Can I get started in IT without a degree

MrMiata

I'm 22, dropped out of studying business after 2 years..
I'm looking at going back (nothing really interests me and it'd be short + different college so slightly different subjects), but the more I think about it the more I hate the thought of going back to college full time.

I'm looking at getting into tech support, my fathers great with computers and I've picked up a good bit from him about them.. even in the business degree I was aiming for Information Systems.
I think it's something I'd be interested in, but college isn't.

I don't know how to really go about it, or if it's even really feasible but can I get a job in tech support, systems admin etc without a degree?
Beyond the Comptia A+ what do I need to get a job in this area?

I'd much rather do a part time course and work rather than fork out €3+ a year for a full time programme.

Tom Dunne

Generally speaking, no.


You may get an (very) entry-level role through personal contacts if a friend/family member does you a favour to get you started.



But I can't see you having much success applying for jobs in IT without a degree.

gmisk

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Generally speaking, no.


You may get an (very) entry-level role through personal contacts if a friend/family member does you a favour to get you started.



But I can't see you having much success applying for jobs in IT without a degree.

I would agree with this, I dont think you would get too far without a degree/a lot of experience.

beauf

It not impossible but hr and agencies will filter in qualifications, degrees, diploma, certifications.

youcancallmeal

I've fairly similar story to yours, dropped out of an electrical engineering course I had no interest in around your age. This was 15 years ago, I did nothing for a while then realised I should try turn my interest in computers into something I could do for a living. I somehow managed to get a job with HP who were in Clonskeagh at the time doing entry level tech support over the phone for a company in England. I believe they still do this kind of managed services support but are now based in Lucan. I did start a part time diploma in computer programming in the evening shortly after I got the job and eventually moved to another tech support job where I continued studying and got my degree. It wasn't easy and it took 4/5 years of working during the day and going to college at night but I'm in a great job now doing what I love.

LincolnHawk

Go back and do the degree, prove you can finish something. At the moment you are a business studies drop out to employers, it's not exactly a position of strength.
..not trying to be mean, just giving the employers perspective as they screen applicants.

OMM 0000

I think you can get a tech support job. But something simple like Eircom internet technical support.

And go from there.

miezekatze

If it's general IT support (end user support/customer service) then yes, you can do that without a degree. I got started like that too, but you can only get so far without a degree. I did a part time degree after a while to be able to get ahead, would probably have been better to do it from the start. Maybe look into a degree in Business Information Systems, if you always select the more technical subjects in the elective subjects it can be fairly technical, and the subjects you've already done will probably count towards it.

Jim2007

MrMiata wrote: »

I'm 22, dropped out of studying business after 2 years..

There was a time, back in the good old days, when it was possible and indeed there are probably a lot of people in mid 40s upwards that did this. But those days are gone. Today all the young people have a degree of some type or other, so the real question you are asking: can I get by with being less qualified that most of my peer group and the answer is: very unlikely. You may manager to get your foot in the door, but you will almost certainly will not progress very far. Do you really want to be the 50+ junior being managed by a 20 something later in life???

You are very young, so you have about 45 years of a working life ahead of you, so it is far to early to start limiting your future, especially when you can do something about it. Limiting yourself now will impact your ability to do what you want later in life:
- Difficulties in getting a decent mortgage leading to home ownership
- Difficulties in financing for kids future: college fees, training etc
- Pension savings, so retirement might not be comfortable

You really need to concentrate now in getting some decent qualifications such as a degree if you want to secure your future.

Eircom_Sucks

Jim2007 wrote: »

There was a time, back in the good old days, when it was possible and indeed there are probably a lot of people in mid 40s upwards that did this. But those days are gone. Today all the young people have a degree of some type or other, so the real question you are asking: can I get by with being less qualified that most of my peer group and the answer is: very unlikely. You may manager to get your foot in the door, but you will almost certainly will not progress very far. Do you really want to be the 50+ junior being managed by a 20 something later in life???

You are very young, so you have about 45 years of a working life ahead of you, so it is far to early to start limiting your future, especially when you can do something about it. Limiting yourself now will impact your ability to do what you want later in life:
- Difficulties in getting a decent mortgage leading to home ownership
- Difficulties in financing for kids future: college fees, training etc
- Pension savings, so retirement might not be comfortable

You really need to concentrate now in getting some decent qualifications such as a degree if you want to secure your future.

Lie on your cv , mate did that , always tech savvy , now on over €100k in less than 4 years

gmisk

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Lie on your cv , mate did that , always tech savvy , now on over €100k in less than 4 years

Er I wouldnt recommend this....if your found out you would be fired...then have a massive gap in your CV and no reference for another job obviously.

Eircom_Sucks

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Lie on your cv , mate did that , always tech savvy , now on over €100k in less than 4 years

That’s not great advice. He can hardly say he has a degree and then gets asked for proof and has no way to provide it.

Or even worse, get the job and not have the skills to do it.

Thargor

gmisk wrote: »

Er I wouldnt recommend this....if your found out you would be fired...then have a massive gap in your CV and no reference for another job obviously.

Not if he hops around a good few jobs like is common in IT.

beauf

Some people prefer to get working get money coming in and do college at the same time. Get the degree etc in the evenings.

You can do that, but its a harder longer route. But it suits some people better.

gmisk

Thargor wrote: »

Not if he hops around a good few jobs like is common in IT.

Possibly....but a decent organisation will generally look for proof of degrees etc (my last 2 jobs have)

Bigmac1euro

Yes you can, easily find a job in tech support or maybe start in customer service and then into tech support, work your way into a level 2 local IT support position which isn't too hard and the money is decent. Study at night and get a degree that way or do certifications relevant to the field you fancy. Within 3-4 years you'll be earning great money in an industry with a bright future, If your based in Dublin all the better because we have plenty of IT related jobs. A mate of mine is driving from Belfast every day to work in Dublin because the money is good. I dropped out of college at 21 and have been now working in IT for 7 years or 9 years including part time while i was in school/college. The best thing I ever done was drop out because I wouldn't be where i am now.

Not saying this works for everyone and also having people skills is quite important in IT, more important than I realized over the years. There is plenty of people doing the same job I'm doing now and they done a degree in computer science for 4 years on a diet of noodles and beans and I didnt have to do that while still enjoying my life while young. I found work during the recession as well so If I can do it anyone can.

IMHO your better off getting stuck in and getting the experience behind you. Home in on an area of IT and get the certs while working.

Jim2007

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Lie on your cv , mate did that , always tech savvy , now on over €100k in less than 4 years

And if you believe him, then I can sell you a black helicopter or bridge going real cheap.

With that kind of advice you best place is the ignore list.

Phileas Frog

gmisk wrote: »

Possibly....but a decent organisation will generally look for proof of degrees etc (my last 2 jobs have)

I've never been asked for proof of anything in the last 20 years working in the IT world and I've worked for several decent organisations in that time

caff

Used to work in Irish life on Abbey Street and lads would start in the post room there then move into other areas of the business including IT. This was within the last 5 - 10 years. One guy I worked with started in the post room at 18 and was in IT the next year at 19. He's a senior manager now in a US tech firm in Dublin. It can be done but you need to be good at making personal connections and moving up through a company.

thomas anderson.

I did a few Comptia exams and MSCA's. Worked my way through a few companies on service desk, lvl etc.

Now do Field IT Support for a a big multinational. Earn above the average industrial wage, not a great wage but enough to pay the mortgage and support the kid.

Bigmac1euro

caff wrote: »

Used to work in Irish life on Abbey Street and lads would start in the post room there then move into other areas of the business including IT. This was within the last 5 - 10 years. One guy I worked with started in the post room at 18 and was in IT the next year at 19. He's a senior manager now in a US tech firm in Dublin. It can be done but you need to be good at making personal connections and moving up through a company.

Think I'm related to this guy :pac:

DVD-Lots

Failed my leaving, never went to college, but was very tech savvy as I had been breaking and fixing all sorts of electronics and computers since I was 12 and was very confident I could learn. Did a crappy FAS course that was useless to me, finally got lucky and got in at a very low level in a very young company, basically postroom & IT Support all in one. Promoted 3 times in 5 years by showing a good aptitude and can do attitude. Got to a certain level of knowledge in 3 different areas of IT (Telecoms, Backups and Printer support to a tier 3 level) and am still here after 19 years. Never took any certified courses while here, completely self taught.

So yes, if you get lucky and have the right attitude, you can get a job in IT without a degree. One of the girls that started in IT after me had a degree, stuck it for 5 years and is now on the phones in customer services in the same company. Different strokes and all that. Not sure how today's job market is though!!

Apiarist

Yes, you can. But you have to get the relevant knowledge one way or another. Doing a college course is a predictable way to get skills and the vocabulary needed for a job, but you can do it yourself if you are savvy enough to know what you want.

u140acro3xs7dm

You definitely can, but it depends on how much you want it, and how natural it comes to you. Some of the best people I've worked with don't have a degree, neither do I. I can also say, without hesitation, that some of the most useless people I have worked with had IT degrees. They may have been good at remembering what they were taught in the book, but once it came to thinking for themselves, and troubleshooting, forget about it.

As people have already suggested, get into a 1st level tech support role, any role. Answering phones and dealing with people is an acquired skill, and one a lot of people initially struggle with. Once you have a few months experience, you can move on.

mlem123

If you want to go down this route, look into springboard - I'm working fulltime and about to finish my part time HDip in Data Analytics. It's been a tough couple of years but worth it I think.

I needed to have a BA as it's a postgrad but they do also offer undergrads.

When I started there were no fees but now I think you pay 10% (but not sure if that's just for people who work)

OMM 0000

Jim2007 wrote: »

And if you believe him, then I can sell you a black helicopter or bridge going real cheap.

With that kind of advice you best place is the ignore list.

In fairness, I also know a person who lied on their CV and now earn over 100k a year too.

They went from labourer to fund accountant and now work as an operations manager in a bank.

JJJJNR

You don't need a degree at all, get some Microsoft certs starting at the OS level. Watch YouTube videos for the 2008 server admin series and work your way up. Do some volunteer work in charities doing their IT support, setup a hacker group to fix PCs for free get the name out there. do a entreo IT course or whatever they are called and then use that to get into college if you want.

thenightman

FIT (fastrack to IT) were running earn as you learn programmes tied in with employers. Think there was two strands, software development and network technician. Companies like Accenture were involved. I almost went down that route before I got the public service job I wanted. Worth a look anyway.

https://fit.ie/

jim salter

https://programmingwithmosh.com/general/dont-need-college-degree/

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-ceo-tim-cook-you-dont-need-a-degree-to-code-mobile-apps/

ancapailldorcha

So, a course like this is effectively a waste of time then? Was considering this as a potential career change myself. I've completed two Python evening courses in London, the second of which I struggled with. I don't see how they would enable one to compete with the masses of Computer Science graduates pumped out of Universities on a yearly basis.

u140acro3xs7dm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So, a course like this is effectively a waste of time then? Was considering this as a potential career change myself. I've completed two Python evening courses in London, the second of which I struggled with. I don't see how they would enable one to compete with the masses of Computer Science graduates pumped out of Universities on a yearly basis.

This is the thing, so many young people have IT degrees these days that they are losing their value. 30 years ago a leaving cert got you a decent job, it's useless these days. Having a degree in IT doesn't mean you are any good in it. Hordes of people are leaving school and choosing IT degrees as it can be a good earner. They spend 4 years learning a little bit about everything, but unless they have the aptitude, and the interest it's useless to them. The cisco, vmware, Microsoft etc certs is where you learn practical skills that are useful to a career in IT.

beauf

There are different it Jobs.

Some will test you on your technical knowledge and skill set. Some will require qualifications and check their credibility.

DublinDilbert

As someone above said look at springboard courses or Learn and Work, where you do college and work. These are offered in different disciplines (Networking etc...) and often offer certification (CISCO / VMWare etc...)

SteelyDanJalapeno

Yeah was gonna suggest VMware certification would go a long way to helping find a role in IT

springboard course would be a great option for you

nibtrix

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

... maybe start in customer service and then into tech support...

caff wrote: »

... lads would start in the post room there then move into other areas of the business including IT...

DVD-Lots wrote: »

... finally got lucky and got in at a very low level in a very young company, basically postroom & IT Support all in one. Promoted 3 times in 5 years by showing a good aptitude and can do attitude....

I came in to say this, I've seen several people go through this route. They had interest and skills in IT, but no qualification and no business/corporate experience. They did a year or two in mail/print/records management, while doing IT certifications in their own time and, most importantly, building up contacts in the IT departments in the company. So much of hiring is about who you know and who will recommend you. Having knowledge of the company's processes and culture, and a recommendation from inside the company that you are a hard worker / quick learner can be worth far more than a degree.


Just so happens that one of those jobs is currently available in Dublin :pac: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110688739&postcount=438

Eire Go Brach

gmisk wrote: »

I would agree with this, I dont think you would get too far without a degree/a lot of experience.

I would disagree. I’d go as far as to say. IT is one of the areas that would be easier to get into without a degree. Excluding programming that is. Although it’s possibly harder to get into the management end of IT without a degree.

I managed to change careers into IT at 38. By just doing certs.

OP. If you are unemployed make the most of the unemployment system to do IT courses. There are loads out there that you can do.

u140acro3xs7dm

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Yeah was gonna suggest VMware certification would go a long way to helping find a role in IT

They are super expensive, circa €5-6k each and probably not for a beginner, but after a couple of years experience, it would be ideal for bringing you to the next level.

Supercell

I'd recommend doing a CCNA, you can download Packet Tracer and find materials online for free. Only cost is the exam. Shouldn't take you more than 6-8 months if you put some effort into it and will open doors.

Cordell

This is the thing, so many young people have IT degrees these days that they are losing their value

No they aren't. With existing work experience that's another story, but with no previous experience you will be competing with those that at least have a degree (and also went through internships in the industry).

Nekro Man

Sorry to hijack the thread but I'm in a similar spot.

I have a bachelor's and a master's in media production but I'm getting nowhere in it so I'm looking at moving into IT. Currently working in customer service / sales.

Would I be wasting my time with a comptia in Griffith or would that be enough coupled with my previous qualifications to get a foot in the door somewhere?

Eire Go Brach

Nekro Man wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread but I'm in a similar spot.

I have a bachelor's and a master's in media production but I'm getting nowhere in it so I'm looking at moving into IT. Currently working in customer service / sales.

Would I be wasting my time with a comptia in Griffith or would that be enough coupled with my previous qualifications to get a foot in the door somewhere?

Do a conversation course with springboard. Perfect for you.

Jim2007

OSI wrote: »

I got offered an entry level DevOps position and after a bit of hopping around have made Director level by the age of 30. It's very possible, but you need to put in a lot of effort and show a lot of interest and skill in the area.

Titles tend to be a mid misleading, when I officially retired I had the title 'Director', but then about 3,000 people at the company had that title too.

When you say director, does that mean you are in charge of a big department, so 100+ staff, have responsibility for the company's IT's or what?

OSI wrote: »

For example before my initial job I was involved in a number of open source projects and did a lot of personal projects in the area that I was able to use to demonstrate my knowledge to get my foot in the door.

I think we're at the stage where is is almost mandatory now. Developers are expected to have a Github account or similar and be able to demonstrate their work.

I always liken it to a builder taking on a new apprentice and suggests they should have a drive round and inspect some of the house he has build so far! But these are the times we live in.

OSI wrote: »

Once you get in then your education because almost irrelevant.

On the contrary, if you are working for any large organisation where promotions need to be approved higher out or at another geographic location it is a must. It's a box ticking exercise, but you will not get on the list if you have not been able to tick the box.

u140acro3xs7dm

Cordell wrote: »

No they aren't. With existing work experience that's another story, but with no previous experience you will be competing with those that at least have a degree (and also went through internships in the industry).

I would have to disagree with you, I am not saying they are useless, but a lot of people with IT degrees, are useless at IT. If i had an option of someone without a degree who spent 6 months on a help desk, or someone with no experience and a degree - experience wins every time.

I've had lads with degrees come in to me and they haven't a clue. We used to be kind to them because of the degree, thinking they will eventually get going. Now we give them a few months, after that you know if someone has it or not - if they don't, they get moved on. For programmers a degree is probably more important than it is for networking, IT support or sys admin type work.

I'm sure the same goes for other industries too, but it is extremely prevalent in IT.

Rubberchikken

degree plus experience.
imo.
my son has an excellent degree.
the lack of experience is stopping him from employment.
why? graduates need to be given a chance.
he didnt have work placement in his course and he's convinced this is stopping employers from giving him a chance.

a thing i notice in ads and which annoys me is the job posted towards grads but looking for 1 or 2 years experience.
how is this even possible?

Jim2007

Rubberchikken wrote: »

a thing i notice in ads and which annoys me is the job posted towards grads but looking for 1 or 2 years experience.
how is this even possible?

Open source projects and community websites. My son is in the third year of a CS degree at Uni Bern (Switzerland) and he has already built up a substantial portfolio from working on a gaming community website since he was seven. They normally have about 3.5k concurrent users and they have a crew of about 35 people broken down into 6 teams that do everyone from admin, devops to development. And they go through all the usual stuff you'd expect on a big project.

And he is not that unusually as far as I can see based on what the others on the degree course are doing.

beauf

He might not be unusual in that environment. But the vast majority of kids do not do that.

But I agree that if you want to get into software development, you need to projects done, that you can demonstrate.

cee_jay

Have a look at the FIT Associate Apprenticeship scheme - practical hands on experience, while studying for certifications. Good start to an ICT career I think. No degree required.

https://fit.ie/
https://fit.ie/fitnew/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/FINAL-Apprenticeship-Brochure-April-2019.pdf

Rubberchikken

yes he'd have apps etc that he has created.
he did a final year project involving machine learning that resulted in excellent grade/feedback.

the unwillingness or whatever of employers to give those without experience a chance is frustrating.

i would like to see a properly run internship programme for college grads in this country but i guess that's a pipe dream.

Tom Dunne

Rubberchikken wrote: »

yes he'd have apps etc that he has created.
he did a final year project involving machine learning that resulted in excellent grade/feedback.

the unwillingness or whatever of employers to give those without experience a chance is frustrating.

i would like to see a properly run internship programme for college grads in this country but i guess that's a pipe dream.

Any tech shop worth their salt has a graduate programme for graduates with no experience. A quick search on Irishjobs.ie reveals 712 hits for "graduate software developer".

scamalert

if one has no experience but developed apps software code, they need to include github on their work experience for employer to see code, LinkedIN account for anyone in IT looking for job is another must, as most recruiters crawl there every day, and at least gives a fair chance to get opportunities.


As flaw whith all the jobs listings many times until position is submitted trough each department expectations become as if looking someone with 5-7 years experience more like, totally unrealistic, yet most require someone just to be good at doing x job and be willing to upskill on other fields in time.
this applies to almost every IT job where companies look to fill in position but fail miserably at describing actual role just to cram as much as possible.