Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Stop start technology

Options
  • 21-09-2016 9:11am
    #1
    joe199
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭


    What's peoples opinions on these new cars which cut the engine everytime you stop? On a personal level I just couldn't get used to it and don't think I ever could.


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Nuw
    Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Nuw


    Several rentals i had over the past couple of years had it, it does take some getting use to but in fairness, it doesn't really bother me. I found it best suited to an automatic though as you don't have to think about it at all.
    Was talking to my mechanic about it out of curiosity and he was telling me that he never encountered any issues with this system, as of yet... He also said that the starter motor is usually a lot tougher than your regular ones, so shouldn't fail, but if it did, it would a tad more expensive to replace (around +10-15%).

    It wouldn't put me off a car, because, if you really don't like it, you can always turn it off ;)


  • Options
    #3
    maximum12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 666 ✭✭✭maximum12


    joe199 wrote: »
    What's peoples opinions on these knew cars which cut the engine everytime you stop? On a personal level I just couldn't get used to it and don't think I ever could.

    Awful in diesel cars. Who wants a big shudder every time you start stop.

    The technology works very well in hybrids.


  • Options
    #4
    tossy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,587 ✭✭✭tossy


    maximum12 wrote: »
    Awful in diesel cars. Who wants a big shudder every time you start stop.

    The technology works very well in hybrids.

    I've driven an A6 TDI with stop start , you wouldn't notice the engine has even stopped never mind notice it starting. (if you weren't looking at the gauges)

    Personally though i don't like it, i always think there will be one time it won't start again. Plus you can't rev her out at the lights and look savage!


  • Options
    #5
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Great yokes for ensuring the blood is circulating to your left index finger when you get into the car first thing in the morning!:)


  • Options
    #6
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    I didn't think I'd like it, but it works very well on my diesel Focus. What's that about a shudder? Not part of my experience.

    I'm not sure how it works. On re-starting the , the noise is different and I think it may have a separate starter motor for this feature.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    philstar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭philstar


    is it bulletproof?

    cause i wouldn't like to be in at the front of a queue and the car fails to restart


  • Options
    #8
    GustavoFring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭GustavoFring


    Turn ignition to on, turn off stop/start, put on seatbelt and start it is my routine now. It's truely awful.


  • Options
    #9
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    I had it on a few rentals, and found on manual cars, I couldn't beat it
    e.g. on a VW touran diesel, it starts starting up when you press the clutch, and there was no way to get in to gear fast enough and let the clutch out before the engine being started. very impressive.

    On an auto (well, DSG) VW Golf, it wasn't as unflappable e.g. I had a slight delay until power was available after starting.

    but I found it worked excellently, and whilst I did notice the starting up (including a tiny bit of diesel rattle in the morning) if I owned the car for longer, it'd be fine. Economy on those cars was excellent too (albeit I'm sure plenty of emissions)


  • Options
    #10
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    I rented one with stop-start and an automatic transmission. Very easy to learn and used astonishingly little petrol. I don't think I'd like it on a manual transmission at all.


  • Options
    #11
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,043 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    I've heard anecdotal stories that Stop/Start tech, is causing problems with Alternators in some BMWs after about 4 or 5 years.

    When the engine stops, all the ancillaries are still working.
    Lights, radio, A/C, heated seats, satnav etc etc

    lots of draw on the battery , which in turns means the alternator is pretty much constantly working to keep the battery charged.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    I love it my car. I actually feel slightly uneasy now if I sitting at lights and the engine is running. It's never failed to restart for me and it's not a fear I have. As someone else said, with mine as soon as you put my foot on the clutch the engine is going again before I can even get it into gear. It causes no delay at all.

    If it's a really hot day and I've the A/C on full blast, the engine will normally restart itself as required to keep everything running.

    The only issue is, and I've only heard this recently, is that the constant stopping and staring is bad for the timing chain on BMWs, hence their regular timing chain problems.


  • Options
    #13
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    maximum12 wrote: »
    The technology works very well in hybrids.

    The technology is completely different in hybrids. In Toyota/Lexus hybrids there is no starter motor (no alternator either) - you have two "motor-generators" (they work in both directions) connected to the transmission in different ways - one (MG1) used for either starting the petrol engine or taking power from it (e.g. to charge batteries), and the other (MG2) for either driving the wheels or regenerative braking. That is simplifying things but if you want more detail see here.

    MG1 is a lot more powerful than a traditional starter and has a much bigger power source (the hybrid batteries, not 12V auxiliary battery), so can start the petrol engine almost seamlessly. Also you get propulsion from MG2, so you can start moving before the petrol engine even starts (if the load/speed is low enough you won't need the ICE at all).


  • Options
    #14
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    mikeecho wrote: »
    I've heard anecdotal stories that Stop/Start tech, is causing problems with Alternators in some BMWs after about 4 or 5 years.

    When the engine stops, all the ancillaries are still working.
    Lights, radio, A/C, heated seats, satnav etc etc

    lots of draw on the battery , which in turns means the alternator is pretty much constantly working to keep the battery charged.

    Not so on my car, if the auxiliaries are on, the stop/start will restart as soon as the battery dips a little or may not operate at all. It always makes me jump when it restarts unexpectedly!


  • Options
    #15
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    savagethegoat wrote: »
    Not so on my car, if the auxiliaries are on, the stop/start will restart as soon as the battery dips a little or may not operate at all. It always makes me jump when it restarts unexpectedly!

    I thought you'd hardly notice it start?



    So that it could run the alternator.


  • Options
    #16
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    joe199 wrote: »
    What's peoples opinions on these new cars which cut the engine everytime you stop? On a personal level I just couldn't get used to it and don't think I ever could.

    It is a brilliant way of cutting CO2 emission and thus relevant taxes. Real life savings in fuel consumption aren't as big - in my case it is 2-3%...

    Although it works pretty well in my automatic and I wasn't ever able to catch it, I hate it with every piece of my body. There is a voice on my shoulder constantly telling me "that's the turbo going down (when stopped for traffic lights shortly after getting out of motorway) etc". I switch it off every time I start the car.

    I could live with S&S in a manual car (if I ever wanted a manual...), where you can control it with the clutch. In an automatic it's a no-go for me, unless it would engage only on very strong brake press.


  • Options
    #17
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    Why would it be worse in an automatic? I assume you have a left foot...


  • Options
    #18
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    grogi wrote: »
    It is a brilliant way of cutting CO2 emission and thus relevant taxes. Real life savings in fuel consumption aren't as big - in my case it is 2-3%...

    I could live with S&S in a manual car, where you can control it with the clutch, but in an automatic I hate it with every piece of my body... Even though it works pretty well.

    How does it work on an automatic? Does it just restart when you press the accelerator?


  • Options
    #19
    Senecio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭Senecio


    I guess in a manual you can defeat/cheat it by always leaving it in gear and never taking your foot off the clutch at the lights?


  • Options
    #20
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    maximum12 wrote: »
    Awful in diesel cars. Who wants a big shudder every time you start stop.

    The technology works very well in hybrids.

    Can't say I notice any shudder when my passat stops/starts.
    I too thought I would never get used to it, but now I hardly notice it.


  • Options
    #21
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    zilog_jones wrote: »
    Why would it be worse in an automatic? I assume you have a left foot...

    It engages everytime you stop. Imagine a RB, and cars going forward 4-5m at a time... That's a handful of restarts for a single roundabout...

    In a manual it will not switch the engine off if the car is in gear, so you can slowly make progress without switch off, but save fuel on traffic lights.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    Topper Harley wrote: »
    grogi wrote: »
    It is a brilliant way of cutting CO2 emission and thus relevant taxes. Real life savings in fuel consumption aren't as big - in my case it is 2-3%...

    I could live with S&S in a manual car, where you can control it with the clutch, but in an automatic I hate it with every piece of my body... Even though it works pretty well.

    How does it work on an automatic? Does it just restart when you press the accelerator?

    Yes
    Senecio wrote: »
    I guess in a manual you can defeat/cheat it by always leaving it in gear and never taking your foot off the clutch at the lights?

    Yes, or if there's an override button


  • Options
    #23
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Topper Harley wrote: »
    How does it work on an automatic? Does it just restart when you press the accelerator?

    Lift your foot slightly off the brake and it starts again


  • Options
    #24
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,421 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    I have it on my petrol Nissan Pulsar, and I hardly notice it any more apart from the display that lights up informing me of how many kg of CO2 I've saved. No "judder", and it starts every time without fail. There's a button to deactivate it but I've seen no reason to do so so far anyway.

    It can be a bit picky as to when it actually kicks in or not. It depends on a whole raft of things but mainly the battery charge state so I'm informed by Nissan.


  • Options
    #25
    White Ninja
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭White Ninja


    Senecio wrote: »
    I guess in a manual you can defeat/cheat it by always leaving it in gear and never taking your foot off the clutch at the lights?

    Keeping your foot on the clutch wouldn't do the release bearing any favours, could end up costing a fortune.

    How much fuel does a car actually burn at lights? obviously it depends where you do most of your driving, but unless your in a city, I would have thought the savings would be negligible.
    I wouldn't be into it to be honest, the more complicated cars are the more stuff there is to go wrong.


  • Options
    #26
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    White Ninja wrote: »
    Keeping your foot on the clutch wouldn't do the release bearing any favours, could end up costing a fortune.

    If it is the habit, true. If you do it with full awareness and occasionally just to let things cool down - not so much...
    White Ninja wrote: »
    How much fuel does a car actually burn at lights? obviously it depends where you do most of your driving, but unless your in a city, I would have thought the savings would be negligible.
    I wouldn't be into it to be honest, the more complicated cars are the more stuff there is to go wrong.

    0.5-1l/h.


  • Options
    #27
    RoyalMarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭RoyalMarine


    Zero issues with it. Took an hour or so to get use to it.
    Very handy for city driving when you could be at a standstill for 5mins or more.


  • Options
    #28
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    I thought you'd hardly notice it start?



    So that it could run the alternator.

    well you experience a starter motor cut in so you couldn't really not notice it


  • Options
    #29
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    savagethegoat wrote: »
    well you experience a starter motor cut in so you couldn't really not notice it

    Not all cars restart with the starter... My barge uses a reversible alternator to turn the engine and super-capacitor to get the energy from (which is charged during by regenerative braking).

    Hardly any additional wear-and-tear on the battery and the starter. But still hate it :D


  • Options
    #30
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    Senecio wrote: »
    I guess in a manual you can defeat/cheat it by always leaving it in gear and never taking your foot off the clutch at the lights?

    you can turn it off if you wish, I very rarely do.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    savagethegoat wrote: »
    well you experience a starter motor cut in so you couldn't really not notice it
    But no shudder/vibration. Fair enough!





    Is the water pump on start stop systems generally
    a) shtandard pump, not spinning during all the shutdowns
    b) standard, but with supplemental electric pump
    c) all electric


Advertisement