Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Spoilers from post 2076

Tony EH · 23-12-2019 5:57pm

Drumpot wrote: »

@Tony, thanks for the comprehensive response, very well explained.

I agree with some and disagree with other elements. Always feels like perhaps I’m not making the point clear cause you always talk what people aren entitled to do which has nothing to do with my points and you get quite defensive when people address the overly negative neysayers. It’s like some feel this is their personal soap box forum to dump all their anger and the rest of us should put up or shut up about just because “you have a right, to say how angry you are”. Put simply, you can complain all you want but people can call you out when you keep repeating the exact same things for years before and after SWs movies.

This is a forum for people's opinions. Some you'll agree with, some you won't and many you'll see repeated as the discussion grows. That's just unavoidable.

But, look at things the other way too. There are plenty of other posters who have been called all manner of istaphobe's because they don't like a Star Wars film or films which is much, much worse than reading somebody else's mildly disagreeable opinion that you're not required to be in alignment with anyway.

In the end, it's all just people externalising something that they feel on the inside about a given matter. Nobody is really trying to change anyone's mind on this and in any case, you appear to acknowledge that this set of films has been a messy affair, so in that respect you are in agreement with an awful lot of the "naysayers" in that respect.

Also, if I am defensive of the "naysayers", it's because I think it's completely redundant to moan about another person's opinion (especially on something as insignificant as a Star Wars film). I think it's better to counter the opinion with another one and find out where the common ground lies.

Drumpot wrote: »

I see you trying to explain away toxic fandom but don’t agree with your sentiments at all on the topic. I use it as just a quick way of identifying some fans reactions before and after the movies. Some people can be toxic on certain subjects and one sign of that is spending years repeating The same complaints about things that won’t change.

I don't believe in "toxic fandom", so I don't have to "explain" it "away".

"Toxic fandom" is only a phrase some people use to negate opinions they don't like, or to box off opinions they don't like. As a tangible thing, however, it doesn't have any real form.

You can use it as "...a quick way of identifying some fans reactions before and after the movies", but all you are doing is engaging in the activity I mentioned in the paragraph above, which in the end doesn't really do anything.

Drumpot wrote: »

But I don’t see you conceding much on this topic so don’t see much benefit to going round in circles.

What, exactly, am I supposed to be conceding here though? Am I, or anyone else, supposed to acquiesce just appease or massage another's feelings on a given matter? That doesn't make sense.

Drumpot wrote: »

How about this, you can keep complaints an every few years I can ask if you can somehow learn to just change the record once in awhile. You don’t have to do anything but every so often it just gets tiresome reading the same stuff over and over again. I don’t have to read it of course but I prefer to not ignore people, just address issues as they arise.

What you're essentially saying in the above paragraph is shut up and that just isn't going to work. If you don't like or want to read certain opinions on a public forum, then it's up to you to regulate your reading.

Asking anyone not to post their points is on a hiding to nothing.

The Helpful Engineer · 23-12-2019 6:05pm

I saw this today with my kids. As a huge fan of the original films, I thought this was souless and thoughtless rubbish. My kids kept asking me during it was there much left (they were bored). I cant understand why the reviewers I read are so full of praise for it.

NIMAN · 23-12-2019 6:12pm

The Helpful Engineer wrote: »

I saw this today with my kids. As a huge fan of the original films, I thought this was souless and thoughtless rubbish. My kids kept asking me during it was there much left (they were bored). I cant understand why the reviewers I read are so full of praise for it.

Do you not think there's corruption in film reviews?

I would bet the mortgage on money changing hands for good reviews.
Have always believed it after watching many average 'highly reviewed' films.

The Helpful Engineer · 23-12-2019 6:32pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Do you not think there's corruption in film reviews?

I would bet the mortgage on money changing hands for good reviews.
Have always believed it after watching many average 'highly reviewed' films.

I hadn't really thought about it, but i didn't think there was corruption tbh, maybe there is though. I think there definitely is with Apple products, and apple customers are being played. Perhaps film reviewers give soft reviews for influence & access i.e. Graham Norton, Empire magazine etc

Sad Professor · 23-12-2019 6:53pm

I think this is out long enough now. No need for spoiler tags from this post onward.

WARNING: If you haven't seen the film yet and don't want to be spoiled, stop reading!

NIMAN · 23-12-2019 6:56pm

The Helpful Engineer wrote: »

I hadn't really thought about it, but i didn't think there was corruption tbh, maybe there is though. I think there definitely is with Apple products, and apple customers are being played. Perhaps film reviewers give soft reviews for influence & access i.e. Graham Norton, Empire magazine etc

When was the last time Jonathan Ross, Graham Norton, or anyone who meets stars actually say they didn't like their lastest album/film etc?

The answer is never, cos they are all in the business and wouldn't have the balls.

Same on radio. Never heard a DJ say to an artist that they weren't mad on their album. I listened to Dave Fanning and 2 guests last weekend destroy Ed Sheeran and this brand of music, saying it was rubbish, soulless etc. Basically couldn't see why anyone would listen to it. But at the same time, they fawn over Dermot Kennedy and the like. And you can guarantee if they were offered Ed Sheeran appearing on their show for an interview, they suddenly would become big fans/

And as for reviews, I would say the entire industry is easily paid off. I have zero doubt.

Sad Professor · 23-12-2019 7:36pm

What was the point of Luke in this trilogy?

TFA: The Resistance search for Luke, the last Jedi, so he can restore hope to their struggling cause and train more Jedi. Fearing this, the First Order are also searching for him. At great sacrifice the Resistance find him first, but will he help them and train Rey as a Jedi?

TLJ: Rey tries to convince Luke to train her and help the Resistance, which is being hunted down and destroyed by the First Order. At their darkest hour he comes to their aid and sacrifices himself so they can escape. Word of his actions spread across the galaxy. Though the Resistance have suffered heavy loses, the spark of hope has been lit and the Jedi (Rey) have returned.

TROS: The Resistance seems to have forgotten about Luke and his sacrifice and don't expect anyone to help them. Rey is trained as a Jedi by Leia, who it turns out was a Jedi master all along so they never actually needed Luke. None of the people/places they visit know anything about Luke or his actions on Crait. Lando appears out of nowhere and rallies the galaxy to the Resistance's cause in 5 minutes off-screen.

If I didn't know better I'd say JJ didn't watch TLJ and forgot what happened in TFA.

Tony EH · 23-12-2019 7:59pm

What was the point of the trilogy?

buried · 23-12-2019 8:10pm

Big Hype and a longing for the feels of the past. The whole thing was desinged for cool looking trailers to generate excitement and get cash money. Everything else like story, plot, characters didn't matter. Get people in the door and give them what they want, stormtroopers, tie fighters, x wings, Millennium falcons. the feeling among the exec's must have been "that'll do them". This was all evident from the first teaser trailer for TFA

Venom · 23-12-2019 8:47pm

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

Tony EH wrote: »

What was the point of the trilogy?

TheDoc · 23-12-2019 8:52pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

If I didn't know better I'd say JJ didn't watch TLJ and forgot what happened in TFA.

He was very clearly, himself and Disney, addressing the issues they felt were present in the second one, and from fan feedback.

I thought Abrams comments about the second film ahead of the third premiere were brave, misguided at best (his pops at the previous film) and lo and behold he made just as much of a mess that has pissed fans off.

When Rey threw the saber at the fire and he grabbed it and said his line about treating a Jedi's weapon with more respect, I literally said **** off in my head.

Hamill has been pretty candid about his issues with the trilogy, and I'm sure he will come out and leather this as much as the other two

TheDoc · 23-12-2019 8:56pm

buried wrote: »

Big Hype and a longing for the feels of the past. The whole thing was desinged for cool looking trailers to generate excitement and get cash money. Everything else like story, plot, characters didn't matter. Get people in the door and give them what they want, stormtroopers, tie fighters, x wings, Millennium falcons. the feeling among the exec's must have been "that'll do them". This was all evident from the first teaser trailer for TFA

It's just more signs of pure malaise in terms of creativity in Hollywood.

The entire Skywalker thread and references were basically utterly pointless and pure fan service paying to nostalgia.

There are a ton of amazing Star Wars stories that could be told, that they launched with this trilogy just goes to show how safe studios are taking it with big budget films.

The Skywalker era had a perfect finish with Return of the Jedi( story wise, that film whatever your opinions are) and this trilogy I think has just killed it entirely.

They are onto something with the Mandalorian. There is tons of quality stories that can be told in the same universe.

Goodshape · 23-12-2019 8:58pm

Disappointing box office take less than a billion

Now that the dust has settled somewhat, I watched The Last Jedi for a second time last night.

Really enjoyed it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

buried · 23-12-2019 8:59pm

It's all such a total waste because these new films could have had all that iconic imagery, all what was needed was a decent, coherent and interesting story to follow episode 6 with it but TFA was too concerned with cramming as much of what the other films were about it was on the backfoot, literally, from the start. A better story would have been one of the offspring from Han Solo/Leia going rogue and on a quest for the darkness. TFA just plunged us into that setup after the fact had happened but thats because the execs needed the imagery of the empire right from the get go to get "the feels" of the original trilogy. And imagery from the old trilogy could have been used, you could have had a plot where the Hutt gangsters hoovered up a few old battalions of the Empire and made them Into mercanaries/bounty hunter army to go hunt down Luke Skywalker, which would have been very cool, but no, nothing was given a chance except - "REMAKE EPISODE 4" It was a rush for $$$ and now the whole thing is just a joke. People thought got what they wanted from TFA but they could have gotten all of that from watching episode 4 anyways. TFA was a wasted episode and it didn't know where to go afterwards. "Just stick some big walkers on a white looking planet for the next one and we are golden, people will come flocking"

Relikk · 23-12-2019 9:23pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Now that the dust has settled somewhat, I watched The Last Jedi for a second time last night.

Really enjoyed it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

When I watched it for the second time I disliked it even more than the first time. I've never watched it again, nor will I. The Force Awakens is on TV tomorrow. I'll sit down and enjoy that, and then I'll go see The Rise of Skywalker again on Friday.

brianregan09 · 23-12-2019 10:30pm

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Think after TFA , Rey was gonna be Luke's daughter it practically wrote itself , he hid her on a desert planet to hide her from Snoke just like Obi Wan did for him , TLJ messed that up and killed off Luke more or less

py2006 · 23-12-2019 10:44pm

Relikk wrote: »

No. I think he was a bartender on Kijimi.

That's right

Burty330 · 23-12-2019 10:51pm

Kathleen Kennedy didn't want Luke to have a prominent role in the films. She wanted him gone in the Last Jedi and death was the solution.

It wasn't in the franchises best interest to belittle Luke before punching his ticket. It was a personal choice by KK , motivated from the disdain she has for the character.
Imagine having the power to single handily control the creative choices of a 4 billion dollar property beloved by men all over the world , and then still complain complain about the patriarchy and inequality.

Star Wars has befallen to harbingers of ideologues and agendas. Such a shame. Stick a fork in Star Wars , its done.

faceman · 23-12-2019 11:42pm

expectationlost wrote: »

again what about all the conscripted people on the baddies ships, do they really all deserve to die?

I bet that was something a mate said to you in the pub and now you’re saying it here thinking you’re funny.

We are nerds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQdDRrcAOjA

Calhoun · 23-12-2019 11:48pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Now that the dust has settled somewhat, I watched The Last Jedi for a second time last night.

Really enjoyed it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Its not the worst film, its just out of place in the trilogy. A combination of the killing off of the original extras (Ackbar et al), the endless chase which sucked out the sense of urgency, the side quest which was pointless in the end, and killing off off and warping of Skywalker really make it a bit meh.

Rian tried to do way to much and in an early interview i remember Lucas visited him on set and told him as much.

The gap between the first and third compared to the second is really big now and they probably would have been better with one director for the lot of it.

Sonics2k · 23-12-2019 11:55pm

That was hands down the most decidedly average movie I have ever seen.

Nothing in it was outright bad, but nothing was good. It didn't make me annoyed like The Phantom Menace did, it didn't make me happy like Empire did. I just walked out feeling vaguely confused.

Where did all those Sith come from? Why didn't all the planet destroying ships destroy other planets? Why only the one planet? Was that actually Ian McDiarmaid or just really bad CGI? Why did all those ships start blowing up when they were across the galaxy away from the war?

It was just filled with "last minute saves", meaning at no point in the movie did either my two kids or myself feel like there was any real risk in the movie.

Everything about this movie felt like a by the numbers sequence with JJ desperately trying to plug the holes and plot complaints from the previous movie. The only thing I can safely say is that literally everything that happened was insanely predictable and Adam Driver did a decent job with what he was given.

Oh, last note. The Lightsaber duels were just dull. Maybe we were spoiled by McGregor and Haddinson being great swordsmen, but watching Driver and Ridley do their battles felt so slow and dull and hardly like two Jedi at the top of their games.

OU812 · 24-12-2019 12:09am

Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie.

Dades · 24-12-2019 1:14am

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Burty330 wrote: »

Kathleen Kennedy didn't want Luke to have a prominent role in the films. She wanted him gone in the Last Jedi and death was the solution.

It wasn't in the franchises best interest to belittle Luke before punching his ticket. It was a personal choice by KK , motivated from the disdain she has for the character.

I don't know if that's true or not, but the real issue with the trilogy has been a lack of antagonist, not whether or not Luke anchored the whole thing. It made sense in a way to pass the baton on to the new generation.

Snoke was just a hologram, then got unceremoniously halved. He was the Emperor lite. Hux was more Spaceballs than Star Wars. Then Palps pops up with some back of a beermat exposition as to where he's been. At least Kylo Ren is a quality character.

But given Rey, and to a lessor extent, Finn and Poe have been constant in terms of protagonists, it's been the inconsistent bad guys that are the elephant in the room.

Calhoun · 24-12-2019 1:43am

Dades wrote: »

I don't know if that's true or not, but the real issue with the trilogy has been a lack of antagonist, not whether or not Luke anchored the whole thing. It made sense in a way to pass the baton on to the new generation.

Snoke was just a hologram, then got unceremoniously halved. He was the Emperor lite. Hux was more Spaceballs than Star Wars. Then Palps pops up with some back of a beermat exposition as to where he's been. At least Kylo Ren is a quality character.

But given Rey, and to a lessor extent, Finn and Poe have been constant in terms of protagonists, it's been the inconsistent bad guys that are the elephant in the room.

The other issue is it seemed like they didn't know what to do with Poe and Finn, they are like two halves of solo.

One of them was redundant I don't care which should have died or not existed.

The Golden Miller · 24-12-2019 2:20am

So the 40 year saga of the Skywalkers, climaxes without any Skywalker, instead being a battle between two Palpatine's. What was the point of it all again?

Varik · 24-12-2019 3:39am

Enjoyed that, had some scenes that were drawn out too long but otherwise it was good.

Could probably skip TLJ for all the difference it made, no one showed up last time and snoke's dead but he was only a meat puppet anyway.

silverharp · 24-12-2019 9:52am

legend!

https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/1209256570497847296

tony1kenobi · 24-12-2019 9:57am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So the 40 year saga of the Skywalkers, climaxes without any Skywalker, instead being a battle between two Palpatine's. What was the point of it all again?

I’m not an expert, but I think the jist of it is, about 80 years ago everything was more or less ok.

Then several generations of one family found themselves in positions of power.

Some of those family members were nazis and others were terrorists.

They fought a lot with each other.

Then in the end the most powerful Sith opted to not use her power for evil. Thus bringing balance to the force as prophesied by Jules from Pulp Fiction and Fozzy Bear.

I think that’s pretty much it. The point, I think, is that nepotism rarely works out in the best interests of anyone.

Again, I am only a casual viewer and of course stand to be corrected.