OHP and shoulders

caviardreams · 01-08-2016 8:49pm #1

Hi guys

Most of my lifts progress slowly but surely but I am really stuck on overhead pressing. I have been a bit very guilty of neglecting shoulders in the past (I have also had a long term injury that has hindered things a bit) but for the past 3 months I have been doing OHP twice a week (5 sets at a heavy weight 5-6 reps one day and another day 5 sets at a lighter weight 10ish reps with a drop set for some volume). Honestly I am still stuck at pretty much the same weights DBwise and not seeing much progress at all.

Is there any good assistance work that might help? I have been doing lateral raises 2-3 times a week and occasionally front raises and cuban presses with a very light weight but I am not sure if these are a good use of my time as I am a bit frustrated at getting nowhere shoulder-wise. With shoulder stuff in particular I try to be very conscious of mind-muscle connection to get my form right perhaps at the cost of moving up in weights, but I actually find I really need to concentrate when doing shoulders more than any other exercise to try and activate the muscle.

Would really appreciate any advice on some assistance work or other tips that might help me improve and stop me being stuck on 8kg DBs for sets of 10 forever. And ever.

Dtp1979 · 01-08-2016 8:59pm

caviardreams wrote: »

Hi guys

Most of my lifts progress slowly but surely but I am really stuck on overhead pressing. I have been a bit very guilty of neglecting shoulders in the past (I have also had a long term injury that has hindered things a bit) but for the past 3 months I have been doing OHP twice a week (5 sets at a heavy weight 5-6 reps one day and another day 5 sets at a lighter weight 10ish reps with a drop set for some volume). Honestly I am still stuck at pretty much the same weights DBwise and not seeing much progress at all.

Is there any good assistance work that might help? I have been doing lateral raises 2-3 times a week and occasionally front raises and cuban presses with a very light weight but I am not sure if these are a good use of my time as I am a bit frustrated at getting nowhere shoulder-wise. With shoulder stuff in particular I try to be very conscious of mind-muscle connection to get my form right perhaps at the cost of moving up in weights, but I actually find I really need to concentrate when doing shoulders more than any other exercise to try and activate the muscle.

Would really appreciate any advice on some assistance work or other tips that might help me improve and stop me being stuck on 8kg DBs for sets of 10 forever. And ever.

Did you try apply hanleys want a simple program to get stronger approach. I'm doing an OHP day and making good progress on it. On the second 6 weeks now and I'm doing Arnold press, seated barbell press, face pulls Cuban press as assistance

caviardreams · 01-08-2016 9:43pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Did you try apply hanleys want a simple program to get stronger approach. I'm doing an OHP day and making good progress on it. On the second 6 weeks now and I'm doing Arnold press, seated barbell press, face pulls Cuban press as assistance

Thanks - yeah I did it, or something very similar (a programme from Hanley's webinar series) a while back, but not for shoulders, so that's a good idea. At the moment I do back and shoulders on the same day but maybe I just need to absolutely ram the shoulders to death one day a week and see how it goes

Dtp1979 · 01-08-2016 9:47pm

caviardreams wrote: »

Thanks - yeah I did it, or something very similar (a programme from Hanley's webinar series) a while back, but not for shoulders, so that's a good idea. At the moment I do back and shoulders on the same day but maybe I just need to absolutely ram the shoulders to death one day a week and see how it goes

Well it's workin for me and I've a dreadful OHP. And my long dangly arms don't help either:)

caviardreams · 01-08-2016 10:07pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Well it's workin for me and I've a dreadful OHP. And my long dangly arms don't help either:)

I have long arms too

I'll use that as an excuse to make myself feel better!

Dtp1979 · 01-08-2016 10:18pm

caviardreams wrote: »

I have long arms too I'll use that as an excuse to make myself feel better!

Do, I blame my arms after bench pressing too

Alf Veedersane · 01-08-2016 10:26pm

So you do 5 sets of 5-6 and 5 sets of 10 another night?

Thing is with DBs, you're looking at 2.5kg jumps so at a certain point you can hit a plateau for a bit.

Have you tried either adding volume at the weights at 5x5/6 and 5/10 rather than just a drop set for volume?

You could try upping the weight and building up to the set /rep rangers...you could manipulate rest times...you could do some tempo work. Plenty of ways to vary what you do rather than just weight til such time as you can up the weight.

Mellor · 02-08-2016 1:12am

On heavy day, the first week, what reps and weight did you do?
What are you doing now?

The main issue with OHP is that it's a naturally smaller lift than the rest of the "big 6". So a standard jump is relatively more compared to the others.
If you are lifting lighter weights that issue is compounded further. I'm trying to jump from 28kg to 30kg, 7% and it's a balls.
10kg to 12kg is 20%

caviardreams · 02-08-2016 10:10am

I was doing 5x5 with 10kg for 2 months or so and can now just about do 6 reps for a couple of the sets now, but not all. Was trying to gradually increase reps over time but it's not happening.

The other day I do sets of 5 sets of 10 with 7kg (and a dropset with 4kg) - 90 seconds rest - started this a month ago after I switched from having done 8kg x 10 x 5 sets for 6 weeks as wasn't able to increase my reps to 11 so thought I would try something else.

Some good suggestions there to think about, thanks guys.

Mellor · 02-08-2016 10:54am

If I got 5x5 I'd usually increase the load. The issue here that here a 20-25% increase is probably more than your max (10-12% over 5rm).

There's two approaches I'd try in your position.

Switch to barbell presses for a while. You'll be lifting double current DBs, but with relatively smaller increases. You'll get 20kg X 5, then give 22.5kg a shot.
Stick with DBs, but find a way to divide the jump to the next SB. Can't lift 12kg? Put a pair of wrist weights on, say .25kg or .5kg, and lift the 10kgs. There's it's a PR. Repeat next week with something heavier.

Hanley · 02-08-2016 11:22am

Weekly progression:

PHASE 1
6kg 4x15
7kg 4x12
8kg 4x10
9kg 4x8
10kg 4x5-6

PHASE 2
7kg 4x15
8kg 4x12
9kg 4x10
10kg 4x8
11kg 4x5-6

...then just do whatever other assistance work you want after. The ones DTP suggested would be good.

caviardreams · 02-08-2016 12:25pm

Thanks guys - thanks Hanley will give that a shot and hopefully report back with good news in a couple of months. Much appreciated.

LuckyLloyd · 02-08-2016 12:55pm

There is also no doubt that the OHP will be the hardest lift to progress for most people, though the programming advice above is good.

Alf Veedersane · 02-08-2016 1:02pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There is also no doubt that the OHP will be the hardest lift to progress for most people

It's the reason I have 0.5kg plates.

Zillah · 02-08-2016 1:05pm

Mellor wrote: »

I'm trying to jump from 28kg to 30kg, 7% and it's a balls.

Yeah, I am sitting on 27.5kg DBOHP and the thought of jumping all the way to 30kg as the next increment is not exactly exciting.

Mellor · 02-08-2016 1:24pm

Zillah wrote: »

Yeah, I am sitting on 27.5kg DBOHP and the thought of jumping all the way to 30kg as the next increment is not exactly exciting.

I was genuinely happy when my gym upgraded the DB to 2kg increments. It's the little things.

Alf Veedersane · 02-08-2016 2:04pm

Mellor wrote: »

I was genuinely happy when my gym upgraded the DB to 2kg increments. It's the little things.

Used to be a set of DBs going up in 2kg increments from 16 to 38 along with the others going up in 2.5kgs.

Was great to be able to go 20 - 22 - 22.5 - 24 - 25 - 26 - 27.5.

Mellor · 02-08-2016 2:14pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Used to be a set of DBs going up in 2kg increments from 16 to 38 along with the others going up in 2.5kgs.

Was great to be able to go 20 - 22 - 22.5 - 24 - 25 - 26 - 27.5.

We have 2kg jumps from 2kg right up to 50kg,
The other set were dumped, but the other branch of the gym has them, if I needed a rock the mini jump

Dtp1979 · 02-08-2016 6:56pm

While we're on the subject, what would be classed at a good standing OHP with barbell?

Hanley · 02-08-2016 7:00pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

While we're on the subject, what would be classed at a good standing OHP with barbell?

Bodyweight.

Nervous Wreck · 02-08-2016 7:02pm

Hanley wrote: »

Bodyweight.

Yeah but whose bodyweight?

.......:(

Hanley · 02-08-2016 7:06pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Yeah but whose bodyweight?

.......:(

Ones

caviardreams · 02-08-2016 7:10pm

Hanley wrote: »

Bodyweight.

Right now I actually think I have more chance of getting my bodyweight down to 25kg than I do of ever OHPing 65kg+

Zillah · 02-08-2016 7:55pm

I can OHP my nephew's bodyweight quite easily. Can we go with that?

Dtp1979 · 02-08-2016 7:56pm

Zillah wrote: »

I can OHP my nephew's bodyweight quite easily. Can we go with that?

Sounds good to me

JJayoo · 02-08-2016 11:33pm

OP hows your form? Have you any vids or have you gotten anyone to check it out

Mellor · 03-08-2016 1:36am

Hanley wrote: »

Bodyweight.

Strict or pushed?

Hanley · 03-08-2016 8:11am

Mellor wrote: »

Strict or pushed?

Press. Not a push press.

Transform · 03-08-2016 8:18am

id also add in make sure you've decent rom in your shoulders and ensure you're doing some external rotator cuff work and powell raises etc

caviardreams · 03-08-2016 10:41am

JJayoo wrote: »

OP hows your form? Have you any vids or have you gotten anyone to check it out

Don't have any videos unfortunately - my form is something I am conscious of and I am sure it could definitely be improved. But I do try and pay attention to my form on shoulder stuff more than any other area to be honest as I find it so difficult. I do them with a neutral grip so the dumbell just touches my shoulder at the bottom, and try to make sure not to lean back, but keep everything directly overhead in a straight line. I can put my arms over my head when standing against a wall without reaching my neck out so I think my shoulder mobility is not the worst (though again, could definitely be improved!)

I do a load of shoulder dislocates, band pull aparts, very light rear delt flyes too just for mobility a few times a week but am going to give the powell raises a go as well. They look interesting!

Thanks again for all the advice!

Alf Veedersane · 03-08-2016 11:34am

caviardreams wrote: »

my form is something I am conscious of and I am sure it could definitely be improved.

Get heavy DBs, have someone help you get them up to lockout, then do three reps through a 6" range of motion before dropping them from the top and making some sort of loud grunt.

Gains.

OHP and shoulders

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