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Bord Bia

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  • 21-06-2019 7:25am
    #1
    king_of_inismac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Looking for a bit of advice re bord bia.

    Parents have a very small beef farm and are semi retired. They were members of bord bia but have noticed over the last number of years that the additional payments for being a member are minimal (when selling to factory).

    They decided that membership wasn’t worth it and recently told bord bia that they wanted to leave. They were told that the factory (Athleague) would not accept cattle from them if they weren’t bord bia approved.

    Have any of you heard of this? Has any other beef farmers here left bord bia? Any consequences?

    Thanks


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    #2
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    king_of_inismac wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Looking for a bit of advice re bord bia.

    Parents have a very small beef farm and are semi retired. They were members of bord bia but have noticed over the last number of years that the additional payments for being a member are minimal (when selling to factory).

    They decided that membership wasn’t worth it and recently told bord bia that they wanted to leave. They were told that the factory (Athleague) would not accept cattle from them if they weren’t bord bia approved.

    Have any of you heard of this? Has any other beef farmers here left bord bia? Any consequences?

    Thanks
    Factories can refuse to take non quality assured (Bord Bia) cattle and if they do take them will pay a greatly reduced rate per kg. Factories are private operatives and are not obliged to accept cattle outside their required specifications.


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    #3
    L1985
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭L1985


    Yes-they seem to be doing this a lot more the last two years. However if our parents sell them at 18months or so to the mart then it doesn’t make a difference to the price really. Alternatively ask around as there can be smaller butchers etc that will take them without bord Bia. It’s ridiculous as it was another scheme supposed to be voluntary that’s being made near compulsory. We are only in it 6 months because of the above and we don’t finish cattle but have the odd cow going in so I decided to join up.


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    #4
    jntsnk
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭jntsnk


    And some farmers do all this work for the audit, get passed,then grading knocks them off the bord bia bonus. The payment should be for any grade as the factory still sells that meat as bird bia approved even though the farmer didn’t get paid for it


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    #5
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    king_of_inismac wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Looking for a bit of advice re bord bia.

    Parents have a very small beef farm and are semi retired. They were members of bord bia but have noticed over the last number of years that the additional payments for being a member are minimal (when selling to factory).

    They decided that membership wasn’t worth it and recently told bord bia that they wanted to leave. They were told that the factory (Athleague) would not accept cattle from them if they weren’t bord bia approved.

    Have any of you heard of this? Has any other beef farmers here left bord bia? Any consequences?

    Thanks

    Let them not worry about it anyways. There appears to be a lot to it be isn't really. Are they dosing? If not, they have nothing really to do. Even if they are, just let them record it. And ensure they don't send animal to factory within withdrawal date.
    After that it's just a matter of answering the auditors questions every 18mths.

    Let them stay in it. Just not get panicked by it.


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    #6
    Anto_Meath
    Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    Its a box ticking exercise but if you don't play the game you will get it difficult to get cattle into any of the factories or if you do then at 20 -30 cent below base which I personally believe is wrong, you should get the bonus on all qualifying cattle and then base price on everything else. However cattle been docked for been over 30 months and more than 4 owners is ridiculous too but that has been argued to death on other threads.
    Its simple enough to do as you are doing everything anyway, it just making sure you record it and have the records to show the auditor when they visit every 18 months.
    Some of the auditors can be a bit much I remember 1 lad from over the west came up our way and he was questioning why the vet prescribed certain injections for a cow with pleurisy (I didn't know but I know the vet saved the cow, as he is one of the best vets in the country and even when you meet him in his office he will questing why you are buying stuff and advise as necessary) but generally they are fine, quick look around the farm then sit at the kitchen table for about an hour answering a few questing.
    The one thing the Bord Bia audit doesn't look at is the quality of the animals you are producing or the quality of animals you have sold.


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    #7
    Cavanjack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,560 ✭✭✭Cavanjack


    Think it’s as easy be in it as not in it. Records are supposed to be kept anyway as part of cross compliance. Find it handy enough to keep track of things. Just don’t wait until the night before the audit.


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    #8
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,075 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    L1985 wrote: »
    Yes-they seem to be doing this a lot more the last two years. However if our parents sell them at 18months or so to the mart then it doesn’t make a difference to the price really. Alternatively ask around as there can be smaller butchers etc that will take them without bord Bia. It’s ridiculous as it was another scheme supposed to be voluntary that’s being made near compulsory. We are only in it 6 months because of the above and we don’t finish cattle but have the odd cow going in so I decided to join up.

    Yeah, Even small abbatoirs are insisting more on it now, unfortunately as in anything, the buyers set the specs.
    QA says as much about the quality of the farmer as it does about the product


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    #9
    TL17
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭TL17


    Going to piggy back on this thread.
    Just wondering how clean do slatted sheds need to be. Find that all the dungs have really hardened in and its taking for ever to power wash. If most of dirt was gone would that be ok. Stuff on walls and creep area is impossible too.Any tips for washing these sheds?


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    #10
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    You may soak them for a few days and rent a high pressure washer
    Usually if you rent on a friday and return on monday morning first thing,its only charged as one day
    Locally here thats only 40 euros
    You will need to have those walls spotless


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    #11
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,788 ✭✭✭amacca


    How long would all these records have to go back for on the point of joining QA


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    #12
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    The inspections usually look back at a 12 month period from the day of the inspection and that's all I present


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    #13
    Injuryprone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭Injuryprone


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    You will need to have those walls spotless

    I've never heard of anyone failing for the want of power washing a shed. Have you?

    I know I passed no bother last October and the bedding in the calf sheds wasn't even cleaned out from the previous spring. Wasn't even mentioned. I haven't power washed a cubicle shed or slats in over 10 years (had to do it this year due to tb) and was never an issue either.


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    #14
    Injuryprone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭Injuryprone


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    The inspections usually look back at a 12 month period from the day of the inspection and that's all I present

    For the first inspection, I think 6 months is all they go back, for each subsequent inspection, they'll go back to the previous one.


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    #15
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    Injuryprone wrote: »
    I've never heard of anyone failing for the want of power washing a shed. Have you?

    I know I passed no bother last October and the bedding in the calf sheds wasn't even cleaned out from the previous spring. Wasn't even mentioned. I haven't power washed a cubicle shed or slats in over 10 years (had to do it this year due to tb) and was never an issue either.

    Oh it does happen
    It depends on the inspector
    Some are tougher than others
    I've done 4 of them now I think
    There is no consistency,I'll grant you that!


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    #16
    Keepgrowing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭Keepgrowing


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    Oh it does happen
    It depends on the inspector
    Some are tougher than others
    I've done 4 of them now I think
    There is no consistency,I'll grant you that!

    That’s it, no consistency coupled with some inspectors having “pet hates”


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    #17
    liosnagceann75
    Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭liosnagceann75


    I wouldn't bother power washing the sheds as the inspector might find no issue with them. Last inspection I had to power wash the back wall of the milking parlor and put a guard on the slurry spreader in order to become certified. My paperwork was all in order and I did nothing in advance of the inspector's visit. I treat it like someone putting their car through the nct to find out what needs to be done to it.

    I have always viewed the Bord Bia inspections as Jobs for the lads/girls.


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    #18
    hopeso
    Registered Users Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭hopeso


    What happens if you fail an inspection? Are you suspended from the scheme until it's put right, or are there other penalties?


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    #19
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,173 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    hopeso wrote: »
    What happens if you fail an inspection? Are you suspended from the scheme until it's put right, or are there other penalties?

    You'd have to be fairly bad to fail tbh


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    #20
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    I have one next week, do I use the previous book and do I fill in the forms back 18 months ago antibiotics, meal etc


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    #21
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,096 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    I have one next week, do I use the previous book and do I fill in the forms back 18 months ago antibiotics, meal etc

    Yes but do yourself a favor Kev and sign up for herdwatch etc .did it 2 years ago all records in it now I simply gave inspector log in details and left him to it makes paper work side very easy


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    #22
    cjpm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭cjpm


    FYI.

    AgriNet is cheaper than HerdWatch and is superior software. I have used both.

    Registering new born calves on AgriNet is a doddle and worth the price on its own.


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    #23
    orm0nd
    Registered Users Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭orm0nd


    cjpm wrote: »
    FYI.

    AgriNet is cheaper than HerdWatch and is superior software. I have used both.

    Registering new born calves on AgriNet is a doddle and worth the price on its own.

    All records kept on herdwatch here, cattle and sheep remedy purchase and usage, breeding, dosing, calf regs. spray purchase and usage, lost tags records and use to order. tractor servicing etc etc. Looked at agrinet but it wasn't for me.


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    #24
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,096 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    cjpm wrote: »
    FYI.

    AgriNet is cheaper than HerdWatch and is superior software. I have used both.

    Registering new born calves on AgriNet is a doddle and worth the price on its own.

    Do u work for herd app ....


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    #25
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    To be fair registering calves on agfood.ie and using its herd register is a doddle also and Free*

    *I dont work for the dept of Agriculture:D


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    #26
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    How much is it to join herdwatch and agrinet? I use the dept one and can't fault it except with late reg:o

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #27
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    I actually use Kingswood and have been with them maybe 20 years,so the price for set up back then would be a tad different now
    They haven't changed their annual maintenance charge since the beginning, thats €190 p.a
    Without it,the programme loses all but basic functionality

    Handiest functions are all the various reports,summaries, groupings etc and for example the bord bia audit button which automatically presents 12 months of all the reports that the inspector needs
    It's only as good obviously as the info you put in day to day or week to week
    I record everything on WhatsApp and transfer to the pc in the evening if theres something to add
    Put it in and it's in the reports neatly tabled

    I've a trial version of their phone app but tbh I don't like it,its web based and just looks to me like a mobile website
    No point paying for that albeit a one off payment

    I'd imagine agrinet and others are similar functions wise


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    #28
    L1985
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭L1985


    blue5000 wrote: »
    How much is it to join herdwatch and agrinet? I use the dept one and can't fault it except with late reg:o
    I know with herdwatch you can negotiate..... and can get a good deal! I think they went too pricey this year and lost a lot of customers!! It’s v v handy thou!
    Couldn’t compare it to the dept of Agri thou as that’s so basic and herdwatch is a lot handier esp on the go.


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    #29
    Aravo
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭Aravo


    Would it be a bit much that Bord Bia would have their own online system that one can fill in the details. It could be tailored to BB's own needs. And take account of the 100 questions that are asked by the Bord Bia person.


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    #30
    Cavanjack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,560 ✭✭✭Cavanjack


    In fairness the bord bia book is fairly straightforward and handy to fill out. Also your vet will print out Your years statement of drugs in a minute for you.


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    #31
    Aravo
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭Aravo


    Cavanjack wrote:
    In fairness the bord bia book is fairly straightforward and handy to fill out. Also your vet will print out Your years statement of drugs in a minute for you.

    All the more reason to have an electronic version available aswell and let each person choose what suits them best.

    I would love to get a print out from the vet as his written statements are illegible. Sure I was only recently complaining about him having no electronic device for recording at the herd test. It's pen and paper and it's me with the pen and paper writing for him.


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