Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

Midlife crisis man

The

new force powers didn't bother me as much as others in this forum. In the (now non-canon) EU books, there were many interesting manifestations of force powers.

Rey's lightning and healing annoyed me. Only sith can use force lightning and only jedi can heal

Jimbob1977

I thought the film was reasonably good.

There is a little too much harking back to the past. When I saw Lando, I was half expecting IG-88, Bib Fortuna and Chief Chirpa to make walk-on cameo appearances.


7 out of 10.

Drumpot

Midlife crisis man wrote: »

The

new force powers didn't bother me as much as others in this forum. In the (now non-canon) EU books, there were many interesting manifestations of force powers.

Rey's lightning and healing annoyed me. Only sith can use force lightning and only jedi can heal

I’m not sure I share your last paragraphs concerns. Rey

was a Jedi who had an internal struggle about who she might become. She didn’t know it at that stage but she was a Palpatine. I remember when I first saw her fight style in TFA I thought it was very similar to Palpatines. Not sure if that was intentional or not.
But I think the moment where she uses force lightening was a Moment where she allowed her emotions/anger get the better of her and used Sith powers (not intentionally) to “win” that battle. I think it was mace windu who equally skated very close to the Jedi/sith line when using some powers

Drumpot

I was chatting With a friend after it and came to some conclusions.

I think the industry is saturated with fantasy movies and SW in particular is struggling to keep up (Kind I’d like how pre 00s there wasn’t really much of a challange for bond and Bourne movies changed that . When the OT was released they were several years apart and there was nothing near the same level that was able to compete with the spectacle. I also think the online community is a disaster and movies are now being changed dramatically to try to appease fans that just makes movies nobody wants. TFA too similar, TLJ too differnt, ROS too similar.... Just make the trilogy you want and deal with the consequences.

In the OT , The characters were better ,more likable and it felt like they grew into their roles. Everything they did felt earned and epic because none of it felt rushed. Since Disney it’s all felt very much hammer out the movies as quickly as possible but I think marvel/DC movies are negatively affecting the perceptions of the Movies and perhaps in some way influencing the style over substance approach. I don’t actually think Disney knows what to do with SW , certainly not the main movie franchise. Rogue One has been the best SW movie since the originals IMO.

I also think toxic fandom doesn’t help. For example, If solo was not a Star Wars movie, it probably would of been more successful /popular as it was actually a very good space heist movie. It’s the “answering questions nobody wanted answered” and nostalgic love of the originals that cost that movie big time. Fans won’t admit it but they don’t judge SWs movies as standalone movies on their own they just benchmark it agaisnt originals that came out when they were younger and have a more rose tinted memory in this regards. Quite often the same criticisms you can throw at originals but are ignored are used to bash the newer movies.

It’s not completely unreasonable but it does make newer movies hard to bring out. The newer aliens movies are case in point. We prob won’t get any quality alien movies and will most likely get a poxy reboot because fans “didn’t want answers” to questions that weren’t asked. The comparisons are startling, people complaining before movies are even made and then taking great satisfaction at complaining that the movies were just as disappointing as they predicted.

These SWs trilogy movies were not perfect but they were fun if you allowed it. Wouid I rather no SWs movies at all or to get to see Han, Leai, Luke , the falcon and Palpatine on the screen? I’d rather get what we got then nothing. Of course they could of been better but my kids enjoyed them so I know that part of my issue is that I am no longer watching SWs movies through the eyes of a young drumpot.

Homelander

Of course Solo would've been better received if it was a standalone space heist movie - but it wasn't, it was part of an enormous global franchise and took a very risky approach of telling a story there wasn't any particular demand for.

I mean, some of the worst franchise movies are, in total isolation, OK movies and most certainly would've been OK movies if they'd been released as standard movies unlinked to any expectations. Starship Troopers 2, Terminator Genisys, Alien: Covenant spring to mind - all OK movies from an entertainment POV, but range from utterly dreadful to weak movies in the context of their established franchises.

Weak movies, lack of advance planning and poor decision making harm franchises. The new Star Wars trilogy suffers massively from the resounding lack of an overall cohesive plan - Rise of Skywalker attempts to disown half of what The Last Jedi established and provide 'new' answers to drive an entirely fresh narrative, literally a mild reset in the final act of a trilogy. That should absolutely not be happening.

People can hate on Last Jedi but if Disney committed to giving Johnson freedom to establish his own creative vision, they should have 100% respected his creative choices and rolled with them for Ep9 rather than allow JJ to reverse half of it and end up with a half-baked, completely unoriginal, finale that's basically Return of the Jedi all over again.

I was OK with The Force Awakens being a re-thread to draw in a new generation. I was largely delighted that The Last Jedi took a few brave new steps and felt original and fresh (despite hating some choices). I knew JJ was going to play it safe but I'm disappointment with just how ridiculously safe and stale it was and how much it shat on TLJ.

What he went for in the Rise of Skywalker could've worked far better if there was a plan in place from the beginning and it could've been tied into more in Last Jedi to properly set it up, rather than hammering it in for the last movie and clearly displaying your disapproval of what your predecessor established for you to work from.

Too many cooks and all that. They should have just let JJ have the whole trilogy ala Peter Jackson with LOTR, or let Johnson do Ep9. I've no idea what he would've done but after Last Jedi I'm 100% certain it would've at least been more original and memorable as well as entirely consistent with that film.

I can't think of one truly memorable and iconic scene from Rise of Skywalker and I only saw it yesterday. Meanwhile, the Last Jedi's Throne Room and hyper-drive scenes are up there with the greats from the franchise. Even Force Awakens has significantly better and more impressionable imagery than ROS.

Drumpot

Homelander wrote: »

Of course Solo would've been better received if it was a standalone space heist movie - but it wasn't, it was part of an enormous global franchise and took a very risky approach of telling a story there wasn't any particular demand for.

I mean, some of the worst franchise movies are, in total isolation, OK movies and most certainly would've been OK movies if they'd been released as standard movies unlinked to any expectations. Starship Troopers 2, Terminator Genisys, Alien: Covenant spring to mind - all OK movies from an entertainment POV, but range from utterly dreadful to weak movies in the context of their established franchises.

Weak movies, lack of advance planning and poor decision making harm franchises. The new Star Wars trilogy suffers massively from the resounding lack of an overall cohesive plan - Rise of Skywalker attempts to disown half of what The Last Jedi established and provide 'new' answers to drive an entirely fresh narrative, literally a mild reset in the final act of a trilogy. That should absolutely not be happening.

People can hate on Last Jedi but if Disney committed to giving Johnson freedom to establish his own creative vision, they should have 100% respected his creative choices and rolled with them for Ep9 rather than allow JJ to reverse half of it and end up with a half-baked, completely unoriginal, finale that's basically Return of the Jedi all over again.

I was OK with The Force Awakens being a re-thread to draw in a new generation. I was largely delighted that The Last Jedi took a few brave new steps and felt original and fresh (despite hating some choices). I knew JJ was going to play it safe but I'm disappointment with just how ridiculously safe and stale it was and how much it shat on TLJ.

What he went for in the Rise of Skywalker could've worked far better if there was a plan in place from the beginning and it could've been tied into more in Last Jedi to properly set it up, rather than hammering it in for the last movie and clearly displaying your disapproval of what your predecessor established for you to work from.

Too many cooks and all that. They should have just let JJ have the whole trilogy ala Peter Jackson with LOTR, or let Johnson do Ep9. I've no idea what he would've done but after Last Jedi I'm 100% certain it would've at least been more original and memorable as well as entirely consistent with that film.

I can't think of one truly memorable and iconic scene from Rise of Skywalker and I only saw it yesterday. Meanwhile, the Last Jedi's Throne Room and hyper-drive scenes are up there with the greats from the franchise. Even Force Awakens has significantly better and more impressionable imagery than ROS.

This reads as somebody who generally agrees with me but Is disagreeing.

The reactions and enjoyment of a movie quite often come down to expectations, very much so in a franchise. If you have negative expectations in advance of even seeing a movie then that movie by default is going to struggle to match what you want, particularly if you don’t want the movie made in the first place!. This makes appeasing a specific fan difficult for those emotionally invested and anticipating disappointment.

The mistake the studio made was lacking the courage to go with Johnson’s story and back tracking to appease the loudest dissenting fans. Kind of similar to DC dragging in Whedon to make a piece of sh*t justice league, just stick with Snyder’s movie and reboot if it doesn’t work out. Snyder’s night not of been much better but it could hardly of been worse. Instead we got an abomination that actually just pleased those who seem to hate Snyder.

I’m not sure there are many examples where people complaining on the internet about a movie helped the franchise in a positive way. Nearest thing I can think of is the big push to get Deadpool made but that’s not really the same thing as happened with SWs.

And with regards to solo you can make a choice to ignore the SWs element and just enjoy the movie. It seems some people just can’t and won’t do that. I’m quite happy that I can enjoy what we get instead of being miserable about it and spending more telling others why they should be miserable about it aswell!

Homelander

Yes, I was disagreeing on the initial point, but not the later one as we most definitely agree on that point. The whole thing reeks of the last season of Game of Thrones, the 'captain' asleep at the wheel and divesting complete control to creators with no oversight or regulatory measures in place whatsoever. I feel the same about the prequel trilogy, but it was largely unavoidable in that context as Lucas had complete, unassailable control.

Realistically I don't think Rise of Skywalker is remotely as damaging to the franchise/trilogy as S8 of GOT is to that franchise, nor is it actually bad exactly just for clarity, but there are definitely similarities in how both - being some of the biggest franchises on the planet - played out in their final chapters with a sense of disjointed chaos and lack of respect for what came before.

Slydice

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

This feels about right (people who actually went to see the film):
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker


and, again from people who actually went to see the film, a B+ on CinemaScore (same as Joker):
https://twitter.com/CinemaScore/status/1208263701595246593


Probably start seeing some people 'Adapt' their opinions as their blogs / youtubers pivot and tell them new opinions they should have

Homelander

I don't obviously discount Cinemascore or anything like that, but most blockbusters get good ratings regardless of quality. For example Terminator Dark Fate also got a B+, and that was a pretty bad movie, certainly worse than Rise of Skywalker in the context of their respective franchises, and as an individual film as well.

Gemini Man also has a B+, and I thought that was utterly terrible - Charlies Angel's also has a B+, while Midway has an A rating, and again, that's most definitely nothing more than an average movie albeit massively entertaining.

Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, Last Jedi and Force Awakens all have an A rating incidentally. I don't dispute that at all and can see why, but the point being I don't think it's much of a metric on quality, more on entertainment value.

Slydice

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

Nah, most of them have A-

Rogue One gets the A

ricero

The whole triology felt directionless and very rushed after a very good force awakens.

Also enjoyed rogue one and the mandlorian. Rest since Disney took over have been very bland and forgettable.

Drumpot

Homelander wrote: »

I don't obviously discount Cinemascore or anything like that, but most blockbusters get good ratings regardless of quality. For example Terminator Dark Fate also got a B+, and that was a pretty bad movie, certainly worse than Rise of Skywalker in the context of their respective franchises, and as an individual film as well.

Gemini Man also has a B+, and I thought that was utterly terrible - Charlies Angel's also has a B+, while Midway has an A rating, and again, that's most definitely nothing more than an average movie albeit massively entertaining.

Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, Last Jedi and Force Awakens all have an A rating incidentally. I don't dispute that at all and can see why, but the point being I don't think it's much of a metric on quality, more on entertainment value.

Here’s an interesting question, how can you rate a movie that’s not particularly great (story, characters etc) but is extremely entertaining to its target audience?

I was listening to an interview with Ed Norton talking about fight club and how critics absolutely hated the movie. Both Pitt and him agreed it would prob be the best movie they would ever make and that they know the target audience would love it. So who are the target audience for Star Wars? I don’t think it’s the hardcore element who dont appear to of ever been on board with the Sky Walker extension. they want fresh movies from different eras (I agree) and were vehemently agaisnt prequels (I was aswell to be fair but rogue one was just so good).

If These SWs movies disappoint older generations of fans but please the modern , overly saturated with fantasy movies, children , is it not only fair to temper expectations? Bit like children’s movies like shrek or toy story that are easily miles better productions then the crap like angry birds or emoji movies but children none the less enjoy. Perhaps there is no specific target audience for SWs and in an effort to try and please everybody they just made a bit of a pigs ear of this trilogy.

Another question I have is how popular SWs movies was with over 40s in the 80s? Did it connect with an older audience? Any fan from the 80s is in their 40s and surely accepts how they enjoy and appraise movies today is very different from their childish eyes. But then again, seeing a SW movie in the 80s where it was one of a kind and watching it today in between marvel and DC fantasy’s (and tv shoes etc) , it doesn’t really stick out as much as it would when it was so unique. Is it this fact “that it doesn’t really stick out anymore” the biggest disappointment for SWs fans?

I think the current format is redundant and they need to explore more of the mythology. Get away from Sky Walker and come up with something exciting , unique and that can be built. A sith story would be awesome, especially with the new age R rated comicbook movies but unfortunately I’m not sure Disney do that, even though I imagine they can use Fox or one of their branches to try it out.

Slydice

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

Forgot to look up who could be heard when

Rey hears all the Jedi voices

.

I couldn't make out

half of them. Looks like Clone Wars had a big influence

: Reference Article

Qui-Gon Jinn (Liam Neeson) ... The Phantom Menace.
Obi-Wan Kenobi (Ewan McGregor and Alec Guinness) ... Both actors
Mace Windu (Samuel L. Jackson)
Yoda (Frank Oz)
Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen)
Ahsoka Tano (Ashley Eckstein) ... Clone Wars ... Rebels
Kanan Jarrus (Freddie Prinze Jr.) ... Rebels
Luminara Unduli (Olivia d’Abo) ... briefly seen in the films ... greater role in Clone Wars.
Adi Gallia (Angelique Perrin) ... briefly seen in the films ... Clone Wars
Aayla Secura (Jennifer Hale) ... Episode II ... Clone Wars

Noise Annoys

Saw it on Thursday. Plot was all over the place, dialogue was ropey (what's new), and visually it looked good.

Overall, not great and soon to be forgotten.

Relikk

Slydice wrote: »

Forgot to look up who could be heard when

Rey hears all the Jedi voices

.

I couldn't make out

half of them. Looks like Clone Wars had a big influence

: Reference Article

Yeah, I was waiting for that part but when the time came I could only make out the main movie characters. Like Anakin, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Yoda. Couldn't make out the rest.

McDermotX

Audio here

Spoilers obviously (hid the embed as it shows the dialogue)

https://youtu.be/mCTvS4QB7jU

One of the lines attributed to Kanan might have been Anakin IMO

johnny_ultimate

While I’m not going to have much enthusiasm to rewatch this, I am curious to see if the deleted scenes cover some of the stranger rough edges of the film. There’s the whole business of Finn

spending the first half of the film wanting to tell Rey something important

... and then that never actually happens? It feels like a character arc that was meant to have another scene and now just sits there weirdly unresolved, albeit with one rather sudden hint about what it might have been

(force awareness)

.

Ditto the

Lando / Jannah scene, which surely had more resonance in an earlier version of the script (have heard a few reports about Lando having a daughter in some draft at least).

Most of the cinema burst into confused laughter there, so unless they’re just really abruptly doubling down on Lando being a lady’s man it’s a really odd beat :pac:

Hego Damask

Drumpot wrote: »

I was chatting With a friend after it and came to some conclusions.

I think the industry is saturated with fantasy movies and SW in particular is struggling to keep up (Kind I’d like how pre 00s there wasn’t really much of a challange for bond and Bourne movies changed that . When the OT was released they were several years apart and there was nothing near the same level that was able to compete with the spectacle. I also think the online community is a disaster and movies are now being changed dramatically to try to appease fans that just makes movies nobody wants. TFA too similar, TLJ too differnt, ROS too similar.... Just make the trilogy you want and deal with the consequences.

In the OT , The characters were better ,more likable and it felt like they grew into their roles. Everything they did felt earned and epic because none of it felt rushed. Since Disney it’s all felt very much hammer out the movies as quickly as possible but I think marvel/DC movies are negatively affecting the perceptions of the Movies and perhaps in some way influencing the style over substance approach. I don’t actually think Disney knows what to do with SW , certainly not the main movie franchise. Rogue One has been the best SW movie since the originals IMO.

I also think toxic fandom doesn’t help. For example, If solo was not a Star Wars movie, it probably would of been more successful /popular as it was actually a very good space heist movie. It’s the “answering questions nobody wanted answered” and nostalgic love of the originals that cost that movie big time. Fans won’t admit it but they don’t judge SWs movies as standalone movies on their own they just benchmark it agaisnt originals that came out when they were younger and have a more rose tinted memory in this regards. Quite often the same criticisms you can throw at originals but are ignored are used to bash the newer movies.

It’s not completely unreasonable but it does make newer movies hard to bring out. The newer aliens movies are case in point. We prob won’t get any quality alien movies and will most likely get a poxy reboot because fans “didn’t want answers” to questions that weren’t asked. The comparisons are startling, people complaining before movies are even made and then taking great satisfaction at complaining that the movies were just as disappointing as they predicted.

These SWs trilogy movies were not perfect but they were fun if you allowed it. Wouid I rather no SWs movies at all or to get to see Han, Leai, Luke , the falcon and Palpatine on the screen? I’d rather get what we got then nothing. Of course they could of been better but my kids enjoyed them so I know that part of my issue is that I am no longer watching SWs movies through the eyes of a young drumpot.

Very good post.

I went this afternoon and was worried, I was expecting crap with all the bad reviews but was pleasantly surprised.

Not as good as TFA but a LOT LOT LOT better than TLJ.

Wasn't perfect, script was lazy things were just too easy and convenient, but it could have been a hell of a lot worse!

My biggest annoyance is how Rey is such a Mary Sue - by the end of TFA she was beating Kylo Ren who went through all that training ... Luke, Anakin even Palpatine (if you read Darth Plageius) went through years and years of tough training.

Rey just seems to have it naturally!

Thats Disney though, at the end of the day they are making films for this new generation of kids

Slydice

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

There’s the whole business of Finn

spending the first half of the film wanting to tell Rey something important

... and then that never actually happens? It feels like a character arc that was meant to have another scene and now just sits there weirdly unresolved, albeit with one rather sudden hint about what it might have been

(force awareness)

.

I'm still pretty sure it's

love

. Watched the first two films right before and the thread of

their bond is there. Felt like it was more with Finn though.

TFA:

Solo pointed out that women always figure out the truth.. Finn was bragging about himself.
Finn came clean about running away and tried to convince Rey to run off with him 'you looked at me like no one ever had'
Finn lies to the resistance just to get a chance to save Rey 'I came back for you' Chewie tells Rey it was Finns idea.. Embracing hug.
Finn braves the fight with Ren cos Ren hurt Rey
Rey Jedis up and fights Ren just after Ren hurt Finn.. though.. whether she was just skilling-up or acting cos of what happened to Finn could be debated.
Rey hovering over Finn at the end and the kiss before she left.. although just 'my friend'

LJ:

Finn wakes up, first words: 'Where's Rey?'
The only person Finn asks about when he gets his bearing: How's Rey gonna find us.
His run away plan primary goal is to get Reys beacon away from the doomed Resistance ships
Meanwhile Rey has been self discovering and feeling alone and Snoke has been putting her and Ren in touch.
At the end though, Rey does the rescue with the Rocks and again.. Embracing hug.

TROS:

First meeting, they hug.
Quicksand, 1st 'I never told you'. I mean.. it's not like there's been anything showing us much of a reason except that he's developed feelings for her.
Think they were the last two above the sand.. so kinda alone
Rey askes down below and he's all 'I'll tell you later' when they are not alone.. force sensitive doesn't sound like an intimate secret to keep.. love though..
Rey and Finn have the conversation where Rey reveals the dream of her and Ren on the Throne.
Rey after the Chewie rescue going into kill-Palpatine mode but confides it to Finn.
When Rey goes off to the deathsrar 'I'm not going to lose her'
Rey force pushing Finn back to safety and jumping to another ledge to move Ren away
Rey dies, we jump to Finns reaction. Not something I associate with non-family/love interests
Closing scenes hug with Rey, Finn and Poe.. though Poe seemed interested elsewhere.

Granted Rey

was alone at the end.

Also they had side quests in the films:

- Finn changing from a default of Running Away
- Rey's love thread with Kylo

Drumpot

Slydice wrote: »

I'm still pretty sure it's

love

. Watched the first two films right before and the thread of

their bond is there. Felt like it was more with Finn though.

TFA:

Solo pointed out that women always figure out the truth.. Finn was bragging about himself.
Finn came clean about running away and tried to convince Rey to run off with him 'you looked at me like no one ever had'
Finn lies to the resistance just to get a chance to save Rey 'I came back for you' Chewie tells Rey it was Finns idea.. Embracing hug.
Finn braves the fight with Ren cos Ren hurt Rey
Rey Jedis up and fights Ren just after Ren hurt Finn.. though.. whether she was just skilling-up or acting cos of what happened to Finn could be debated.
Rey hovering over Finn at the end and the kiss before she left.. although just 'my friend'

LJ:

Finn wakes up, first words: 'Where's Rey?'
The only person Finn asks about when he gets his bearing: How's Rey gonna find us.
His run away plan primary goal is to get Reys beacon away from the doomed Resistance ships
Meanwhile Rey has been self discovering and feeling alone and Snoke has been putting her and Ren in touch.
At the end though, Rey does the rescue with the Rocks and again.. Embracing hug.

TROS:

First meeting, they hug.
Quicksand, 1st 'I never told you'. I mean.. it's not like there's been anything showing us much of a reason except that he's developed feelings for her.
Think they were the last two above the sand.. so kinda alone
Rey askes down below and he's all 'I'll tell you later' when they are not alone.. force sensitive doesn't sound like an intimate secret to keep.. love though..
Rey and Finn have the conversation where Rey reveals the dream of her and Ren on the Throne.
Rey after the Chewie rescue going into kill-Palpatine mode but confides it to Finn.
When Rey goes off to the deathsrar 'I'm not going to lose her'
Rey force pushing Finn back to safety and jumping to another ledge to move Ren away
Rey dies, we jump to Finns reaction. Not something I associate with non-family/love interests
Closing scenes hug with Rey, Finn and Poe.. though Poe seemed interested elsewhere.

Granted Rey

was alone at the end.

Also they had side quests in the films:

- Finn changing from a default of Running Away
- Rey's love thread with Kylo

I agree but actually thought there was a far deeper love of sorts between Rey and Kylo.

Slydice

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree but actually thought there was a far deeper love of sorts between Rey and Kylo.

The Snoke involvement made it wierd. "You two! Be in love! Aha I made you in love! What, no! You can't just betray and cut me in half!"

Saying that though, I agree that they had a different type of love story. Both types of love story seem familar from previous TV / Films but nothing is immediately coming to mind as an example. Feels like an example for each one is just at the tip of my brain

LoughNeagh2017

There's nothing worse than Star Wars. I bet I can even guess what posters on this thread are wearing, the women are wearing over sized glasses and have tattoos and the men have beards and are wearing lumperjack shirts.

On incel forums it is called "Soy Wars" in reference to men consuming estrogen.

Sad Professor

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

There's nothing worse than Star Wars. I bet I can even guess what posters on this thread are wearing, the women are wearing over sized glasses and have tattoos and the men have beards and are wearing lumperjack shirts.

You are confusing geeks with hipsters.

SteM

I'm a lumperjack anb I'm okay, I sleeq all night anb I work all bay.

alchemist33

Disappointing box office take less than a billion

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

There's nothing worse than Star Wars. I bet I can even guess what posters on this thread are wearing, the women are wearing over sized glasses and have tattoos and the men have beards and are wearing lumperjack shirts.

On incel forums it is called "Soy Wars" in reference to men consuming estrogen.

I hope for your sake you don't bet with real money.

Baggly

LoughNeagh2017 wrote:

There's nothing worse than Star Wars. I bet I can even guess what posters on this thread are wearing, the women are wearing over sized glasses and have tattoos and the men have beards and are wearing lumperjack shirts.

Ah god needed that laugh.

Go absorb American Internet hate culture on reddit would ya.

S.M.B.

I thought there was a scene towards the end of the movie which made it sound like Finn

knew that Rey was a Palpatine before she did.

and I assumed that was the secret. I was starting to drift off mentally at the end so maybe I imagined this.

Slydice

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

If I had to see this pun laden title... everyone must go through it

‘Skywalker’ Posts Strong First Two Days Despite Lukewarm Reviews
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-20/-skywalker-box-office-prospects-dim-after-lukewarm-reviews

Headed into the weekend “Skywalker,” which officially debuted on Friday, was projected to take in $160 million to $190 million in its first three days, according to Boxoffice Pro, but may now be on a track to pull in more.

ziedth

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

I was going to do a bit write up but it's been put better above at this stage. It was much better then I thought it was going to be, not as good as TFA and it amused me how much the back peddled on TLJ.

I would have like three things to have been different reallly that I don't think has8 been said;

The Leia "Ben!!!" Force projection scene was too rushed and from what I gather having only seen it onceRen got the better of Rey in the fight and just before he kills her Leia uses the last of her life to "Turn" Ben... Rey strikes him and I'm assuming senses that he has turned or something (I'm not quite sure) uses the healing thing. I think they should have flushed that out a little bit better. Really show that Ren was about to swing or had the upper hand or whatever and give a better idea of what happened in the aftermath.

Speaking of which the Force healing was garbage..... felt out of place and just too useful a plot point.....

Finally, the ending "Fight" with Palpatine.... would it not have worked like 100 times better as a quick light saber fight where she is easily stronger then him using the streght of previous Jedi etc. Etc. seeing as nobody in ROTS came close to him in a lightsabre fight it would have tied off a bit more nicely. Like Mace Windu was able to use his light saber harm Papatine during his lighting attack.

Tony EH

Drumpot wrote: »

I also think toxic fandom doesn’t help. For example, If solo was not a Star Wars movie, it probably would of been more successful /popular as it was actually a very good space heist movie. It’s the “answering questions nobody wanted answered” and nostalgic love of the originals that cost that movie big time.

So called "toxic fandom" (which doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned, it's just a way of trying to dismiss opinion) had nothing to do with the failure of 'Solo', which was built in before the script was even written.

'Solo' failed not because of audiences, or any audience member. It failed because it was a terrible idea to begin with. It was possibly one of the worst decisions of Kennedy's tenure at the head of Star Wars, and that's saying something when one takes into account the litany of bad decisions she's made. The idea that you could just repackage an iconic character like Han Solo, stick him in a mediocre yarn and turn him into a prop collector and expect long time fans to just roll over and fly a flag for it was naive at best. But, it is, frankly, indicative of the disconnect at Disney that saturates their whole handling of Star Wars.

'Solo' was box office poison, because all Disney could think of was making bank on a famous character from much better films than they could ever come up with and they misjudged to an astonishing degree just how much it would be rejected. I still find it, to this day, remarkable that there was nobody involved that raised their hand and said that the project was a terrible idea, when even fandom was saying it was a dodgy prospect to say the least. Or, maybe there was and they were just silenced as is the way in the business nowadays. It's a shut up and get on board, or move out attitude where descent against bad ideas isn't tolerated and mediocre product shoved out the door is all that results.

Disney, and nobody else, is to blame for 'Solo'. Not any fan. "Toxic" or otherwise.

Drumpot wrote: »

Fans won’t admit it but they don’t judge SWs movies as standalone movies on their own they just benchmark it agaisnt originals that came out when they were younger and have a more rose tinted memory in this regards. Quite often the same criticisms you can throw at originals but are ignored are used to bash the newer movies.

Why would they judge any Star Wars film as a stand alone movie when the makers go out of their way to try and connect them all? That's just silly. Your trying to blame the audience for bad and mediocre film making, when the fault lies solely with the studio responsible for them in the first place. And, in addition, most fans will freely admit to making a judgement on a Star Wars film in how it balances out with the series as a whole. That's a perfectly natural and valid response to any chapter in any long running series. No Star Wars film is a "stand alone" film, because the people who make them go to great lengths not to make them that way. Even 'The Mandalorian' is saturated with familiarity in an effort to connect it with the series it belongs to.

Blaming the audience member for how they view a film is, to me, a strange way of looking at things, when they have no power over the making of the film in the first place. All they have is their response to it and if that's in the negative, that's just the way it is.