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Can I get started in IT without a degree

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    #32
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    There are different it Jobs.

    Some will test you on your technical knowledge and skill set. Some will require qualifications and check their credibility.


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    #33
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    As someone above said look at springboard courses or Learn and Work, where you do college and work. These are offered in different disciplines (Networking etc...) and often offer certification (CISCO / VMWare etc...)


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    #34
    SteelyDanJalapeno
    Registered Users Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭SteelyDanJalapeno


    Yeah was gonna suggest VMware certification would go a long way to helping find a role in IT


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    springboard course would be a great option for you


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    #36
    nibtrix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭nibtrix


    Bigmac1euro wrote: »
    ... maybe start in customer service and then into tech support...
    caff wrote: »
    ... lads would start in the post room there then move into other areas of the business including IT...
    DVD-Lots wrote: »
    ... finally got lucky and got in at a very low level in a very young company, basically postroom & IT Support all in one. Promoted 3 times in 5 years by showing a good aptitude and can do attitude....



    I came in to say this, I've seen several people go through this route. They had interest and skills in IT, but no qualification and no business/corporate experience. They did a year or two in mail/print/records management, while doing IT certifications in their own time and, most importantly, building up contacts in the IT departments in the company. So much of hiring is about who you know and who will recommend you. Having knowledge of the company's processes and culture, and a recommendation from inside the company that you are a hard worker / quick learner can be worth far more than a degree.


    Just so happens that one of those jobs is currently available in Dublin :pac: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110688739&postcount=438


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    #37
    Eire Go Brach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,369 ✭✭✭Eire Go Brach


    gmisk wrote: »
    I would agree with this, I dont think you would get too far without a degree/a lot of experience.

    I would disagree. I’d go as far as to say. IT is one of the areas that would be easier to get into without a degree. Excluding programming that is. Although it’s possibly harder to get into the management end of IT without a degree.

    I managed to change careers into IT at 38. By just doing certs.

    OP. If you are unemployed make the most of the unemployment system to do IT courses. There are loads out there that you can do.


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    #38
    u140acro3xs7dm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »
    Yeah was gonna suggest VMware certification would go a long way to helping find a role in IT

    They are super expensive, circa €5-6k each and probably not for a beginner, but after a couple of years experience, it would be ideal for bringing you to the next level.


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    #39
    Supercell
    Registered Users Posts: 15,326 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    I'd recommend doing a CCNA, you can download Packet Tracer and find materials online for free. Only cost is the exam. Shouldn't take you more than 6-8 months if you put some effort into it and will open doors.
    https://www.loughlinstown.ie

    Have a weather station?, why not join the Ireland Weather Network - http://irelandweather.eu/



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    #40
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭Cordell


    This is the thing, so many young people have IT degrees these days that they are losing their value
    No they aren't. With existing work experience that's another story, but with no previous experience you will be competing with those that at least have a degree (and also went through internships in the industry).


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    #41
    Nekro Man
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭Nekro Man


    Sorry to hijack the thread but I'm in a similar spot.

    I have a bachelor's and a master's in media production but I'm getting nowhere in it so I'm looking at moving into IT. Currently working in customer service / sales.

    Would I be wasting my time with a comptia in Griffith or would that be enough coupled with my previous qualifications to get a foot in the door somewhere?


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    #42
    Eire Go Brach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,369 ✭✭✭Eire Go Brach


    Nekro Man wrote: »
    Sorry to hijack the thread but I'm in a similar spot.

    I have a bachelor's and a master's in media production but I'm getting nowhere in it so I'm looking at moving into IT. Currently working in customer service / sales.

    Would I be wasting my time with a comptia in Griffith or would that be enough coupled with my previous qualifications to get a foot in the door somewhere?
    Do a conversation course with springboard. Perfect for you.


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    #43
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    OSI wrote: »
    I got offered an entry level DevOps position and after a bit of hopping around have made Director level by the age of 30. It's very possible, but you need to put in a lot of effort and show a lot of interest and skill in the area.

    Titles tend to be a mid misleading, when I officially retired I had the title 'Director', but then about 3,000 people at the company had that title too.

    When you say director, does that mean you are in charge of a big department, so 100+ staff, have responsibility for the company's IT's or what?
    OSI wrote: »
    For example before my initial job I was involved in a number of open source projects and did a lot of personal projects in the area that I was able to use to demonstrate my knowledge to get my foot in the door.

    I think we're at the stage where is is almost mandatory now. Developers are expected to have a Github account or similar and be able to demonstrate their work.

    I always liken it to a builder taking on a new apprentice and suggests they should have a drive round and inspect some of the house he has build so far! But these are the times we live in.

    OSI wrote: »
    Once you get in then your education because almost irrelevant.

    On the contrary, if you are working for any large organisation where promotions need to be approved higher out or at another geographic location it is a must. It's a box ticking exercise, but you will not get on the list if you have not been able to tick the box.


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    #44
    u140acro3xs7dm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    Cordell wrote: »
    No they aren't. With existing work experience that's another story, but with no previous experience you will be competing with those that at least have a degree (and also went through internships in the industry).

    I would have to disagree with you, I am not saying they are useless, but a lot of people with IT degrees, are useless at IT. If i had an option of someone without a degree who spent 6 months on a help desk, or someone with no experience and a degree - experience wins every time.

    I've had lads with degrees come in to me and they haven't a clue. We used to be kind to them because of the degree, thinking they will eventually get going. Now we give them a few months, after that you know if someone has it or not - if they don't, they get moved on. For programmers a degree is probably more important than it is for networking, IT support or sys admin type work.

    I'm sure the same goes for other industries too, but it is extremely prevalent in IT.


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    #45
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    degree plus experience.
    imo.
    my son has an excellent degree.
    the lack of experience is stopping him from employment.
    why? graduates need to be given a chance.
    he didnt have work placement in his course and he's convinced this is stopping employers from giving him a chance.

    a thing i notice in ads and which annoys me is the job posted towards grads but looking for 1 or 2 years experience.
    how is this even possible?


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    #46
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    a thing i notice in ads and which annoys me is the job posted towards grads but looking for 1 or 2 years experience.
    how is this even possible?

    Open source projects and community websites. My son is in the third year of a CS degree at Uni Bern (Switzerland) and he has already built up a substantial portfolio from working on a gaming community website since he was seven. They normally have about 3.5k concurrent users and they have a crew of about 35 people broken down into 6 teams that do everyone from admin, devops to development. And they go through all the usual stuff you'd expect on a big project.

    And he is not that unusually as far as I can see based on what the others on the degree course are doing.


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    #47
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    He might not be unusual in that environment. But the vast majority of kids do not do that.

    But I agree that if you want to get into software development, you need to projects done, that you can demonstrate.


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    #48
    cee_jay
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭cee_jay


    Have a look at the FIT Associate Apprenticeship scheme - practical hands on experience, while studying for certifications. Good start to an ICT career I think. No degree required.

    https://fit.ie/
    https://fit.ie/fitnew/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/FINAL-Apprenticeship-Brochure-April-2019.pdf


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    #49
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    yes he'd have apps etc that he has created.
    he did a final year project involving machine learning that resulted in excellent grade/feedback.

    the unwillingness or whatever of employers to give those without experience a chance is frustrating.

    i would like to see a properly run internship programme for college grads in this country but i guess that's a pipe dream.


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    #50
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    yes he'd have apps etc that he has created.
    he did a final year project involving machine learning that resulted in excellent grade/feedback.

    the unwillingness or whatever of employers to give those without experience a chance is frustrating.

    i would like to see a properly run internship programme for college grads in this country but i guess that's a pipe dream.


    Any tech shop worth their salt has a graduate programme for graduates with no experience. A quick search on Irishjobs.ie reveals 712 hits for "graduate software developer".


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    #51
    scamalert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    if one has no experience but developed apps software code, they need to include github on their work experience for employer to see code, LinkedIN account for anyone in IT looking for job is another must, as most recruiters crawl there every day, and at least gives a fair chance to get opportunities.


    As flaw whith all the jobs listings many times until position is submitted trough each department expectations become as if looking someone with 5-7 years experience more like, totally unrealistic, yet most require someone just to be good at doing x job and be willing to upskill on other fields in time.
    this applies to almost every IT job where companies look to fill in position but fail miserably at describing actual role just to cram as much as possible.


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    #52
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    the unwillingness or whatever of employers to give those without experience a chance is frustrating
    As said, have him do the "graduate software developer" job.

    Pimp himself out on LinkedIn (don't forget all the bullsh|t words that HR love), and connect to his college friends on LinkedIn to see if there's any jobs going in their companies. Getting referred to HR by a mate can sometimes get him in for an interview quicker than if he went via a recruiter.


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    #53
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,671 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    I've ever only known one person who has got into IT without a degree. He was brilliant and had to leave the course early for personal reasons and was very well versed in the specialised technology/stack needed at the time. Apart from that sole exception, I'd highly recommend some form of Higher Diploma/Course to have some proof of an educational baseline.


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    #54
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    the unwillingness or whatever of employers to give those without experience a chance is frustrating.

    Why would you expect anyone to take a gamble on someone unproven, when there are qualified candidates available? At this stage having a degree is the same as being able to read and write, everyone has one.

    If the manager bets on the unqualified guy and it does not work out it’s on the manager but if the graduate does not worked it’s on the graduate. Don’t expect anyone to bet their career, their family’s financial well-being etc. on you.


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    #55
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Why would you expect anyone to take a gamble on someone unproven, when there are qualified candidates available?.

    But there aren't, that's the issue.

    The IDA reckon there is a continual 5000 deficit of software developers each year in Ireland, hence why companies have to source so many from abroad. I recently visited a large (1000+ employees) software development site and my impression was that Irish people were in the minority.

    So having a talent pipeline is important to companies, especially where employees are in demand and can jump around, increasing salary/benefits each time. This pipeline involves taking fresh graduates, straight from college, with no experience, to train them up to counteract this churn.

    Standard practice in a lot of industries.


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    #56
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    If I didn't have a computing degree, but I liked programming and could back it up with some example projects, I would apply to startups.

    A) No HR drone auto-deleting applications without degrees.

    B) Entrepreneurs are more likely to give you a chance if you have a bit of drive.

    C) Much easier to reach out to the boss of a startup than a corporate person.


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