard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic Moran View Post
It is a stupid and unnecessary principle which McConnell should have never said in the first place, which I believe most Democrats observed correctly at the time. They aren’t going to be running on that principle because they believe in it, they are running on the schoolyard principle of “well, he did it first”

Given that the Democrats seem unable to actually stop the process, do they really want to antagonize, if nothing else, the Caribbean Hispanic population in places like Florida by supporting what most people know to be a disingenuous principle in an impotent attempt to prevent someone that population considers to be “for the first time, one of us” (Sotomayor is North Eastern), only to see a candidate confirmed in December anyway?
I'm a bit confused, Manic... Has Lagoa been announced as the nominee which this argument seems to rely upon?
TomOnBoard is online now  
Advertisement
21-09-2020, 00:02   #6475
Tell me how
Registered User
 
Tell me how's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Good and bad there. Amazing how red Ohio is becoming though as it goes(I know its tightened, a general comment), Wisconsin looks good at 50%+ for Biden, Arizona narrowing again should be cause for concern I'd imagine. Michigan looking strong for Biden too and that North Carolina is holding steady is an interesting one. Florida is ****ing nuts regardless, it will be down to the wire on election day there as it always is.
I was in a shop in Mid-Massachusetts last week and someone came in without a mask and the person working there said they had to put one on. They went out to their car and got one and came in and explained, 'I understand you have to do all that crap, I'm from Ohio and we're doing none of that at home. It's ok though, this will all go away when Trump wins in November, just wait and see. They're trying to use this to make him look bad'.

I wanted to ask were all the deaths in Italy part of the plan as well.
Tell me how is offline  
(2) thanks from:
21-09-2020, 00:12   #6476
TomOnBoard
Registered User
 
TomOnBoard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by eire4 View Post
Firstly the Republicans already control the supreme court. What is in play now is a powerful 6-3 majority with another far right activist judge who will be around for a lot longer then the next decade. The US has for a while now been lurching further and further to the right as a country and this situation will allow the Republicans to push their anti democratic agenda on steroids. Watch for a mass of voter suppression laws being enacted at state level as an example and if anything is challenged the so called supreme court will be basically a rubber stamp to allow it.
What is particularly scary for Ireland and the world is that not only will the US lurch even further to the far right but we are likely to see this take on a very much ominous authoritarian tone as we have seen increasingly the past few years.
If you look at the Supreme Court in terms of Liberal vs Conservative on a scale from 1-9 where, arguably, Roberts tries to be 5, Ginsburg was 1 or 2. Her opinions served as a supra-legal challenge to Conservatism that has now been lost.

If she is now replaced by a very Conservative Justice, such as Barrett, its not just that the Court's make-up in terms of their originating politics simply moves from 5-4 to 6-3 on some needle... Its about the loss of the opposing thought, which would have made its way into opinion, even those to which she would have dissented!

Now, thats seismic!
TomOnBoard is online now  
21-09-2020, 08:43   #6477
Quin_Dub
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomOnBoard View Post
I'm a bit confused, Manic... Has Lagoa been announced as the nominee which this argument seems to rely upon?
Lagoa is on his short list and he said he would likely nominate a woman.

There's only her and Coney-Barrett on the list he released a few weeks back.

Of the 2 , Lagoa is the only one that could really help him in a swing state.

She's a Cuban American from Florida , Biden is already under pressure with that voting block so forcing him and the Democrats to argue against her nomination could swing Florida to Trump.

Trump cannot win without Florida - I know lots of people are talking up Coney-Barrett , but I'd tend to agree with Manic - Lagoa is the more politically beneficial nomination for Trump personally.
Quin_Dub is offline  
(3) thanks from:
21-09-2020, 08:55   #6478
salmocab
Registered User
 
salmocab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quin_Dub View Post
Lagoa is on his short list and he said he would likely nominate a woman.

There's only her and Coney-Barrett on the list he released a few weeks back.

Of the 2 , Lagoa is the only one that could really help him in a swing state.

She's a Cuban American from Florida , Biden is already under pressure with that voting block so forcing him and the Democrats to argue against her nomination could swing Florida to Trump.

Trump cannot win without Florida - I know lots of people are talking up Coney-Barrett , but I'd tend to agree with Manic - Lagoa is the more politically beneficial nomination for Trump personally.
Although this shows American politics for the cess pool it is, appointing a SCJ to win votes is everything that’s wrong with the worst democratic process on the planet.
salmocab is online now  
(3) thanks from:
21-09-2020, 09:26   #6479
Quin_Dub
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by salmocab View Post
Although this shows American politics for the cess pool it is, appointing a SCJ to win votes is everything that’s wrong with the worst democratic process on the planet.
Absolutely agree with you.

But everything is political in the US , virtually every role in their society is an elected position.

Roles that everywhere else are just standard issue Civil Service mid-level mgmt positions are subject to election campaigns and the candidates are aligned to political parties. It's crazy.

We go to the polls and at worst we might have 2 or maybe 3 things to vote on. People will go to the polls in the US and they are voting for literally dozens of things each time .
Quin_Dub is offline  
Thanks from:
21-09-2020, 09:30   #6480
correct horse battery staple
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quin_Dub View Post
We go to the polls and at worst we might have 2 or maybe 3 things to vote on. People will go to the polls in the US and they are voting for literally dozens of things each time .
There is nothing wrong with that imho

The problem is not that they get to vote for multiple positions all way from local to federal

The problem is that unlike Ireland they do not have proportional representation with a single transferable vote. This means you endup with a polarized two party outcomes at all levels, there is no room for political coalitions and compromises which make Irish system so resilient to the type of polarization we seen in UK and US (tho Sinn Fein are trying hard to drag us into the same political cesspool)
correct horse battery staple is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet