Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

Kermit.de.frog · 02-07-2019 7:30am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Exactly whose livelihoods will be put at risk and how will they be put at risk?
You’re just trying to sensationalise his simple objection!

His simple objection is delaying a project that will go to Israel and cost us jobs.

No bull**** planning there.

Apple did it - they bailed out and said "fcuk this" (rightfully) - they went to Denmark. A warning.

Don't be stupid. These companies will pull the plug.

They don't have to be here and if dealing with delinquent planning they won't be here.

Seth Brundle · 02-07-2019 7:34am

You have not answered my question.
Whose livelihoods will be put at risk and how?

screamer · 02-07-2019 7:40am

I watched that program about him in RTE. whilst I think he’s cracked not to sell his farm for the right price, it is his farm. Looking at his house and yard, it seems he’s a bit of a hoarder, a simple living man set in his ways, he will never sell his land, I don’t think he’d survive elsewhere. He should not have to sell his farm nor his land if he doesn’t want to. In fact, I think to force him to do so would be against the common good, as where would CPO stop????? The whole cpo thing came across as very underhanded too.

Kermit.de.frog · 02-07-2019 7:42am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

You have not answered my question.
Whose livelihoods will be put at risk and how?

If the new Fab is not built the plant will shut completely in the next 5 years.

5,000 jobs gone.

That close enough to your answer?

threeball · 02-07-2019 7:49am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If the new Fab is not built the plant will shut completely in the next 5 years.

5,000 jobs gone.

That close enough to your answer?

They could pull plant anyway. Dell Did it. Once it makes economic sense they move. Are we to bend over backwards and remove any obstacles, citizens or otherwise on the whim of a corporation?

You seem to be very quick to run roughshod over people's rights for the sake of a foreign corporation whose only motivation is profit.

Seth Brundle · 02-07-2019 7:54am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If the new Fab is not built the plant will shut completely in the next 5 years.

5,000 jobs gone.

That close enough to your answer?

Ok, that wasn't too hard.
Now where did you get that info that the plant will definitely close if they don't get this new fab?

Paul_Mc1988 · 02-07-2019 8:03am

Seth Brundle wrote:

Ok, that wasn't too hard. Now where did you get that info that the plant will definitely close if they don't get this new fab?

Running towards the end of the 14 nm process. Should have been ramping down already but the other fabs that were to be producing 10nm are having issues. The new fab will be 7nm. The company is under pressure from competition from AMD who are already on 7nm. Any significant delay and that fab will get the plug pulled and bye bye 5000+ jobs.

HopsAndJumps · 02-07-2019 8:09am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Ok, that wasn't too hard.
Now where did you get that info that the plant will definitely close if they don't get this new fab?

If the new fab doesn't go ahead due to delay, thats 1800 planned intel jobs + contractor and support jobs. The current plant will be starting the end of its life cycle in approximately 3 years time. Intel would not likely re-invest in Leixlip if they got stung with the proposed development. So that's the current 5000 jobs + thousands of support jobs gone.

02-07-2019 8:12am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Ok, that wasn't too hard.
Now where did you get that info that the plant will definitely close if they don't get this new fab?

The chip business is brutal.

Its hugely expensive, invest big or die for these companies with each new process.

Shefwedfan · 02-07-2019 8:12am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

His simple objection is delaying a project that will go to Israel and cost us jobs.

No bull**** planning there.

Apple did it - they bailed out and said "fcuk this" (rightfully) - they went to Denmark. A warning.

Don't be stupid. These companies will pull the plug.

They don't have to be here and if dealing with delinquent planning they won't be here.

Apple left, who cares? If companies had their way Ireland would be one big data centre....

Look at Facebook, big monster of a yoke and f**k all jobs when finished and ruined the countryside

Why is everyone so quick to bend over backwards for these companies who don’t give a care long term about anyone?

02-07-2019 8:15am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Apple left, who cares? If companies had their way Ireland would be one big data centre....

Look at Facebook, big monster of a yoke and f**k all jobs when finished and ruined the countryside

Why is everyone so quick to bend over backwards for these companies who don’t give a care long term about anyone?

Thousands employed and the government make buckets of cash from these companies.

The educations system, health etc etc all have to be paid for. Ask the nurses if they will take an "I owe you" next time they go on strike.

Poor Uncle Tom · 02-07-2019 8:18am

Corporate bullying, nothing more or less. To try to skew peoples attention towards one man exercising his rights in order to disguise the blatant greed of multinationals, facilitated by the self promoting snakes in the IDA.

The ONLY reason these corporations are willing to set up here is to avail of the low corporate tax rate. Corporations do not run on patriotism, if they did they would set up in the good ol' US of A. They are cajoled into setting up stall here in the misguided hope that once they are here they will stay. Lets be very clear, once their profit margins sink, they are gone.

Personally, I don't believe we need that crap here. Raise the corporate tax rate, provide a level playing field and see who stays,

HopsAndJumps · 02-07-2019 8:24am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Corporate bullying, nothing more or less. To try to skew peoples attention towards one man exercising his rights in order to disguise the blatant greed of multinationals, facilitated by the self promoting snakes in the IDA.

The ONLY reason these corporations are willing to set up here is to avail of the low corporate tax rate. Corporations do not run on patriotism, if they did they would set up in the good ol' US of A. They are cajoled into setting up stall here in the misguided hope that once they are here they will stay. Lets be very clear, once their profit margins sink, they are gone.

Personally, I don't believe we need that crap here. Raise the corporate tax rate, provide a level playing field and see who stays,

And lets all return to the dole queues of the 80's and early 90's?

Kermit.de.frog · 02-07-2019 8:25am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

provide a level playing field and see who stays,

No one will stay - what are you going to do then?

Shefwedfan · 02-07-2019 8:26am

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Thousands employed and the government make buckets of cash from these companies.

The educations system, health etc etc all have to be paid for. Ask the nurses if they will take an "I owe you" next time they go on strike.

All these companies are getting huge grants and paying very little tax which we turn a blind eye to......if they paid proper tax we would be loaded

MrMusician18 · 02-07-2019 8:27am

threeball wrote: »

Like I said, if he was left alone day one there wouldn't be an objection. Any grudge he bares is totally understandable. I'd like to see your reaction if they tried to CPO your family home so they could set up a supervalu. You are standing in the way of jobs aren't you.

No it isn't. The common good must be considered and win out.

As long as he is compensated fairly then there is no issue as far as I'm concerned. Id have no problem with my property being CPO'd

Kermit.de.frog · 02-07-2019 8:29am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

All these companies are getting huge grants and paying very little tax which we turn a blind eye to......if they paid proper tax we would be loaded

Again - when they all leave abruptly and there is no tax - what are you going to do?

Not to mention the 100's of thousands left unemployed.

Who will pay? Oh, sorry we won't be able to pay so it's the IMF.

Only we used our quota in the crisis so I guess it's third world.

Poor Uncle Tom · 02-07-2019 8:32am

HopsAndJumps wrote: »

And lets all return to the dole queues of the 80's and early 90's?

Perspective please, these corporations are not the godsent saving grace you seem to think they are. These are not the only employers here. We need to focus on backing the small start ups more, encourage the self employed, nurture the SME's. That's where the future of Ireland is, in the small local businesses with a vested interest in the local areas they are set up in.

Not a multinational corporation who couldn't care whether it was set up in Sandymount or Sahara once its investors get their shovels of cash.

Shefwedfan · 02-07-2019 8:32am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Again - when they all leave abruptly and there is no tax - what are you going to do?

Not to mention the 100's of thousands left unemployed.

Who will pay? Oh, sorry we won't be able to pay so it's the IMF.

Only we used our quota in the crisis so I guess it's third world.

Don’t be so dramatic

All I’m saying is we don’t have to bend over backwards to every whim they have

MrMusician18 · 02-07-2019 8:35am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Don’t be so dramatic

All I’m saying is we don’t have to bend over backwards to every whim they have

Deciding to invest billions of dollars in building a new plant in not a whim.

Kermit.de.frog · 02-07-2019 8:37am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Perspective please, these corporations are not the godsent saving grace you seem to think they are. These are not the only employers here. We need to focus on backing the small start ups more, encourage the self employed, nurture the SME's. That's where the future of Ireland is, in the small local businesses with a vested interest in the local areas they are set up in.

Not a multinational corporation who couldn't care whether it was set up in Sandymount or Sahara once its investors get their shovels of cash.

They are the most important employers here.

Increase tax they go. Simple as that. You think they are in Ireland for the weather?

You may hate them but they provide huge number of high quality jobs and wages.

You want to return Ireland to the developing world?

Use your head.

Poor Uncle Tom · 02-07-2019 8:37am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No one will stay - what are you going to do then?

Then good riddance! if the only reason they are staying is corporate greed then go.

MrMusician18 · 02-07-2019 8:40am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Then good riddance! if the only reason they are staying is corporate greed then go.

Did you enjoy the 2008-2012 recession?

There are far more people in this country who would rather not go through something similar again, and that's exactly what would happen if the MNCs walked.

Kermit.de.frog · 02-07-2019 8:41am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Then good riddance! if the only reason they are staying is corporate greed then go.

Morality.

And you are prepared for the consequences?

Like not being able to eat?

HopsAndJumps · 02-07-2019 8:41am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Perspective please, these corporations are not the godsent saving grace you seem to think they are. These are not the only employers here. We need to focus on backing the small start ups more, encourage the self employed, nurture the SME's. That's where the future of Ireland is, in the small local businesses with a vested interest in the local areas they are set up in.

Not a multinational corporation who couldn't care whether it was set up in Sandymount or Sahara once its investors get their shovels of cash.

Actually they are the godsend for Ireland. Before dell left, Intel + Dell, just those two companies were 4% of GDP. That's not taking into account all the pharma we have in this country. without multinationals we would have the economy and standard of living of Portugal

We should be relying on ourselves in the manor you said but that not the way it is here unfortunately.

If we didn't have the low corporation tax we wouldn't have all these companies. Former Intel ceo and board member said recently that there were 5 reasons that they moved to Ireland. There is only one of those reasons left. Corporation tax.

Kermit.de.frog · 02-07-2019 8:43am

HopsAndJumps wrote: »

Actually they are the godsend for Ireland. Before dell left, Intel + Dell, just those two companies were 4% of GDP. That's not taking into account all the pharma we have in this country. without multinationals we would have the economy and standard of living of Portugal

We should be relying on ourselves in the manor you said but that not the way it is here unfortunately.

If we didn't have the low corporation tax we wouldn't have all these companies. Former Intel ceo and board member said recently that there were 5 reasons that they moved to Ireland. There is only one of those reasons left. Corporation tax.

These posters want fairness with other countries.

lol.

Let them starve then because it's all gone if they got their way.

Poor Uncle Tom · 02-07-2019 8:46am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Did you enjoy the 2008-2012 recession?

There are day more people in this country who would rather not go through something similar again, and that's exactly what would happen if the MNCs walked.

That's very dramatic and very silly to have allowed so many eggs in one basket, isn't it time for the government to wean itself off, to stop suckling from the corporate tit, to stand up and look after the small enterprises here which in turn will keep the schools, shops, garda stations, pubs and post offices of our country from shutting down.

Deebles McBeebles · 02-07-2019 8:46am

HopsAndJumps wrote: »

Former Intel ceo and board member said recently that there were 5 reasons that they moved to Ireland. There is only one of those reasons left. Corporation tax.

Intel only came here to do 2 things, drink some beer and kick some ass. Looks like we're almost outta beer.

G'man Tommy.

HopsAndJumps · 02-07-2019 8:47am

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Intel only came here to do 2 things, drink some beer and kick some ass. Looks like we're almost outta beer.

G'man Tommy.

alright alright alrighhhhht!

MrMusician18 · 02-07-2019 8:49am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

These posters want fairness with other countries.

lol.

Let them starve then because it's all gone if they got their way.

You'd like to think that these people would learn the error of their ways of the policies they promote led to disaster. Unfortunately, it's more likely to lead them to double down and blame someone else rather than accepting the consequences of their policies.

Mrsmum · 02-07-2019 8:51am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

No it isn't. The common good must be considered and win out.

As long as he is compensated fairly then there is no issue as far as I'm concerned. Id have no problem with my property being CPO'd

All that shows is that your property plays a very minor role in who you are whereas his property is literally an extension of himself. Watching the programme last night, what good would the whole of Co Meath be to him or 10 million in the bank. He has no need of riches but would be lost, finished without his place. It is literally priceless to him. Intel were just unfortunate to have as a neighbour someone who couldn't be bought. I wouldn't blame him for having a sour taste in his mouth after all the days and nights he must have spend worrying and fretting away that his farm would be taken from him and in such an underhand way.

MrMusician18 · 02-07-2019 8:53am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

That's very dramatic and very silly to have allowed so many eggs in one basket, isn't it time for the government to wean itself off, to stop suckling from the corporate tit, to stand up and look after the small enterprises here which in turn will keep the schools, shops, garda stations, pubs and post offices of our country from shutting down.

You didn't answer the question, did you enjoy the recession? How about your family and friends? Did they take pay cuts or lose their jobs?

Let's be clear it's great to see you want that again for them. Perhaps you should tell them.

Edgware · 02-07-2019 8:58am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

That's very dramatic and very silly to have allowed so many eggs in one basket, isn't it time for the government to wean itself off, to stop suckling from the corporate tit, to stand up and look after the small enterprises here which in turn will keep the schools, shops, garda stations, pubs and post offices of our country from shutting down.

There's only limited demands for Bridie's scones and Maggies novelty tea cosies.
We need jobs and the multi nationals provide them

Poor Uncle Tom · 02-07-2019 9:04am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You didn't answer the question, did you enjoy the recession? How about your family and friends? Did they take pay cuts or lose their jobs?

Let's be clear it's great to see you want that again for them. Perhaps you should tell them.

Surely a question like that is rhetorical? Everyone in the country took cuts! Your facetious parting shot shows at least you are beginning to absorb what I'm saying and it's not sitting easy with you.

Like most of this thread, you are directing towards the wrong focus, I urge you to direct your vitriol towards the Corporations and their facilitators, I'm just a very small local employer.

ShlugEireann · 02-07-2019 9:05am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

His simple objection is delaying a project that will go to Israel and cost us jobs.

No bull**** planning there.

Apple did it - they bailed out and said "fcuk this" (rightfully) - they went to Denmark. A warning.

Don't be stupid. These companies will pull the plug.

They don't have to be here and if dealing with delinquent planning they won't be here.

How many jobs does the area need? Our unemployment figures can't get any lower. In fact, more jobs just increases wages for professionals while minimum wage workers don't get that rise so the wealth inequality increases.

And is it really good to have such a single mammoth employer? If Intel left tomorrow (which could easily happen) the whole area would collapse.

Poor Uncle Tom · 02-07-2019 9:07am

Edgware wrote: »

There's only limited demands for Bridie's scones and Maggies novelty tea cosies.
We need jobs and the multi nationals provide them

That's right, scones and tea cosies are all this country is capable of creating or producing on our own... :rolleyes:

_Brian · 02-07-2019 9:11am

ShlugEireann wrote: »

How many jobs does the area need? Our unemployment figures can't get any lower. In fact, more jobs just increases wages for professionals while minimum wage workers don't get that rise so the wealth inequality increases.

And is it really good to have such a single mammoth employer? If Intel left tomorrow (which could easily happen) the whole area would collapse.

Honestly I’d worry more about financial and software companies “walking away tomorrow” as they have no hard fixed infrastructure.

Intel on he other hand will literally burry billions of € into the ground and site delicate expensive equipment that takes months to install and commission, these facilities need to be worked to recoup the massive investment involved. It’s not something they would walk away from overnight, even to decommission, pack and ship out their old equipment takes months to years, not overnight.

Mrsmum · 02-07-2019 9:12am

ShlugEireann wrote: »

How many jobs does the area need? Our unemployment figures can't get any lower. In fact, more jobs just increases wages for professionals while minimum wage workers don't get that rise so the wealth inequality increases.

And is it really good to have such a single mammoth employer? If Intel left tomorrow (which could easily happen) the whole area would collapse.

I don't think it would be in any danger of collapse. It is so close to Dublin, effectively a Dublin suburb with excellent transport links, it would attract other businesses or be very suitable for houses for the Dublin market.

ShlugEireann · 02-07-2019 9:13am

I do find it strange how they would CPO a mans land for some jobs that would struggle to be filled and would need foreigners to be brought in, which would add more strain to public services like roads and transport, housing yet the NIMBYs constantly win.

The NIMBYs blocking Bus Connects are going to win.

The NIMBYs blocking the Metro initial plans are going to win.

The NIMBYs objecting to high rise in Dublin are going to win.

_Brian · 02-07-2019 9:14am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

That's right, scones and tea cosies are all this country is capable of creating or producing on our own... :rolleyes:

We have a huge Agri food sector under pressure at the moment, it employs 10% of people in Ireland and under a poor government it’s been ran into the ground. This isn’t scones and teacosies,

Edgware · 02-07-2019 9:17am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

That's right, scones and tea cosies are all this country is capable of creating or producing on our own... :rolleyes:

We have no raw materials, the EU are intent on undermining the agriculture industry with thr deals in South America. Who is going to provide employment?
Its wishful thinking to say we can be self sufficient. Every development is delayed or abandoned because of Nimbys many who have safe Civil Service and Public Service jobs

Deebles McBeebles · 02-07-2019 9:21am

Just concentrate all our efforts on spuds. History teaches us that this always works out and there will be no problems, ever.

ShlugEireann · 02-07-2019 9:21am

_Brian wrote: »

Honestly I’d worry more about financial and software companies “walking away tomorrow” as they have no hard fixed infrastructure.

Intel on he other hand will literally burry billions of € into the ground and site delicate expensive equipment that takes months to install and commission, these facilities need to be worked to recoup the massive investment involved. It’s not something they would walk away from overnight, even to decommission, pack and ship out their old equipment takes months to years, not overnight.

If it made sense long term they wouldn't care about the costs involved.

They added 1bn on a whim to their capital budget for additional 14nm capacity and they started construction immediately in a number of locations where 14nm is made (including Ireland).

MrMusician18 · 02-07-2019 9:24am

Edgware wrote: »

We have no raw materials, the EU are intent on undermining the agriculture industry with thr deals in South America. Who is going to provide employment?
Its wishful thinking to say we can be self sufficient. Every development is delayed or abandoned because of Nimbys many who have safe Civil Service and Public Service jobs

Bit of an unfair characterisation of the EU there. The agriculture industry wouldn't exist at all without the EU here and the Mercosur deal is the only one of the recent deals that will negatively impact the beef sector, dairy was a winner btw.

Incidentally beef was a winner in the Japanese and South Korean deals recently.

Snow Garden · 02-07-2019 9:40am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I hope this is not another Apple in Galway fiasco

This time the cost could be far more real and devastating for this area than Apple in Galway.

I believe Apple abandoned plans to build a 2nd data centre in Denmark.

REBELSAFC · 02-07-2019 9:49am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Perspective please, these corporations are not the godsent saving grace you seem to think they are. These are not the only employers here. We need to focus on backing the small start ups more, encourage the self employed, nurture the SME's. That's where the future of Ireland is, in the small local businesses with a vested interest in the local areas they are set up in.

Not a multinational corporation who couldn't care whether it was set up in Sandymount or Sahara once its investors get their shovels of cash.

Eamonn DeValera likes this post

InTheShadows · 02-07-2019 9:51am

Amazing man who is an example to us all.

InTheShadows · 02-07-2019 9:53am

ShlugEireann wrote: »

How many jobs does the area need? Our unemployment figures can't get any lower. In fact, more jobs just increases wages for professionals while minimum wage workers don't get that rise so the wealth inequality increases.

And is it really good to have such a single mammoth employer? If Intel left tomorrow (which could easily happen) the whole area would collapse.

Will ya go away out of that with that sense.

Poor Uncle Tom · 02-07-2019 9:54am

REBELSAFC wrote: »

Eamonn DeValera likes this post

I thought I heard some spinning.

Shefwedfan · 02-07-2019 9:57am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Indeed it would. That's why I can't understand why anyone would support this crank abusing the planning process to settle a grudge.

It’s not ok for the banks to throw someone out of their house when they don’t pay.....a house the bank owns till the last payment

But it is ok for Intel? When the person is fully paid up and owns the land

What sort of a crazy world do we live in

Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

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