Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Village87 wrote: »

The Shefflin clan not happy with Evan being omitted i hear. DJ getting the blame as Micheal Carey is in direct competition with Evan Shefflin. I do follow club hurling as much as anyone else and Evan is much the better hurler and much more potential. Not as fit as he could be but that is something that can be worked on. Micheal Carey also got way more chances and has been very average. Disgrace what is going on.

I have to agree about Evan Shefflin, was outstanding for Ballyhale and seemed to get no time for KK seniors and then the chop.
Now I will say there is a massive step up in intensity from club training to inter county hurling training, but I still find it hard to believe he would be so unfit that he wouldn’t be able to last at the training sessions.

He was bombing up the field for Ballyhale scoring points regularly at club all ireland series.

Grats wrote: »

Did some posters not see Evan Shefflin's performances in the latter stages of the Fitzgibbon? He looked knackered and replaced after 15 minutes in the Final. It was said at the time that he was carrying an injury. I would therefore suggest that he, and Shane Walsh who also carried an injury in the club campaign, were advised to go away and give the injuries time to mend. Somebody also hinted that James Maher is sick.

Cody never divulges the reasons for players leaving the panel and in the main that's to their benefit.

In fairness to Evan he was marking the best hurler in the Fitzgibbon cup the Kerry lad Shane Conway.

Surely s few months of inter county hurling would of got his fitness sorted.

Anyway who am I to question Cody, he has seen and done it all and can back it up.

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Their arguments aren't great but in their defence they are right about our record over the last 5 years. We haven't shown any consistent improvement in our use of the ball and the new players don't appear to be improving to a degree that would inspire confidence in the coaching behind the scenes.

Whereas you look at the teams around us:
Tipperarys use of the ball is consistently accurate and with a purpose to create goals. Goals goals goals.

Similarly, Limericks use of the ball is consistent in its purpose and is of exceptional quality because they are brilliantly coached and still have their individual moments of flair.

Wexford - can anyone here say that they are not performing greater than the sum of their parts. Whatever your opinion of Davy, and I'm far from a fan, his ability to coach a team is top drawer.

Then you look at us and what is our plan? Win your own battle is not a plan anymore. Its admirable and our players willingness to work plus their natural talent in some cases are the reasons we are still a formidable challenge for anyone. The management deserve credit for continually getting a team to work at that level but, if we were properly coached to a degree where we were a better team than the sum of our parts? Imagine how competitive we could be.

Continual changing of the squad is not going to achieve that. Coaching is.

Broader point in that regard, in light of the current isolation. Twitter pages such as Hurling365 in Wexford, coaching officers in Tipp like Barry Mullane, in Cork like Colm Crowley and other independent coaches like Colm McNally are consistently putting up videos of things juveniles could be doing at home to keep their eye in and just engaging with people on Twitter. Maybe I'm just not following the right people but I haven't seen a single video or anything else from Kilkenny GAA or any of our games development officers on what to do. And while I don't know all the coaches involved with the underage development squads, the ones I am aware of don't inspire confidence. I think as a county we have a severe deficit in quality coaching in comparison to other counties but that's just my opinion.

Wexford are going to see the fruits of Hurling 365 down the line. The appetite in Wexford from all age levels to get to the very top in hurling is ferocious.

I am not saying it isn’t in Kilkenny, but sometimes when you have a very successful period, the standards can drop off across the board.

Two big issues which I think are going to affect Kilkenny over the next 10 years.

1) The current status of our schools hurling.

If you like at our Secondary Schools in Kilkenny we have

Kierans and CBS in A competitions
Johnstown, Comer and Ferrybank in B competitions
Callan, Ballyhale, Mooncoin, Duiske, Grennan all in C/D competitions

I spoke with a teacher in one of the C schools recently who told me that barring Kierans and CBS in A and Ferrybank in B, every school in Kilkenny had dropped down a level at some stage over the last few years, he mentioned one school who recently went from A to B with one of the best Senior Squads they had ever had.. the reason they gave was "Kierans are too strong". I think that's a rubbish attitude and a rubbish excuse. Ask any young lad and they will want to hurl at the highest level they possibly can. Some of the teachers involved are simply looking to boost their own profile and ego by trying to win B (Which is by no means an easy feat might I add).

I'd break down our schools into two categories
1. Competing the best they can at the correct level (given number of hurlers, size of school etc)
2. Schools dropping down through the divisions to try and win

I do agree however, that we have a very very top heavy situation whereby we've dozens of excellent hurlers warming the benches in Kierans. Even CBS have been hit in recent years, more and more O Loughlins and Boro players are going to Kierans than would have gone a decade ago, ironically from a hurling point of view they'd probably be better off in the CBS. You cannot blame Kierans for this situation, they are not going to turn away students or hurlers, ultimately its up to the other schools to entice them in.

However, I would seriously question some of the coaching in Kierans recent years, given the players theyve had the last few years at senior level youd have to wonder how they didn't win all around them? If you go back through Kierans teams since 2014, how many senior hurlers have they produced for Kilkenny given theyve won 4/5 all Irelands in that time? 7 or 8 out of 80/90 players? No other school in Ireland can call on the same amount of ex county minors and 18/19 year olds with senior club experience as Kierans can year in year out.

The second issue I'd notice which relates to the first in some ways and is an issue within my own club is the amount of underage teams opting to play in B and C with teams that are strong enough to play at a higher grade, a lot of our clubs are for all intents and purposes hiding down in B at u13 and u15 when they should be striving to compete at A with extremely talented teams, last years u13A had 5 teams, B had 16 and C had 17. I understand the fear of a hammering is a very real one but the flip side of it is that by hiding down in a grade that your team is too good for you simply aren't improving your players, it creates a false sense throughout the club.

Codyout wrote: »

I am only putting the facts out there. You can hide from them . Not one person has tried to say what I said were not facts . This year alone we let go young blanchfield top performer under 20 , young Nolan sup for league no game time let go . Young sheflin . James Maher / struggling a bit that’s when a manager shows his worth . What’s the difference between Conor brown and Maher ( jersey ) in last year county final the village people even agree it was a very poor forward display still there 3 of them on county panel

How did you think Conor Browne did against limerick last year in the simi final
Or dose that not suit your argument. Im afraid evan is just to one paced for the really top level, will win lots with ballyhale but its a big step gerry kelly from borrisoleigh was brought into a tipp training last year and never felt the weight of the ball.all happening to quick for him.as far as i know Maher is happy enough to be gone of panel. Small bit of balance to all your facts all the lads you named would be panellist at best. Kilkenny if we do see a championship this year will be simi finalists and no one bar limerick will be looking forward to that.

Codyout wrote: »

I thought his performance in semi final as a defender great as attacker no good . He just not good enough hurler . Remember it took officials decision to get to all Ireland . His performance in all Ireland way out of his depth. In the last 2 championship Murphy of comer has got the better of him . County final his performance not up to it . If we are to go by how players have performed against Clare in league remember Evan Cody of the boro how he was treated .conor brown good athlete hurling very limited probably same category as Dermot Coady and I have yet to find some one that thinks he deserved to be on Kilkenny panel . Re your comment about semis final if that what you want to see Kilkenny hurling come to I rather loose I want to watch hurlers hurl the ball use there skills just like the shamrocks I think they called it puke football. I have no interest in watching puke hurling

For a man who is all “facts” you’re talking some rot, Browne was centre forward for the Village all championship, Larkin marked Murphy last year in the park. Secondly you reference Evan Cody again, what about the problems he had dealing with Anthony Owens this year (or do we only judge some players off club games?).

There has never been a Dermot Coady played for Kilkenny although I think I know a man from Myshall with the nameðŸ‘ðŸ»

Was thinking about this earlier and said I'd throw it up here to see what the masses think.

What would your Kilkenny Club Team of the Decade be? (With a heavy senior bias)

Goalkeeper

Goalie is a very hard position to pick and one of the primary reasons for this is that our inter county goalie for most of the last decade plays outfield with his club so a usual strong candidate is immediately gone. Looking at senior since 2010 a few of the guys that came to mind straight away were Holohan (had an excellent 17/18), Derek Brennan (consistently good shot stopper until he finished in '17), Colin McGrath who was a scorer and a stopper for Martins, Stephen Murphy who has been consistent for OLG throughout the decade. I'd actually give a very tight nod to Enda Cleere based on the huge role he played in the Bridge's back to back promotions, hes been very good at the senior grade too and I think they'll miss him when he's done.

Full back line

Again if you go through all the grades over a decade your going to throw up a serious amount of good hurlers and loads of lads who have had one or two good seasons. It's probably harder to pick out guys who were excellent or close to it over a long number of years. First man i'd pick at 2 is Paul Murphy I'd say most years for the past decade people having been picking Fort to go down and Paul, Richie, Paddy Hogan and Cathal O' Neill are big factors in them staying up. At no.3 I'd go for Joey Holden I'm probably being a bit harsh on guys like John Dalton and Aylward from Mullinavat who have serious hurling done at 3 but Joey has been excellent for a number of years now for Shamrocks. I'd go with Shane Prendergast at no.4, Shane was so good in the middle of the decade he got himself onto the Kilkenny team at 27 years of age and won an All Ireland medal starting corner back, that's no mean feat, won 2 county titles with Clara too.

Half Back Line

Loads of names jumping to mind here who have been very good over the decade, Jason Cleere and Enda Morrissey with the Bridge, Kieran Joyce with the Rower, Cathal O' Neill who I mentioned above for Danesfort, Jackie absolutely huge in 2011 for the Village, Mick Fennelly a colussus the last two years with Ballyhale, Darren Mullen the same, when push comes to shove though I'd go for Conor Delaney at no. 5, I genuinely think over the last 4 years youd struggle to find a better club defender than Delaney. At 6 I'd go with Cillian Buckley who has been a huge part in the Boro's rise over the last 10 years and at 7 I'd go with Paddy Deegan who again has been excellent with OLG for the last 4 or 5 years.

Midfield

The dinner is cooking so I may speed the process up here, again theres loads of guys who have had an excellent year here and excellent year there but if im looking for consistency I'd have to go with Lester Ryan as one midfielder, hes played everywhere for Clara and is still a serious operator at club level, second man I'd go with is Michael Rice, again I think hes been so instrumental for Carrickshock over the last decade, from the highs of county finals to the dogged relegation battles hes been a standout throughout.

Half Forward Line

Again there really is a mountain of players you could put in the forwards, I'm going to start with a player I mentioned earlier Richie Hogan, Danesfort would not be senior without him and that goes without any doubt in my opinion. At no.11 I'll go with TJ and I don't think any explanation is needed there again. The Half forward line is slightly disjointed but I'm going with Eoin Larkin, Larks was literally unplayable at the start of the decade, had a dip for a couple of years and the finished the decade strong again in a deeper role with the Village.

Full Forward Line

Loads of guys in with a shout here but the first man I'd put in has been quietly doing his business for the whole decade is Eoin Reid, his ability to consistently score is huge for Ballyhale, he is so underrated in my opinion and the amount he has won is unbelievable. I'd put Gorta at no.14, it beggars belief that he is still hurling at such a high level almost 10 years after he finished with Kilkenny, he genuinely still hurls like a young lad! The final player I'd put in at No. 15 is Colin Fennelly I'd love to know how many goals he has for Ballyhale in the last 10 years, I know the last few have been particularly fruitful but hes gone from a lightning fast inside forward to an unbelievable battering ram inside and I couldnt leave him out.


Again loads of brilliant players left out, feel free to throw a few names out there yereselves, mine is by no means flawless.

droppingball wrote: »

Also funny Savannah disappeared when codyout appeared

Still here just hiding in the long grass. Made my point did not feel the need to continue making it but have quite enjoyed the banter between Codyout and most of you. I do not agree that Cody is pro village to the exclusion of other clubs or that he should be replaced but he has to do more to correct the problems with our forwards and our forward play. I agree with Codyout we are stagnant, reachig an AI semi final is not an acceptable goal and there are many players out there who should have been given a decent chance not least being Tom Phelan. After Reid, Fennelly, Donnelly, and possibly Ryan we have nothing

savannahkat wrote: »

Murphy
Mullen Lawlor Wallace
Delaney Walsh Deegan
Fogarty Leahy
Reid Donnelly AAAAAAA
Ryan Fennelly BBBBBBB

Unless we find A&B we are going no where and please do not say Ritchie Hogan. A great player in his day but his day is long gone mostly due to injury. The rest of our current forwards should be charged with impersonation

Still think joey will be in the corner and you could see Mullen midfield possibly
With p walsh .leahy to a wing and find b possible try young cody