Dublin - BusConnects

BonnieSituation · 17-05-2021 6:05pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Then why even bother with an icon? :rolleyes:
Bad design is bad design.

I agree that putting bus on the front of the icon is somewhat tautologous, but let's be frank here. It's clearly a bloody bus.

It's not like it's an icon on a wall in an office building with no context.

It's an icon, atop a pole at the side of a street. What else might it represent?

No amount of acting all Helen Lovejoy-esque about the blind leper in a wheel chair who can only speak Arabic on Tuesday mornings being unable to distinguish between a bus and a train is gonna change the fact that, it's a bloody bus.

There's more to criticise than that icon and yascaoimhin's idea of a more iconic flag is worthy of further discussion as well.

But let's have some perspective.

Thelonious Monk · 17-05-2021 6:53pm

cgcsb wrote: »

2023 to 2024 but could still be cancelled by then. There'll be nothing like that on the h spine anyway.

That's when the real fun will start, the Mannix's of this world wont let CPOing etc happen without a long drawn out fight.

cgcsb · 17-05-2021 8:19pm

Are they STILL making the Irish version of place names italic? Why on gods green earth? Does this not annoy the life out of people? Why italic? Just do the whole thing in italic so.

GT89 · 17-05-2021 10:40pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Yes it does - but will that entice people out of their cars and onto buses, especially for orbital journeys?

Leave the car behind for a bus that’ll trundle along and possibly wait at certain locations to catch up on the schedule.

It’s a very fine balancing act getting the running times right.

Thing is though buses running way ahead of schedule and leaving early isn't going to entice people out of their cars either. People want a service they can depend on. I haven't really noticed go ahead buses going a whole lot slower than DB routes and I've been using them since they started operations in 2018.

Few times I've seen them pulling stopping at bus stops opening and closing the doors with no one getting on or off but I haven't noticed them trundling along. During normal circumstances at least.

18-05-2021 12:29am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I agree that putting bus on the front of the icon is somewhat tautologous, but let's be frank here. It's clearly a bloody bus.

It's not like it's an icon on a wall in an office building with no context.

It's an icon, atop a pole at the side of a street. What else might it represent?

No amount of acting all Helen Lovejoy-esque about the blind leper in a wheel chair who can only speak Arabic on Tuesday morning's being unable to distinguish between a bus and a train is gonna change the fact that, it's a bloody bus.

There's more to criticise than that icon and yascaoimhin's idea of a more iconic flag is worthy of further discussion as well.

But let's have some perspective.

They're spending millions (tens of millions?) on the redesign - it's valid to criticise elements of such.

Stop ranting and make a better argument than going on increasingly weird segues about arabic, simpsons characters and whether someone is blind or not.

BonnieSituation · 18-05-2021 12:43am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They're spending millions (tens of millions?) on the redesign - it's valid to criticise elements of such.

Stop ranting and make a better argument than going on increasingly weird segues about arabic, simpsons characters and whether someone is blind or not.

Me? Segues? Surely not.

GT89 wrote: »

True but a native Chinese or Arabic speaker might not realise that

Methinks you might have missed wee GT89's contribution, since deleted, which I was parodying.

Perhaps wind your own neck in yourself before you go around "ranting" at others especially seeing as your contributions on the last couple of pages have been you jumping in with two feet. A wee bit rich.

18-05-2021 4:08am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Methinks you might have missed wee GT89's contribution, since deleted, which I was parodying.

So you understand neither parody nor hyperbole, got it.

Perhaps wind your own neck in yourself before you go around "ranting" at others especially seeing as your contributions on the last couple of pages have been you jumping in with two feet. A wee bit rich.

You also clearly don't understand what a rant is (here's a hint, two sentences do not make one)

You posted that having a useful visual icon that made it clear and obvious what the stop is for was unnecessary because it was self-evidently a bus stop.

I posted the obvious question as to why even bother with an icon if that's true, and that bad design is bad design (regardless of functionality).

You then wrote 6 sentences, none of which addressed my two simple points while having a wee auld grandstanding rant.

P.S. As a bonus, you also don't understand what the word tautologous means. It refers to either logical arguments or written sentences, the word you were looking for was redundant. Perhaps you should try to write clearer rather than 'cleverer'? It might also help you make an actual response to what someone posts rather than making the thread about you.

Pete_Cavan · 18-05-2021 7:15am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You posted that having a useful visual icon that made it clear and obvious what the stop is for was unnecessary because it was self-evidently a bus stop.

That's not accurate. I'm pretty sure his/her point was that whether the icon is a single or double decker bus is irrelevant, as the whole context will make it clear it is a bus stop. I think it's a fair point, whether it's a single or double decker bus on the icon isn't going to make it any more or less recognisable as a bus stop.

BonnieSituation · 18-05-2021 10:15am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you understand neither parody nor hyperbole, got it.

You also clearly don't understand what a rant is (here's a hint, two sentences do not make one)

You posted that having a useful visual icon that made it clear and obvious what the stop is for was unnecessary because it was self-evidently a bus stop.

I posted the obvious question as to why even bother with an icon if that's true, and that bad design is bad design (regardless of functionality).

You then wrote 6 sentences, none of which addressed my two simple points while having a wee auld grandstanding rant.

P.S. As a bonus, you also don't understand what the word tautologous means. It refers to either logical arguments or written sentences, the word you were looking for was redundant. Perhaps you should try to write clearer rather than 'cleverer'? It might also help you make an actual response to what someone posts rather than making the thread about you.

Wow.

Look at this guy.

Eh, thanks for demonstrating to me what a rant actually is.

Where would we be without your input I wonder?

Probably standing with our Chinese and Arabic speaking friends at the bus stop waiting on a train no doubt.

BonnieSituation · 18-05-2021 10:18am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

That's not accurate. I'm pretty sure his/her point was that whether the icon is a single or double decker bus is irrelevant, as the whole context will make it clear it is a bus stop. I think it's a fair point, whether it's a single or double decker bus on the icon isn't going to make it any more or less recognisable as a bus stop.

I thought my point was pretty damn clear. But then again, some people all too readily let the red mist descend, for God knows what reason.

In all my years on boards and in my professional career I don't think I've ever seen such "passion" for an icon atop a bus stop.

If they put as much effort into their public submissions as they do on here losing the rag, imagine what we could all achieve. Such misplaced ranty energy. Shame.

Sam Russell · 18-05-2021 3:01pm

Mod: Can you stop the bickering.

This is about Busconnects. The redesign and rebranding is not for here. Start a new thread if you think it is worth it.

CatInABox · 02-06-2021 9:29pm

Only tangentially related to BusConnects at this stage, but the news about Deirdre Conroy, opponent to all things BusConnects, has had me in stitches today. Really made my day.

https://twitter.com/wereontheditch/status/1400027401921482763

AlmightyCushion · 02-06-2021 9:52pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Only tangentially related to BusConnects at this stage, but the news about Deirdre Conroy, opponent to all things BusConnects, has had me in stitches today. Really made my day.

https://twitter.com/wereontheditch/status/1400027401921482763

It reads like a parody story. She only thought about renting the cupboard out to a student because she had one of her kids in it and they were complaining about it.

LXFlyer · 12-06-2021 7:09am

The details of the first round of the new bus network have been published - the H Spine which will replace routes 29a, 31/a/b and 32 along the Howth Road Corridor, to be implemented on Sunday 27th June.

Full details including timetables from termini are here:
https://www.transportforireland.ie/h-spine/

A brochure has been published which shows the routes:
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/H-Spine-Booklet-ONLINE-English-11.06.21.pdf

This is a relatively straightforward set of changes from a customer perspective, as it involves the 29a becoming the H1, the 32 becoming the H2, and the 31 becoming the H3. The main changes are an increase in services, and that these routes will operate co-ordinated schedules to deliver a 7-8 minute frequency for much of the day along the Howth Road between City Centre and All Saints Road in Raheny.

These routes will retain the same routing as currently taken, with the exception of the H2 which will operate via Carrickhill Road and Wendell Avenue in Portmarnock, rather than directly along Strand Road.

An additional route H9 will operate some morning peak hour extras inbound only from All Saints Road to the city centre.

A new hourly radial route, route 6, will replace the 31a and 31b and this will operate along the Howth Road to Raheny before deviating along Watermill Road and James Larkin Road, before continuing to Sutton Cross, and then operating first via Strand Road and Shielmartin Road before continuing around Howth Head via the Summit to terminate at Howth Railway Station.

Services will have longer operating hours along the corridor (first outbound buses at 05:00 (Mon/Fri), 06:00 (Sat) and 07:00 (Sun), with last departure from city centre at midnight (Mon-Fri and Sunday), and 00:15 on Saturdays.

Overall there will be about 40 extra departures on the corridor in each direction Monday-Friday, and over 50 extra in each direction on Saturday and on Sunday.

The only other change for now is that the 102 and 32x will have a small routing change in Portmarnock where they will route directly along Strand Road rather than via Wendell Avenue and Carrickbrack Road.

This spine really is a test-bed for the operator (Dublin Bus in this case) before we get into much more complicated changes such as the C Spine later this year.

No fare changes are happening with this round of changes - that will happen with the C Spine (including the 90 minute ticket I expect) as it will involve quite a few new local and orbital bus routes which will result in more connections being made.

Overall, the changes are positive, with longer operating hours and increased service levels throughout the day across the corridor.

The only potential downside that I see, is that the number of the departures from Baldoyle on the H1 will be one less between 07:30 and 08:30 compared with the 29a, and simlilarly the H2 has one less departure from Malahide during that period (there will be extras from further in at All Saints Road).

yascaoimhin · 17-06-2021 9:49am

Hearing now that the planning application for the Core Bus Corridors has been pushed back to September

cgcsb · 17-06-2021 9:58am

yascaoimhin wrote: »

Hearing now that the planning application for the Core Bus Corridors has been pushed back to September

Expected as much, in fact expected a 2022 application

Peregrine · 17-06-2021 10:20am

6 in September, 6 in October. That's final.

cgcsb · 17-06-2021 10:29am

Peregrine wrote: »

6 in September, 6 in October. That's final.

and the other 4?

Peregrine · 17-06-2021 10:37am

cgcsb wrote: »

and the other 4?

There will only be 12 planning applications. A few are being grouped together. Like Clondalkin-Drimnagh and Greenhills-City Centre.

If one gets held up, the other 11 can still go ahead.

cgcsb · 17-06-2021 10:41am

I'd be delighted if we could see some work start at the end of 2022. In my view the village bus gates like at Rathmines and Stoneybatter are the most important parts. I would have preferred to see them put in during lockdown to prevent a return to gridlock.

All seems to have gone quiet on the enforement front. I seem to remember a year ago Ann Graham was going to make a statement 'imminently' on the camera enforcement issue, without which the whole project will fail.

Chris_5339762 · 24-06-2021 2:48pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/busconects-plans-5476159-Jun2021/

TheJournal (Yes, I know) saying that H Spine goes live this Sunday.

Here are some comments, for posterity.

Nothing agreed with drivers to change of terms and conditions. Strike action Looming

Do it slowly and in phases to avoid people copping on to the fact this is a terrible idea. Very cynical and sly

wearing a Glasgow shirt would think you have little knowledge of Dublin Bus routes and its employees conditions, best to comment on your own city’s Bus service and leave this one to us Dubs.

The wonderous DublinLive are reporting it too, without their usual extreme hysteria.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/what-bus-connects-how-change-20890010

odyssey06 · 24-06-2021 9:46pm

Is the no6 actually going along watermill road and saint lawrence road or is that just the name of the stop on the howth road?

LXFlyer · 24-06-2021 10:40pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is the no6 actually going along watermill road and saint lawrence road or is that just the name of the stop on the howth road?

The descriptions on the route diagrams are stop names.

The 6 will operate along the Howth Road, Watermill Road and James Larkin Road.

The route map is on this page:

https://www.transportforireland.ie/h-spine/

crazy 88 · 25-06-2021 1:29am

The fanfare around BusConnects would make you think buses are being introduced to Dublin for the first time to replace horse and carts

Shouldn't a bus (or any public transport) system be operated in such a way that it improves and evolves over time as part of its remit and day to day operations. Are Dublin Bus/the NTA basically acknowledging they've operated a static transport system with practically no evolution to justify a large investment? And that cycle will be repeated in busconnects 2,3 etc.

AngryLips · 25-06-2021 8:03am

I'm glad to see that the causeway crossing to bull Island is finally going to be served by public transport with the new number 6 service. The lack of a bus service at this location was a serious oversight until now for one of Dublin's best amenities

JohnnyChimpo · 25-06-2021 9:12am

crazy 88 wrote: »

Shouldn't a bus (or any public transport) system be operated in such a way that it improves and evolves over time as part of its remit and day to day operations. Are Dublin Bus/the NTA basically acknowledging they've operated a static transport system with practically no evolution to justify a large investment? And that cycle will be repeated in busconnects 2,3 etc.

Systems can occasionally have large overhauls, which kinda necessitate some public engagement. Prior to this routes were added and altered continuously for decades with no "fanfare" - not exactly sure what you're getting exercised about here

crazy 88 · 25-06-2021 4:05pm

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

not exactly sure what you're getting exercised about here

It's being blown out of proportion as the solution to Dublin's transport woes. It certainly won't solve it and I think it will barely make a dent.

Same as the fanfare for dart+. Electrifying a few measly KMs and adding no new stations while some countries have their entire network electrified.

LXFlyer · 25-06-2021 4:23pm

crazy 88 wrote: »

It's being blown out of proportion as the solution to Dublin's transport woes. It certainly won't solve it and I think it will barely make a dent.

Same as the fanfare for dart+. Electrifying a few measly KMs and adding no new stations while some countries have their entire network electrified.

Sorry, respectfully I would suggest that you're wrong about that.

The network changes are important as they involve:
* Increased operating hours, including up to 8 24 hour routes
* Increased frequency on most services particularly off-peak
* Integrated schedules between Spine routes along each Spine to deliver even headways between buses
* Revised timetables with every stop now having an individual timetable
* Many new orbital and local routes across the city with significant increase in frequency on existing ones

The orbitals and locals are key to the network, and they will start in the Autumn, and the integrated schedules will mean a much better service along the eight spine routes in both directions.

Busconnects means a different way of operating the bus service, which then with the extended hours and big number of additional orbital and local routes that
should finally provide more options for people to use the bus instead of the car.

The 90 minute travel ticket should launch alongside the next Spine (C) in the Autumn and that will mean cheaper travel for many - pay one fare instead of two.

Muahahaha · 25-06-2021 4:49pm

Did anyone see the RTE report on this yesterday? They reported that there was 70,000 submissions for the public consultation on BusConnects and that it was "controversial". What rubbish, just because a few hundred people were giving out about cutting down trees doesnt make it controversial. Huge numbers of people are in support of this yet the report gave the opposite impression.

Also I noticed the brand new buses have steel rails on their exterior at the upper deck front on the bus, left and right sides. Are these to protect the windows from tree branches or something or whats their purpose?

25-06-2021 4:51pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Did anyone see the RTE report on this yesterday? They reported that there was 70,000 submissions for the public consultation on BusConnects and that it was "controversial". What rubbish, just because a few hundred people were giving out about cutting down trees doesnt make it controversial. Huge numbers of people are in support of this yet the report gave the opposite impression.

Also I noticed the brand new buses have steel rails on their exterior at the upper deck front on the bus, left and right sides. Are these to protect the windows from tree branches or something or whats their purpose?

It didn’t really. It sent on to say that most people were supportive.

LXFlyer · 25-06-2021 5:01pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Did anyone see the RTE report on this yesterday? They reported that there was 70,000 submissions for the public consultation on BusConnects and that it was "controversial". What rubbish, just because a few hundred people were giving out about cutting down trees doesnt make it controversial. Huge numbers of people are in support of this yet the report gave the opposite impression.

Also I noticed the brand new buses have steel rails on their exterior at the upper deck front on the bus, left and right sides. Are these to protect the windows from tree branches or something or whats their purpose?

They’re talking about the proposed network - not the infrastructure in this context.

The original network proposal in 2018 did prove controversial in that it proposed removing bus services from certain estates and required a lot of people to have to change to get to/from the city. Indeed the then Taoiseach is quoted in the Dáil as having told Ann Graham that it would have to be changed as it was unacceptable.

That being said, it was a first draft. The next version of the network plan produced a year later was much much better, and just needed relatively small changes before the final plan was published in September 2020.

I think that most people are happy to see that plan put into operation.

The silver rails are branch deflectors - most of the existing fleet have them already albeit usually only on the near side.

yascaoimhin · 25-06-2021 10:48pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Indeed the then Taoiseach is quoted in the Dáil as having told Ann Graham that it would have to be changed as it was unacceptable..

It was stupid for him to say that, because it further the lie that the First Draft was ever intended to be final. The First Draft was specifically and intentionally designed to be bare bones and be wrong, because the designers knew from the state that they arent from the city and so can't have developed a network without the input of the people in the city.

"It will have to be changed"
"Yes, we know, we always intended to change it"

LXFlyer · 26-06-2021 5:56am

yascaoimhin wrote: »

It was stupid for him to say that, because it further the lie that the First Draft was ever intended to be final. The First Draft was specifically and intentionally designed to be bare bones and be wrong, because the designers knew from the state that they arent from the city and so can't have developed a network without the input of the people in the city.

"It will have to be changed"
"Yes, we know, we always intended to change it"

Well actually it wasn't really. He did pretty much sum up the general mood and reaction at the time to the requirement for many people to have to change, particularly onto already full DART or LUAS services (that particular requirement was forced on the planners by the NTA themselves which was never going to work), instead of their existing direct bus to/from the city.

It is fair to say that the NTA communications associated with the first draft was frankly atrocious, with a lot of general confusion about spines and routes, and was overly focussed on people who didn't use the bus to the detriment of those that already did.

Jarrett Walker in particular did not help matters by saying that the plan could only be changed by a relatively small measure if it was still to work, otherwise it would fall apart. That particular statement brushed a lot of people up the wrong way, and got their backs up unnecessarily.

He subsequently admitted that they got the communications strategy with the first draft badly wrong, and were on the back foot from the word go.

But thankfully, the resultant furore meant a lot of lessons were learned, and that the next draft was significantly changed from the first, with most direct links to/from the city reinstated by adding additional routes and re-routing existing ones. It was much better communicated too.

By and large the final plan satisfies most of the concerns and it's a much better network for the city than the original proposal.

AngryLips · 26-06-2021 7:49am

LXFlyer wrote: »

Jarrett Walker in particular did not help matters by saying that the plan could only be changed by a relatively small measure if it was still to work, otherwise it would fall apart. That particular statement brushed a lot of people up the wrong way, and got their backs up unnecessarily.

I honestly don't know where this guy earned his credentials with that initial proposal because it put ideology over practicality. And I'm no sure how suggesting a network with fewer direct services to the city centre would encourage modal shift. The benefits of his approach are a complete mystery

LXFlyer · 26-06-2021 8:32am

AngryLips wrote: »

I honestly don't know where this guy earned his credentials with that initial proposal because it put ideology over practicality. And I'm no sure how suggesting a network with fewer direct services to the city centre would encourage modal shift. The benefits of his approach are a complete mystery

Bear in mind that the NTA set a lot of the parameters at the outset within which he and his team were supposed to work - namely reducing the number of direct services going to/from the city, and encouraging more transfers to DART and LUAS services despite them being already full at peak times.

A lot of it stemmed from pre-conceived notions held by certain people within the NTA, and also them not necessarily believing what they were being told by Dublin Bus.

But hey, it was a basis to start with, and it produced the biggest reaction to any consultation held, and most of the bizarre elements of that first plan were changed. It was certainly a learning curve for some within the NTA.

AngryLips · 26-06-2021 12:01pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

But hey, it was a basis to start with, and it produced the biggest reaction to any consultation held, and most of the bizarre elements of that first plan were changed. It was certainly a learning curve for some within the NTA.

In a way, it was quite politically astute of them to put forward an extremely radical plan so that the compromise option would be seen as much more palatable in comparison, even though the version of BusConnects that we're getting is still an absolutely massive change.

Muahahaha · 26-06-2021 5:26pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

The silver rails are branch deflectors - most of the existing fleet have them already albeit usually only on the near side.

Are those rails the norm now with double deckers in the UK as well? And why the need to fit the fleet with them, is there an acceptance that they cant cut branches quick enough when they grow out in the summer or something?

Im wondering as well how long it will be before some young lad climbs up there to ride the bus and sticks the video up online

LXFlyer · 26-06-2021 5:40pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Are those rails the norm now with double deckers in the UK as well? And why the need to fit the fleet with them, is there an acceptance that they cant cut branches quick enough when they grow out in the summer or something?

Im wondering as well how long it will be before some young lad climbs up there to ride the bus and sticks the video up online

They are a standard feature on double deck buses just to protect the bodywork and front window from low hanging or outlying branches.

There will always be the odd branch not cut back - remember that only happens when the tree lopper bus goes out once a year.

As I said before, they are not a new feature. Go and look at any other double deck operated by Dublin Bus or Go Ahead.

They all have them already - mostly on the near side. In fact the EV Class have had them since delivered in 2007.

You just never noticed them before! :-)

Thelonious Monk · 26-06-2021 10:06pm

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1408848474842480640

I despair for this country sometimes. Sometimes we are going to just have to push projects through for the greater good, we keep getting held up by these poxy NIMBYs.

LXFlyer · 26-06-2021 11:08pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1408848474842480640

I despair for this country sometimes. Sometimes we are going to just have to push projects through for the greater good, we keep getting held up by these poxy NIMBYs.

Hopefully the planning application to ABP will set out exactly how those fears above about rat running will be dealt with through the traffic management plan.

donvito99 · 27-06-2021 7:46pm

BusDisconnects wrote: »

<snip> Mod:Post Deleted

Ha, loving this new angle.

donvito99 · 27-06-2021 8:02pm

BusDisconnects wrote: »

<snip>

<snip> Mod: Commenting on a deleted post.

donvito99 · 27-06-2021 8:10pm

BusDisconnects wrote: »

<snip>

I smell a re-reg.

specialbyte · 29-06-2021 9:47pm

I suspect many of you here will find this presentation from a former NTA project manager on the BusConnects Core Bus Corridors. It's mostly focused on how they are designing the junctions to maximise the number of people they can move through them versus the number of vehicles. There's lots of other small tidbits of information in there too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odNl5gRwbxo

densification · 29-06-2021 10:47pm

specialbyte wrote: »

I suspect many of you here will find this presentation from a former NTA project manager on the BusConnects Core Bus Corridors. It's mostly focused on how they are designing the junctions to maximise the number of people they can move through them versus the number of vehicles. There's lots of other small tidbits of information in there too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odNl5gRwbxo

I can’t believe they’re going to put traffic lights at a bus stop island. So completely unnecessary. Maybe they’re struggling to use the €1m per day on cycling.

CatInABox · 29-06-2021 10:51pm

densification wrote: »

I can’t believe they’re going to put traffic lights at a bus stop island. So completely unnecessary. Maybe they’re struggling to use the €1m per day on cycling.

What's hilarious is how they show a junction that's a total death trap, and then show their own design, eschewing all international design knowledge, and be like "here's our great new junction", while it's still mostly a death trap.

Really, hilarious...

densification · 29-06-2021 11:02pm

CatInABox wrote: »

What's hilarious is how they show a junction that's a total death trap, and then show their own design, eschewing all international design knowledge, and be like "here's our great new junction", while it's still mostly a death trap.

Really, hilarious...

BusConnects round 1: terrible junctions with death strip cycle lanes

Round 2: some excellent Dutch style segregated junctions

Round 3: half arsed Dutch junctions with left hook conflict and no ‘free’ left turns

CatInABox · 30-06-2021 9:08am

densification wrote: »

BusConnects round 1: terrible junctions with death strip cycle lanes

Round 2: some excellent Dutch style segregated junctions

Round 3: half arsed Dutch junctions with left hook conflict and no ‘free’ left turns

The worst thing is that they're not saying, "oh, this was a compromise that we were forced into, and we'd love to do better", they seem to be saying "yes, we're great for coming up with these ideas, and other countries will soon look to us".

Bizarre how out of touch with reality they are.

yascaoimhin · 30-06-2021 9:44am

densification wrote: »

I can’t believe they’re going to put traffic lights at a bus stop island. So completely unnecessary. Maybe they’re struggling to use the €1m per day on cycling.

Disability groups are presenting the perceived threat to their members by bikes instead of the measured actual threat
Evidence shows from London, that all that is needed is zebras and bikes slow down, they tested and as time went on people with disabilities reported a reduced perception of threat.

densification · 30-06-2021 10:06am

yascaoimhin wrote: »

Disability groups are presenting the perceived threat to their members by bikes instead of the measured actual threat
Evidence shows from London, that all that is needed is zebras and bikes slow down, they tested and as time went on people with disabilities reported a reduced perception of threat.

There already are a couple of island bus stops on S2S, the N11 etc without any issues. They are a compromise for sure but they’re better than cyclists nearly getting hit by buses.

Disability groups were also against Dutch style junctions where bikes cross paths without signals. As a result, this design was abandoned by the NTA and now we have a significantly less safe design with left hooks.

There are a few individuals in the disability community who unfortunately hate cycling and active travel as they see it as ableist.

Their complaints to the NTA etc have increased the cost and complexity of cycle lanes while making them less safe for cyclists. Extremely frustrating.

Dublin - BusConnects

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