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Dublin - BusConnects

marno21

Two weeks after a similar publication for Metrolink, the NTA have published a tender for design of 16 Core Bus Corridors for the BusConnect project:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=127159&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

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BonnieSituation

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Then why even bother with an icon? :rolleyes:
Bad design is bad design.

I agree that putting bus on the front of the icon is somewhat tautologous, but let's be frank here. It's clearly a bloody bus.

It's not like it's an icon on a wall in an office building with no context.

It's an icon, atop a pole at the side of a street. What else might it represent?

No amount of acting all Helen Lovejoy-esque about the blind leper in a wheel chair who can only speak Arabic on Tuesday mornings being unable to distinguish between a bus and a train is gonna change the fact that, it's a bloody bus.

There's more to criticise than that icon and yascaoimhin's idea of a more iconic flag is worthy of further discussion as well.

But let's have some perspective.

Thelonious Monk

cgcsb wrote: »

2023 to 2024 but could still be cancelled by then. There'll be nothing like that on the h spine anyway.

That's when the real fun will start, the Mannix's of this world wont let CPOing etc happen without a long drawn out fight.

cgcsb

Are they STILL making the Irish version of place names italic? Why on gods green earth? Does this not annoy the life out of people? Why italic? Just do the whole thing in italic so.

GT89

LXFlyer wrote: »

Yes it does - but will that entice people out of their cars and onto buses, especially for orbital journeys?

Leave the car behind for a bus that’ll trundle along and possibly wait at certain locations to catch up on the schedule.

It’s a very fine balancing act getting the running times right.

Thing is though buses running way ahead of schedule and leaving early isn't going to entice people out of their cars either. People want a service they can depend on. I haven't really noticed go ahead buses going a whole lot slower than DB routes and I've been using them since they started operations in 2018.

Few times I've seen them pulling stopping at bus stops opening and closing the doors with no one getting on or off but I haven't noticed them trundling along. During normal circumstances at least.

[Deleted User]

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I agree that putting bus on the front of the icon is somewhat tautologous, but let's be frank here. It's clearly a bloody bus.

It's not like it's an icon on a wall in an office building with no context.

It's an icon, atop a pole at the side of a street. What else might it represent?

No amount of acting all Helen Lovejoy-esque about the blind leper in a wheel chair who can only speak Arabic on Tuesday morning's being unable to distinguish between a bus and a train is gonna change the fact that, it's a bloody bus.

There's more to criticise than that icon and yascaoimhin's idea of a more iconic flag is worthy of further discussion as well.

But let's have some perspective.

They're spending millions (tens of millions?) on the redesign - it's valid to criticise elements of such.

Stop ranting and make a better argument than going on increasingly weird segues about arabic, simpsons characters and whether someone is blind or not.

BonnieSituation

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They're spending millions (tens of millions?) on the redesign - it's valid to criticise elements of such.

Stop ranting and make a better argument than going on increasingly weird segues about arabic, simpsons characters and whether someone is blind or not.

Me? Segues? Surely not.

GT89 wrote: »

True but a native Chinese or Arabic speaker might not realise that

Methinks you might have missed wee GT89's contribution, since deleted, which I was parodying.

Perhaps wind your own neck in yourself before you go around "ranting" at others especially seeing as your contributions on the last couple of pages have been you jumping in with two feet. A wee bit rich.

[Deleted User]

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Methinks you might have missed wee GT89's contribution, since deleted, which I was parodying.

So you understand neither parody nor hyperbole, got it.

Perhaps wind your own neck in yourself before you go around "ranting" at others especially seeing as your contributions on the last couple of pages have been you jumping in with two feet. A wee bit rich.

You also clearly don't understand what a rant is (here's a hint, two sentences do not make one)

You posted that having a useful visual icon that made it clear and obvious what the stop is for was unnecessary because it was self-evidently a bus stop.

I posted the obvious question as to why even bother with an icon if that's true, and that bad design is bad design (regardless of functionality).

You then wrote 6 sentences, none of which addressed my two simple points while having a wee auld grandstanding rant.

P.S. As a bonus, you also don't understand what the word tautologous means. It refers to either logical arguments or written sentences, the word you were looking for was redundant. Perhaps you should try to write clearer rather than 'cleverer'? It might also help you make an actual response to what someone posts rather than making the thread about you.

Pete_Cavan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You posted that having a useful visual icon that made it clear and obvious what the stop is for was unnecessary because it was self-evidently a bus stop.

That's not accurate. I'm pretty sure his/her point was that whether the icon is a single or double decker bus is irrelevant, as the whole context will make it clear it is a bus stop. I think it's a fair point, whether it's a single or double decker bus on the icon isn't going to make it any more or less recognisable as a bus stop.

BonnieSituation

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you understand neither parody nor hyperbole, got it.

You also clearly don't understand what a rant is (here's a hint, two sentences do not make one)

You posted that having a useful visual icon that made it clear and obvious what the stop is for was unnecessary because it was self-evidently a bus stop.

I posted the obvious question as to why even bother with an icon if that's true, and that bad design is bad design (regardless of functionality).

You then wrote 6 sentences, none of which addressed my two simple points while having a wee auld grandstanding rant.

P.S. As a bonus, you also don't understand what the word tautologous means. It refers to either logical arguments or written sentences, the word you were looking for was redundant. Perhaps you should try to write clearer rather than 'cleverer'? It might also help you make an actual response to what someone posts rather than making the thread about you.

Wow.

Look at this guy.

Eh, thanks for demonstrating to me what a rant actually is.

Where would we be without your input I wonder?

Probably standing with our Chinese and Arabic speaking friends at the bus stop waiting on a train no doubt.

BonnieSituation

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

That's not accurate. I'm pretty sure his/her point was that whether the icon is a single or double decker bus is irrelevant, as the whole context will make it clear it is a bus stop. I think it's a fair point, whether it's a single or double decker bus on the icon isn't going to make it any more or less recognisable as a bus stop.

I thought my point was pretty damn clear. But then again, some people all too readily let the red mist descend, for God knows what reason.

In all my years on boards and in my professional career I don't think I've ever seen such "passion" for an icon atop a bus stop.

If they put as much effort into their public submissions as they do on here losing the rag, imagine what we could all achieve. Such misplaced ranty energy. Shame.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can you stop the bickering.

This is about Busconnects. The redesign and rebranding is not for here. Start a new thread if you think it is worth it.

CatInABox

Only tangentially related to BusConnects at this stage, but the news about Deirdre Conroy, opponent to all things BusConnects, has had me in stitches today. Really made my day.

https://twitter.com/wereontheditch/status/1400027401921482763

AlmightyCushion

CatInABox wrote: »

Only tangentially related to BusConnects at this stage, but the news about Deirdre Conroy, opponent to all things BusConnects, has had me in stitches today. Really made my day.

https://twitter.com/wereontheditch/status/1400027401921482763

It reads like a parody story. She only thought about renting the cupboard out to a student because she had one of her kids in it and they were complaining about it.

LXFlyer

The details of the first round of the new bus network have been published - the H Spine which will replace routes 29a, 31/a/b and 32 along the Howth Road Corridor, to be implemented on Sunday 27th June.

Full details including timetables from termini are here:
https://www.transportforireland.ie/h-spine/

A brochure has been published which shows the routes:
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/H-Spine-Booklet-ONLINE-English-11.06.21.pdf

This is a relatively straightforward set of changes from a customer perspective, as it involves the 29a becoming the H1, the 32 becoming the H2, and the 31 becoming the H3. The main changes are an increase in services, and that these routes will operate co-ordinated schedules to deliver a 7-8 minute frequency for much of the day along the Howth Road between City Centre and All Saints Road in Raheny.

These routes will retain the same routing as currently taken, with the exception of the H2 which will operate via Carrickhill Road and Wendell Avenue in Portmarnock, rather than directly along Strand Road.

An additional route H9 will operate some morning peak hour extras inbound only from All Saints Road to the city centre.

A new hourly radial route, route 6, will replace the 31a and 31b and this will operate along the Howth Road to Raheny before deviating along Watermill Road and James Larkin Road, before continuing to Sutton Cross, and then operating first via Strand Road and Shielmartin Road before continuing around Howth Head via the Summit to terminate at Howth Railway Station.

Services will have longer operating hours along the corridor (first outbound buses at 05:00 (Mon/Fri), 06:00 (Sat) and 07:00 (Sun), with last departure from city centre at midnight (Mon-Fri and Sunday), and 00:15 on Saturdays.

Overall there will be about 40 extra departures on the corridor in each direction Monday-Friday, and over 50 extra in each direction on Saturday and on Sunday.

The only other change for now is that the 102 and 32x will have a small routing change in Portmarnock where they will route directly along Strand Road rather than via Wendell Avenue and Carrickbrack Road.

This spine really is a test-bed for the operator (Dublin Bus in this case) before we get into much more complicated changes such as the C Spine later this year.

No fare changes are happening with this round of changes - that will happen with the C Spine (including the 90 minute ticket I expect) as it will involve quite a few new local and orbital bus routes which will result in more connections being made.

Overall, the changes are positive, with longer operating hours and increased service levels throughout the day across the corridor.

The only potential downside that I see, is that the number of the departures from Baldoyle on the H1 will be one less between 07:30 and 08:30 compared with the 29a, and simlilarly the H2 has one less departure from Malahide during that period (there will be extras from further in at All Saints Road).

yascaoimhin

Hearing now that the planning application for the Core Bus Corridors has been pushed back to September

cgcsb

yascaoimhin wrote: »

Hearing now that the planning application for the Core Bus Corridors has been pushed back to September

Expected as much, in fact expected a 2022 application

Peregrine

6 in September, 6 in October. That's final.

cgcsb

Peregrine wrote: »

6 in September, 6 in October. That's final.

and the other 4?

Peregrine

cgcsb wrote: »

and the other 4?

There will only be 12 planning applications. A few are being grouped together. Like Clondalkin-Drimnagh and Greenhills-City Centre.

If one gets held up, the other 11 can still go ahead.

cgcsb

I'd be delighted if we could see some work start at the end of 2022. In my view the village bus gates like at Rathmines and Stoneybatter are the most important parts. I would have preferred to see them put in during lockdown to prevent a return to gridlock.

All seems to have gone quiet on the enforement front. I seem to remember a year ago Ann Graham was going to make a statement 'imminently' on the camera enforcement issue, without which the whole project will fail.

Chris_5339762

https://www.thejournal.ie/busconects-plans-5476159-Jun2021/

TheJournal (Yes, I know) saying that H Spine goes live this Sunday.

Here are some comments, for posterity.

Nothing agreed with drivers to change of terms and conditions. Strike action Looming

Do it slowly and in phases to avoid people copping on to the fact this is a terrible idea. Very cynical and sly

wearing a Glasgow shirt would think you have little knowledge of Dublin Bus routes and its employees conditions, best to comment on your own city’s Bus service and leave this one to us Dubs.

The wonderous DublinLive are reporting it too, without their usual extreme hysteria.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/what-bus-connects-how-change-20890010

odyssey06

Is the no6 actually going along watermill road and saint lawrence road or is that just the name of the stop on the howth road?

LXFlyer

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is the no6 actually going along watermill road and saint lawrence road or is that just the name of the stop on the howth road?

The descriptions on the route diagrams are stop names.

The 6 will operate along the Howth Road, Watermill Road and James Larkin Road.

The route map is on this page:

https://www.transportforireland.ie/h-spine/

crazy 88

The fanfare around BusConnects would make you think buses are being introduced to Dublin for the first time to replace horse and carts

Shouldn't a bus (or any public transport) system be operated in such a way that it improves and evolves over time as part of its remit and day to day operations. Are Dublin Bus/the NTA basically acknowledging they've operated a static transport system with practically no evolution to justify a large investment? And that cycle will be repeated in busconnects 2,3 etc.

AngryLips

I'm glad to see that the causeway crossing to bull Island is finally going to be served by public transport with the new number 6 service. The lack of a bus service at this location was a serious oversight until now for one of Dublin's best amenities

JohnnyChimpo

crazy 88 wrote: »

Shouldn't a bus (or any public transport) system be operated in such a way that it improves and evolves over time as part of its remit and day to day operations. Are Dublin Bus/the NTA basically acknowledging they've operated a static transport system with practically no evolution to justify a large investment? And that cycle will be repeated in busconnects 2,3 etc.

Systems can occasionally have large overhauls, which kinda necessitate some public engagement. Prior to this routes were added and altered continuously for decades with no "fanfare" - not exactly sure what you're getting exercised about here

crazy 88

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

not exactly sure what you're getting exercised about here

It's being blown out of proportion as the solution to Dublin's transport woes. It certainly won't solve it and I think it will barely make a dent.

Same as the fanfare for dart+. Electrifying a few measly KMs and adding no new stations while some countries have their entire network electrified.

LXFlyer

crazy 88 wrote: »

It's being blown out of proportion as the solution to Dublin's transport woes. It certainly won't solve it and I think it will barely make a dent.

Same as the fanfare for dart+. Electrifying a few measly KMs and adding no new stations while some countries have their entire network electrified.

Sorry, respectfully I would suggest that you're wrong about that.

The network changes are important as they involve:
* Increased operating hours, including up to 8 24 hour routes
* Increased frequency on most services particularly off-peak
* Integrated schedules between Spine routes along each Spine to deliver even headways between buses
* Revised timetables with every stop now having an individual timetable
* Many new orbital and local routes across the city with significant increase in frequency on existing ones

The orbitals and locals are key to the network, and they will start in the Autumn, and the integrated schedules will mean a much better service along the eight spine routes in both directions.

Busconnects means a different way of operating the bus service, which then with the extended hours and big number of additional orbital and local routes that
should finally provide more options for people to use the bus instead of the car.

The 90 minute travel ticket should launch alongside the next Spine (C) in the Autumn and that will mean cheaper travel for many - pay one fare instead of two.

Muahahaha

Did anyone see the RTE report on this yesterday? They reported that there was 70,000 submissions for the public consultation on BusConnects and that it was "controversial". What rubbish, just because a few hundred people were giving out about cutting down trees doesnt make it controversial. Huge numbers of people are in support of this yet the report gave the opposite impression.

Also I noticed the brand new buses have steel rails on their exterior at the upper deck front on the bus, left and right sides. Are these to protect the windows from tree branches or something or whats their purpose?

[Deleted User]

Muahahaha wrote: »

Did anyone see the RTE report on this yesterday? They reported that there was 70,000 submissions for the public consultation on BusConnects and that it was "controversial". What rubbish, just because a few hundred people were giving out about cutting down trees doesnt make it controversial. Huge numbers of people are in support of this yet the report gave the opposite impression.

Also I noticed the brand new buses have steel rails on their exterior at the upper deck front on the bus, left and right sides. Are these to protect the windows from tree branches or something or whats their purpose?

It didn’t really. It sent on to say that most people were supportive.