Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

connemara man · 12-10-2019 8:18pm #1

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

Donnielighto · 12-10-2019 8:20pm

First.

History to repeat, Mayo lose All Irelands, don't invade Russia in the winter, Ireland out at the quarters.

Shefwedfan · 12-10-2019 8:20pm

I think we should start with some positivity

Ireland are going to win the WC

joseywhales · 12-10-2019 8:24pm

I think we should start with some realism, Ireland are going to put their best 2019 performance into the 1/4 final and that might be enough

Shefwedfan · 12-10-2019 8:27pm

joseywhales wrote: »

I think we should start with some realism, Ireland are going to put their best 2019 performance into the 1/4 final and that might be enough

Even if we won the 6 nations we would still have needed our best performance of the year to get into the semi

ScrubsfanChris · 12-10-2019 8:28pm

We'll do it lads............wahey!

connachta · 12-10-2019 8:30pm

Connacht colony will break through in 2020 (Tom Farrell, Thornbury, Blade)

Shefwedfan · 12-10-2019 8:31pm

connachta wrote: »

Connacht colony will break through in 2020 (Tom Farrell, Thornbury, Blade)

They bringing along TOH as well :-)

connachta · 12-10-2019 8:35pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They bringing along TOH as well :-)

You might be surprised to see S.Fitzgerald soon enough

Clegg · 12-10-2019 9:14pm

connachta wrote: »

Connacht colony will break through in 2020 (Tom Farrell, Thornbury, Blade)

Maybe Thornbury and Blade will get capped. We've a need for more quality locks and scrum halves. But I don't see Tom Farrell getting a look in tbh. Ringrose is miles better and the other Farrell has done a decent job when given the opportunity.

Wegians89 · 12-10-2019 9:16pm

Clegg wrote: »

Maybe Thornbury and Blade will get capped. We've a need for more quality locks and scrum halfs. But I don't see Tom Farrell getting a look in tbh. Ringrose is miles better and the other Farrell has done a decent job when given the opportunity.

Tend to agree with this. Doesn’t help that Tom Farrell can’t get a start for Connacht at the minute.

Squidgy Black · 12-10-2019 9:20pm

Start of a new RWC cycle and a new coach, I reckon we could see a lot of new caps over the next two summer tours and autumn internationals. Short list of potentials who could get a run-out in my opinion would probably be:

Jameson Gibson Park
Caolan Blade
Max Deegan
James Lowe
Tom Farrell
Shane Daly
Rob Lyttle

Wegians89 · 12-10-2019 9:21pm

After watching the group games I feel there’s something missing with the Ryan, Henderson pairing and I don’t really know what it is. They’re both individually brilliant and dynamic players and statistically scrum and line outs have gone well but there’s just something missing. Ryan is nailed on starter and future captain

Wegians89 · 12-10-2019 9:26pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Start of a new RWC cycle and a new coach, I reckon we could see a lot of new caps over the next two summer tours and autumn internationals. Short list of potentials who could get a run-out in my opinion would probably be:

Jameson Gibson Park
Caolan Blade
Max Deegan
James Lowe
Tom Farrell
Shane Daly
Rob Lyttle

I’m not against project players or anything but I feel they have to be better than current options and don’t really see JGP as much better than Marmion, blade, cooney or McGrath. You’d nearly just be capping him for the sake of making sure he doesn’t leave.

Lowry and Eric o Sullivan based on last season would be up there too. Ronan kelleher could be a real bolter too if he keeps up his form.

Squidgy Black · 12-10-2019 9:26pm

Wegians89 wrote: »

After watching the group games I feel there’s something missing with the Ryan, Henderson pairing and I don’t really know what it is. They’re both individually brilliant and dynamic players and statistically scrum and line outs have gone well but there’s just something missing. Ryan is nailed on starter and future captain

Both similar players I think, they don't really offer a balance like Toner does when he pairs up with either of them. I think it's a case that Toner usually takes more of the grunt securing the ruck and going with the carrier, whereas the loosehead lock then carries a bit more and jackals.

Squidgy Black · 12-10-2019 9:29pm

Wegians89 wrote: »

I’m not against project players or anything but I feel they have to be better than current options and don’t really see JGP as much better than Marmion, blade, cooney or McGrath. You’d nearly just be capping him for the sake of making sure he doesn’t leave.

Lowry and Eric o Sullivan based on last season would be up there too. Ronan kelleher could be a real bolter too if he keeps up his form.

I think he offers a different skillset to the existing scrumhalves we have, has the ability to whip a ball out wide with little wind up and as a result tends to drift and draw in defenders. But I agree, at the moment he's not really a standout as such but depends on what Andy Farrell is looking at game plan wise.

I think Lowry's just that little bit too green for international level at the moment and a bit small, but definitely has potential in the future. EOS might suffer a bit with McGrath being in the mix up in Ulster now compared to last season.

DGRulz · 12-10-2019 9:47pm

Some questions to ask going forwards into this new era:

1) Who do people see taking over the reins as captain?

2) What jerseys are up for grabs?

3) Who's likely to go abroad in the next cycle?

4) Is James Ryan actually the second coming of Christ?

Discuss.

Shefwedfan · 12-10-2019 9:51pm

DGRulz wrote: »

Some questions to ask going forwards into this new era:

1) Who do people see taking over the reins as captain?

2) What jerseys are up for grabs?

3) Is James Ryan actually the second coming of Christ?

Discuss.

1) Ryan, in one of the game already I think POM was captain and Ryan was telling the kicker to go for the posts

2) 2, 6 if we say POM is incumbant, 14 Earls due to age, 15 Kearney due to age....

3) No......Christ was never real in first place :eek:

Clegg · 12-10-2019 9:52pm

Sexton is taking the captaincy post Best. He has a contract until 2021 and he's still our best 10 by a mile. The only thing that might work against him is injury.

WRT positions up for grabs, I can see Earls and Kearney cycled out of the team. Larmour is putting his hand up at full back and Conway will push hard too. James Lowe will be eligible and will absolutely be picked if he declares for Ireland. He has a skillset that no other outside back in the country possesses.

DGRulz · 12-10-2019 9:58pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

3) No......Christ was never real in first place :eek:

So you're saying he's the one true Messiah? Gotcha

connachta · 12-10-2019 10:01pm

DGRulz wrote: »

Some questions to ask going forwards into this new era:

1) Who do people see taking over the reins as captain?

VDF

2) What jerseys are up for grabs?

Healy, Sexton, Kearney, Earls, POM, Murphy, Cronin, McGrath, Aki, Best, Farrell I'd say. The 20 others will be in RWC 2023 IMO

Among the "newcomers" I'd have Shane Daly, Blade, Addison, D.Leavy, Robb, Treadwell, Dooley ...

3) Who's likely to go abroad in the next cycle?

Handerson maybe..

4) Is James Ryan actually the second coming of Christ?

he's absolutely brillant, very hard to find a criticism somewhere

Discuss.

See in 3 and a half years!

Sanjuro · 12-10-2019 10:02pm

I presume Ireland will be looking for new scrum and attack coaches. Any idea where they may come from?

Squidgy Black · 12-10-2019 10:03pm

Sanjuro wrote: »

I presume Ireland will be looking for new scrum and attack coaches. Any idea where they may come from?

John Fogarty is taking over from Greg Feek, Mike Catt being brought in as attack coach

phog · 12-10-2019 10:04pm

Clegg wrote: »

Sexton is taking the captaincy post Best. He has a contract until 2021 and he's still our best 10 by a mile. The only thing that might work against him is injury.

WRT positions up for grabs, I can see Earls and Kearney cycled out of the team. Larmour is putting his hand up at full back and Conway will push hard too. James Lowe will be eligible and will absolutely be picked if he declares for Ireland. He has a skillset that no other outside back in the country possesses.

That being slapping guys on the arse :pac: :pac: :pac:

Sanjuro · 12-10-2019 10:06pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

John Fogarty is taking over from Greg Feek, Mike Catt being brought in as attack coach

Well I certainly missed that! Thanks for the update.

12-10-2019 10:10pm

phog wrote: »

That being putting guys on their arse :pac: :pac: :pac:

Yes

All_in_Flynn · 12-10-2019 10:13pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

John Fogarty is taking over from Greg Feek, Mike Catt being brought in as attack coach

Anyone know what Catt’s reputation is like? He meant to be highly regarded?

Clegg · 12-10-2019 10:14pm

phog wrote: »

That being slapping guys on the arse :pac: :pac: :pac:

He loves a bit of the rough does James.

Being serious though, there's no back three player in Ireland with Lowe's offloading ability. He threw an outrageous one just yesterday against Edinburgh. He's also an excellent line runner and because of his size he always makes those few extra metres in traffic. There's a place for him in the squad if he wants it.

Shefwedfan · 12-10-2019 10:15pm

DGRulz wrote: »

So you're saying he's the one true Messiah? Gotcha

Exactly

Squidgy Black · 12-10-2019 10:20pm

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Anyone know what Catt’s reputation is like? He meant to be highly regarded?

Was Backs coach under Lancaster from 2012-2015 for England, and then was attack coach for Italy. When he was announced people weren't exactly jumping up and down with joy, but he has a decent bit of international experience and has done some decent work with Italy.

On another note, the entire coaching ticket from the England 2015 RWC is now working in Ireland (Lancaster, Farrell, Catt and Rowantree).

ClanofLams · 12-10-2019 10:33pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I think he offers a different skillset to the existing scrumhalves we have, has the ability to whip a ball out wide with little wind up and as a result tends to drift and draw in defenders. But I agree, at the moment he's not really a standout as such but depends on what Andy Farrell is looking at game plan wise.

I think Lowry's just that little bit too green for international level at the moment and a bit small, but definitely has potential in the future. EOS might suffer a bit with McGrath being in the mix up in Ulster now compared to last season.

Lowry should have been moved to 9 a few years ago I think. Quality player but really difficult to see him being physically capable of playing at 10 or 15 at test level, even long term for Ulster it’s gonna be tough.

joseywhales · 12-10-2019 10:40pm

Wait are we complaining that we have a former world player if the year in the most pivotal position on the field?

Squidgy Black · 12-10-2019 10:43pm

joseywhales wrote: »

Wait are we complaining that we have a former world player if the year in the most pivotal position on the field?

....... no?

joseywhales · 12-10-2019 10:44pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

Wait are we complaining that we have a former world player if the year in the most pivotal position on the field?

....... no?

Sorry wrong thread, someone was complaining that he is made of glass

stephen_n · 12-10-2019 11:49pm

Clegg wrote: »

He loves a bit of the rough does James.

Being serious though, there's no back three player in Ireland with Lowe's offloading ability. He threw an outrageous one just yesterday against Edinburgh. He's also an excellent line runner and because of his size he always makes those few extra metres in traffic. There's a place for him in the squad if he wants it.

Can’t wait to see Luke Fitzgerald’s head explode if this happens.

Blackheath · 13-10-2019 12:09am

Clegg wrote: »

Maybe Thornbury and Blade will get capped. We've a need for more quality locks and scrum halves. But I don't see Tom Farrell getting a look in tbh. Ringrose is miles better and the other Farrell has done a decent job when given the opportunity.

Who will be the next capped in each position?

Uriel. · 13-10-2019 12:37am

Wegians89 wrote: »

I’m not against project players or anything but I feel they have to be better than current options and don’t really see JGP as much better than Marmion, blade, cooney or McGrath. You’d nearly just be capping him for the sake of making sure he doesn’t leave.

Lowry and Eric o Sullivan based on last season would be up there too. Ronan kelleher could be a real bolter too if he keeps up his form.

I don't agree. I think JGP has the potential to surpass all of them, particularly by offering something different. He's been on great form in the early rounds of the Pro14 and I think the whole 3 NIQs issue from the last couple of seasons has possibly held him back a bit with rotation amongst those players. I think we'll see JGP get more game time this year, in a more consistent way and I think he has the potential to crack on. I'd expect to see him get an Irish call up in the 12 months following the World Cup.

padser · 13-10-2019 4:20am

joseywhales wrote: »

Sorry wrong thread, someone was complaining that he is made of glass

Given injury rate for out halves in general, far from being made of glass,, I think Sexton has a surprising ability to get onto the pitch, in particular for big games.

Because he is so crucial to us, every niggle or rumour is talked about at length, but I think his record of getting games is actually fine (definitely no worse than average)

ClanofLams · 13-10-2019 7:34am

Ireland have flown in solicitor to represent Bundee Aki at Monday’s hearing Murray Kinsey’s reports. Doubt it will do much good but worth a go I guess.

realhorrorshow · 13-10-2019 7:42am

Blackheath wrote: »

Who will be the next capped in each position?

Lhp: no clear standout, Eric O’Sullivan maybe
Hooker: Ronan Kelleher
Thp: no clear standout for me
Lock: any of Thornbury, Molony, or Wycherly, with loads more talent breathing down their necks
Back row: whichever of Deegan or Doris starts the European games for Leinster
Scrum half: Blade or JGP
Out half: can’t see any new outhalves being capped for a while, if there was an injury crisis you’d imagine Billy Burns would be next up
Centre: hard to call, loads of talent around but it depends who can nail down game time at provincial level
Wing: Baloucoune and Lyttle would both be candidates for me
Fullback: probably Haley by default

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 7:44am

For all the Connacht nominations, they are in Heineken Cup this season and let see how they perform before talking about capping them.

I think everyone can agree Carty has struggled with the step up to international level and we want all our internationals playing heneiken rugby regular....great for Connacht as well....please note before everyone goes off on one not having a go at Carty

Players I think, JGP might jump everyone. I don’t think Marmion is up to it, are they better concentrating on blade?

Also Balacoune from Ulster should be brought in, wing options of Stockdale, Balacoune and Lowe will be competitive.

Larmour is the replacement 15 but yet to see who his back up will be?

padser · 13-10-2019 8:29am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For all the Connacht nominations, they are in Heineken Cup this season and let see how they perform before talking about capping them.

I think everyone can agree Carty has struggled with the step up to international level and we want all our internationals playing heneiken rugby regular....great for Connacht as well....please note before everyone goes off on one not having a go at Carty

Players I think, JGP might jump everyone. I don’t think Marmion is up to it, are they better concentrating on blade?

Also Balacoune from Ulster should be brought in, wing options of Stockdale, Balacoune and Lowe will be competitive.

Larmour is the replacement 15 but yet to see who his back up will be?

Conway I'd imagine will be his back up

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 9:27am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For all the Connacht nominations, they are in Heineken Cup this season and let see how they perform before talking about capping them.

I think everyone can agree Carty has struggled with the step up to international level and we want all our internationals playing heneiken rugby regular....great for Connacht as well....please note before everyone goes off on one not having a go at Carty

Players I think, JGP might jump everyone. I don’t think Marmion is up to it, are they better concentrating on blade?

Also Balacoune from Ulster should be brought in, wing options of Stockdale, Balacoune and Lowe will be competitive.

Larmour is the replacement 15 but yet to see who his back up will be?

Marmion a guy who’s started in wins again the all blacks and England not up to it, yeah okay.

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 9:33am

Blackheath wrote: »

Who will be the next capped in each position?

1. O’Sullivan
2. Kelleher
3. Knox
4. Wycherley
5. Thornbury
6. Deegan
7. Boyle
8. Doris
9. Blade
10. Harry Byrne
11. Shane Daly
12. Goggin
13. Farrell
14. Balacoune
15. Stephan Fitzgerald

16. DTM
17. Milne
18. O’Toole
19. Baird
20. Penny
21. Casey
22. C. Fitzgerald/ Lowry
23. Keenan/ Turner / Lyttle

Most of these might get one or two caps, particularly from 11-15. I’m sure I’m missing some obvious uncapped players too. Knox is one I haven’t seen but has a bit of hype and could see him getting capped to “claim him”.

I’d also like to say I’m really looking forward to the potential battle at hooker between kelleher, DTM and potentially McElroy it he breaks back into the provincial set up. For years best was the only decent option but there could be huge depth coming through in a couple of years.

ClanofLams · 13-10-2019 9:45am

Wegians89 wrote: »

Marmion a guy who’s started in wins again the all blacks and England not up to it, yeah okay.

And champions cup standard is important so Gibson Park, with a total of one champions cup start to his name, will go ahead of him. Sound logic.

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 9:47am

ClanofLams wrote: »

And champions cup standard is important so Gibson Park, with a total of one champions cup start to his name, will go ahead of him. Sound logic.

Think people forget Connacht and marmion/carty have played and won in the champions cup

The Rape of Lucretia · 13-10-2019 10:00am

Gibbo is limited. I can't see him being much of a factor.

Former Former · 13-10-2019 10:04am

Wegians89 wrote: »

Marmion a guy who’s started in wins again the all blacks and England not up to it, yeah okay.

Depends what the question is.

If we're talking successor to Murray as first-choice in two or three years, then I don't think either McGrath or Marmion is up to it. Both are more than capable but not really what we need IMO.

I think our next long term solutions at hooker, scrum half and maybe out half are yet to be capped.

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 10:07am

Former Former wrote: »

Depends what the question is.

If we're talking successor to Murray as first-choice in two or three years, then I don't think either McGrath or Marmion is up to it. Both are more than capable but not really what we need IMO.

I think our next long term solutions at hooker, scrum half and maybe out half are yet to be capped.

When Murray and Sexton are phased out the game plan will have to change. They’re both genuine world class players and not many players will ever reach their levels. Think Casey is probably the one long term at 9 but with a change in game plan I can see no reason why marmion, cooney or blade couldn’t be test standard starters but probably not world class

ClanofLams · 13-10-2019 10:08am

What a shock to see Stephen Jones of the Sunday Times fabricating stuff again.

His claim, aside from being baseless, is idiotic too, why on earth would irfu not want everything possible done for Scotland Japan to go ahead? There’s only upside from an Irish perspective

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2019/10/13/irfu-statement-re-false-claims-made-by-sunday-times/

Niallof9 · 13-10-2019 10:17am

ClanofLams wrote: »

What a shock to see Stephen Jones of the Sunday Times fabricating stuff again.

His claim, aside from being baseless, is idiotic too, why on earth would irfu not want everything possible done for Scotland Japan to go ahead? There’s only upside from an Irish perspective

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2019/10/13/irfu-statement-re-false-claims-made-by-sunday-times/

It’s joes big ruse. We really want the All Blacks and have been fooling everyone

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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