Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

blackwhite · 19-05-2020 9:52am

Darc19 wrote: »

That is utter bs spouted by some tabloid morons that did not have a clue.

Yes it is regarded as income the same way as unemployment benefit is regarded as income. But as the weekly tax free allowance is over €350, no tax liability accrues.

But likewise, you cannot have the further benefits of your tax free allowance during the covid period for normal earnings at future dates.

Eg, if you get covid payment for 10 weeks, then those 10 weeks of your tfa are effectively cancelled

For someone spouting about "morons that did not have a clue" you seem to be mixing up the UK tax system with the Irish one.

We don't have tax-free allowances in Ireland - we have tax credits. They are an annual credit.

blackwhite · 19-05-2020 10:00am

Darc19 wrote: »

The tax system works in real time now. It will be automatically adjusted so that €350 of tax free earnings allowance will not be able to be used for earnings after you have returned to work.

So many people don't understand the tax system. Tabloid journalists and fakebook fools started this rubbish and simply had not a clue.

Stop posting complete and utter boll*x about the tax system - which you very clearly don't understand yourself.

We don't have tax-free allowances in Ireland. We have tax credits.

The individual tax credit is €1650 for the year - this is not adjusted.

There is a PAYE tax credit of €1650 for anyone who was in any PAYE employment at any point during the year, and once their overall earings are over €8,250 then it cannot be pro-rated

SAMTALK · 19-05-2020 11:20am

At the end of the wage subsidy is it possible that we get a tax bill from Revenue with due amount on it and can be paid in one go or will it have to be done by tax credit system

blackwhite · 19-05-2020 11:51am

SAMTALK wrote: »

At the end of the wage subsidy is it possible that we get a tax bill from Revenue with due amount on it and can be paid in one go or will it have to be done by tax credit system

The guidance to date hasn't been particularly clear on the options.

When an end of the year review takes place, it may be the case that an employee’s unused tax credits will cover any further liability that may arise. Where this is not the case, and should an Income Tax liability arise, it is normal Revenue practice to collect any tax owing in manageable amounts by reducing an individual’s tax credits for a future year(s) in order to minimise any hardship. Additionally, if an individual has any additional tax credits to claim, for example health expenses, this will also reduce any tax that may be owing.

Normal practice would allow for the option to make a payment against income tax at the time of the end of year review - but it hasn't been explicitly addressed yet.

The_Chap · 19-05-2020 11:52am

SAMTALK wrote: »

At the end of the wage subsidy is it possible that we get a tax bill from Revenue with due amount on it and can be paid in one go or will it have to be done by tax credit system

Indeed, rest assured the Revenue will know exactly what was paid to who and will reconcile accordingly, how they will collect what is due has yet to be determined.

Whether or not the wage subsidy should be taxed or not is purely open to individual's opinion, however Revenue's decision will be final, I can't see why they would treat it any differently to all the other benefit payments

snowgal · 19-05-2020 11:54am

SAMTALK wrote: »

At the end of the wage subsidy is it possible that we get a tax bill from Revenue with due amount on it and can be paid in one go or will it have to be done by tax credit system

peoples tax will be calculated at the end of the year. For some they may have a decent amount owing for others (particularly in minimum wage bracket) they will have a small enough amount owing. Revenue has said this will be deducted form your payslip in the coming years. So any tax owed will be deducted in small amounts over a long period. They wont be knocking on your door on the 31/12 looking for the money back straight away...

SAMTALK · 19-05-2020 12:08pm

snowgal wrote: »

peoples tax will be calculated at the end of the year. For some they may have a decent amount owing for others (particularly in minimum wage bracket) they will have a small enough amount owing. Revenue has said this will be deducted form your payslip in the coming years. So any tax owed will be deducted in small amounts over a long period. They wont be knocking on your door on the 31/12 looking for the money back straight away...

I'm working all along and company is availing of wage subsidy scheme but wages have changed in the last 2 week. We are supposed to be on the same wage so needless to say we checked it out.

It looks like they have held back some of our money which we were putting aside for paying the tax bill so am wondering what can be done.

We have explained that this money is ours to put away / spend but seem to be getting no where

wazzer1 · 19-05-2020 12:15pm

I'm paid monthly and contacted revenue about tax back received last month. They said I was due it and wont needed be paid back, but they were putting me on week 1 from now on which means I wont receive any further tax back I'm not due. Might be worth contacting revenue and see what they say

SAMTALK · 19-05-2020 12:29pm

wazzer1 wrote: »

I'm paid monthly and contacted revenue about tax back received last month. They said I was due it and wont needed be paid back, but they were putting me on week 1 from now on which means I wont receive any further tax back I'm not due. Might be worth contacting revenue and see what they say

Thought Revenue were not answering phones ?

Thanks will give them a try

wazzer1 · 19-05-2020 5:10pm

SAMTALK wrote: »

Thought Revenue were not answering phones ?

Thanks will give them a try

No theyll only contact through revenue online service

MargoChanning · 20-05-2020 8:23pm

Question about the Wage Subsidy Scheme and working hours being reduced:
My partner was told his entire workplace were being put on a 3 day week, but his employer had applied for the wage subsidy scheme and would be getting 85% of their wage and would top up the remainder.
Then yesterday my partner and a couple of his colleagues were asked would they do their normal 5 day working week and not reduce their hours.
So am I correct in thinking that the people working a 3 day week, will come out with the same wage as my partner, even though he has been requested to work 5 days?
Seems unfair!

Alrigghtythen · 20-05-2020 8:38pm

MargoChanning wrote: »

Question about the Wage Subsidy Scheme and working hours being reduced:
My partner was told his entire workplace were being put on a 3 day week, but his employer had applied for the wage subsidy scheme and would be getting 85% of their wage and would top up the remainder.
Then yesterday my partner and a couple of his colleagues were asked would they do their normal 5 day working week and not reduce their hours.
So am I correct in thinking that the people working a 3 day week, will come out with the same wage as my partner, even though he has been requested to work 5 days?
Seems unfair!

Your partner would still be coming out with the same pre virus wage for the same amount of hours worked.

MargoChanning · 20-05-2020 8:54pm

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Your partner would still be coming out with the same pre virus wage for the same amount of hours worked.

Yeah, it’s just kind of inequitable isn’t it? He would be getting the same wage for doing the 3 day week- it’s not creating much encouragement for him to do a 5 day week when most of his colleagues will be working 3 days and coming out with the same wage.

Alrigghtythen · 20-05-2020 9:06pm

MargoChanning wrote: »

Yeah, it’s just kind of inequitable isn’t it? He would be getting the same wage for doing the 3 day week- it’s not creating much encouragement for him to do a 5 day week when most of his colleagues will be working 3 days and coming out with the same wage.

Well speaking as a taxpayer who has worked 100% through the crisis I think its inequitable of your partner to expect reduced working hours with a top up from the government. Why doesnt he just explain to his employer his role can be done in 3 days/week and take the pay cut to match?

MargoChanning · 20-05-2020 9:12pm

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Well speaking as a taxpayer who has worked 100% through the crisis I think its inequitable of your partner to expect reduced working hours with a top up from the government. Why doesnt he just explain to his employer his role can be done in 3 days/week and take the pay cut to match?

I’m speaking about the employer effectively creating a two tier system in the workplace, by allowing 90% of the workforce work a 3 day week for the same wage as a small minority who are being expected to work 5 days for the same amount. This was also done on the sly, as the employer didn’t confirm participation in the wage subsidy scheme until today, which is the last working day for the employees who are on a 3 day week.

My partner has also worked 100% through this crisis, thank you very much- not sure what relevance that has?

ilovespudss · 20-05-2020 10:00pm

MargoChanning wrote: »

I’m speaking about the employer effectively creating a two tier system in the workplace, by allowing 90% of the workforce work a 3 day week for the same wage as a small minority who are being expected to work 5 days for the same amount. This was also done on the sly, as the employer didn’t confirm participation in the wage subsidy scheme until today, which is the last working day for the employees who are on a 3 day week.

My partner has also worked 100% through this crisis, thank you very much- not sure what relevance that has?

Personally I think that's short term thinking. I'd be stepping back and reassessing. Yes, your husband could be currently working 3 days instead of 5 for the same money, but ultimately he's working the same hours for the same money as he was previously. Hard to see why you would feel hard done here.

He's in the 10% of that companies employees that management see as being vital to the company trading in the current climate. When the wage subsidy scheme ends in the near future, businesses up and down the country will have a choice to make on whether they can trade and pay staff as normal or if they will need to let people go to balance the books. It sounds like your husband is in a good position when that decision is being made.

Also, if the company is topping up those on a 3 day week fully, which they are not required to do, they would appear to be a decent company to work for. They could easily be making a cash saving there but are choosing not to.

The only way the company can make that arrangement more 'equitable', in your words, is to reduce other members of staff voluntary top ups and so reduce their take home pay. As this would have no impact on your husbands income I can't see what benefit it would be to him or the economy.

Just my view on it

MargoChanning · 20-05-2020 10:11pm

ilovespudss wrote: »

Personally I think that's short term thinking. I'd be stepping back and reassessing. Yes, your husband could be currently working 3 days instead of 5 for the same money, but ultimately he's working the same hours for the same money as he was previously. Hard to see why you would feel hard done here.

He's in the 10% of that companies employees that management see as being vital to the company trading in the current climate. When the wage subsidy scheme ends in the near future, businesses up and down the country will have a choice to make on whether they can trade and pay staff as normal or if they will need to let people go to balance the books. It sounds like your husband is in a good position when that decision is being made.

Also, if the company is topping up those on a 3 day week fully, which they are not required to do, they would appear to be a decent company to work for. They could easily be making a cash saving there but are choosing not to.

The only way the company can make that arrangement more 'equitable', in your words, is to reduce other members of staff voluntary top ups and so reduce their take home pay. As this would have no impact on your husbands income I can't see what benefit it would be to him or the economy.

Just my view on it

Ah I know, that’s my view on it as well to be honest. I was just being devils advocate, and also wondering had Revenue considered the implications of this situation being created in a workplace where only some of the staff on reduced hours, and the rest doing a normal weeks work, and all coming out with the same wage.

Seve OB · 21-05-2020 12:38pm

I have reinstated a leaver... who only left because they were not entitled to go on the scheme as they were a higher earner

i have ran the mos recent import from revenue.

it will not process a covid payment for these people even though they are now entitled to it

monthly payroll run, sage micropay

anyone come across this and figure out how to get around it?

je551e · 21-05-2020 3:08pm

Question for Collsoft if available thanks:

ARWNP per revenue is 580
Gov Sub claimed by employer is 406

Max top amount is 174 is 30%

Now employer states my normal net pay is 450 but because I receive commission in Jan/feb which by the way is regular, I am only allowed a max top up of 450-406 = 44.

Is this correct? many thanks.

doc22 · 21-05-2020 3:22pm

je551e wrote: »

Question for Collsoft if available thanks:

ARWNP per revenue is 580
Gov Sub claimed by employer is 406

Max top amount is 174 is 30%

Now employer states my normal net pay is 450 but because I receive commission in Jan/feb which by the way is regular, I am only allowed a max top up of 450-406 = 44.

Is this correct? many thanks.

Your allowed the 174 the employer only wants to pay you 44

je551e · 21-05-2020 3:25pm

doc22 wrote: »

Your allowed the 174 the employer only wants to pay you 44

Thanks thought so

collsoft · 21-05-2020 6:32pm

Hi Je551,

Indeed Doc_22 is correct, you are allowed to be topped up to your ARNWP

je551e wrote: »

Question for Collsoft if available thanks:

ARWNP per revenue is 580
Gov Sub claimed by employer is 406

Max top amount is 174 is 30%

Now employer states my normal net pay is 450 but because I receive commission in Jan/feb which by the way is regular, I am only allowed a max top up of 450-406 = 44.

Is this correct? many thanks.

collsoft · 21-05-2020 6:35pm

Hi Seve_OB

There could be a couple of reasons why this might be the case.

In order to qualify for the subsidy you must satisfy the following;

1) The Gross Pay in this period must be at least 20% lower than the ARNWP

And

2) The Gross Pay must be less than €960 per week (or €4160 per month)

Finally, it could also be the case that you are entitled to a subsidy, but because of tapering the subsidy is being wiped out completely in which case you revert back to the normal PRSI class

Jason

Seve OB wrote: »

I have reinstated a leaver... who only left because they were not entitled to go on the scheme as they were a higher earner

i have ran the mos recent import from revenue.

it will not process a covid payment for these people even though they are now entitled to it

monthly payroll run, sage micropay

anyone come across this and figure out how to get around it?

Seve OB · 21-05-2020 8:14pm

got it sorted and figured out how to override,
i got onto revenue who gave me the ok as long as it was correct (it is, top etc all under thresholds)
he said that it actually takes a day or 2 for system to update the csv file once you request a rpn and i only did that today
he also said they plan to issue new rpns next monday across the board with changes/updates/reconciliations

shelladoo · 22-05-2020 12:19pm

Our company is one of the unfortunate ones who had an amendment made to the payroll submission which has made us ineligible for the scheme. This is despite the fact that we have lost 95% of turnover so can't afford to restart business without having access to the scheme. Its ludicrous that they say that the scheme is there to support business but yet there is no appeals process that you can do and that a simple adjustment before all this happened can have such devastating impact on a business. Revenue just keep spouting the rules "an amendment was made so you aren't eligible" - without looking at the reality of the situation for all the employees affected. If the scheme is widened to include those on maternity in February, surely it should include people too who were physically working during the period and had payslips but are now out of work because of it.

snowgal · 22-05-2020 12:37pm

what was the amendment made? Havent heard about that. Surely they should be encouraging as many businesses as possible to twss?

Seve OB · 22-05-2020 12:53pm

that sounds very odd
they did want amendments submitted because it would cause confusion but i did hear of them allowing some
what was amended? i think there must be more to this than a simple amendment

jj.vita · 05-06-2020 9:48am

Hi, my employer pays me the wage subsidy of €350, and doesn’t top up my wages. I work 6 days per week approx 50 hours (more than before The Pandemic started, where I used to work 5 and 6 days every second week). I know that employer’s are not required to make the top up to my wages, but is it legal that I’m only being paid €7 per hour?

kennethsmyth · 05-06-2020 11:58am

Nope, the minimum wage has not been stopped by the emergency legislation. Its still €10.10 an hour.

The covid payment under TWSS is between the employer and governement, your salary is not affected unless you let it be. However the choice could be paid something and continue to have a job or not have a job - however again this is your decision the employer should be paying salary related to hours worked.

Beasty · 05-06-2020 7:05pm

Threads merged

Seve OB · 05-06-2020 7:10pm

have an employee due back the week after next from maternity leave.
we are just going to put her on the covid payment along with everyone else.
nothing on the csv import file for her.
does anyone know the protocol here?

eh i dunno · 05-06-2020 7:58pm

jj.vita wrote: »

Hi, my employer pays me the wage subsidy of €350, and doesn’t top up my wages. I work 6 days per week approx 50 hours (more than before The Pandemic started, where I used to work 5 and 6 days every second week). I know that employer’s are not required to make the top up to my wages, but is it legal that I’m only being paid €7 per hour?

I would be finding a new job. No one should work for €7 an hour. Is it all employees or just you?

c.p.w.g.w · 05-06-2020 8:02pm

eh i dunno wrote: »

I would be finding a new job. No one should work for €7 an hour. Is it all employees or just you?

Hearing plenty of stories, were employers are only giving staff 70%, not topping it up but staff are doing more work than pre-covid19...

eh i dunno · 05-06-2020 8:10pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Hearing plenty of stories, were employers are only giving staff 70%, not topping it up but staff are doing more work than pre-covid19...

Unfortunately that's true. Employers hold all the power now after employees held all the aces over the last few years with full employment. You can guarantee wage cuts will be on the table next especially when the covid payments end.

je551e · 05-06-2020 8:13pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Hearing plenty of stories, were employers are only giving staff 70%, not topping it up but staff are doing more work than pre-covid19...

Lots of employers exploiting this . Employees should receive the same hourly rate at a minimum , IMO hours should be reduced to match the reduction in salaries or some agreement put in place to pay back the employee the extra hours worked.
Some employers think they can do this without any repercussions. There needs to be agreement between employees and employers and the employee needs to be fully aware of how their salary has been reduced.

Lundstram · 05-06-2020 8:48pm

jj.vita wrote: »

Hi, my employer pays me the wage subsidy of €350, and doesn’t top up my wages. I work 6 days per week approx 50 hours (more than before The Pandemic started, where I used to work 5 and 6 days every second week). I know that employer’s are not required to make the top up to my wages, but is it legal that I’m only being paid €7 per hour?

Make contact with the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC). They're very nice people and easy to deal with.

There's 16 year olds making more money per hour than you.

c.p.w.g.w · 05-06-2020 9:54pm

Lundstram wrote: »

Make contact with the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC). They're very nice people and easy to deal with.

There's 16 year olds making more money per hour than you.

My MIL has had to do that, but as they can't visit sites, employer is just feeding them lies, and they aren't believing the MIL

jj.vita · 05-06-2020 10:10pm

I’m not sure of other staff pay. It’s large company, never closed during pandemic, I don’t think their turnover got anyhow affected by the Pandemic. Will contact WRC as advised

collsoft · 06-06-2020 12:58am

Hi Seve,

Revenue are going to publish the protocol next week, they have set a deadline of the 12th, but i am expecting details on Monday or Tuesday.

What I do know is that Employers will be required to contact Revenue on a case by case basis and advise them of the employee in question. (Probabally by a myenquiries question)

Revenue will then carry out a manual assesment of the case and assign the employee an ARNWP, subsidy etc and add them to the CSV file manually.

There will be a lookback to the actual date of when the employee came back to work and the subsidy will be back dated to that date. This will be some time after the CSV is updated.

So keep a looknout for the announcement next week, and whatever you do, dont process a J9 until the employee is listed in the CSV,

Json

Seve OB wrote: »

have an employee due back the week after next from maternity leave.
we are just going to put her on the covid payment along with everyone else.
nothing on the csv import file for her.
does anyone know the protocol here?

RandomViewer · 06-06-2020 9:20pm

jj.vita wrote: »

Hi, my employer pays me the wage subsidy of €350, and doesn’t top up my wages. I work 6 days per week approx 50 hours (more than before The Pandemic started, where I used to work 5 and 6 days every second week). I know that employer’s are not required to make the top up to my wages, but is it legal that I’m only being paid €7 per hour?

The top up requirment being voluntary only applies if you arent working, the idea is the subsidy 70% to 85% of previous wage plus top up to make up the difference, if you are working 50 hours thats €500 minimum, should be overtime rate for 11 hours too

eh i dunno · 06-06-2020 9:23pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

The top up requirment being voluntary only applies if you arent working, the idea is the subsidy 70% to 85% of previous wage plus top up to make up the difference, if you are working 50 hours thats €500 minimum, should be overtime rate for 11 hours too

It also applies if you are working unfortunately.

RandomViewer · 06-06-2020 9:35pm

eh i dunno wrote: »

It also applies if you are working unfortunately.

Ive been doing 2 weeks on ,2 weeks off, get Covid subsidy for off weeks and subsidy plus top up for worked week,
You need to bring this up employer or complain to Revenue or WRC

blackwhite · 06-06-2020 11:28pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Ive been doing 2 weeks on ,2 weeks off, get Covid subsidy for off weeks and subsidy plus top up for worked week,
You need to bring this up employer or complain to Revenue or WRC

The rules of the scheme don’t require the employer to top-up.

IMO any employer who can afford to do so should be topping up - especially if asking people to continue working - but the rules don’t require them to do so.

RandomViewer · 07-06-2020 8:27pm

blackwhite wrote: »

The rules of the scheme don’t require the employer to top-up.

IMO any employer who can afford to do so should be topping up - especially if asking people to continue working - but the rules don’t require them to do so.

If he has you working he has to tell revenue, if he's drawing the subsidy but getting double that in Labour out of the employee he needs his collar felt

Seve OB · 07-06-2020 8:43pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

If he has you working he has to tell revenue, t

I don’t think so

blackwhite · 07-06-2020 11:40pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

If he has you working he has to tell revenue, if he's drawing the subsidy but getting double that in Labour out of the employee he needs his collar felt

All you’re required to notify revenue is whether someone is on payroll or not, and how much is being paid and topped up (if any)

fungie · 08-06-2020 10:03am

Our company has told us only a small percentage of staff qualify for the wage subsidy scheme. I find this hard to believe, I took a 30% pay cut and am in the top quartile in terms of salary in the company. According to the collsoft calculator, I should be eligible to receive the subsidy, therefore, 3/4 (minimum) of staff should be on it.

I raised this with the company and asked how they determine who can and can't get the subsidy.

blackwhite · 08-06-2020 10:50am

fungie wrote: »

Our company has told us only a small percentage of staff qualify for the wage subsidy scheme. I find this hard to believe, I took a 30% pay cut and am in the top quartile in terms of salary in the company. According to the collsoft calculator, I should be eligible to receive the subsidy, therefore, 3/4 (minimum) of staff should be on it.

I raised this with the company and asked how they determine who can and can't get the subsidy.

Under the changes since the start of May - any employee is eligible to be included in the scheme.

However, if the employee's ARNWP in Jan/Feb was greater than €960, then to be eligible for the scheme their pay must be cut so that their total WSS Subsidy plus Top-up is €960 or less.

snowgal · 08-06-2020 11:40am

Hi all, for those working on twss the past few months can I ask have you found it particularly difficult and alot lot more time consuming? I used to work payroll for many years and know whats generally involved though obviously dont have first hand experience on this pandemic issue. My colleague has said it is taking up 3 days of his time to get it done and I cant understand that. There are 6 employees still on normal pay, not affected at all ,and 5 employees on twss. Everyone else has been laid off. Does this really take that much time? thanks

Pistachio19 · 08-06-2020 12:02pm

snowgal wrote: »

Hi all, for those working on twss the past few months can I ask have you found it particularly difficult and alot lot more time consuming? I used to work payroll for many years and know whats generally involved though obviously dont have first hand experience on this pandemic issue. My colleague has said it is taking up 3 days of his time to get it done and I cant understand that. There are 6 employees still on normal pay, not affected at all ,and 5 employees on twss. Everyone else has been laid off. Does this really take that much time? thanks

Sounds a bit much. Does he have a payroll package or is he working it out himself? We have a payroll package and it gives the TWSS and top up figures we should be paying each employee, so for us there is very little work involved. Even if we were working it out ourselves I cannot imagine it would take 3 days to figure it out.

Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

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