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'Training to train'
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15-02-2018 11:09am#1
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Thanks both!BeepBeep67 wrote: »36 weeks = 3 nice blocks.
12 weeks of ramping up your mileage, running as frequently as you can. Focus on extending your long run over this period to 2hrs+, a splattering of strides, some hill work (short sprints and hilly longer runs) and some comfortable tempo work (3 x 10mins, easy out steady back runs). This will give you a solid foundation.
8 weeks of 5-10k training with a goal race at the end (search for the 10k McMillian thread).
Then get into a 16 marathon plan.
Very helpful, thanks! I have a follow up question if you don't mind
My mileage is around 30-35 mpw currently, and I would normally go out 5-6 days. Would you still recommend 12 weeks of building?Annie get your Run wrote: »^^^What BeepBeep said^^^the benefit of knowing now you want to run DCM is that it gives you oodles of time to slowly build on your current fitness so when you start the plan you're already at an advantage. Consistency is key, and staying injury free so don't over do anything and start now with the stretching/strength routines and regular massages to keep the body in top shape.
Ugh I'm really going to have to start actually doing the stretching and strength stuff amn't i?
The massages, however, I can get on board with! 
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Great question eyrie as I'm sure there are a lot of people who have signed up to DCM2018 and are wondering how to prepare themselves for the plan. You've been given great adviceUgh I'm really going to have to start actually doing the stretching and strength stuff amn't i? The massages, however, I can get on board with!
If you have to, substitute some run time for S&C, it will pay you back two fold in the long run. One of the things that they don't tell you when you sign up for DCM or the training plans is that getting to the start line injury free is as important as the training that you do.
Eh I wouldn't be getting too excited about the massages, a good massage will usually bring tears to your eyes. If it doesn't, you either have no knots or you need a new physio
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Eh I wouldn't be getting too excited about the massages, a good massage will usually bring tears to your eyes. If it doesn't, you either have no knots or you need a new physio
Yikes, I have bucketloads of knots! Suddenly sounds a lot less appealing :eek:If you have to, substitute some run time for S&C, it will pay you back two fold in the long run. One of the things that they don't tell you when you sign up for DCM or the training plans is that getting to the start line injury free is as important as the training that you do.
Yep, I know this must be true. I used to do lots of S&C stuff actually, but I've gotten out of the habit lately and I need to get back into it.
Thanks!0 -
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Thanks both!
Very helpful, thanks! I have a follow up question if you don't mind My mileage is around 30-35 mpw currently, and I would normally go out 5-6 days. Would you still recommend 12 weeks of building?
Ugh I'm really going to have to start actually doing the stretching and strength stuff amn't i? The massages, however, I can get on board with!
That’s fairly substantial mileage weekly anyway. Not knowing how it’s divided up I’d make sure you are getting one long run in weekly and some speed sessions and then keeping the rest really really easy. You have a great base already.0 -
Thanks both!
Very helpful, thanks! I have a follow up question if you don't mind My mileage is around 30-35 mpw currently, and I would normally go out 5-6 days. Would you still recommend 12 weeks of building?
Depends on how well you want to do...Starting a plan with higher mileage means you will be able to train better and run faster. You want to settle for where you are or be better prepared?
For 5/10k training before marathon with 36 weeks, I would do
10 weeks build up to 50
6 weeks 5/10k specific 35-40
12 weeks build up to 60-65
7-8 weeks marathon specific 50-55
2-3 weeks taper
Race
Not crazy at all if you wanted to.
Build up would include easy fartleks with perceived effort of 5-6 out of 10. Moderate steady state runs between easy and marathon pace. Out and back routes coming back faster than than you go out. Strides, hill sprints, flying 100's/200's with float recovery.
Marathon Specific would be mid week interval workout 5-10 seconds faster than marathon pace, alternating long runs between steady and easy(1 mile steady; 1 mile 1 minute slower; 1 mile steady etc). Fast finish long runs, fartleks etc. Cut back mileage when transitioning from Build up to specific to account for increase in intensity.
5/10k specific would be repeats working at faster than race pace to cruise intervals at tempo pace. If doing 2 workouts per week; alternate 1 workout at mile/3k pace one week with tempo intervals next week. Second workout more specific at race pace. Cut back mileage transitioning from Build up to specific phase to account for increase in intensity.
Build up phase should always have the highest mileage every year. It is to prepare your body for specific training both aerobically and conditioning. It is the lowest intensity phase which means it should be easier to run more miles. Mileage should be cut back during specific training as the intensity is higher, most get this backwards and increase both mileage and intensity at once.0 -
Ugh I'm really going to have to start actually doing the stretching and strength stuff amn't i? The massages, however, I can get on board with!
Not only that, I'm going have to practice what I preach :eek::D:rolleyes:If you have to, substitute some run time for S&C, it will pay you back two fold in the long run.
Eh I wouldn't be getting too excited about the massages, a good massage will usually bring tears to your eyes. If it doesn't, you either have no knots or you need a new physio
So true! Yep i didn't mean a 2 hour aromatherapy back tickler - if you're a runner then those days are gone and massage now means pain. Of course the more you keep on top of them the less painful they usually are....ish! 0 -
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Great post. I'll be following with interest.
If you have to, substitute some run time for S&C, it will pay you back two fold in the long run. One of the things that they don't tell you when you sign up for DCM or the training plans is that getting to the start line injury free is as important as the training that you do.
I couldn't agree more with this. I think you followed last year's novice thread Eyrie? More than one of us ended up injured. And unfortunately we didn't all make the starting line and for some of us that did it was a roller-coaster of emotions in the weeks leading up to DCM not knowing whether we'd be lining up or not. A really good Pilates class would be a great start and you could back it up with some s&c at home a couple of other evenings. It's definitely worth sacrificing some miles for.
Best of luck with your training to train 0 -
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Really interesting responses, thanks for the input everyone. You've given me (and hopefully some other people who find themselves in the same position) lots to think about.
My plan (which I've started, but only just) had been for some 10k training now, before marathon training. But it sounds like a phase of further building might be a better approach.Testosterscone wrote: »Do you fade on easy runs over an hour?
Do you pick up niggles when you try increase mileage?
Do you struggle with 5k race paces in training?
What type of races do you find hardest/easiest?
Do you have a high knee lift and good kick back?
Do you struggle physically or mentally in races
Hmm, see trying answer these probably leads me to having to focus on the stuff I don't want to do, which I guess is exactly the point. I suspect my weaknesses are speed and probably form. Likely speed endurance too - I prefer running long (ish) to short and faster, but I take the longer stuff slowly.Build up phase should always have the highest mileage every year. It is to prepare your body for specific training both aerobically and conditioning. It is the lowest intensity phase which means it should be easier to run more miles. Mileage should be cut back during specific training as the intensity is higher, most get this backwards and increase both mileage and intensity at once.
This is an interesting way of looking at it, and not one I would have thought of at all. It makes sense.I couldn't agree more with this. I think you followed last year's novice thread Eyrie? More than one of us ended up injured. And unfortunately we didn't all make the starting line and for some of us that did it was a roller-coaster of emotions in the weeks leading up to DCM not knowing whether we'd be lining up or not.
Indeed I did, it's part of my motivation to have a go this year! But I remember well following all the highs and lows, and would certainly like to do whatever I can to make sure I get to the day itself in one piece. But sure you'll be grand this time out for your second one 0 -
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This might sound really stupid and apologies if it does, but I kind of thought the intensity in following a marathon plan for a first timer would come from the longer runs. So, for example, the Boards plan has one session and one long run per week; all the rest is easy running. Would you still need to have built your base to beyond the highest mileage week of that plan prior to starting it?
My interpretation of this was the samy as skyblue's - i.e. that you DEFINITELY don't have to be above the peak mileage before starting (this has to be true, since I'm sure only a tiny proportion of first time marathoners would meet this criteria, yet plenty of them finish and finish well), but at the same time that there may be a big benefit to being in this position if you are/can be.Remember Eyrie already has a good base and decent mileage so can use the 36 weeks to maximise potential in that time frame.
As does Huzzah! And thanks for the vote of confidence 
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I see where you are coming from but don't be daunted by it. Training to this ideal level will be beyond the reach of many novices. The boards plan will do what it says on the tin and get you around. Don't feel you HAVE to be hitting 60 miles a week to do DCM for the first time. If many of the 2018 novices read this thread they would run away in fear!!
Remember Eyrie already has a good base and decent mileage so can use the 36 weeks to maximise potential in that time frame.
Huzzah has a good base too and has no need to feel daunted at all. I'm well jealous of these 2 starting out with such a solid foundation 0 -
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My interpretation of this was the samy as skyblue's - i.e. that you DEFINITELY don't have to be above the peak mileage before starting (this has to be true, since I'm sure only a tiny proportion of first time marathoners would meet this criteria, yet plenty of them finish and finish well), but at the same time that there may be a big benefit to being in this position if you are/can be.
As does Huzzah! And thanks for the vote of confidence
Someone will have to teach me the multi quote thingy! Ah now you know you have my confidence for a long time now I could see through your sandbagging and feigned reluctance to commit to DCM :pac: It's much better that your ambitious training plans are now out in the open.
Absolutely no doubt that if someone is in the position to be able to structure their training for 36 weeks from a decent base to start with will be following a different plan to the Boards novices one by the time it comes around.0 -
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My interpretation of this was the samy as skyblue's - i.e. that you DEFINITELY don't have to be above the peak mileage before starting (this has to be true, since I'm sure only a tiny proportion of first time marathoners would meet this criteria, yet plenty of them finish and finish well), but at the same time that there may be a big benefit to being in this position if you are/can be.
That was actually my understanding as well. My question wasn't phrased very well and I guess I was thinking of it more from an injury prevention point of view, rather than a doing-well point of view, if that makes sense. Anyway, I won't be building to 60mpw, so I guess it's a moot point 0 -
Someone will have to teach me the multi quote thingy!
See the +" mark to the right of the word QUOTE at the bottom of a post? Click on that in the first post you want to quote and do the same for any other posts you want to include (it will look like nothing is happening...), then for the last post you're including click QUOTE, this will open a box and you'll see all your posts there now Easy peasy . 0 -
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Someone will have to teach me the multi quote thingy! Ah now you know you have my confidence for a long time now I could see through your sandbagging and feigned reluctance to commit to DCM :pac: It's much better that your ambitious training plans are now out in the open.
Ha! Damn, should have kept my mouth shut :pac: Unfortunately there's a hell of a difference between talking about this kind of training and actually doing it...
In all seriousness I would love to really go for the training and build up the mileage a lot higher, but I've a few other demands (who doesn't) so it's all about the balance. Might have to be a bit less ambitious for now, but we'll see 0 -
Annie get your Run wrote: »See the +" mark to the right of the word QUOTE at the bottom of a post? Click on that in the first post you want to quote and do the same for any other posts you want to include (it will look like nothing is happening...), then for the last post you're including click QUOTE, this will open a box and you'll see all your posts there now Easy peasy .
Ah aren't you some form of a genius! Thank you most kindlyExactly. The point is showing how you can progress mileage rather than saying run 60 miles, it's an example rather than do this or that. It's another option which depends on how well you want to do.
The higher mileage built up in base, the more options become available for specific training meaning there is more scope for higher intensity. If people are stronger; they can take more intensity and plans can become more specific.
What I say is not gospel but just another point of view to show you can be better prepared for the training if the time frame is long. First time marathon usually use plans like Hal higdon which are not specific but if they put the time an effort in to building a good base before marathon training, they can use a more advanced plan which will get better results as they have prepared for it. Just because it's your first time doesn't mean you have to be a beginner.
Yes the novice v beginner point is one which I hadn't considered :pac: By beginner I mean the type of person who Testosterscone references above, those with little or no work done prior to week 1 of the plan.0 -
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