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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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13567…325

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    #62
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    strandroad wrote: »
    And support to retain?

    I only saw the figure for repeal. It might explain why Regina Doherty was talking about a second poll...


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    #63
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I only saw the figure for repeal. It might explain why Regina Doherty was talking about a second poll...

    It's a monthly poll I think, and previously it had 48% to 30% for Repeal. Repeal would actually gain then.


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    #64
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    strandroad wrote: »
    And support for retain?
    Wasn't the last support for repeal at 48?

    In the Sunday Business post last January:
    https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/957410395639095298

    It was 49%, I had to search but last July, the Irish Times were saying 67% supported repeal so support since the extreme proposals by the government were made has caused a big fall.

    27% retain which is good, remember when the marriage referendum was mid 70s% before polling day and in the end it was 62%.

    The thing is the trend for repeal is not good.


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    #65
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,865 ✭✭✭✭January


    What is it the anti choicers say when a pill isn't going in their favour?

    Oh yeah something like - sure polls don't matter all that matters is the turn out on the day.

    Let's just stick to that.


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    #66
    iamtony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭iamtony


    RobertKK wrote: »
    In the Sunday Business post last January:
    https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/957410395639095298

    It was 49%, I had to search but last July, the Irish Times were saying 67% supported repeal so support since the extreme proposals by the government were made has caused a big fall.

    27% retain which is good, remember when the marriage referendum was mid 70s% before polling day and in the end it was 62%.

    The thing is the trend for repeal is not good.
    This poll belong s in the mid 70's


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    #67
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    January wrote: »
    What is it the anti choicers say when a pill isn't going in their favour?

    Oh yeah something like - sure polls don't matter all that matters is the turn out on the day.

    Let's just stick to that.

    Don't cry to me when the real poll is extremely close, it is the repeal side already talking about having a second referendum.


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    #68
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    If female infants are left to die in some countries were women are less valued wouldn’t it be better they be aborted before they develop the capacity to suffer than be brought to term to die of starvation and exposure? Girls won’t suddenly be more valued because they can’t be aborted.


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    #69
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,865 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Don't cry to me when the real poll is extremely close, it is the repeal side already talking about having a second referendum.

    We are practical like that. Have to make a plan just in case. Unlike the other side. Think they have it in the bag that if they actually lose they'll just sulk silently into the shadows.

    Don't you worry it won't take us 30 odd years to get another referendum. And I won't ever come crying to you either...


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    #70
    applehunter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,021 ✭✭✭applehunter


    kylith wrote: »
    If female infants are left to die in some countries were women are less valued wouldn’t it be better they be aborted before they develop the capacity to suffer than be brought to term to die of starvation and exposure? Girls won’t suddenly be more valued because they can’t be aborted.

    eeek


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    #71
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    iamtony wrote: »
    I know it's a touchy subject for many but seriously just mind your own business. If you dont want an abortion, just don't get one.

    That argument is, and always has been, nonsensical.

    If you heard someone speaking out against child abuse, would you say to them:
    "If you don't agree with child abuse, then just don't abuse a child!"

    Course you wouldn't, cause it would be a ridiculous thing to say and it's just as ridiculous to say it to those who don't agree with abortion also, as their objective is the same: to prevent the cruel mistreatment of a vulnerable human being.


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    #72
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    January wrote: »
    We are practical like that. Have to make a plan just in case. Unlike the other side. Think they have it in the bag that if they actually lose they'll just sulk silently into the shadows.

    Don't you worry it won't take us 30 odd years to get another referendum. And I won't ever come crying to you either...

    The hypocritical thing is Regina Doherty who said this, only wants another referendum if the result doesn't suit. It is not going to be like Brexit where people didn't discuss the real issues involved and should have another vote now they know the lies.
    Leo Varadkar lied when he said his abortions proposals would have abortion as something rare - when there are no restrictions to make this the case


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    #73
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK




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    #74
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    to prevent the cruel mistreatment of a vulnerable human being.

    Like the cruel mistreatment of another vulnerable human being by forcing her to carry an unwanted pregnancy to full term just to satisfy an outdated and ridiculous ideology?


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    #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    applehunter wrote: »
    eeek

    Are you here just to troll or actually take part in the debate?


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    #76
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Demonique


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You can say that, but you bring no evidence to back up your cobblers. Europe has low birth rates and abortion has a negative impact on European society.

    Translation - non-Europeans are outbreeding us, waaahhh
    david75 wrote: »
    Lot of pro life posters seem to be new accounts out of nowhere.

    I wonder how many of them are people with multiple accounts? (when I was a kid I made multiple accounts so my favourite couple would win in a shipping poll, so I wouldn't put it past people)


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    #77
    applehunter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,021 ✭✭✭applehunter


    January wrote: »
    We are practical like that. Have to make a plan just in case. Unlike the other side. Think they have it in the bag that if they actually lose they'll just sulk silently into the shadows.

    Don't you worry it won't take us 30 odd years to get another referendum. And I won't ever come crying to you either...

    The pro choice side have had 4/5 years to formulate a winning strategy but because you are made up of so many disparate factions ; the left wing (SF & Labour), trotsky's, feminazis and socially liberals from our wishy washy centrist parties you have no real leadership or clear message. You range from Simon Coveney who is in favour of repeal but not in favour of the 12 week proposal to Ruth Coppinger who would favour abortion on any grounds.

    You have shown no regard for our democracy with the citizens assembly and Oireachtas Committee to justify the whole farce in the first place.

    You have all the media behind you, the president and his wife, every political leader, George Soros, the UN.

    And you say you are practical?

    Incompetents more like.


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    #78
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    It doesn't help that they're making wild uneducated claims without facts to back them up regarding the proposed policy paper that's been linked several times.

    Nowhere does it mention anything regarding sex select abortion nor does it mention absolutely anything about proposing any other limit than a 12 week one.

    Do they even read half the sh!te they try to argue back with????


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    #79
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Are you here just to troll or actually take part in the debate?

    it would appear that contrary as to what has been said, mods seem to be turning a blind eye to obvious and not so obvious trolling in the previous thread and what's going to continue in this thread also.

    It's not that hard to tell the difference between what's an opinion and what's bait.


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    #80
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Demonique


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Before anyone votes I really wish they would make sure to make themselves fully aware of just how developed fetuses are during the latter stages of the first trimester. It's substantially more than many would like you to believe. Keep seeing it said that prenatal human beings are merely just part of 'a woman's body' but in actual reality fetuses have their own bodies. Indeed, they have their own limbs, organs, heartbeat and even their own separate DNA..................

    I don't care


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    #81
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Before anyone votes I really wish they would make sure to make themselves fully aware of just how developed fetuses are during the latter stages of the first trimester. It's substantially more than many would like you to believe. Keep seeing it said that prenatal human beings are merely just part of 'a woman's body' but in actual reality fetuses have their own bodies. Indeed, they have their own limbs, organs, heartbeat and even their own separate DNA..................


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwhIx-QZkB0



    Quite clearly human beings in the womb are not just a woman's body nor are they mere "blobs of biological matter" or "clumps of cells" (which we also often see) and it's highly disingenuous to refer to them as such. How many will vote believing this nonsense I wonder.

    If a woman's life is in danger should a pregnancy continue, then of course it's understandable for us as a civilized society to then see abortion as being more than justifiable. Fatal fetal abnormalities, similarly, but these (and other situations which are oft used in quite sanctimonious fashion) are comparatively rare reasons for why it is, statistically speaking, that women choose to have an abortion in western society. Yet despite that, discussion of these tragic situations still and all have dominated almost every debate on the topic for the last thirty years.

    What I'm getting from this is that as a civilised society we should force women who have been raped, whose fetus have been shown to fatal fetal abnormalities to carry to term and we should deny them the right not to do so because you believe that they are just a smoke screen as most western women decide to have an abortion for some other reason which you don't mention.


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    #82
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    It doesn't help that they're making wild uneducated claims without facts to back them up regarding the proposed policy paper that's been linked several times.

    Nowhere does it mention anything regarding sex select abortion nor does it mention absolutely anything about proposing any other limit than a 12 week one.

    Do they even read half the sh!te they try to argue back with????
    The sex selection stuff is a red herring. The downs syndrome argument has been refuted, so sex selection is next on the list of scare tactics.


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    #83
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,865 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »

    That's right. Cut and edit but it's OK I'll show you the full speech here.

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1224728841006221&id=191023254376790&_rdr


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    #84
    erica74
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    That argument is, and always has been, nonsensical.

    If you heard someone speaking out against child abuse, would you say to them:



    Course you wouldn't, cause it would be a ridiculous thing to say and it's just as ridiculous to say it to those who don't agree with abortion also, as their objective is the same: to prevent the cruel mistreatment of a vulnerable human being.

    What about the actual living sentient human being actually in the centre of the decision? The actual woman forced to carry on with a pregnancy she doesn't want to continue with.

    I don't care what reason any woman has for having an abortion. I literally don't care. That is her business.


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    #85
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    I like how all these people whining about 'liberals, feminazis' etc and the church and those all those kinds are happy to force a woman to carry a child to term regardless of anything, but when its born will wash their hands of the woman and the child! Mad really.


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    #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    it would appear that contrary as to what has been said, mods seem to be turning a blind eye to obvious and not so obvious trolling in the previous thread and what's going to continue in this thread also.

    It's not that hard to tell the difference between what's an opinion and what's bait.

    Well after their last reasoned post to the debate on how its all a leftist femanazi conspiracy, I've certainly made up my mind.


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    #87
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    applehunter wrote: »
    The pro choice side have had 4/5 years to formulate a winning strategy but because you are made up of so many disparate factions ; the left wing (SF & Labour), trotsky's, feminazis and socially liberals from our wishy washy centrist parties you have no real leadership or clear message. You range from Simon Coveney who is in favour of repeal but not in favour of the 12 week proposal to Ruth Coppinger who would favour abortion on any grounds.

    You have shown no regard for our democracy with the citizens assembly and Oireachtas Committee to justify the whole farce in the first place.

    You have all the media behind you, the president and his wife, every political leader, George Soros, the UN.

    And you say you are practical?

    Incompetents more like.

    That may be the biggest load of nonsense ever, particularly the bolded part. The citizens assembly would have been praised by you if it ended up going a prolife route .:rolleyes:


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    #88
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Gardai are seeking an aborted foetus from a 12 year old girl, so they can link it to a 15 year old boy so they can convict for unlawful sex. She had an abortion earlier this year, so whether they get the aborted foetus is another question.
    It is in tomorrow's Sunday Times.


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    #89
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    erica74 wrote: »
    What about the actual living sentient human being actually in the centre of the decision? The actual woman forced to carry on with a pregnancy she doesn't want to continue with.

    I don't care what reason any woman has for having an abortion. I literally don't care. That is her business.

    I read your story about your brother and I am extremely sorry you had to suffer that abuse. It scares me even more to think that if you fell pregnant due to that abuse, you wouldn't have been able to seek out an abortion due to a certain mindframe shown by people in this thread.


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    #90
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Gardai are seeking an aborted foetus from a 12 year old girl, so they can link it to a 15 year old boy so they can convict for unlawful sex. She had an abortion earlier this year, so whether they get the aborted foetus is another question.
    It is in tomorrow's Sunday Times.

    Right, the point of this anecdote is?


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    #91
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    Right, the point of this anecdote is?

    Calm down and breathe....just reporting news which involves abortion in a thread about the subject.


This discussion has been closed.
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